Sea Dream website

[CDreamer]

Thanks for the update. We remain hopeful. I wonder if they are planning one of these events out here in the Wild West?:eek::D Sure would like an invite. I promise to behave.:D:D

 

Jim, I don't think so. They are too afraid of you!! :eek::D

 

Actually, I learned that one had already been held in Los Angeles (first I had heard of this even though I live within driving range of L.A.), then they went on to N.Y., followed by the one we attended in S.C. So it was my understanding that they are done with the West Coast sweep - at least for this year.

 

I will say that, like Vandrefalk, we did feel our concerns were honestly listened to and not just swept under the rug with pat answers or denials. The conversation with Ms. Conover was open, relaxed, and really quite pleasant. As Vandrefalk says, changes may not happen overnight and may not end up pleasing everyone but they are aware of our concerns and appear to be taking them quite seriously. So, we shall see!

[whatnot]

Thanks Vandrefalk for a very concise report of the very nice cocktail party and presentation by Ms Conover that we attended in SC. I was very impressed with her and frankly surprised at how open and candid she was with the 3 of us when we discussed concerns with her. We did not get corporate speak! I agree with Vandrefalk and CDreamer that some changes will be made. Again they may not please everyone. But that rarely happens anyway! It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few months!

 

And as far as the Cocktail Parties go, they were targeting areas that had had a large number of Sea Dream guests within a very concentrated area. They told us they had done all they had planned for this year but might do more next year.

[Jim Avery]

Thanks Vandrefalk for a very concise report of the very nice cocktail party and presentation by Ms Conover that we attended in SC. I was very impressed with her and frankly surprised at how open and candid she was with the 3 of us when we discussed concerns with her. We did not get corporate speak! I agree with Vandrefalk and CDreamer that some changes will be made. Again they may not please everyone. But that rarely happens anyway! It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few months!

 

And as far as the Cocktail Parties go, they were targeting areas that had had a large number of Sea Dream guests within a very concentrated area. They told us they had done all they had planned for this year but might do more next year.

 

Thanks for the update. What is Ms. Conover's take on children on board?

[commodoredave]

The fact they did not serve milk and cookies at these gatherings may be a good sign. :confused:

[vandrefalk]

Definitely no milk and cookies!!

 

Jim, Ms. Conover didn't share her personal opinion, so I really can't address that. She certainly understood the problems they can cause, but it seems to me that the real problem isn't specifically children -- since we've all seen some very well behaved ones -- it's unruly guests, be they children or adults. Obnoxious adults can ruin the cruise just as fast as brats and therein lies the issue. Kids don't really belong on SD -- especially with parents who don't supervise them. But adults who climb on the piano, go topless on deck, take over the TOY or are otherwise uncivilized are equally unwelcome, in my opinion.

 

Vandrefalk

[Jim Avery]

Definitely no milk and cookies!!

 

Jim, Ms. Conover didn't share her personal opinion, so I really can't address that. She certainly understood the problems they can cause, but it seems to me that the real problem isn't specifically children -- since we've all seen some very well behaved ones -- it's unruly guests, be they children or adults. Obnoxious adults can ruin the cruise just as fast as brats and therein lies the issue. Kids don't really belong on SD -- especially with parents who don't supervise them. But adults who climb on the piano, go topless on deck, take over the TOY or are otherwise uncivilized are equally unwelcome, in my opinion.

 

Vandrefalk

 

Agreed but twice we have seen them put disruptive adults ashore. Disruptive kids just continue to be disruptive. In our experience, we have had much more negative impact from kids than adults. The only reason we are going on the Costa Rica voyage is, well, Costa Rica. Any issues on this one and we will never darken SeaDream's door again. Too many nice options out there to be aggravated at great expense.

[commodoredave]

Definitely no milk and cookies!!

 

Jim, Ms. Conover didn't share her personal opinion, so I really can't address that. She certainly understood the problems they can cause, but it seems to me that the real problem isn't specifically children -- since we've all seen some very well behaved ones -- it's unruly guests, be they children or adults. Obnoxious adults can ruin the cruise just as fast as brats and therein lies the issue. Kids don't really belong on SD -- especially with parents who don't supervise them. But adults who climb on the piano, go topless on deck, take over the TOY or are otherwise uncivilized are equally unwelcome, in my opinion.

 

Vandrefalk

 

I can live with the topless, especially if the perps are under 50 years old. :D

[Jim Avery]

I can live with the topless, especially if the perps are under 50 years old. :D

 

Why have I had all the kids and family groups and some other yahoo gets the topless babes???:eek::D:D

[frequent traveler]

Why have I had all the kids and family groups and some other yahoo gets the topless babes???:eek::D:D

 

Our 5 day cruise a few years ago from Dec 12 -17 was one of those. Maybe only one well behaved kid but a rowdy bunch of adults. Several women went topless poolside before the HOT MAN intervened. There was a bit of grumbling but tops remained on for the duration.

[Jim Avery]

Our 5 day cruise a few years ago from Dec 12 -17 was one of those. Maybe only one well behaved kid but a rowdy bunch of adults. Several women went topless poolside before the HOT MAN intervened. There was a bit of grumbling but tops remained on for the duration.

 

Unless they were 25 year old supermodels, I would probably be glad they were covered too. Bad enough you have to look at us old guys topless.:eek: Wow, talk about thread drift.:D:D This is what happens while waiting for Andreas. (Waiting for Andreas, wasn't that a movie??)

Edited October 31, 2013 by Jim Avery

[zqvol]

Our 5 day cruise a few years ago from Dec 12 -17 was one of those. Maybe only one well behaved kid but a rowdy bunch of adults. Several women went topless poolside before the HOT MAN intervened. There was a bit of grumbling but tops remained on for the duration.

 

 

How did I miss that?:mad: I do remember an incident in the bar one night.

Edited November 1, 2013 by zqvol

[frequent traveler]

How did I miss that?:mad: I do remember an incident in the bar one night.

 

Different cruise- you witnessed the lovely young Norwegian who decided to dance and remove her clothes along the way. That was the cruise where a bartender was usually up until 3 for that group. You did hear about the topless sunbathing at the time. It was the yacht sales people (not the SD sales team on board- that was another cruise) but the NY folks who sold yachts for a living.

[Clay&Jenn]

Jenn & I have been loyal Regent cruisers for years, but decided to try Seadream for our anniversary last year. The main reason we decided on Seadream was to be with other adult couples--that is just what we got; we had the best vacation in our life! We were about to become loyal Seadreamers until we heard about the "unsavory incidents" with children; we have decided to stay with Regent (who have a program for children) until we KNOW what we will be getting with Seadream. I am very appreciative for those on this board who express their concerns in a direct, but also a well spoken graceful manner. You ladies and gentlemen, and the great staff on the ships, are why we WILL cruise Seadream again (probably frequently) IF this issue is resolved. To me it is a simple matter to communicate on a timely basis what type of cruise is being offered. I too am glad that management is paying attention, and will hopefully take a stand one way or the other. That being said, I am reminded of what my grandfather used to say: "if you straddle the fence too much, or too long, you can get a splinter...":)

[Jim Avery]

Different cruise- you witnessed the lovely young Norwegian who decided to dance and remove her clothes along the way. That was the cruise where a bartender was usually up until 3 for that group. You did hear about the topless sunbathing at the time. It was the yacht sales people (not the SD sales team on board- that was another cruise) but the NY folks who sold yachts for a living.

 

You really have to watch out for those boat people.:eek::D

[fpebbles]

I’ve been hesitant to don my flame retardant suit and venture in, but I’m concerned when I see folks who’ve only had one cruise say “never again…” For better or worse we few who post on this little corner of cruisecritic represent SeaDream to the rest of the cruisecritic world.

 

Of course if I had some little rug rat jumping on me in the pool I’d be of a certain opinion, but in ~10 cruises we’ve not had those experiences.

 

This is how I see it, and of course, each person’s mileage (in this case in knots) may vary.

1) Some folks are card-carrying members of “No Kidding,” or the like and want a no one under 10/15/18/21/30 policy.

2) Some have had bad experiences. To me, these aren’t bad kid experiences; these are bad parenting experiences. Which leaves open what should be done. Clearly needs to be managed. Very tough, as we have discussed how difficult it is to manage passengers—try telling them they’re bad parents, too.

3) Have to disagree wholeheartedly that SeaDream is no place for children. My children LOVE SeaDream. If your children are travelers and enjoy dining in places like the French Laundry, they may enjoy SeaDream. My younger son likes to work on his novel; my older son likes to bike on shore and relax on board. We enjoy spending time together.

 

We look forward to sailing soon. This time without kids, as silly school is getting in the way. We’ll try not to talk about them endlessly—that is, if anybody is even talking to us…

[Jim Avery]

I’ve been hesitant to don my flame retardant suit and venture in, but I’m concerned when I see folks who’ve only had one cruise say “never again…” For better or worse we few who post on this little corner of cruisecritic represent SeaDream to the rest of the cruisecritic world.

 

Of course if I had some little rug rat jumping on me in the pool I’d be of a certain opinion, but in ~10 cruises we’ve not had those experiences.

 

This is how I see it, and of course, each person’s mileage (in this case in knots) may vary.

1) Some folks are card-carrying members of “No Kidding,” or the like and want a no one under 10/15/18/21/30 policy.

2) Some have had bad experiences. To me, these aren’t bad kid experiences; these are bad parenting experiences. Which leaves open what should be done. Clearly needs to be managed. Very tough, as we have discussed how difficult it is to manage passengers—try telling them they’re bad parents, too.

3) Have to disagree wholeheartedly that SeaDream is no place for children. My children LOVE SeaDream. If your children are travelers and enjoy dining in places like the French Laundry, they may enjoy SeaDream. My younger son likes to work on his novel; my older son likes to bike on shore and relax on board. We enjoy spending time together.

 

We look forward to sailing soon. This time without kids, as silly school is getting in the way. We’ll try not to talk about them endlessly—that is, if anybody is even talking to us…

 

Hi Fpebbles. You do not need your fire suit, no flaming here. After all, you are all entitled to my opinion.:eek: Seriously though, you have been very lucky. Exactly half of our SD voyages have been near perfect, the other half full of kids and large groups. We are getting tired of the expensive roll of the dice. BTW, how old are your kids. They sound more mature. We just returned from a Princess cruise. Lots of kids but not a single issue as there are lots for them to do beside invade adult spaces. They were good about keeping the bars kid free and there were adult only spaces including pools. This is not possible on SeaDream. That is entirely the issue. Not hating kids here, just not wanting to be forced to share an expensive holiday with stranger's kids. Is that so unreasonable? Look at the physical ship. Unless one keeps their kid at their side and silent, they will inevitably take over spaces formerly marketed to adults. Believe me, we love our kids but I can guarantee no one else loves your kids like you do. It is rather uncaring of your fellow passengers to expect them to move over or vacate a space so kids can play as they need to do. We are excited for our Costa Rica trip and are hoping for the best as far as children on board. Now, for the future. Barring a policy that we can live with, I do believe we have found a viable alternative with suites and the extra perks that come with them on larger ships. We have booked a suite on Pacific Princess for Alaska that has a 258 sq ft veranda (SeaDream cabins are 190 Sq ft) and the suite is 665 sq ft. The full passenger load is 680 so not so big a ship. As Frequent Traveler mentioned, we also would love to have SeaDream return to being our go to holiday line but that depends on them. We shall see.

[Clay&Jenn]

No flames here. I love kids. We simply are seeking a wonderful romantic vacation with other adults and no children, and that is exactly what we experienced on our Seadream cruise. If that is available, we will cruise Seadream again, if not, we will seek it elsewhere--not a big deal. It is up the the cruise companies to target their market, it is up to us to identify the product being offered, and decide if we want to participate.;):)

[JES4845]

Glad a variety of viewpoints are being offered such as the last posting but I must respectfully and firmly disagree.

 

1. We aren't first timers but have completed nine voyages including several with children that behaved but also several including our last one ruined by children.

 

2. It doesn't matter whether the problem is the kids, the parents or a combination, the problem is the problem when people bring kids who misbehave and undermine if not ruin the vacation of others.

 

3. Feeling this way about kids on SD is not just our opinion or an unreasonable desire. When we first started on SD in 2008 the marketing said 56 couples. It now says so again. Is it too much to ask that other travelers respect that marketing and that SD uphold what it promises?

 

4. The French Laundry? I'm almost speechless. What will kids have to look forward to and earn as adults if they sample the finer things now? Is no place a kids free zone? Besides, it is one thing to bring kids on a multi-hour dinner during which other diners don't have to interact with the kids or their parents. It is an entirely different matter when it is in close quarters over many days or even two full weeks as happened to us in the Black Sea this past August with kids running in the hallways, yelling, disrupting others at the pool, and jumping on furniture in the main salon. I doubt even The French Laundry would remain in business under such circumstances. Clearly SeaDream realizes the risks it faces from this situation given the recent postings from Andreas Brynestad and feedback others have given the CEO at recent marketing receptions. If they want to market to those with kids they should say so but I think they know it isn't sustainable given how the majority of adults feel.

[frequent traveler]

I have always loved this board because there is no flaming or snarkiness. When I go to a couple of others the nastiness makes me hope I never encounter these posters on a voyage.

 

But I don't understand why SD has gone back to "56 couples" unless it plans to ban children. Talk about misleading marketing. That makes it worse not better if the little hellions disrupt your vacation. We've gone from spending 21 days on SD in 8 months to none in 18 months since we take many trips during school holidays. Until SD is willing to throw off both the hellions and their failing parents at a minimum we won't throw the dice again. While we would like to see some changes for the better, we don't have high expectations- and we miss the crew and on board staff terribly. Facebook and emails are nice but not enough. I want them all back!

 

FT

Edited November 4, 2013 by frequent traveler

[commodoredave]

We are looking forward to our first cruise with SD but sincerely hope it is an adults-only experience. We have lots of cruise lines and ships to choose from that have much more room and much better facilities for kids than SD. We chose SD because they market themselves as a "couples" cruise line.

[Jim Avery]

While we are awaiting word from the top, I have been thinking about other choices SeaDream will need to make in the near future. In addition to formulating a policy of some sort concerning children which will affect bookings one way or the other, SeaDream is facing an inevitable change. SeaDream I is approaching its 30th "birthday" with SD II one year behind. To put that in perspective, Queen Elizabeth 2 (QE2) was the longest serving Cunard ship in their almost 200 year history and was retired just short of 40. Ship expenditures for repair and maintenance go up exponentially as ships age. SeaDream I & II were well built originally and have been well maintained but so was QE2. Sure there are some 50 year old rust buckets in third world countries but unless SeaDream intends to buck historical trends, they will need to consider building/buying replacement tonnage in the near future. Given lead times decision time will probably need to be sooner rather than later. Inevitably they will go larger. All ship lines seem to and that is also a historical trend. Seabourn has some griping about slippage of food and service quality in its newer 450 passenger ships as compared to the old 220 passenger ships. If SeaDream replaces the present ships with 200 or 300 passenger ships will they keep the passenger/crew ratio like it is? Precedent says no. Inevitably it will be a different product than what we currently enjoy. I guess we should be glad we have had the opportunity to experience SeaDream as originally envisioned. Now if we can just get a clear policy on kids.:eek::eek:

[gcmv]

We chose SD because they market themselves as a "couples" cruise line.

 

Great news for me as a golfer - I thought, that Freddie still plays on the "Champions Tour" - is he going to be the golf pro on SD I or SD II ?:D

 

Sorry for my "unqualified" comment ... ;)

[piratelooksat45]

Fpebbles, I had the luck to sail with you and your boys in 2012. It's one of the reasons I didn't join in on the "no kids on Seadream" movement. They were a delight. Yes they are much more mannered than most children, but they are also much more mannered than most adults I've sailed with. I still talk about your youngest escorting an elderly woman to dinner every night...it made my cruise, the sweetest thing I've ever seen.

 

My take is Seadream needs to either:

1. Let Fpebbles kids sail with all the "No Kids on Seadream" folks -- they will win them over ;)

2. Limit the number of children for each voyage and have rules which are enforced to keep them from getting out of hand.

3. Inform the parents before sailing of the lack of activities for children and what will be expected of the parents and children.

[vandrefalk]

Glad you posted, Pirate! While I have not met FPepples children, I know others who have -- and the universal consensus is that they are delightful. I'm sure eating at The French Laundry is not going to ruin their lives :) and I would be happy to sail with them anytime.

 

Again, I don't think SD markets to child-friendly markets, but I do think they market to groups/cultures where multi-generation travel is common. There you do run the real risk of large groups with children, who may not be well-behaved. I think SD does reiterate that there are no facilities/programs for children, but they are not going to refuse a booking on that basis. I truly believe the key is enforcement. If anyone behaves in such a way to endanger, annoy, inconvenience (words from the actual yacht contract) other guests, appropriate action must be taken.

 

Vandrefalk

[Jim Avery]

Why not have some cruises dedicated as adults only?