Bait and Switch?

[nana541]

Have you had any further contact with Chris Elliott.... His various reports are read my "thousands if not 10's of thousand " because he writes for so many news papers, magazines and blogs.

That kind of publicity would not be good for the Cruiseline, an attorney would simply (IMO) be throwing money away, with only the attorney getting any money.

 

Let Chris shame them in print, you are owed a Cash refund and not a credit that you can not use!

 

 

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[athe0007]

Have you had any further contact with Chris Elliott....

 

Mr. Elliott and his group have been very helpful. Actually, almost all of what they have told and advised me is available in written documentation on his website (http://www.elliott.org), but the human contact has give me confidence to proceed. However, as with a lawyer you have to go though the preliminaries before he can take up your case. How would it look if he wrote a story and then the cruise line responded, "But the customer never contacted us!" Or, the CEO says, "Well, I was never notified about this problem." As Mr. Elliott advises in writing, if you give them a chance 99% of issues can be resolved. I'd rather not be in the 1% that don't, I don't need the aggravation. I'm optimistic that resolution is imminent. Also, just as I want them to be honorable, I also want a fair resolution. Although I think that the very best of companies would just provide a full refund or comp the same cruise over again, I think that's beyond the call of duty, even though relatively it's probably worth the money in good publicity. It always surprises me that corporations spend millions of dollars in advertising to establish good brand recognition and then weasel over an extremely minor compensation.

 

PS: Interestingly, my local paper carries Mr. Elliott column, but I was never aware. I don't travel that much. I also subscribe to National Geographic's Traveler Magazine, but I just look at the pictures. :o

[boulders]

Mr. Elliott and his group have been very helpful. Actually, almost all of what they have told and advised me is available in written documentation on his website (http://www.elliott.org), but the human contact has give me confidence to proceed. However, as with a lawyer you have to go though the preliminaries before he can take up your case. How would it look if he wrote a story and then the cruise line responded, "But the customer never contacted us!" Or, the CEO says, "Well, I was never notified about this problem." As Mr. Elliott advises in writing, if you give them a chance 99% of issues can be resolved. I'd rather not be in the 1% that don't, I don't need the aggravation. I'm optimistic that resolution is imminent. Also, just as I want them to be honorable, I also want a fair resolution. Although I think that the very best of companies would just provide a full refund or comp the same cruise over again, I think that's beyond the call of duty, even though relatively it's probably worth the money in good publicity. It always surprises me that corporations spend millions of dollars in advertising to establish good brand recognition and then weasel over an extremely minor compensation.

 

PS: Interestingly, my local paper carries Mr. Elliott column, but I was never aware. I don't travel that much. I also subscribe to National Geographic's Traveler Magazine, but I just look at the pictures. :o

 

But you have contacted them! This should have been resolved when you first brought it to their attention.

 

Your story is very disheartening and has solidified my resolve never to take a NCL cruise. Many of us on Cruise Critic pore over the deck plans, stateroom plans and pictures while we are deciding what cruise to take. We analyze the real estate, compare it to the price and make a decision on whether or not to proceed. Then we keep monitoring for price drops in that category and other categories to see if we can get a better deal.

 

The stateroom you were put in was substantially different than the one NCLA advertised. I agree that it was bait and switch, but I'm not a lawyer.

 

Would you have booked this cruise in that size of stateroom that you ended up in? What would it have been worth to you? Would you have taken that cruise at all? I do think that you should stand firm and that NCLA should give you a substantial cash refund, not an offer of credit for another cruise.

Edited January 30, 2014 by boulders

[nana541]

Exactly, you have contacted them several times and they have made offers, unacceptable offers but they certainly know about your case.

 

You do Not need a "credit" for a cruise you can not afford to take. They need to pay you Cash based on the cabin you got vs what you paid for!

 

This has dragged on long enough which is why someone like Chris Elliott needs to intervene.

 

Good luck to you!

 

 

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[athe0007]

You do Not need a "credit" for a cruise you can not afford to take. They need to pay you Cash based on the cabin you got vs what you paid for!

 

It turns out that there may be a way to get almost all of my money back! If you drill deep enough sometimes a solution presents itself. If things work out I'll let you know. It will probably take some time though and I want to give NCL one more chance.

[commodoredave]

Glad to hear this may be resolved appropriately. But why is it that major multi-national cruise lines like NCL take so long and make it so hard to get a fair and reasonable outcome? Do they not care about their brand and reputation? Is NCL purposely trying to send customers to other cruise lines?

[athe0007]

Glad to hear this may be resolved appropriately. But why is it that major multi-national cruise lines like NCL take so long and make it so hard to get a fair and reasonable outcome? Do they not care about their brand and reputation? Is NCL purposely trying to send customers to other cruise lines?

 

I think (and hope) that it's a minor mid-level management problem. We've all been caught in a mistake sometimes in our lives. It's pretty natural to start spinning, without the experience of knowing that tangled webs rarely deceive. Even really smart people like Bill Clinton get caught in them (Mia Copa! Mia Copa!). If this is an upper management problem, God help them, because a house of cards will eventually collapse. In this case they've covered themselves very carefully for civil liability, unfortunately fraud is criminal. There's a phenomenon in social psychology called "group think," when a culture of compliance fails to reality check bad decisions. The classic example is the Bay of Pigs (very aptly named). Do the right thing and move on! Stonewalling is a losing strategy. You just have to find somebody to take the fall (temporally). This management consulting advice alone is worth $10,000. ;) Of course people rarely listen to me.

[athe0007]

"At some point, though, at some level, what really matters about a man is how he treats people who hold no leverage over him, let alone how he treats those people in moments of tumult when it would be quite understandable if he just ignored the request."

 

Peyton Manning leaves crushing Super Bowl loss with reputation intact

 

A class act. It's about life, not just football.

[seguincruiser]

OP I don't know if they will let you book Oct 2015, but you could take a cruise during that week that the kids are off for Thursday and Friday (MDA ?) and get a 2 bedroom Haven on the Getaway for 6400 going to the Eastern Caribbean. I know you still would have to come up with airfare but it does give you lots of time to check sales.

[athe0007]

OP I don't know if they will let you book Oct 2015, but you could take a cruise during that week that the kids are off for Thursday and Friday (MDA ?) and get a 2 bedroom Haven on the Getaway for 6400 going to the Eastern Caribbean. I know you still would have to come up with airfare but it does give you lots of time to check sales.

 

Thanks for your suggestion. It's kind of an issue of good money chasing bad. :eek: I know we can find a cruise to use the credit on, but taking another cruise within a year would compound our debt.

 

As things stand now I'm just waiting to hear from Norwegian whether they can give us an extension on the credit they've given us. I think that's a pretty reasonable request, don't you? Even the Future Cruise Deposits you make while still on board are good for 4 years! This seems like a very minor alteration in the red tape and would, after all my efforts, leave me feeling that NCL had made a reasonable and personable attempt to compensate us.

[commodoredave]

There are some good folks in upper management at NCL. If the people below them ever let your issue reach their desk, this would be resolved in a minute. Mr. Stuart, Mr. Sheehan -- where are you???

[Sandy Sails]

"At some point, though, at some level, what really matters about a man is how he treats people who hold no leverage over him, let alone how he treats those people in moments of tumult when it would be quite understandable if he just ignored the request."

 

Peyton Manning leaves crushing Super Bowl loss with reputation intact

 

A class act. It's about life, not just football.

 

You are so right, Peyton Manning is a class act, all the way! Even after the pounding we gave him in the Super Bowl, he still had the class to ask our Richard Sherman if he was ok, after his 4th qtr injury. Class all the way. I've always loved Peyton - but had to root against him for obvious reasons, lol.

[athe0007]

There are some good folks in upper management at NCL. If the people below them ever let your issue reach their desk, this would be resolved in a minute. Mr. Stuart, Mr. Sheehan -- where are you???

 

Well, this is currently sitting in Mr. Stuart's Inbox (if it's not filtered by an assistant) and next week will be in Mr. Sheehan's (hopefully he reads his own email). At this point I'm asking for such a small thing I'll be surprised if they can't see their way to accommodate me. But then again, I would have never believed it if you'd told me in advance that they would "forget" to mention that my two-bedroom, two-bath suite had morphed into a single room suite. I maybe getting old but I can still count to 2. ;)

[commodoredave]

Well, this is currently sitting in Mr. Stuart's Inbox (if it's not filtered by an assistant) and next week will be in Mr. Sheehan's (hopefully he reads his own email). At this point I'm asking for such a small thing I'll be surprised if they can't see their way to accommodate me. But then again, I would have never believed it if you'd told me in advance that they would "forget" to mention that my two-bedroom, two-bath suite had morphed into a single room suite. I maybe getting old but I can still count to 2. ;)

 

I am confident those two will do the right thing. If not, you have a lot of supporters on this thread who will help take up your cause, me included.

[athe0007]

I am confident those two will do the right thing. If not, you have a lot of supporters on this thread who will help take up your cause, me included.

 

Wow Dave, that's very nice of you! I hope all will work out without any additional efforts. :)

[athe0007]

So I wanted to let everyone know that I decided to accept their $4500 credit ...for several reasons. Most importantly someone from Chris Elliot's group advised me that it was quite a bit above the industry standard. Secondly, I've been really angry about this from the moment I walked into the cabin. If I take this all the way to the top and get shutdown I'm going to be even more angry, so I'm just going to let it go. I have to keep reminding myself that I'm no longer an L.A. street kid and don't need to respond to every personal slight. NCL has pretty much given me my due, although I don't think they've ever given me any respect or any reason to respect them, but that's pretty much how corporations work these days.

 

A short aside. I had a Chinese friend who was in a powerful position to award a contract worth hundreds of millions of dollars. He was very happy with the American product, but asked, as a matter of courtesy, for a minor concession on the price, which the American sales team refused to do (not understanding Chinese culture) so the purchaser went with the French offer. Sometimes a small gesture builds strong relationships (old Chinese proverb).

 

Another reason that I decided to accept was because I was able to find an NCL Eastern Mediterranean cruise in December for a reasonable price and with very careful research and a little manipulation I was able to get four airline tickets for the miles in mine and my wife's FF accounts (it would have been almost as many miles to the Caribbean and almost double to Hawaii). That made it affordable, although it's not my idea of a "fun" vacation (which usually means going some place warm far away from the Minnesota winter). This is essentially going to be an educational trip for the kids that we'd planned to do in a few years when they were older, but a cruise in hand is worth two in the bush.

 

One of the most upsetting things is that we did have a wonderful time on the POA. I can't imagine visiting Hawaii in any other way, but unfortunately, as much as I'd like to, I cannot personally recommend it given our personal experience. I hope to be able to come back here next year and tell you what a wonderful time we had on the NCL Jade. Also, so that people won't get the wrong impression (someone mentioned my health), although I am a cancer survivor and my odds are much worse than yours, I'm currently healthy and strong (knock on wood).

 

Finally, I want to thank everyone here for their ideas, advice, information, and suggestions. You guys have been great. I'd also like to give special thanks to Grant Ritchie of Mr. Elloitt's group for holding my hand through all this. Thanks Grant!

 

Best,

 

Michael

[commodoredave]

Delighted to hear that you have accepted their last offer, although I do believe you were treated with less than full respect and honor. I have not cruised with NCL in some time, and based on how their management have handled your case, I will not be sailing with them again any time soon.

Best wishes for a wonderful family cruise.

Edited February 10, 2014 by commodoredave

[VegasCrossfire]

I hope you do have a wonderful time. Thank you so much for coming back here to let us know the final resolution. Please come back to this thread to let us know about the next cruise - even if it is to link it to your review/comments on the cruise.

 

Have a wonderful time - and hopefully you won't be disappointed.

[slidergirl]

If you need any help with plans for your cruise, PLEASE visit the Europe ports of call forums. A bunch of us over there would love to help to be sure you make the most of this cruise.

It's not a bad thing to cruise the Med in December - all the hordes of tourists will be gone.

[athe0007]

If you need any help with plans for your cruise, PLEASE visit the Europe ports of call forums. A bunch of us over there would love to help to be sure you make the most of this cruise.

It's not a bad thing to cruise the Med in December - all the hordes of tourists will be gone.

 

Thanks, I'll do that! I do need more good advice. Although I've spent time in the Middle East, my only visit to Europe was a three hour layover in Paris. :rolleyes: Not even time to see the "Sunrise."

 

Looking at the Athens excursions they all warn about the crowds! I looked at the temps and they normally range from the 40s to the 60s during December. That'd be pleasant compared to the winter we're currently having here. Right at this moment the high is 6 F. :( I was skiing the other day when it was -12 F. Normally I look for twenties and sunny, but lately I've just been settling for anything in the teens.

 

I'll be over in a while. Thanks.

Edited February 10, 2014 by athe0007

[athe0007]

If you need any help with plans for your cruise, PLEASE visit the Europe ports of call forums. A bunch of us over there would love to help to be sure you make the most of this cruise.

It's not a bad thing to cruise the Med in December - all the hordes of tourists will be gone.

 

Hi Slidergirl, Where should I post? It's looks like the European Ports of call are divided by country and there doesn't seem to be a general one? Thanks.

[slidergirl]

Hi Slidergirl, Where should I post? It's looks like the European Ports of call are divided by country and there doesn't seem to be a general one? Thanks.

 

Yep, it's divided. You'll have to post for each country.

It's much more pleasant to visit someplace when it's 40F than 90F!!!!

I'm not as brave as you go to out skiing when it's that cold. I DO have to take my dog for a walk everyday, so I do end up out there in those nasty temps. I've seen days when we will look at the thermometer and cheer it on to get to 0F...

[Katgoesonholiday]

Super interesting thread!

 

I looked at the NCL Mediterranean cruise for July this year but was put off by the many negative reviews about customer service. We are coming all the way from NZ and spending a fortune to do so - I don't want to risk having a terrible experience! I really hope that you have a wonderful time and can put this difficult time behind you. I look forward to hearing how it went - we are thinking of taking our three boys on a Mediterranean cruise in 2016 since we are leaving them behind this time (15th wedding anniversary cruise).

[athe0007]

Super interesting thread!

 

I looked at the NCL Mediterranean cruise for July this year but was put off by the many negative reviews about customer service. We are coming all the way from NZ and spending a fortune to do so - I don't want to risk having a terrible experience! I really hope that you have a wonderful time and can put this difficult time behind you. I look forward to hearing how it went - we are thinking of taking our three boys on a Mediterranean cruise in 2016 since we are leaving them behind this time (15th wedding anniversary cruise).

 

We actually had a wonderful time. I'm the one who was upset because I spend months planning vacations done to the last detail and I took being tricked very seriously and because initially their response was really weak. We were once in Yellowstone and the Old Faithful Inn misplaced our luggage. To apologize they upgraded us to a beautiful one bedroom suite overlooking the Old Faithful Geyser, one of the nicest rooms I've ever been in.

 

I haven't reviewed the POA cruise, but it was an amazing experience. The side of the ship we were on had incredible views in three out of four ports, million dollar views. Other than the crew's silence about the cabin change, the service was top rate. The only other things I could complain about was that we sometimes had to send the drinks back, because they seemed to have forgotten the alcohol ;) and although the food was good it wasn't gourmet even in the specialty restaurants.

 

I think the cabin thing was just a glitch, but it was their response to it that pissed me off. There were a lot of things they could have done differently to compensate us. However, the itinerary is so special I won't want someone to miss it because of our personal bad luck.

Edited February 17, 2014 by athe0007

[aimathy]

I'm happy to hear that you are pleased with the end result and you'll be in the Mediterranean soon. Reading this string of posts was like reading a novella! I couldn't wait to find out what happened! :)

 

I had a problem with NCL on my first and last cruise with them, and even though mine was tiny in comparison to your issue, the way they seem to handle problems is very "too bad, so sad". Their customer service is awful and I won't be sailing with them again. Reading your post was a big reminder of how powerless the little guy can be when faced with big problems. They should realize how many "little guys" they're losing by handling problems so poorly.

 

I hope you enjoy your cruise!!! :)