Bait and Switch?

[Angela61280]

Not being an attorney and I'm sure the Cruiseline has hundreds, however, somewhere in the statutes I believe you will find something about "issues known or SHOULD have been known".

I believe that the "arrogance" of this situation is amazing, this was not a simple error.... This was a known issue and still the Cruiseline did not correct their website but continued to advertise and sell that cabin as a 2 bedroom suite to unsuspecting passengers long after the "refit" and the ship returning to service.

A corporation needs to be held accountable even if "the right hand doesn't care what the left hand does".

 

This was a known issue and if not out and out fraud then what was it and who should carry the responsibility for the loss suffered by the OP??

 

So if you had paid for a 2 bedroom suite and ended up with a regular single cabin what would you call it?

 

Maybe I'll just call it "theft by deception" yep I'll stick with that definition.

 

Just my two cents....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

I think what your talking about is Fraud in the Inducement... (1) misrepresentation of a material fact; (2) the maker of the misrepresentation knew or should have known of the statement's falsities; (3) intent by the maker of the statement that the representation induce another to rely and act on it; and (4) resulting injury to the party acting in justifiable reliance on the representation.

[athe0007]

[Opps, sorry for the duplicate! I posted this in the wrong place and I can't figure out how to delete it!]

 

Hello all,

 

So I thought I should update you all about how this worked out. So as I said, Norwegian offered us a $4500 on another cruise to be used within one year, which we accepted. Because we were cash poor after Hawaii, I searched carefully for a good deal. I found an off-season 10 day Eastern Mediterranean on the Jade that we could take for little more than the credit and I found fights we could use with miles. Once again, I booked a two bedroom cabin and this time we were really pleased. The cabin and the itinerary were incredibly nice. The service was good and the food was better than the POA. I would recommend this December cruise because many people who'd traveled to these destinations before mentioned how amazingly uncrowded they were. We also were lucky to have good, sometimes great, weather the whole trip (at least great weather for Minnesotans ;) ).

 

So overall, I think Norwegian made up for their error and we thank them for the generous compensation. Morally though, I have to warn other cruisers that they still seem to have the same inaccurate floor plan up for the two bedroom cabin on the POA. I would suggest double checking to be sure you get what you are expecting. The floor plan for the Jade was exactly the same as what we walked into and it was an amazingly elegant cabin.

 

One additional comment/question: the only thing I was unhappy about on our most recent cruise was that they seem to try and squeeze you for every dollar they can, often with charges that are not completely obvious. I understand that this is kind of the industry standard these days, much the same as the resort fees that many hotels charge you, however I'd rather be able to pay everything upfront so I don't have to be stressed about having to read the fine print all the time to avoid overspending. Is there a cruise line that does this? Maybe it's just a matter of becoming more experienced?

 

Thank you for all the information and support I received here. It would never have happened without you.

Edited December 29, 2014 by athe0007

[athe0007]

Hello all,

 

So I thought I should update you all about how this worked out. So as I said, Norwegian offered us a $4500 on another cruise to be used within one year, which we accepted. Because we were cash poor after Hawaii, I searched carefully for a good deal. I found an off-season 10 day Eastern Mediterranean on the Jade that we could take for little more than the credit and I found fights we could use with miles. Once again, I booked a two bedroom cabin and this time we were really pleased. The cabin and the itinerary were incredibly nice. The service was good and the food was better than the POA. I would recommend this December cruise because many people who'd traveled to these destinations before mentioned how amazingly uncrowded they were. We also were lucky to have good, sometimes great, weather the whole trip (at least great weather for Minnesotans ;) ).

 

So overall, I think Norwegian made up for their error and we thank them for the generous compensation. Morally though, I have to warn other cruisers that they still seem to have the same inaccurate floor plan up for the two bedroom cabin on the POA. I would suggest double checking to be sure you get what you are expecting. The floor plan for the Jade was exactly the same as what we walked into and it was an amazingly elegant cabin.

 

One additional comment/question: the only thing I was unhappy about on our most recent cruise was that they seem to try and squeeze you for every dollar they can, often with charges that are not completely obvious. I understand that this is kind of the industry standard these days, much the same as the resort fees that many hotels charge you, however I'd rather be able to pay everything upfront so I don't have to be stressed about having to read the fine print all the time to avoid overspending. Is there a cruise line that does this? Maybe it's just a matter of becoming more experienced?

 

Thank you for all the information and support I received here. It would never have happened without you.

Edited December 29, 2014 by athe0007

[sparks1093]

Hello all,

 

So I thought I should update you all about how this worked out. So as I said, Norwegian offered us a $4500 on another cruise to be used within one year, which we accepted. Because we were cash poor after Hawaii, I searched carefully for a good deal. I found an off-season 10 day Eastern Mediterranean on the Jade that we could take for little more than the credit and I found fights we could use with miles. Once again, I booked a two bedroom cabin and this time we were really pleased. The cabin and the itinerary were incredibly nice. The service was good and the food was better than the POA. I would recommend this December cruise because many people who'd traveled to these destinations before mentioned how amazingly uncrowded they were. We also were lucky to have good, sometimes great, weather the whole trip (at least great weather for Minnesotans ;) ).

 

So overall, I think Norwegian made up for their error and we thank them for the generous compensation. Morally though, I have to warn other cruisers that they still seem to have the same inaccurate floor plan up for the two bedroom cabin on the POA. I would suggest double checking to be sure you get what you are expecting. The floor plan for the Jade was exactly the same as what we walked into and it was an amazingly elegant cabin.

 

One additional comment/question: the only thing I was unhappy about on our most recent cruise was that they seem to try and squeeze you for every dollar they can, often with charges that are not completely obvious. I understand that this is kind of the industry standard these days, much the same as the resort fees that many hotels charge you, however I'd rather be able to pay everything upfront so I don't have to be stressed about having to read the fine print all the time to avoid overspending. Is there a cruise line that does this? Maybe it's just a matter of becoming more experienced?

 

Thank you for all the information and support I received here. It would never have happened without you.

 

Thanks for the update and glad you had a good time on your subsequent cruise. Yes, it is industry practice to seperate as many of your dollars from you that they can. The more upscale lines tend to include more in the base fare but of course the base fare is much higher. Best defense is to know exactly what is included and not to be afraid to ask questions.

[Hlitner]

The issue of "maximizing onboard revenue" is an industry standard among the mass market cruise lines, and we agree that it can be a royal pain. But many of these things can be avoided. In fact, we recently spent 14 days on a Celebrity cruise and only spent about $60 onboard which was what we paid for an alternative restaurant. If we had not done that restaurant (Qsine) our onboard account charges would have been a big fat zero. On that cruise we had booked with a promo that included the Classic Drink Package (covered all of our drinks...both booze and otherwise), pre paid gratuities, and a nice onboard credit (which DW spent on some jewelry....but we could have withdrawn it in cash at the casino). My point is that you can avoid much of the nickel and diming if you resist spending money on things like gambling, Bingo, pictures, etc.

 

Hank

[LkMichigan beach bum]

The issue of "maximizing onboard revenue" is an industry standard among the mass market cruise lines, and we agree that it can be a royal pain. But many of these things can be avoided. In fact, we recently spent 14 days on a Celebrity cruise and only spent about $60 onboard which was what we paid for an alternative restaurant. If we had not done that restaurant (Qsine) our onboard account charges would have been a big fat zero. On that cruise we had booked with a promo that included the Classic Drink Package (covered all of our drinks...both booze and otherwise), pre paid gratuities, and a nice onboard credit (which DW spent on some jewelry....but we could have withdrawn it in cash at the casino). My point is that you can avoid much of the nickel and diming if you resist spending money on things like gambling, Bingo, pictures, etc.

 

Hank

 

Sorry using this to get your attention. I have searched for your email or posts. :confused: I am wondering IF YOU DID rent a car and drive from Alesund Norway to Geiranger and back. I will be in Alesund mid May and we are considering following your route that U and Lars worked out. Sorry again I just did nor know how to ask IF this car rental worked out for U. :)

 

Bev

[grand isle joe]

NCL Pride of America was THE WORSE ship/boat/garbage barge I have ever sailed....if your "bait and switch" did occur on the "Disgrace of America" than good luck is all I can offer......

[njhorseman]

NCL Pride of America was THE WORSE ship/boat/garbage barge I have ever sailed....if your "bait and switch" did occur on the "Disgrace of America" than good luck is all I can offer......

 

I guess you didn't bother to read anything but the first post. Try reading post #103, just made by the OP this morning, which includes the following:

"So I thought I should update you all about how this worked out. So as I said, Norwegian offered us a $4500 on another cruise to be used within one year, which we accepted."

 

And:

 

"So overall, I think Norwegian made up for their error and we thank them for the generous compensation."

[ducklite]

What is sad is that the OP had to spend more money. The line should have cut them a check that they could use as they saw fit.

[NIATPAC29]

NCL Pride of America was THE WORSE ship/boat/garbage barge I have ever sailed....if your "bait and switch" did occur on the "Disgrace of America" than good luck is all I can offer......

 

 

A not so wise latecomer !!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[sparks1093]

What is sad is that the OP had to spend more money. The line should have cut them a check that they could use as they saw fit.

 

I would have been happy with the $4500 and evidently the OP was also.

[Cruisin' Chick]

From what I understand NCL is one of the worst when it comes to extra charges.

 

Our most recent three cruises have been the Hawaiian RT on Princess (LA-Hawaii). Twice as long as the cruise the OP took. Our fare (either insides or OV) for the three of us have been under $6,000 (the third passenger was much less). Again, these were 14 or 15 day cruises. Fortunately we live an hour's drive from the port, so no hotel rooms or flights necessary. As we booked land transportation to and from the port, we didn't have parking fees.

 

On board, we probably spent much less than some people do on an one-week cruise. We don't gamble, we're not big drinkers (w did take on a box o'wine and some soft drinks, but hubby still bought a few drinks and my daughter bought a few sodas when she didn't want to return to the cabin to get something from the fridge. We don't do specialty restaurants (we did get a complimentary one so we tried it). We usually just buy inexpensive souvenirs. Most of the time in port we don't do excursions but tour on our own. But every once in a while we'll book an excursion through the cruiseline. We also do buy some photographs from the ship, but only if hubby likes them (he's picky about open eyes and unsilly faces, which we don't always oblige him on).

 

My point is that other than the fare, tips (which we never reduce and often add to), transportation to/from the ship, expenses off the ship...anything else you spend is voluntary. Enjoy yourself and indulge yourself if you want. Cruises are still a great vacation and considering that overall, prices for cruises haven't gone up geometrically -- at least it doesn't seem like it too me -- stil a great value.

[njhorseman]

From what I understand NCL is one of the worst when it comes to extra charges.

 

Our most recent three cruises have been the Hawaiian RT on Princess (LA-Hawaii). Twice as long as the cruise the OP took. Our fare (either insides or OV) for the three of us have been under $6' date='000 (the third passenger was much less). Again, these were 14 or 15 day cruises. Fortunately we live an hour's drive from the port, so no hotel rooms or flights necessary. As we booked land transportation to and from the port, we didn't have parking fees.

 

On board, we probably spent much less than some people do on an one-week cruise. We don't gamble, we're not big drinkers (w did take on a box o'wine and some soft drinks, but hubby still bought a few drinks and my daughter bought a few sodas when she didn't want to return to the cabin to get something from the fridge. We don't do specialty restaurants (we did get a complimentary one so we tried it). We usually just buy inexpensive souvenirs. Most of the time in port we don't do excursions but tour on our own. But every once in a while we'll book an excursion through the cruiseline. We also do buy some photographs from the ship, but only if hubby likes them (he's picky about open eyes and unsilly faces, which we don't always oblige him on).

 

My point is that other than the fare, tips (which we never reduce and often add to), transportation to/from the ship, expenses off the ship...anything else you spend is voluntary. Enjoy yourself and indulge yourself if you want. Cruises are still a great vacation and considering that overall, prices for cruises haven't gone up geometrically -- at least it doesn't seem like it too me -- stil a great value.[/quote']

 

NCL is no better or worse than any mass market cruise line, including Carnival and Royal Caribbean (and that's from personal experience, not speculation). They all charge for pretty much the same things. I've never cruised on Princess, but a friend who has complained about all of their extra charges too, so it's likely that your favorite cruise line is no better.

[athe0007]

The issue of "maximizing onboard revenue" is an industry standard among the mass market cruise lines, and we agree that it can be a royal pain. But many of these things can be avoided. In fact, we recently spent 14 days on a Celebrity cruise and only spent about $60 onboard which was what we paid for an alternative restaurant. If we had not done that restaurant (Qsine) our onboard account charges would have been a big fat zero. On that cruise we had booked with a promo that included the Classic Drink Package (covered all of our drinks...both booze and otherwise), pre paid gratuities, and a nice onboard credit (which DW spent on some jewelry....but we could have withdrawn it in cash at the casino). My point is that you can avoid much of the nickel and diming if you resist spending money on things like gambling, Bingo, pictures, etc.

 

Hank

 

For NCL not only do you have gratuities that sneak up on you, but they now have a "Service Charge" each day for each person, $12, which for the four of us meant $48 a day, $480 for the cruise. That kind of wiped our our $300 on board credit. :(

 

Michael

[athe0007]

We were happy with the $4500 credit, given how enjoyable the cruise was. If I hadn't been able to find free flights and had had to pay another $4000 for airfare I would not have been happy. It turned out that for the frequent flier miles to dollar ratio we got the best return possible on these flights to Rome, so I was happy.

 

We were a little wiser about on board spending this trip. We didn't gamble and didn't buy the drink packages. We found that they offered different budget cocktails each night and did one or two of those. We found out on the POA that the specialty restaurants were not worth the extra cost (we're very picky about food). On the Jade the Alizar (for free) was as good and any of the specialty restaurants on the POA and since we had a suite we got breakfast and lunch at Cagney's for free (this was a BIG plus). I wonder how good the specialty restaurants would have been on the Jade? I also discovered that I could find private tours via TripAdvisor that for four people were 20% to 60% less than cost for the ship group excursions. My primary complaint was the per person daily "service charge" which totaled $480 and immediately wiped out our $300 on board credit.

 

Michael

Edited December 30, 2014 by athe0007

[njhorseman]

For NCL not only do you have gratuities that sneak up on you, but they now have a "Service Charge" each day for each person, $12, which for the four of us meant $48 a day, $480 for the cruise. That kind of wiped our our $300 on board credit. :(

 

Michael

 

What gratuities "sneak up on you" on NCL? The $12 per person per day service charge replaces what are called "gratuities", "tips" or "hotel charges" on other cruise lines...so there's no double charging or anything sneaking up on you, it's just called something different on NCL. NCL has had this in place for years...it's not anything new or something they "now have". Again, although other cruise lines may use a different name to describe it, they also add it directly to your onboard account, so NCL is no different than other lines in that practice.

 

The 15% that's added for drink purchases is no different on NCL...all cruise lines charge this unless you have an all-inclusive package.

 

If you're a suite passenger you can tip the butler and concierge at your discretion...it's not mandatory, not automatically added onto your account, and the amount, if you choose to tip them, is strictly up to you.

[athe0007]

What gratuities "sneak up on you" on NCL? The $12 per person per day service charge replaces what are called "gratuities", "tips" or "hotel charges" on other cruise lines...so there's no double charging or anything sneaking up on you, it's just called something different on NCL. NCL has had this in place for years...it's not anything new or something they "now have". Again, although other cruise lines may use a different name to describe it, they also add it directly to your onboard account, so NCL is no different than other lines in that practice.

 

The 15% that's added for drink purchases is no different on NCL...all cruise lines charge this unless you have an all-inclusive package.

 

If you're a suite passenger you can tip the butler and concierge at your discretion...it's not mandatory, not automatically added onto your account, and the amount, if you choose to tip them, is strictly up to you.

 

Not to be rude, but I suppose this wouldn't sneak up on you as an experienced cruiser, but as novices it did (more the 4x factor). On other vacations we've taken tips included means tips included and we normally tip anyway, as we did on this cruise. To me, ironically, it just seems to make the onboard credit meaningless. The most trouble I had was after the cruise in Rome trying to figure out when and how much to tip!

 

We tipped the butler 100 euros, was that too much or too little? I haven't figured this out yet. Having worked as a service person when I was poor and younger I try to tip generously.

Edited December 30, 2014 by athe0007

[SuiteTraveler]

Not to be rude, but I suppose this wouldn't sneak up on you as an experienced cruiser, but as novices it did (more the 4x factor). On other vacations we've taken tips included means tips included and we normally tip anyway, as we did on this cruise. To me, ironically, it just seems to make the onboard credit meaningless. The most trouble I had was after the cruise in Rome trying to figure out when and how much to tip!

 

We tipped the butler 100 euros, was that too much or too little? I haven't figured this out yet. Having worked as a service person when I was poor and younger I try to tip generously.

 

$3.50 to $5 per person per day for the butler plus extra for any extra room service or tasks he does for you is the correct tip amount, so you tipped your butler correctly.

 

You might think about an all-inclusive cruise in the future. This article may help you to determine if that would be appropriate for your family:

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/luxury-cruise-worth-money/story?id=18170989

 

I've done all-inclusive on Uniworld River Cruises and it really wound up costing about the same as we pay for a suite on a mass market cruise line, but the experience was even more outstanding, so it was worth it to us. But you would need to determine that for yourself as this is a very individual decision.

[njhorseman]

Not to be rude, but I suppose this wouldn't sneak up on you as an experienced cruiser, but as novices it did (more the 4x factor). On other vacations we've taken tips included means tips included and we normally tip anyway, as we did on this cruise. To me, ironically, it just seems to make the onboard credit meaningless. The most trouble I had was after the cruise in Rome trying to figure out when and how much to tip!

 

We tipped the butler 100 euros, was that too much or too little? I haven't figured this out yet. Having worked as a service person when I was poor and younger I try to tip generously.

 

But NCL doesn't say that "tips are included" (nor does any US-based mass market cruise line), so you're starting with a flawed assumption, and I don't know where or how you got that idea.

 

There's no right or wrong amount to tip your butler...it's your discretion, but most passengers would likely base it on their perceived value of the service they received. Your 100 euro tip is certainly within reason...certainly not on the high side, but not abnormally low either.

[SuiteTraveler]

If you look at online travel agent sites regularly you will often see cruises where the tips actually ARE included by the travel agency. Sometimes you can even get tips included plus onboard credit. So, if you decide to ever cruise again, you might want to search for those deals in the future.

[athe0007]

$3.50 to $5 per person per day for the butler plus extra for any extra room service or tasks he does for you is the correct tip amount, so you tipped your butler correctly.

 

You might think about an all-inclusive cruise in the future. This article may help you to determine if that would be appropriate for your family:

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/luxury-cruise-worth-money/story?id=18170989

 

I've done all-inclusive on Uniworld River Cruises and it really wound up costing about the same as we pay for a suite on a mass market cruise line, but the experience was even more outstanding, so it was worth it to us. But you would need to determine that for yourself as this is a very individual decision.

 

Thanks for the info!

[iheartbda]

NCL is no better or worse than any mass market cruise line, including Carnival and Royal Caribbean (and that's from personal experience, not speculation). They all charge for pretty much the same things. I've never cruised on Princess, but a friend who has complained about all of their extra charges too, so it's likely that your favorite cruise line is no better.

I have cruised Princess and your thought is correct.....Princess is no better.;):)

 

Something that is a bit confusing to me is the OP's very first post. They said they were currently on a cruise to Hawaii. On their most recent posts, they said gratuities/service charge/ tips, etc. "sneaked" up on them. Did they not tip on the Hawaii cruise?:confused:

 

I guess everyone is different but I can remember going on our first cruise and didn't know about Cruise Critic. It was on Celebrity and they sent out booklets with everything you needed to know. I read that booklet front to back numerous times, as did my husband, so we knew what was included, dress code, who to tip and how much, etc., etc.

 

But in this day and age, all that information can be found on any of the cruise line's website. :)

[athe0007]

But NCL doesn't say that "tips are included" (nor does any US-based mass market cruise line), so you're starting with a flawed assumption, and I don't know where or how you got that idea.

 

There's no right or wrong amount to tip your butler...it's your discretion, but most passengers would likely base it on their perceived value of the service they received. Your 100 euro tip is certainly within reason...certainly not on the high side, but not abnormally low either.

 

You're right, it was a flawed naive assumption, but essentially they are "including" the tips for you involuntarily by adding them to your "tab." In a way it allows them to pay the staff less of a base salary by guaranteeing them a fixed tip rate that you're paying. If you were careful about what services you used you could probably be fair to the staff with direct tips and save yourself money. Whatever! I'll just know better what to expect the next time.

[athe0007]

I have cruised Princess and your thought is correct.....Princess is no better.;):)

 

Something that is a bit confusing to me is the OP's very first post. They said they were currently on a cruise to Hawaii. On their most recent posts, they said gratuities/service charge/ tips, etc. "sneaked" up on them. Did they not tip on the Hawaii cruise?:confused:

 

There was a lot of hocus pocus going on during the Hawaii cruise. We had an original $300 credit with the booking, then to try and placate us about the disappearing 2 bedroom cabin they gave us a $500 ship board credit, so the "service charge" didn't make such an obvious appearance because we never used that much of the additional credit. In Hawaii we tipped the steward, the butler, and the concierge. Were we suppose to tip someone else?

Edited December 31, 2014 by athe0007

[iheartbda]

There was a lot of hocus pocus going on during the Hawaii cruise. We had an original $300 credit with the booking, then to try and placate us about the disappearing 2 bedroom cabin they gave us a $500 ship board credit, so the "service charge" didn't make such an obvious appearance because we never used that much of the additional credit. In Hawaii we tipped the steward, the butler, and the concierge. Were we suppose to tip someone else?

 

No, you did well. Some people choose to tip the dining staff if they feel they've gone "above and beyond" but there is no need to.

 

In your other post you talk about tipping directly and saving some money. You can remove the daily service charge and tip directly but that causes some "issues". First, it really won't save you money and I know NCL for one, asks if there is a problem and if there is, could they please rectify said problem. The general consensus is, and I have no reason to doubt this since it has been posted by many, many times by many posters that when you remove the DSC and tip directly, those crew members have to turn that money in where it is put into a pool, then divided. If you leave the DSC in place and choose to tip over and above in cash, the crew can keep that money.

 

As an aside, all cruise lines, except for the very high end lines, pay pretty much the same way, i,e. a low base salary and and the rest of what they make is in tips service charge, or whatever each line calls it.

Edited December 31, 2014 by iheartbda