How did my minor child get drunk on Ruby?

[Mom33]

[quote name='hubofhockey']No, when in international waters, the Captain is NOT the law. The law is the law under the country of the flag the ship is registered. Captains cannot arbitrarily reduce drinking ages. The have to operate under the law of that country.[/QUOTE]

The point is the Captain is the police, sheriff or whatever you wish to call him operating under the flag of the ship. He is the law at sea.The laws are in the contract you sign to sail. If you violate the law you suffer the consequence. The 21 law is not a matter of "policy" such as formal night clothing and the big jacket debate.

[Ethel5]

[quote name='DrSch']BINGO!! THIS ^^

Too many people go on cruises these days, and expect no only the crew to be the baby sitter to their teenagers, but the other passengers as well.

Sorry people, you have kids.. just because Princess has a kid's club, it doesn't mean you are on vacation from being a parent.. you get to do that until the kid is out on his own, and sometimes you need to be a parent after that as well.
......................................SNIP............................................[/QUOTE]

Very well stated. I think a lot of us have parented kids on cruises. I once stopped a few teen girls from elevator races. It's no wonder people hate to cruises with kids. Sometimes the little ones are easier than the teens.

[DMRick]

Many if you said it's the parents and kids responsibility. While I believe it ultimately is, once the teen center recognized a problem was big enough to make a call to the cabin, I don't believe they went far enough. Parents should have been paged. By making that call, they got involved and should have followed through. While I doubt the ship is responsible for his drinking, once they decided he was under the influence they have the (IMO) responsibility to see to it his parents are notified, and not to just leave a message since there was another way to reach them.

[Blk_Amish]

[quote name='DMRick']Many if you said it's the parents and kids responsibility. While I believe it ultimately is, once the teen center recognized a problem was big enough to make a call to the cabin, I don't believe they went far enough. Parents should have been paged. By making that call, they got involved and should have followed through. While I doubt the ship is responsible for his drinking, once they decided he was under the influence they have the (IMO) responsibility to see to it his parents are notified, and not to just leave a message since there was another way to reach them.[/QUOTE]

This is true. We are living in a day and age where most parents care only about their kids and it's OK to look the other way when others are involved. I reported my concern about teen drinking on another board and was told it was none of my business. The attitude holds with many people, not my kid therefore not my concern. Now the business we entrust with has the same attitude.

How much paging in this incident hurt anyone. It's easy for perfect parents, as there are so many, to think only of their prefect kids. I was up keeping track of mine but my vigilance failed compared to the offering of a pretty girl. We know if there was a page someone would complain about the noise. It would be easier to blame the parent the next day if the child died, than to be disturbed. Welcome to what these kids are blessed with. I no longer expect many to look beyond their own, sad but true.


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Forums mobile app Edited January 4, 2014 by Blk_Amish

[Loonbeam]

The only way to ensure that a page would be heard would be to use the all cabin and venue channel, which would interrupt shows, etc and depending on the time wake people who might think it was an actual emergency. Thepublic page is only in limited areas and can be very hard to hear. Unfortunately, there is just no good way to quickly locate a person on a cruise ship. Facial recognition could do it, but that's system intensive and honestly a little creepy.

[quote name='DMRick']Many if you said it's the parents and kids responsibility. While I believe it ultimately is, once the teen center recognized a problem was big enough to make a call to the cabin, I don't believe they went far enough. Parents should have been paged. By making that call, they got involved and should have followed through. While I doubt the ship is responsible for his drinking, once they decided he was under the influence they have the (IMO) responsibility to see to it his parents are notified, and not to just leave a message since there was another way to reach them.[/quote]

[Blk_Amish]

[quote name='Loonbeam']The only way to ensure that a page would be heard would be to use the all cabin and venue channel, which would interrupt shows, etc and depending on the time wake people who might think it was an actual emergency. Thepublic page is only in limited areas and can be very hard to hear. Unfortunately, there is just no good way to quickly locate a person on a cruise ship. Facial recognition could do it, but that's system intensive and honestly a little creepy.[/QUOTE]

If a child becomes deathly ill (or drunk), there is no way to contact the parent? You drop them off and they are really SOL if something went really wrong before you get back. The ship is the size of the city, so that's like dropping your kids off at the baby sitter or school, with no reasonable means for them to contact you in an emergency. I never knew that but I guess that's why Disney has pagers! Edited January 4, 2014 by Blk_Amish

[MauiLvrs]

[quote name='Mom33']The 21 law is not a matter of "policy" such as formal night clothing and the big jacket debate.[/QUOTE]
Actually it is and varies by cruise line.

Norwegian
[INDENT][I]If you’re 18 through 20 years of age and you have the written consent of your parents or guardian (parent or guardian must be on board), you can purchase beer or wine for yourself only when the ship is sailing in international waters (except on Alaska and Hawai‘i cruises where you must be 21 years of age to consume or purchase alcohol of any kind).[/I][/INDENT]

Royal Caribbean International
[INDENT][I]The minimum age to consume alcohol on Royal Caribbean International ships on sailings originating in North America is twenty-one (21).
The minimum age to consume alcohol on Royal Caribbean International ships on sailings from South America, Europe, Asia, Australia and New Zealand is eighteen (18)[/I][/INDENT]

The US is only [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age"]country in America[/URL] with a age limit of 21.
Nearly all are 18 including Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. :eek:
Mexico 18 and Canada 18-19.

Nearly everyone gets it that if you are old enough to die for your country ... you are old enough to drink ... except for us.

If you can find an actual law that restricts drinking in international waters to 21+ ... you could post it here ... I couldn't find one. Edited January 4, 2014 by MauiLvrs

[Seafoam Green]

First of all, I understand the seriousness of the OP's concerns and the difficulties of parenting as children mature and navigate socially before being of legal drinking age. DH and I will only now consider taking our kids along on a cruise since the youngest is over 21.

I think this is the appropriate place to share with CC the philosophy that my parents had toward travel, and cruising in particular:

[B][I]There are two ways to travel: First Class, or with your kids.[/I][/B]

:D

[Moviegirlnyorlando]

We were on the 12/22 ruby cruise and visited our son in the club many times. Almost every time there was one if not two security guards outside the teen/children's club area. I was surprised about no curfew. Other lines have a curfew for all ages even teens and you pay a nominal fee per hour for baby sitting if parents want to stay out late. That wasn't e case with us we were way badk to our cabin before our son. He was good about coming back by 1am or so every night (no drinking) but on thr last night he was so sad to leave my husband had to leave the cabin at 5 am and find a crew member to f dm him and a group of other boys and girls sitting by the back pool lounge not drinking. I think a curfew would be better with maybe at least one of two lounge areas where kids/teens are allowed to be in them with parents or guardians. Also my 20 year old was with us. Ain't our curfews last year she was not allowed to drink on the boat (but when we went to Mexico the year before at 19 she could drink all she wanted.. We had brought on champagne for mimosas on Christmas morning in our cabin so did treat her to one then, I personally think 18 year olds who drive on our highways, fight in our armies and can possess fire arms should be able to have a cocktail. I never allow her or any of my children to drink away from me t I think that even the 1/2 glass champagne toast I allowed my 13 year old this past New Year's Eve allows it not to be such a taboo and makes them less likely to get stupor drunk on Martinique behinds back, when my daughters went to Europe when my youngest was 14 I signed the waiver and she was freely allowed to drink wine with dinner as most civilized countries allow. We pump pour kids in this country full of speed Ritalin and downer anti depression but don't let them have wine with dinner ? It's crazy. My daughter will have a glass of wen or a sip of a drink I have now but doesn't particularly like it. She will be 21 in 4 months and has no plans for wild drunken parties either as it's no big deal to her. We are in fact going to go to NYC for her birthday where I will order her her first drink in a restaurant she can have legally and I'm sure it wove the a big deal. When I was 18 drinking was legal, and my parents let me taste thier high balls or beers or wine as a child and I am not at all an excessive drinker, I only drink very rarely, Prohibition is insane,

That said if the teens or any person was impaired security should have found the parents or not left them alone until they did. I would not be upset of I heard a call overhead and it was for a reason like that. Rather that theg a rink child falling overboard

That's my two cents

[Mom33]

[quote name='MauiLvrs']Actually it is and varies by cruise line.

Norwegian
[INDENT][I]If you’re 18 through 20 years of age and you have the written consent of your parents or guardian (parent or guardian must be on board), you can purchase beer or wine for yourself only when the ship is sailing in international waters (except on Alaska and Hawai‘i cruises where you must be 21 years of age to consume or purchase alcohol of any kind).[/I][/INDENT]

[B]Royal Caribbean International
[INDENT][I]The minimum age to consume alcohol on Royal Caribbean International ships on[B] sailings originating in North America is twenty-one (21).[/B]
T[/B]he minimum age to consume alcohol on Royal Caribbean International ships on sailings from South America, Europe, Asia, Australia and New Zealand is eighteen (18)[/I][/INDENT]

The US is only [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age"]country in America[/URL] with a age limit of 21.
Nearly all are 18 including Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. :eek:
Mexico 18 and Canada 18-19.

Nearly everyone gets it that if you are old enough to die for your country ... you are old enough to drink ... except for us.

If you can find an actual law that restricts drinking in international waters to 21+ ... you could post it here ... I couldn't find one.[/QUOTE]

If the laws of the country the ship sails from are the laws to be applied, then
the OP's son violated the drinking law, not just his parent's rules. Edited January 4, 2014 by Mom33

[MauiLvrs]

[quote name='Mom33']If the laws of the country the ship sails from are the laws to be applied, then
the OP's son violated the drinking law, not just his parent's rules.[/QUOTE]
That isn't the case...
They violated the contract of carriage.

[Moviegirlnyorlando]

Sorry for typos I am in hospital with IVs .

[Ethel5]

[quote name='MauiLvrs']Actually it is and varies by cruise line.

Norwegian
[INDENT][I]If you’re 18 through 20 years of age and you have the written consent of your parents or guardian (parent or guardian must be on board), you can purchase beer or wine for yourself only when the ship is sailing in international waters (except on Alaska and Hawai‘i cruises where you must be 21 years of age to consume or purchase alcohol of any kind).[/I][/INDENT]

Royal Caribbean International
[INDENT][I]The minimum age to consume alcohol on Royal Caribbean International ships on sailings originating in North America is twenty-one (21).
The minimum age to consume alcohol on Royal Caribbean International ships on sailings from South America, Europe, Asia, Australia and New Zealand is eighteen (18)[/I][/INDENT]

The US is only [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age"]country in America[/URL] with a age limit of 21.
Nearly all are 18 including Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. :eek:
Mexico 18 and Canada 18-19.

Nearly everyone gets it that if you are old enough to die for your country ... you are old enough to drink ... except for us.

If you can find an actual law that restricts drinking in international waters to 21+ ... you could post it here ... I couldn't find one.[/QUOTE]

This kid wasn't even 17 yet, so it is a moot point what the drinking age is-he violated the law! Edited January 4, 2014 by Ethel5

[JimmyVWine]

[quote name='Moviegirlnyorlando']I was surprised about no curfew. [/quote]
There [B]is[/B] a curfew. It's the one [B]you[/B] set. My daughter shouldn't need a ship rule to let her know when she has to be back to our cabin. She has a dad that will lay down that law.

[Loonbeam]

Sadly yes, that is the case. Of course in a medical emergency (which there has been no evidence of in this matter) they would use the all-ship page, but not for underage drinking violations or rowdy teens, etc.

Disney's Wave Phone system is one thing I think EVERY line should copy.

[quote name='Blk_Amish']If a child becomes deathly ill (or drunk), there is no way to contact the parent? You drop them off and they are really SOL if something went really wrong before you get back. The ship is the size of the city, so that's like dropping your kids off at the baby sitter or school, with no reasonable means for them to contact you in an emergency. I never knew that but I guess that's why Disney has pagers![/quote]

[caribill]

[quote name='Mom33']If the laws of the country the ship sails from are the laws to be applied, then
the OP's son violated the drinking law, not just his parent's rules.[/quote]

It is the country of the ship's registry, not the country it sails from.

[Mom33]

[quote name='Ethel5']This kid wasn't even 17 yet, so it is a moot point what the drinking age is-he violated the law![/QUOTE]

Good point!:)

[Posaune]

Thank you to the original poster for having the courage to post your issue and concerns. Some of the comments have been quite productive, others not at all.

We have witnessed kids left in their own cabin with the parents cabin on a different deck on several cruises. On one particular cruise the kids, males in the 13-16 age range, had somehow obtained alcohol and were hosting parties with young girls. Security was called several times and the parents could not be located. It was the last night of a 12 night cruise before the kids were actually caught and the parents were forced to occupy a cabin with their kids. The parents denied their little darlings had done anything wrong.

If a kid wants to get alcohol, they will find it. I hope this thread will convince at least a few parents to keep a closer eye on their kids while on a cruise. It may or may not be the law, but it sure is common sense.

[Mom33]

[quote name='Posaune']Thank you to the original poster for having the courage to post your issue and concerns. Some of the comments have been quite productive, others not at all.

We have witnessed kids left in their own cabin with the parents cabin on a different deck on several cruises. On one particular cruise the kids, males in the 13-16 age range, had somehow obtained alcohol and were hosting parties with young girls. Security was called several times and the parents could not be located. It was the last night of a 12 night cruise before the kids were actually caught and the parents were forced to occupy a cabin with their kids. The parents denied their little darlings had done anything wrong.

[B]If a kid wants to get alcohol, they will find it. I hope this thread will convince at least a few parents to keep a closer eye on their kids while on a cruise. It may or may not be the law, but it sure is common sense.[/QUOTE]
[/B]

Excellent post!

[DMRick]

Drinking age of the US doesn't matter.. This child was 16..it has no bearing. Sorry if a page would interrupt a show and inconvenience a few. There needs to he a way to reach parents. A drunk 16 year old on a ship can be dangerous. If there are no pagers for parents, and paging ship wide puts people out, then security should hold onto child (16 is still a child.. can't vote or go in the service) until parents respond to phone call, if the teen center thought it was important enough to call parents in the first place. They actually made the choice that something should be done. Start making examples of a few parents and put the family off the ship and I bet when it gets out, parents will get the message they need to be in charge of their children.

[chamima]

[IMG]https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/580960_487513441303218_188263451_n.jpg[/IMG][/IMG]Busted Locals's photo.
Click on the image for a larger view. Edited January 4, 2014 by chamima

[Loonbeam]

One thing we don't know is how drunk the minor actually was. There is a difference between inebriated enough to be a jerk and so drunk they can't stand. If the latter, then yes a page is appropriate.

It's important to note that this is probably NOT the only incident like this during that particular voyage. As noted, its not uncommon for teens to get alcohol by a variety of means. If they paged for every incident, no one would sleep.

[quote name='DMRick']Drinking age of the US doesn't matter.. This child was 16..it has no bearing. Sorry if a page would interrupt a show and inconvenience a few. There needs to he a way to reach parents. A drunk 16 year old on a ship can be dangerous. If there are no pagers for parents, and paging ship wide puts people out, then security should hold onto child (16 is still a child.. can't vote or go in the service) until parents respond to phone call, if the teen center thought it was important enough to call parents in the first place. They actually made the choice that something should be done. Start making examples of a few parents and put the family off the ship and I bet when it gets out, parents will get the message they need to be in charge of their children.[/quote]

[Thorpe]

[quote name='caribill']It is the country of the ship's registry, not the country it sails from.[/QUOTE]

Actually on the Sun, Sea and Dawn that sail from Australia the drinking age is 18. Not sure about Diamond now that she does Australia and Asia.

[Blk_Amish]

[quote name='goose30']Every one wants to know why the "child" was served alcohol. It has not been established as a fact that he was "served". His friend could have ordered it for him, he could have picked up a drink from an unattended table, he could have raided a mini bar. In those cases he would not have been "served".

What is fact is that he was stupid enough to go to the teen club after drinking. Seems to be a little lack of training (of the "child") somewhere here.[/QUOTE]

I think this is a lot of judgement either from someone who had no kids, was never a kid, are blessed with perfect kids. Going to the teen club might have been a life and death decision for the kid. By doing so, the parents were made aware, and were over his butt like white on rice. Information maybe the key to keep our not so perfect kids safe. Chances are the posters who think this is always about training are the ones who are delusional to think not my kids. After all, you trained yours well and this would never happen.

Not having a system in place to deal with this type of incident or child's emergency is weak on Princess part or anyone taking responsibility of children. Edited January 4, 2014 by Blk_Amish

[tanzer22pilot]

[quote name='DrSch']BINGO!! THIS ^^

Too many people go on cruises these days, and expect no only the crew to be the baby sitter to their teenagers, but the other passengers as well.

Sorry people, you have kids.. just because Princess has a kid's club, it doesn't mean you are on vacation from being a parent.. you get to do that until the kid is out on his own, and sometimes you need to be a parent after that as well.

The 16 and older group has free range to roam the ship. The younger kids are watched, but the older kids have the freedom to roam the ship and cause trouble.

To expect that Princess and Princess security will do the job of parenting is insane. Without thinking about it, way too many parents just think "OK..Princess and Princess security will watch my child, I can pretend I don't have them and go and have fun."

So as a passenger without kids, I have to deal with packs of kids running down the halls at night.. taking the do not disturb signs off doors, hanging out up at MUTS being loud and "Cool". I have seen people's vacations ruined by other people's kids.. on one ship, there were over 700 kids, and they would hang out on top of the ship and make it uncomfortable for some of the older people to simply stroll the deck.

I have on more than on occasion on a ship had to be the parent to your kids.. I am far more intimidating that a 16 year old, and I have stopped them dead in their tracks from running down the halls. I have told them to leave the MUTS area when they are talking so loudly that people can't hear the movie. I won't put up with crap from your kids.

The point being that YOU and only YOU are responsible for your kid's behavior on the ship (And everywhere else for that matter). You can focus on who on the ship was at fault, but bottom line, you are at fault.. even though you did nothing wrong.

OP.. make sure your kid knows that other people spent the money they had saved up for a vacation on that cruise. His being drunk and unruly could have damaged their vacation. Does he have the right to do that to them?

People may lose their jobs on the cruise line because he had to get drunk.. How does he feel about the fact that he may have cost someone their job?

Princess may lose business because he decided he wanted to get drunk and other people were offended by drunk kids roaming around on their ship... How does he feel about the fact that he may have damaged future sales for Princess.

For those of you that say "You can't stop a 16 year old from drinking / trying to drink".. I can tell you that I wouldn't have dared to do that when I was younger, because I feared my father. Stop trying to be "Besties" with your kids and start being parents..[/QUOTE]


Great post! Maybe the OP needs to not allow her child to "free-range".