Going ashore with documents and sail and sign card security

[cruisemom42]

Still waiting for a cite from the State Department. As I posted, there are specific examples on the State Department Website stating that either a Passport or Passport Card is needed for Cruise Ship Passengers for Aruba, St. Martin (french Side) and most of the other Netherlands Antilles Islands. It was also strongly suggested for Turks and Caicos. Looking over various pages on the State Department Website, I found absolutely NO statement that the Passport should be left on the ship.

I think that the citation that you are referring to was not the Official State Department Site but possibly a link to a cruise ship site that said to leave it in the safe.

 

I don't plan on needing the Passport, but having nearly missed a ship because of a private excursion that thought we left a half hour later, I am not planning to have to spend $500 for a new Passport from an embassy and then spend the additional costs to fly somewhere else to get said replacement passport.

 

So until someone can specifically link to a US State Department Page that says it is safer to leave the Passport on board, I will continue to carry it ashore in non-US ports. To do so would be irresponsible, no matter what you think.

 

There was indeed such a citation; I have posted it myself several times. However, the US State Department seems to have recently revised their website and I cannot locate the same now. To prove to you (as if there is a need :rolleyes:) that the many of us who have insisted this fact are not delusional, here is a previous post showing the old link and the wording used:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=39406107&postcount=12

 

Now, in their infinite wisdom, USSD seems to have decided to put such advice into the individual destination notes and advisories. On a cursory search I found several but I'm not about to go in and search for every possible country. Here's one for Guatamala that clearly advises leaving your passport in safe to avoid theft:

 

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/guatemala.html

 

I do not happen to agree with YOUR interpretation of the wording on the current US State Department site. However, you are entitled to think what you like, wrong as it may be...

 

Just to provide some additional perspective, review the posts in the thread below from "Palermo22" (particularly #15) who was a long-time US embassy staffer:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1907344&highlight=passport+safe+ashore

Edited May 20, 2014 by cruisemom42

[njhorseman]

Thanks for the link.

 

The State Dept info lists the following territories as requiring either a passport or passport card for sea travelers:

St Maarten and St Martin

Aruba

Bionair

Curacao

St Eustatius

 

Not sure if that's definitive regarding cruise ship pax, but I'm glad that I have both a passport and passport card. I will keep the passport book in the safe and go ashore with the passport card.

 

Unfortunately, there's a lot of misinformation on the State Department's website with regard to passport requirements for cruise passengers. For reasons that aren't at all clear to me, they totally ignore the "in transit" exceptions to passport requirements that are in place in many countries, with the most glaring example being various Caribbean islands. In fact no Caribbean island commonly visited by cruise ships based in the US requires anything more for US citizens than DHS's closed loop cruise rule requirement of a birth certificate and photo ID.

Edited May 20, 2014 by njhorseman

[dwjoe]

Unfortunately, there's a lot of misinformation on the State Department's website with regard to passport requirements for cruise passengers. For reasons that aren't at all clear to me, they totally ignore the "in transit" exceptions to passport requirements that are in place in many countries, with the most glaring example being various Caribbean islands. In fact no Caribbean island commonly visited by cruise ships based in the US requires anything more for US citizens than DHS's closed loop cruise rule requirement of a birth certificate and photo ID.

Right. I doubt that any Caribbean islands require a passport or passport card to go ashore, else we would hear about a lot of denied entry stories on cruise critic.

[njhorseman]

I have been to St. Martin on cruises numerous times and I have never needed my passport for St. Martin, and never took it with me when there.

 

Have things changed recently?

 

Absolutely nothing has changed. Unfortunately the State Department's website is chock full of misinformation on documentation requirements for cruise ship passengers.

[njhorseman]

Right. I doubt that any Caribbean islands require a passport or passport card to go ashore, else we would hear about a lot of denied entry stories on cruise critic.

 

In case of truth being stranger than fiction, the cruise lines' FAQs are actually far more reliable sources of information on this topic that than the State Department.

 

Actually it's not truth being stranger than fiction, because the cruise lines would be a lot of hot water if they didn't provide accurate information to their passengers (just don't rely on what their telephone reps say ;) ...read their website FAQs instead ).

Edited May 20, 2014 by njhorseman

[njhorseman]

Errr, no, that's not what you said in your earlier post.

What you said was "in most cases, if you are getting off the ship they recommend that you do take your passport with you."

That's not me being pedantic over words - If taking a passport ashore is required, that's a given, it needs no "recommendation" from the State Dept.

So, with greatest respect, your earlier post was incorrect & misleading.

 

Now onto something I'm not sure of my ground, but it's perhaps worth raising the question......................

Govt websites, T/As, and even embassies of the countries involved, are often guilty of painting passport & visa requirements with a broad brush & failing to mention on their websites the dispensations to cruisers on port-of-call visits.

As recently as last November no passport was required to visit St Maarten (either Dutch or French sides), and the State Dept makes no mention of port-of-call dispensations for other places I've visited more recently & where again passports were not required.

So is the State Dept giving out information about NEW requirements for Aruba, St Maarten etc, or simply failing to mention that port-of-call dispensation?

I'm not saying one way or the other, I'm just asking.;)

Makes no odds to me, I have to cruise with my passport anyway.

But some US citizens planning or booked on a closed loop cruise which includes those ports may not even have a passport.

Has anyone any experience of visiting those places in the past few weeks?

Were you required to take your passport ashore?

 

Edited on seeing JCL's concurrent post.

JCL's October experience at Aruba mirrors mine at St Maarten.

Has there been a later policy change?

 

JB :)

 

State Department is just failing to note the in-transit exceptions for cruise ship passengers on day visits in the Caribbean.

 

I was there a few weeks ago. I can assure you no one is required to carry a passport ashore. It would be kind of hard to impose that requirement when US citizens on a closed loop cruise aren't even required to have a passport. You can't carry ashore something you don't have. ;)

[John Bull]

Right. I doubt that any Caribbean islands require a passport or passport card to go ashore, else we would hear about a lot of denied entry stories on cruise critic.

 

Hi Joe,

This was one of the things which threw doubt in my mind, and why I asked the question. ;)

 

And subsequent posters seem to confirm. :)

 

JB :)

Edited May 20, 2014 by John Bull

[jcl410]

I had another thought regarding Caribbean cruises and what differences there might be regarding passport requirements.

 

I'd say we all (well most) are in agreement that Closed loop cruises from the US, at least for US citizens do not require passports.

 

But what about one way, or round trips that depart from another country? I've taken the Royal Clipper out of Barbados for a 7 day cruise, and they retained my passport for the duration. Of course I had to have it with me any way because I was flying from the US to Barbados. (It also meant I never went ashore with my passport because the Purser had it. :-) )

 

Aloha,

 

John

[dwjoe]

I had another thought regarding Caribbean cruises and what differences there might be regarding passport requirements.

 

I'd say we all (well most) are in agreement that Closed loop cruises from the US, at least for US citizens do not require passports.

 

But what about one way, or round trips that depart from another country? I've taken the Royal Clipper out of Barbados for a 7 day cruise, and they retained my passport for the duration. Of course I had to have it with me any way because I was flying from the US to Barbados. (It also meant I never went ashore with my passport because the Purser had it. :-) )

One way / repositioning cruises from one US port to another US port require a Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative compliant document such as a passport, passport card, or enhanced drivers license. A birth certificate will not suffice. Note that to avoid violation of the PVSA act, such cruises must touch a distant foreign port such as Aruba or Curacao.

 

One way sea travel from a foreign port to a US port again requires a WHTI-compliant document as before. The most common example I can think of is ferry service from the British Virgin Islands to the US Virgin Islands, or from Bahamas to Florida.

 

Cruises that depart and end in a foreign port are not subject to WHTI. Documentation requirements are subject to local law and the cruise line's discretion... but I would assume a passport is needed unless there is solid information to the contrary. In your Royal Clipper example it is an academic argument... since you needed a passport to fly between Barbados and the US, it is natural to use the passport for your cruise as well.

Edited May 21, 2014 by dwjoe

[mapsmith]

I find it insulting that you are now telling me that either I can't read or can't figure out where I am reading it. And I'm getting pretty tired of you refusing to believe what we are telling you.

 

You may have been correct. But currently the US Department of State says otherwise.

 

 

Again you are ignoring what everyone is telling you, that the cruise line will retrieve your passport and turn it over to the port officials for you when you finally arrive. People have reported that this is what happened to them, and if you ask any ship officer, they will agree. Are you calling them liars?

 

If I have a choice between what passengers or crew tells me and what the US Department of State says (and the Immigration Departments of the the other Countries) I will call the passengers liars every time.

 

 

 

You just said in your last paragraph: "I will continue to carry it ashore in non-US ports. To do so would be irresponsible, no matter what you think." It appears that you don't know what you are talking about because you just contradicted yourself.

 

The majority of people and travel experts agree that the true responsible action is to keep your passport safely secured at home or in your room safe if you are not required to have it on your person. The State Department has also recommended the same action, as several people have reported to you. Yet you refuse to believe anything unless you see it for yourself. Apparently to you we are all fools, are confused, or are liars.

 

So just continue to believe that we don't know what we are talking about. As the brilliant astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson once said about scientific fact: "When something is true, it is no longer subject to your opinion. It’s true whether or not you believe it." Believe what you want. You have every right to be wrong.

 

"Trying to convince a doubter of the facts is like trying to push a rope uphill - it will always result in futility." That is my quote. I am done with you.

 

And you are the one that is ignoring the quote From Tyson. You have been shown that there currently is NO statement from the State Department saying to leave the Passport in the Cruiseship Stateroom Cabin. You have been shown a link to the State Department Web Site that states that a passport or passport card is required in Aruba and most of Netherlands Antilles.

Just because people say it is not required does not change the laws. That is like the laws that say "Right turn on Red After Stop" when most people do not stop and just turn right on a red.

 

 

I have been explaining my thoughts to the OP about what to do when on shore. I pointed out that we always take our passports with us, because it is the law and is a better ID than a Driver's License.

 

(And we do not use Birth Certificates either. Those stay in the Safe Deposit Box at the Bank. We got the Passports so that we did not need to carry Birth Certificates and we can travel throughout the world.)

 

Your attitude toward my posts stinks. Grow up. and Obey the Laws.

Edited May 21, 2014 by mapsmith

[boogs]

I pointed out that we always take our passports with us, because it is the law and is a better ID than a Driver's License.

Your attitude toward my posts stinks. Grow up. and Obey the Laws.

 

Where does it say it is the law? Please provide the link to where I can read that for myself.

Edited May 21, 2014 by boogs