Possible policy change....what are your thoughts?

[stones902]

[quote name='waterbug123']Can you imagine the hassles that would come with such a policy?....

"We had a corner aft balcony booked, but there were no corner aft balconies available on any of the cruises we could book as a replacement and RC wouldn't upgrade us.:mad:"
or
"We specifically booked this cruise because it goes to island X and none of the itineraries in the next few months go there.:mad:"
or
"We had a great deal on airfare but the airfare for our replacement cruise is higher and RC won't pay the difference for us.:mad:"

and so on and so on.[/QUOTE]


It's not a perfect solution but a suggestion to address the original post.

I never contemplated that a person would be entitled to like value / accommodations on a subsequent cruise. It would be assigned on a "as available" basis. Also, I would think the cruise line would schedule people during a non peak time (I.e late Aug - late Oct) where there are better chance of unsold or heavily discounted cabins. Finally, I never said that airfare or pre cruise hotels would be compensated.

Granted, the person who opts off the cruise due to illness takes a risk but at least they know that they are going to be able to travel at a later date when they are feeling better and won't contaminate other pax. Travel insurance would be the safest option but most passengers don't purchase it and I don't believe the cruise line will require it. Like I said, not a perfect solution but at least it's something.


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[chrisb74]

How do you prove someone is sick? If I show up to my doctor and tell them I've been stuck on the toilet for the last 24 hours there's no way to prove I'm not just making it up because I want a refund on the cruise. Sure, it may show up in tests but it may not.

Also, if you wake up feeling sick on the morning of the cruise is it a virus, a reaction to different tap water in the hotel or just some mild food poisoning from the food stall you ate at last night. It's a tough call to walk away from the cruise you've been planning for months when you might be fine by dinner.

Oh and as for insurance. Two small examples from my travels. Mild flu on cruise ship: $450 for the doctor to say I might have a cold or a flu but he doesn't know. Rolled ankle in New York with X-rays to check: $600.




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[Cruise2014Fanatic]

[quote name='Scotty G']
A program as suggested would only raise the cruise fares of others since someone must pay for it. We always buy insurance and would not appreciate cruise fare increases due to such an idea being implemented.[/QUOTE]

Not sure that I can appreciate your math. Think about it. How much does the cruise line lose with one ship getting sick? Think about the cost in refunds, lost revenue, possible lawsuits, pr damage, lost customers, etc etc. why not allow the one guy who is going to infect the ship to have a credit to come back at a later date? It makes financial sense and good business sense.

[eddie]

[quote name='Scotty G']Ditto!!!! If you can't afford the insurance then you really can't afford to cruise. Sorry but that is reality.

Scotty I noticed on your profile that you sailed on the Georgic in 1951. In 1952 as a young boy of 8 I went with my Aunt and sister on the Georgic from New York to Cork Ireland.If I remember correctly it took us 9 days to cross the pond.

[Dave85]

[quote name='Cruise2014Fanatic']Not sure that I can appreciate your math. Think about it. How much does the cruise line lose with one ship getting sick? Think about the cost in refunds, lost revenue, possible lawsuits, pr damage, lost customers, etc etc. why not allow the one guy who is going to infect the ship to have a credit to come back at a later date? It makes financial sense and good business sense.[/QUOTE]


Exactly. A situation like the current Explorer fiasco is very costly for the line...


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[travelbuddies]

[quote name='setsail']They already offer and have for some time now cancel for any reason insurance. You just have to anti up the bucks[/QUOTE]

Ditto!

[waterbug123]

[quote name='stones902']

I never contemplated that a person would be entitled to like value / accommodations on a subsequent cruise. It would be assigned on a "as available" basis. Also, I would think the cruise line would schedule people during a non peak time (I.e late Aug - late Oct) where there are better chance of unsold or heavily discounted cabins. Finally, I never said that airfare or pre cruise hotels would be compensated.

[/quote]

No, you said none of these things. My point was that I'll bet it would take about 2 seconds until pax who were offered this option began to feel entitled to EXACTLY what they had booked before... looking a gift horse in the mouth, so to speak. Pretty soon it wouldn't be seen as "wow, this is great, you can now rebook if you're sick and not lose out financially if you don't have insurance" and it would become something that is taken for granted. And at that point people's expectations change.

[DrD]

[quote name='styles27']Of course you "don't get your money back at the end of your cruise" but you've received what you paid for. Our vacation was cut short because of a family death back home. The trip cancellation/interruption insurance we paid for (just over $300) covered this horrible unexpected incident.


So, yes in fact we did get our money back, because we could not continue our vacation...we received a check for just over $7,000 which covered the remainder of the trip we had to cancel, and our travel expenses to get home.

The only money we "lost' was the cost of the insurance which was just over $300
We booked another trip and went later in the year.
If we hadn't purchased insurance we would have lost all of the $8k and most likely we would not have gone later in the year.

So explain to me how insurance wasn't "mathematically worth it"? :confused:[/QUOTE]

Easy, $8000 / $300 is 27, so to break even you'd have to miss on average 1 out of every 27 cruises. Obviously in your case you made out well, but odds are like that.

The insurance companies make money, so on average cruises are canceled LESS frequently than the above, otherwise company would not make money.

Insurance, statistically, is always a bad deal for the insured, in that the price of policy is based on chance of it being used, PLUS, profit for company. Thus is should only be purchased if the loss would be unsustainable. For example, if you wreck your car, you HAVE to have a new car to continue working etc, so unless you could afford to buy a new car for cash you have to have the insurance, even though it's a bad deal. A cruise does not meet this criterion.

Now if you think your individual chance of missing cruise is higher than average, and the price of the policy is the same for all, then it may be worth it. In my case I believe my chances of missing are less than average, so I do not purchase the insurance. If we miss cruise we'll just go next year, and over a lifetime I believe I'll come out ahead financially.

And BTW that's what's different about cruise insurance, as far as I know price of policy does not in any way reflect risk, unlike almost all other types of insurance, making it a particularly bad deal for those at low risk.

And again, it's probably worth it for emergency medical travel/ evacuation if you're not otherwise covered. Edited January 28, 2014 by DrD

[stones902]

[quote name='waterbug123']No, you said none of these things. My point was that I'll bet it would take about 2 seconds until pax who were offered this option began to feel entitled to EXACTLY what they had booked before... looking a gift horse in the mouth, so to speak. Pretty soon it wouldn't be seen as "wow, this is great, you can now rebook if you're sick and not lose out financially if you don't have insurance" and it would become something that is taken for granted. And at that point people's expectations change.[/quote]

I agree with you that there are passengers who would undoubtedly argue that they are entitled to similar accommodations, reimbursement for airfare / hotel, excursions, etc. I'm sure also that there are those who will argue that they booked a cruise during a certain time of year for work or school reasons. That is why if such a policy were to be enacted would have to clearly spell out the conditions and restrictions.

All this being said, there are folks always looking to take advantage of a policy because they can. I suppose the idea is that you want to give truly ill passengers a reason to agree not to board the ship (so others don't become sick) without making the program so generous that it encourages people to treat it as an insurance policy. If passengers expect 100% compensation then they need to ante up for the travel insurance. To me it just make sense for the cruise line. I can't imagine the cost to RCI not only in reimbursements for this mess but also bad publicity.

[cruzin lady]

We are very frequently cruisers, and we never sail without insurance. I often
plan travels for friends who go with us, but I include insurance in the trip cost.

We do not always use the same insurance company, and have had to file claims both for myself and for friends. I have never had a problem with getting the claims sent to the company, and have gotten paid promptly.

Cruzin Lady

[Bigtex1622]

QUESTION:

If you and a friend buy the insurance,
and they become ill and do not go.
Do you have to pay more money, if you want to go alone, ( single supplement )
or do both of you have to cancel?

[CENTER]:rolleyes:[/CENTER]

[ducklite]

[quote name='Bigtex1622']QUESTION:

If you and a friend buy the insurance,
and they become ill and do not go.
Do you have to pay more money, if you want to go alone, ( single supplement )
or do both of you have to cancel?

[CENTER]:rolleyes:[/CENTER][/QUOTE]


The travel companion of a friend was injured and unable to travel a few weeks before their cruise. She got a check for her lost cruise and airfare, he continued on without her. The ship already had their money for two, and didn't care if it were one or two occupying the cabin.


Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

[mcatmcat]

[quote name='Scotty G']Ditto!!!! If you can't afford the insurance then you really can't afford to cruise. Sorry but that is reality.



.[/QUOTE]

Oh wait now insurance jn added to the list lol
In 2013 I remember some people saying " if you can't afford to tip then you can't afford to cruise"
I guess for 2014 insurance is a mandate as well

There is nothing like cruise critic OP rules lol



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[Jtd724]

How bout just make insurance mandatory. Problem solved and everyone plays fair.


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[stones902]

[quote name='Jtd724']How bout just make insurance mandatory. Problem solved and everyone plays fair.


Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app[/QUOTE]


I don't see that happening. Cruise lines don't only compete against each other, they also compete against land based resorts and all inclusives. They want to keep their base prices competitive to attract your hard earned vacation dollars.

This is why cruise fares really haven't increased in years. Instead of raising the base fare, you are now getting nicked for things you received for free years ago.




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[Jtd724]

[quote name='stones902']I don't see that happening.[/QUOTE]

And neither do I in regards to a refund with no insurance. Edited January 29, 2014 by Jtd724

[shipshape sam]

[quote name='Vitality08']I was reading a USA Today article about the Explorer returning home 2 days early because of the Noro Virus outbreak.

There was a quote from a tourism manager/instructor (or something) from Pace University stating that 1) people bring Noro Virus with them when they board (which we knew) and 2) If people don't have insurance but are feeling ill, they don't want to cancel and lose their money.

I know many here buy and insurance and don't think it's fair for people who "self insure" to get refunds but it got me to thinking:

Should cruise lines offer some sort of last minute cancellation option for those who develop gastro intestinal issues 1 or 2 days before a sailing? Not a cash refund but maybe a credit for a future cruise. I think a policy like this may help in the long run to keep cruises free of people who know they are ill but just don't want to lose their money.

What do you guys think? This wouldn't be designed to take the place of purchasing insurance but more so give the cruise line some peace of mind that sick individuals won't purposely join the cruise.

I think it'd be a decent option for some and I of course think they person requesting the cancellation and credit should have to send in medical documentation. I kind of view it as a reward for being honest and thinking of others.[/QUOTE]

An interesting suggestion and my question would be what do they do with the questionnaire now that they ask at embarkation. When would they refuse passage? For sure, I think, they should provide a full refund/credit. I am sure though that it could be abused too.

[ducklite]

[quote name='shipshape sam']An interesting suggestion and my question would be what do they do with the questionnaire now that they ask at embarkation. When would they refuse passage? For sure, I think, they should provide a full refund/credit. I am sure though that it could be abused too.[/QUOTE]


There have been reports here and there if people answering truthfully and being denied boarding, and being told to take it up with the insurance. There was someone not too long ago who said they weren't sick but had a lot of symptoms, they were refused when the ships doctor determined they weren't fit to cruise. On the other hand, I also remember reading where one woman was having some terrible cold type symptoms and the doctor determined it was as she had told them, seasonal allergies, and allowed her to board.


Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

[boatclub1]

I would never book a cruise or land vacation without insurance !! My friend just went to a wedding in a Bahamas, landed, went to dinner and got a call from family that her father-in-law had passed. She and her husband needed to get back to the states immediately. Thankfully she had "trip insurance" and with a few documents to show, her and her husbands 6 night trip was fully refunded !! This is why I would never travel without trip insurance.
L~NY

[ducklite]

[quote name='boatclub1']I would never book a cruise or land vacation without insurance !! My friend just went to a wedding in a Bahamas, landed, went to dinner and got a call from family that her father-in-law had passed. She and her husband needed to get back to the states immediately. Thankfully she had "trip insurance" and with a few documents to show, her and her husbands 6 night trip was fully refunded !! This is why I would never travel without trip insurance.
L~NY[/QUOTE]


I think it depends. My husband and I drove cross country for our vacation last year. We didn't have insurance. We took my car, so my regular auto insurance covered that. We have health insurance. All hotels were "paid" with points, and we had under $750 of pre--paid things (tickets to a show in Vegas for example) that couldn't be used on a different date. In this case I can't see the point of trip insurance.

That said, we don't leave the US/Canada/PR without insurance. Our health insurance will cover us in Canada as out of network, so no big worries there.


Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

[Vitality08]

[quote name='shipshape sam']An interesting suggestion and my question would be what do they do with the questionnaire now that they ask at embarkation. When would they refuse passage? For sure, I think, they should provide a full refund/credit. I am sure though that it could be abused too.[/QUOTE]

I think all things run the risk of abuse. The scenario I imagined for this policy would be those who get sick within a day or two of sailing and contact the cruise company with medical documentation. From the sounds of things, it seems Noro Virus is not easily diagnosed and is usually based on the explanation of symptoms so I guess that could be easily feigned if someone was so inclined.

For those who arrive to the port and provide honest answers and are then denied boarding, I'm not sure. I'd be inclined to offer some sort of compensation for their honesty but on the flip side, I feel that by showing up, they've still put an untold number of passengers at risk which is what this policy would be designed to avoid.

I'm not sure this is feasible, I was just interested in opinions on the matter. I do think it could help cruise lines protect their bottom line. If you can get some sick individuals to voluntarily miss the cruise you may be able to avoid thousands in lost revenue not to mention what is being lost in the refunds and partial cruise credits.

Either way, it was good to have a discussion going on the issue.

[Vitality08]

[quote name='boatclub1']I would never book a cruise or land vacation without insurance !! My friend just went to a wedding in a Bahamas, landed, went to dinner and got a call from family that her father-in-law had passed. She and her husband needed to get back to the states immediately. Thankfully she had "trip insurance" and with a few documents to show, her and her husbands 6 night trip was fully refunded !! This is why I would never travel without trip insurance.
L~NY[/QUOTE]

I think it all depends on what you are trying to cover. Unexpected flights to return home could be very expensive and I'd be very glad to have that covered. If a death occurred before I left and all I did was choose to skip the trip, I'm not incurring any additional expenses so insurance becomes less necessary if you can accept the loss.

My question is this: In the situation you described, did you have to front the money to return home and was later reimbursed upon presentation of the receipts and death notification or did they pay for your flights up front?

[stones902]

I would ask those who say no accommodation for those who knowingly arrive sick without travel insurance if they are comfortable boarding the ship and sailing for a week with that person despite the risk of spreading the illness? I guarantee there are many people who would still board rather than jeopardize their vacation as selfish as that is.


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[ahecht]

Southwest Airlines has an unofficial policy that if you miss your flight but show up at the airport within two hours they will book you on a later flight at no charge (even though a last minute flight is usually very expensive), even if you have a cheap fare that doesn't allow you to go standby on a different flight. It's called the "flat tire rule".

I could see Royal doing something similar -- if you check "yes" and their doctors determine that you aren't okay to cruise, the pier staff will try to transfer your reservation to another cruise, but the normal cancellation policies still apply.

[Beachdude]

[quote name='stones902']I don't see that happening. Cruise lines don't only compete against each other, they also compete against land based resorts and all inclusives. They want to keep their base prices competitive to attract your hard earned vacation dollars.

This is why cruise fares really haven't increased in years. Instead of raising the base fare, you are now getting nicked for things you received for free years ago.
[/QUOTE]

I agree, while we typically cruise twice a year, its only because it is one of the most affordable ways to do an exotic vacation. I am constantly comparing a rent house in Hawaii to a cruise. Usually the cruise wins out, but adding the cost of insurance could change our cruising habits to once a year, or even once every two years.

Burt