Formal Dining Questions

[LMaxwell]

It's true that these are "suggested" dress.

 

I am glad we both understand and agree as to the objective facts that the OP asked about. Thank you for bolstering my clarification that these are not requirements.

[LMaxwell]

Ballcaps, don't forget no ball caps - forwards or backwards! ;)

 

 

Nope, those two "suggestions" are completely equivalent, if one is selfish, the other is equally so.

 

NO BALLCAPS! :D

 

As to the second part, they are NOT equivalent. Suggesting Cunard for someone who revels in being elegant, regal, debonaire, old school, looking "the part", feeling ritzy, looking for tradition and quiet civility is an EXCELLENT and helpful suggestion. This is a suggestion that speaks to their values and ideals and offers options which may best suit what they want. If formal dining is an important part of your vacation experience it is not rude to suggest going somewhere that focuses on just such an experience

 

Conversely, telling people to go someplace else if they don't dress up, when it truly is NOT required, is selfishly wanting to control your surroundings on a city as sea and it just is not possible. You not only have no right to tell others to eat elsewhere, but if you are that bothered by not having control then you are setting yourself up for potentially an unpleasant experience. Not wanting to wear a tuxedo does not mean one should be forced to bypass a banquet meal they have paid for and go to the buffet or be forced to spend more money for a specialty dining option.

 

You seem like a reasonably intelligent person and so I would think you can see the difference.

[LetsGetWet!]

NO BALLCAPS! :D

 

As to the second part, they are NOT equivalent. Suggesting Cunard for someone who revels in being elegant, regal, debonaire, old school, looking "the part", feeling ritzy, looking for tradition and quiet civility is an EXCELLENT and helpful suggestion. This is a suggestion that speaks to their values and ideals and offers options which may best suit what they want. If formal dining is an important part of your vacation experience it is not rude to suggest going somewhere that focuses on just such an experience

 

Conversely, telling people to go someplace else if they don't dress up, when it truly is NOT required, is selfishly wanting to control your surroundings on a city as sea and it just is not possible. You not only have no right to tell others to eat elsewhere, but if you are that bothered by not having control then you are setting yourself up for potentially an unpleasant experience. Not wanting to wear a tuxedo does not mean one should be forced to bypass a banquet meal they have paid for and go to the buffet or be forced to spend more money for a specialty dining option.

 

You seem like a reasonably intelligent person and so I would think you can see the difference.

They are ABSOLUTELY the same, the only difference is that you agree with one and disagree with the other, and that's not grounds for labeling one more selfish than the other.

 

One suggests that cruisers switch to the most formal cruise line should they prefer cruisers to follow RCI's suggested formal night attire.

 

The other suggests that cruisers switch to the least formal cruise line should they wish to totally ignore RCI's suggested formal night attire.

 

OK, maybe you're right - the former is more selfish. ;)

[LMaxwell]

One suggests that cruisers switch to the most formal cruise line should they prefer cruisers to follow RCI's suggested formal night attire.

 

The other suggests that cruisers switch to the least formal cruise line should they wish to totally ignore RCI's suggested formal night attire.

 

Neither of those are what I said. You are taking creative license with my words and substituting your own subtly different words and meanings to somehow imply that that is what I endorse.

 

Actually what I suggest is that if you meet the rules of the MDR aboard any Royal Caribbean ship that you go and enjoy the banquet style dinner you have paid for; which is pretty much how I answered the OP's original question without further subjective input.

[LetsGetWet!]

Neither of those are what I said. You are taking creative license with my words and substituting your own subtly different words and meanings to somehow imply that that is what I endorse.

 

Actually what I suggest is that if you meet the rules of the MDR aboard any Royal Caribbean ship that you go and enjoy the banquet style dinner you have paid for; which is pretty much how I answered the OP's original question without further subjective input.

Haha, talk about taking creative license with words! If that was truly all that you had said, then there would have been no mention of "Cunard" from you, now would there? :rolleyes:

[AmyWrites]

You don't have to dress up. I went in a sundress or a more business casual type of dress, husband went in dark jeans and a button down shirt.

 

I was much more disturbed by how loud the MDR is rather than anyone's clothing.

[SamFritz]

I am glad we both understand and agree as to the objective facts that the OP asked about. Thank you for bolstering my clarification that these are not requirements.

 

They may not be requirements, but they are courtesies.

[LMaxwell]

Haha, talk about taking creative license with words! If that was truly all that you had said, then there would have been no mention of "Cunard" from you, now would there? :rolleyes:

 

Please refer back to my original reply. I simply stated facts for the benefit of OP because others were trying to muddy the subject by injecting opinions that really didn't answer the questions.

 

The absolute bottom line is that no matter what your opinion or how you personally feel about dressing up, as long as OP meets the LOWER bar for the rules they are fully entitled to be served dinner in the MDR which is included in their cruise fare.

[LMaxwell]

They may not be requirements, but they are courtesies.

 

I agree with you. They are courtesies. Unfortunately, a courtesy is not something someone else can regulate.

[LetsGetWet!]

They may not be requirements, but they are courtesies.

Yep, and as some have pointed out, "times are changing" - unfortunately, being courteous seems to be becoming less and less common.

[papaflamingo]

Thanks Letsgetwet... glad others feel the same.

LMaxwell, suggesting (which I didn't) that someone eats in the WJ if they don't want to get formally dressed is not at all selfish. In fact it is a reasonable option. If you want to eat in shorts, or a bathing suit, the WJ is available. Why is that selfish? When you go to a 5 star restaurant and they have a dress code, i.e. coat and tie, do you tell them no, it's your night out and you'll dress as you want? No, you put on a coat and tie or go somewhere else. The "somewhere else" on the ship is the WJ. However RCCL has decided that it is not a "dress code," but "suggested attire." That is their choice, it's their ship. There was a time when it was more of a "dress code," and they turned people away. But like you said, it's only suggested. The no smoking on balconies is, however, NOT a suggestion, but a hard and fast rule. At the risk of a whole new discussion, the smokers also use the "it's my vacation" excuse. Do you support their perceived "right" to violate the rules? Or should they honor the agreement in the Cruise Contract?

[LMaxwell]

If you want to eat in shorts, or a bathing suit, the WJ is available. Why is that selfish?

 

That is NOT selfish. Shorts and bathing suit don't meet the MINIMUM bar of rules for the MDR, so regardless if it is formal night or not, you would not be permitted in the MDR. In that case the Windjammer is an entirely reasonable alternative suggestion.

 

But if you do meet the minimum rules of the MDR you will be served regardless of the suggested dress guideline for that evening. You only need meet the lower bar, there is no upper bar.

 

When you go to a 5 star restaurant and they have a dress code, i.e. coat and tie, do you tell them no, it's your night out and you'll dress as you want? No, you put on a coat and tie or go somewhere else.

 

That's absolutely 100% correct! If there is a dress CODE I would be expected to comply to be served. I don't walk in to establishments, knowing the rules, and tell them to hell with your rules, make it MY way. That's not how the world works.

 

However RCCL has decided that it is not a "dress code," but "suggested attire." That is their choice, it's their ship.

 

Agreed 100% as well. It is suggested attire. You enjoy it. You do not feel the clothing is a burden to travel with. You derive intangible pleasure from formal night. I personally think that is great. Good for you. But since it is NOT a requirement, you can't expect everyone else to act just like you do.

 

There was a time when it was more of a "dress code," and they turned people away.

 

They also used to have main and second seating for breakfast and for lunch. Then eventually open breakfast and main and second seating for lunch. I remember when they used to shut the main dining room doors and if you were late TOO BAD. My Time Dining wasn't even conceived of. But that's not what RCI does anymore. It just simply isn't the style of product they offer.

 

The no smoking on balconies is, however, NOT a suggestion, but a hard and fast rule. At the risk of a whole new discussion, the smokers also use the "it's my vacation" excuse. Do you support their perceived "right" to violate the rules? Or should they honor the agreement in the Cruise Contract?

 

Absolutely not. I do not perceive they have the "right". The ship, as you state, is private property of RCI, therefore smoking is a privilege, not a right. I 100% do NOT support the "it's my vacation" excuse for people to violate rules, especially ones that pertain to HEALTH and SAFETY; neither of which evening dress does. Smoking is both a valid safety concern and well established health risk. The minimum bar of the rules in this case is to not smoke on the balcony, period.

 

Here is the difference. You booked a cruise so you could dress up and enjoy yourself. But the dressing up is a suggestion. If the MDR allowed people in, on any night, in shorts, flip flops, baseball caps, etc., I would be on your side of the argument stating they should not be allowed.

 

Conversely, if I book a balcony cabin, RCI is telling me that I have the expectation of a cigarette smoke free zone because it is against the rules to smoke on a balcony. It is not a suggestion such as "for the benefit of other guests please limit smoking to no more than 4 per day and only if no neighbors are outside". Therefore I have every right to enjoy the clean air on the balcony I paid for. You did not pay for a cruise experience that looks to reasonably ensure you a formal experience, just that people won't be walking into MDR right off the pool deck. Big difference.

[A2Mich]

[Q UOTE=SamFritz;41616785]"It always astounds me when folks say the cruise is less enjoyable because of someone else's behavior, be it dress code at dining or anything else. If your vacation is less enjoyable because of others behavior then you're better off , IMHO, staying at a place you can completely control, like a vacation rental.

 

We're certainly not the most seasoned cruisers, D level on RCI, but we have cruised a bit and "formal" night on RCI has certainly changed since we started. We did the tux thing in the beginning but now just don't do that anymore.

 

To suggest to others where they should dine and limit their vacation experience because it bothers you, because of a "suggested" dress code, to me is a little too much. On the last 2 cruises we did, I'd say at least 20% dressed smart casual for formal nights.

 

And, BTW, the first time we decided not to dress formal on formal night, we informed our waitress we wouldn't be dining in the MDR that evening because of the dress code. She was ADAMANT we come to the MDR and eat. She told us that she truly enjoys her job and also enjoys sharing the experiences of the day with us. Also everyone at the table said the same thing. Of a table of 10, 2 couples did not "dress up" but wore nice pants and collared shirts and nice dress for the ladies. It didn't ruin or bring down anyone's experience and certainly did not minimize the effort the staff puts in to make every night special"

 

We are obviously coming from two different perspectives, and will not come to any agreement here.

 

To be clear, I did not use the words "ruin, less enjoyable, or bothers" in my post. What I said is that the Royal Caribbean, and your fellow passengers are trying to create a certain environment and that your lack of participation in that effort takes something away from their effort. You have the right to do that, but why would you? Your answer is, "It's my vacation." What you fail to recognize in that statement is that is also "their" vacation.

 

Rather than me going to a vacation rental, perhaps you should. After all, you are the one who is resisting the plan in which most of us are quite happy to participate.

 

I'm sure that you didn't "ruin" anyone's vacation, but you can not say that you didn't "bring it down." You don't know that for some couple who has waited a lifetime for one special trip, that the formal night, with all its trappings, might be a memory of a lifetime. And then in the background of their photo is someone who is just not playing along. Not ruined, but less than it might have been.

 

 

I used to be bothered by things like that, but not anymore. Life is unfortunately full of disappointments. Not everyone does what I want them too either. I just don't let it bother me anymore. I only dress up for weddings and funerals anymore. That's my choice. If someone wants to wear a tux on formal night, good for them. I'm not dressing up to the nines to make them happy so they can feel more special or more important I will still be dressed decently and within what is considered acceptable. If the ultra formats don't like it, well, not sure what to tell them other than to worry about themselves and not everyone else.

 

 

 

 

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[seb]

"It always astounds me when folks say the cruise is less enjoyable because of someone else's behavior, be it dress code at dining or anything else. If your vacation is less enjoyable because of others behavior then you're better off , IMHO, staying at a place you can completely control, like a vacation rental.

 

We're certainly not the most seasoned cruisers, D level on RCI, but we have cruised a bit and "formal" night on RCI has certainly changed since we started. We did the tux thing in the beginning but now just don't do that anymore.

 

To suggest to others where they should dine and limit their vacation experience because it bothers you, because of a "suggested" dress code, to me is a little too much. On the last 2 cruises we did, I'd say at least 20% dressed smart casual for formal nights.

 

And, BTW, the first time we decided not to dress formal on formal night, we informed our waitress we wouldn't be dining in the MDR that evening because of the dress code. She was ADAMANT we come to the MDR and eat. She told us that she truly enjoys her job and also enjoys sharing the experiences of the day with us. Also everyone at the table said the same thing. Of a table of 10, 2 couples did not "dress up" but wore nice pants and collared shirts and nice dress for the ladies. It didn't ruin or bring down anyone's experience and certainly did not minimize the effort the staff puts in to make every night special"

 

We are obviously coming from two different perspectives, and will not come to any agreement here.

 

To be clear, I did not use the words "ruin, less enjoyable, or bothers" in my post. What I said is that the Royal Caribbean, and your fellow passengers are trying to create a certain environment and that your lack of participation in that effort takes something away from their effort. You have the right to do that, but why would you? Your answer is, "It's my vacation." What you fail to recognize in that statement is that is also "their" vacation.

 

Rather than me going to a vacation rental, perhaps you should. After all, you are the one who is resisting the plan in which most of us are quite happy to participate.

 

I'm sure that you didn't "ruin" anyone's vacation, but you can not say that you didn't "bring it down." You don't know that for some couple who has waited a lifetime for one special trip, that the formal night, with all its trappings, might be a memory of a lifetime. And then in the background of their photo is someone who is just not playing along. Not ruined, but less than it might have been.

 

Sam, you're right, we won't come to an agreement. I'm good with that. But I'm not the one who told someone where to go and dine if they didn't want to be part of the "plan". You did, and yes that arrogance does astound me. Also, go back and look at your quotes you put in your comment. Not quite sure your accurate with those either :(.

 

BTW, we do vacation rentals 3x a year as well as cruising, thanks for asking :). I didn't "fail to recognize" it's others vacation. What I did do was point out to you that if you want a vacation in which others won't interfere with your perceptions of what something should be, a vacation rental is a better choice than a cruise ship with 5,000+ people on it.

[PSCruiser]

While DW and I enjoy going the dress up route, what amuses me is that the clothes I would grab to head to the supermarket would be perfectly acceptable in the MDR - how tough can it be to grab some Dockers and a polo shirt and throw them in a suitcase???

[papaflamingo]

LMaxwell, we agree on much. My comment to you was that the "suggestion" that those who don't want to dress for formal night eat at the WJ was "selfish," was just simply that it was no more "selfish" than suggesting those who do want to dress go on Cunard. In fact, my point is that the WJ is an alternative. But here's the deal.... for some reason these posts keep popping up. They are usually started with something like "How Formal is Formal night?" Well, "Formal Night" means "Formal." It isn't a confusing term, the suggested attire is clearly delineated. So why the question? Well.... people want "justification" to not dress up. Why is that? Truth be told, I really don't care. I hate to see the end of tradition. I suspect that in the not too distant future "Formal Night" will be gone. I hate to see that. I hate that we have become a selfish "it's about me" society. But that's me.

[LetsGetWet!]

papaflamingo, I find it interesting - and somewhat frustrating - that both of RCCL's sister lines - Celebrity and Azamara - are much more definitive than RCCL in their written dress codes. Neither use the word "suggested", which is the single word that all the "I don't want to dress up and I don't have to" crowd hang their hat on. Azamara, in particular - although they are much less formal than RCCL, and have NO "formal nights", specifically forbid jeans, among a number of items, for dinner any time in the MDR.

[jbond]

I suspect that in the not too distant future "Formal Night" will be gone. I hate to see that.

I doubt it. For one, there are far too many people participate. Secondly, if you checkout the lines waiting for photos, the vast majority are dressed up. Too big of a money maker to throw away.

[Mich455]

In defence of the OP I think this is a fair question to ask. As RCCL state it's a 'suggested dress code' if you haven't cruised with RCCL before then of course you want to get some kind of idea of what percentage of the people dress up. I would say on my RCCL cruises it's about 70% of people onboard and of those that do dress up probably about 20% go the tux/evening dress route and the rest suits and cocktail dresses. You won't feel out of place if you stay casual. Personally I like to take the chance to really dress up (I don't think this make me a 'cruise snob', 'old school' or whatever) I'm not particularly upset by those who prefer to stay casual either (I don't think this makes you 'selfish', a 'slob' or whatever). We're all on holiday and we're all entitled to enjoy that holiday.