Service Charges on NCL

[cruisin07family]

[quote name='SeaShark']Nobody denies that the service charge is discretionary. Its just that we realize that it means it is distributed at NCL's discretion (see NCL FAQ page) and not that it is paid at the discretion of the guest. If the latter were true, then it would be totally optional....like trip insurance.[/QUOTE]

:) I agree with this explanation. This is how I interpret DSC as well. We only cruised once before the auto DSC started being added. I thought it was a huge hassle to have cash and then try to hunt down those who I thought I should tip. It also seemed like many cruisers avoided the MDR on the last night to avoid tipping as the DR was only half full. Of course, that is my assumption as to why the DR was only half full, before someone is sure to point it out.

[time2cruise1]

I managed to stay out of this discussion for 476 posts. The simple answer why we all need to leave the DSC in place is without it there would be no Freestyle. Freestyle almost failed before it really got started before the DSC. It is not about what makes us happy but what makes sure the crew makes enough money to stay with Ncl.

[Ewoodspark]

[quote name='DMH15']Gee, when I travelled to your lovely country I learned of your customs beforehand.

Would you travel to the U.S. And dine in a restaurant and not leave a tip? Just wondering.[/quote]
I have been to the USA on numerous holidays and dined in many restaurants. If I felt the service warranted a tip, then one was left. If I felt that the service was not good then no tip was ever left. To expect tips of 15%-20% is also an outrage. However, I digress as this thread is about discretionary service charges and not about tipping in restaurants

[nana541]

[quote name='Ewoodspark']I have been to the USA on numerous holidays and dined in many restaurants. If I felt the service warranted a tip, then one was left. If I felt that the service was not good then no tip was ever left. To expect tips of 15%-20% is also an outrage. However, I digress as this thread is about discretionary service charges and not about tipping in restaurants[/QUOTE]


Did you realize that in the US wait servers don't even make minimum wage.... That 15% tip you "stiffed" your server IS part of their extremely low wages.
When visiting other countries please familiarize yourself with the local customs!



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[sjbdtz]

[quote name='time2cruise1']I managed to stay out of this discussion for 476 posts. The simple answer why we all need to leave the DSC in place is without it there would be no Freestyle. Freestyle almost failed before it really got started before the DSC. It is not about what makes us happy but what makes sure the crew makes enough money to stay with Ncl.[/quote]


Thanks Jim. Nice & succinct.


.

[mjkacmom]

Did you realize that in the US wait servers don't even make minimum wage.... That 15% tip you "stiffed" your server IS part of their extremely low wages.

When visiting other countries please familiarize yourself with the local customs!

 

 

 

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This is very true - servers are even taxed on the tips it is assumed they received. Federal law mandates that they are paid at least $2.13 an hour...

[Ewoodspark]

Did you realize that in the US wait servers don't even make minimum wage.... That 15% tip you "stiffed" your server IS part of their extremely low wages.

When visiting other countries please familiarize yourself with the local customs!

 

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Am I bothered that American businesses cannot pay their staff properly? NO. What is this word "STIFFED"? Why should I familarise myself with local customs? If I am on holiday I will do what I want.

[nana541]

Am I bothered that American businesses cannot pay their staff properly? NO. What is this word "STIFFED"? Why should I familarise myself with local customs? If I am on holiday I will do what I want.

 

 

Stiffed = Cheap (cheated)

 

 

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Edited April 21, 2014 by nana541

[Ewoodspark]

Stiffed = Cheap (cheated)

 

 

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CHEATED??? You are very insulting and should think about what you are saying. If I choose not to leave a tip in an American restaurant, then that is my choice. It is not mandatory. If the service has been OK then a tip would be left but certainly not 15% or 20%.

[time2cruise1]

CHEATED??? You are very insulting and should think about what you are saying. If I choose not to leave a tip in an American restaurant, then that is my choice. It is not mandatory. If the service has been OK then a tip would be left but certainly not 15% or 20%.

 

 

It is not mandatory just customary. The restaurant will assume a 15% tip on your bill for tax reporting of your server. That translates into it costing them money to wait on you. [emoji26]

 

 

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[Ewoodspark]

It is not mandatory just customary. The restaurant will assume a 15% tip on your bill for tax reporting of your server. That translates into it costing them money to wait on you. [emoji26]

 

 

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Then any restaurant would be stupid. Why the hell could they assume a 15% tip ? They may get 10% or rounding up to a straight amount if I thought it was earned. If I go into a restaurant for food and/or drinks then I would expect it to be brought to my table as I would be paying for the food/drinks. How else could it be served unless it was self service. The idea of expecting 15% or even 20% tip needs adjustment

[nana541]

CHEATED??? You are very insulting and should think about what you are saying. If I choose not to leave a tip in an American restaurant, then that is my choice. It is not mandatory. If the service has been OK then a tip would be left but certainly not 15% or 20%.

 

 

Just "google" the definition!

 

The little gal who waited on you (in the US) and served your $12 pancake breakfast makes something less than $3 an hour. The US Govt (IRS) in their infinite wisdom assumes that every customer tips at a rate of 15% and automatically taxes her based on that assumption.

Is this fair to anyone? No it's not, but sadly that little gal has no control over the system and wait servers in this country are paid in this manner.

That waitress in most cases also likely shares a portion of that $1.80 (15% of $12) with the Bus Boy.

 

So in this country (maybe not yours) we realize these hard workers make next to nothing and understand that unless service was really really awful you leave at least 15%.

 

Failure to do so is referred as "stiffing" your waiter, also known as "failure to leave a proper tip" and ask most people what is thought of folks who feel they don't need to leave a proper tip.....

 

I do wish the system was not this way, I think workers in this industry and the workers on cruise ships that are paid thru tips alone is just plain wrong.

 

But do leave a couple bucks to your waitress, she works really hard for the little she gets and has no control over how the system works!

 

Sorry if you felt insulted, you just needed the whole story. Like you I work very hard for my money and am not always happy about how this system works.

 

 

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[Beaver1975]

Am I bothered that American businesses cannot pay their staff properly? NO. What is this word "STIFFED"? Why should I familarise myself with local customs? If I am on holiday I will do what I want.

 

Wow, and we are called Ugly Americans when we travel and do not follow the customs of countries we are visiting.

[nana541]

Then any restaurant would be stupid. Why the hell could they assume a 15% tip ? They may get 10% or rounding up to a straight amount if I thought it was earned. If I go into a restaurant for food and/or drinks then I would expect it to be brought to my table as I would be paying for the food/drinks. How else could it be served unless it was self service. The idea of expecting 15% or even 20% tip needs adjustment

 

 

The "government/IRS" is who assumes the 15% for taxing purposes. In their stupidity they seem to think servers are living rich and the taxing authorities want to make sure they "don't get stiffed" :) out of what is due them...

Even the restaurants don't have control of this.... I am not an accountant and there is certainly more to this whole issue in the taxing regulations. I've just simplified it to discuss the whole issue which is not fair to anyone, the waiter or the people they wait on.

 

 

 

 

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[DMH15]

Then any restaurant would be stupid. Why the hell could they assume a 15% tip ? They may get 10% or rounding up to a straight amount if I thought it was earned. If I go into a restaurant for food and/or drinks then I would expect it to be brought to my table as I would be paying for the food/drinks. How else could it be served unless it was self service. The idea of expecting 15% or even 20% tip needs adjustment

 

 

Yeah. Come on over and rent a car. Forget about our customs. Drive on the left side of the road. And as AMERICAN Dr Phil would say "How's that workin' for ya?"

 

 

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[DMH15]

Just "google" the definition!

 

The little gal who waited on you (in the US) and served your $12 pancake breakfast makes something less than $3 an hour. The US Govt (IRS) in their infinite wisdom assumes that every customer tips at a rate of 15% and automatically taxes her based on that assumption.

Is this fair to anyone? No it's not, but sadly that little gal has no control over the system and wait servers in this country are paid in this manner.

That waitress in most cases also likely shares a portion of that $1.80 (15% of $12) with the Bus Boy.

 

So in this country (maybe not yours) we realize these hard workers make next to nothing and understand that unless service was really really awful you leave at least 15%.

 

Failure to do so is referred as "stiffing" your waiter, also known as "failure to leave a proper tip" and ask most people what is thought of folks who feel they don't need to leave a proper tip.....

 

I do wish the system was not this way, I think workers in this industry and the workers on cruise ships that are paid thru tips alone is just plain wrong.

 

But do leave a couple bucks to your waitress, she works really hard for the little she gets and has no control over how the system works!

 

Sorry if you felt insulted, you just needed the whole story. Like you I work very hard for my money and am not always happy about how this system works.

 

 

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Those $12 pancakes in UK or Australia would cost $15.

 

 

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[nana541]

I think that every country has many customs and practices that visitors are unfamiliar with. Or with the custom of "tipping" as practiced in the US do not have the full understanding of why it is such an ingrained way of "dining out" in our country.

I would bet that Americans and other travelers to countries in Europe make plenty of "unfortunate" mistakes. I'm betting that in the UK wait servers are paid based on a different scale so that Tips are not expected.

 

Every country has their own unique customs and as visitors we need to attempt to learn those customs and respect them.

 

 

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[j-9]

All this discussion about following the custom of the land you are visiting and US vs European, vs Canadian etc is actually irrelevant. The NCL ship you are on is (in all cases but 1), a Bahamian flagged ship, frequently cruising anywhere but the USA! There is no single country norm that can be identified and that needs to be followed. For example, why on earth would someone from Europe or the UK taking a cruise on the Jade stop to think about US tipping customs?

 

What does need to be followed as the norm, is the standard that has been established for the particular cruise (little floating country) that you are on. Some cruise lines include the staff compensation in the fare, and tell you no tips required (and truly mean it). Some cruise lines tell you a service charge is expected and add it to your account. Some cruise lines tell you tips are appreciated and recommend an amount.

I think the bottom line is to understand the norm of the cruise line you are selecting and the implication on your total financial commitment, and be respectful of it.

[Traveller20074]

Boy...lots of folks quoting the international sites today.

 

First of all, the service charge is never defined as "optional"...as in "you can pay it if you feel like it." That said, we shouldn't fixate on "discretionary" as that word also doesn't mean "optional". It means "with discretion". Whose discretion you ask? Well, since a service charge is the property of the employer, it would be at the discretion of that employer.

Q. Is a mandatory service charge considered to be the same as a tip or gratuity?

 

A. No, a tip is a voluntary amount left by a patron for an employee. A mandatory service charge is an amount that a patron is required to pay based on a contractual agreement or a specified required service amount listed on the menu of an establishment. An example of a mandatory service charge that is a contractual agreement would be a 10 or 15 percent charge added to the cost of a banquet. Such charges are considered as amounts owed by the patron to the establishment and are not gratuities voluntarily left for the employees. Therefore, when an employer distributes all or part of a service charge to its employees, the distribution may be at the

discretion of the employer

and the service charge, which would be in the nature of a bonus, would be included in the regular rate of pay when calculating overtime payments.

- - - > A service charge belongs to the employer. The employer gets to determine how it is distributed. ("discretion of the employer") THIS is what the "discretionary" in DSC refers to.

 

 

 

as I stated in post #397....every cruiseline that I could find other than NCL made it pretty clear the service charge IS a tip. Gratuity=tip

 

 

 

April 14th, 2014, 09:39 AM

Traveller20074

Cool Cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 1,617

 

 

here's Carnival's policy

 

 

 

Frequently Asked Questions

What is the tipping policy onboard?

Service Gratuities

For your convenience, we automatically charge the gratuities for dining and stateroom staff to your onboard Sail & Sign account. The total amount is $10.00 per guest, per day (our recommended guideline) as follows:

$ 3.50 Per Day Stateroom Services

$ 5.50 Per Day Dining Room Services

$ 1.00 Per Day Alternative Services: distributed to other kitchen and hotel service staff

For Cruises-To-Nowhere, gratuities of $10 per guest, per day must be prepaid.

Our Staff is totally committed to exceed your expectations in every way possible. If you are not satisfied with the service you receive, we encourage you to contact the Guest Services desk while onboard. This will allow us to address your concerns in a timely and appropriate fashion. At your discretion, you may adjust the gratuities at any time while onboard. Gratuities will be deemed undisputed unless a request to modify is received prior to disembarking the ship.

For beverage purchases, fifteen percent of the bill is automatically added to the Sail & Sign charge. Room Service staff may be tipped as service is rendered. Tipping your Maître d’ is at your discretion, based upon the service you receive.

NOTE: BARBADOS CRUISES

All gratuities are pre-paid and automatically added during the booking process for Barbados itineraries.

 

 

here's Oceana's policy.

 

funny how vague NCL is on this "service charge" thing on their website. Everyone else calls it a tip, from what I can tell.

 

How much you choose to tip is a personal matter and completely at your discretion. For your convenience, gratuities of $12.50 per guest, per day are automatically added to your shipboard account. An additional $4.00 per guest, per day will be added for guests occupying Penthouse, Vista or Owner's Suites where Butler Service is provided. Naturally, guests may adjust gratuities at their sole discretion.

 

 

Here's Princess

 

 

During your cruise, you will meet staff throughout the ship who provide you with excellent service. Many more crew support those who serve you directly. To save you the worry of who to tip and how much, Princess makes it easier for you to reward excellent service by automatically adding a discretionary Hotel and Dining charge of $11 USD for suites and mini-suites and $10.50 USD for all other staterooms per person per day (including children) to your shipboard account on a daily basis. This charge will be shared amongst those staff who help provide and support your cruise experience, including the wait staff, stateroom stewards, buffet stewards, galley staff, laundry staff and others. Casino dealers and Lotus Spa personnel do not share in the Hotel and Dining charge as not all passengers utilize these services.

 

 

Royal Caribbean

 

 

As of March 1, 2013, Royal Caribbean will automatically add a $12.00 USD gratuity ($14.25 USD for Suite guests) to each guest’s onboard SeaPass® account on a daily basis. This gratuity is shared by Dining Services staff, stateroom Attendants other Housekeeping Services Personnel that work to enhance your cruise. The daily automatic gratuity amounts are recommended and are based on customary industry standards

 

 

 

 

gra·tu·i·ty

 

 

/grəˈt(y)o͞oitē/

 

 

noun

 

noun: gratuity; plural noun: gratuities

 

 

 

1.

 

 

 

a tip given to a waiter, taxicab driver, etc.

__________________

[njhorseman]

as I stated in post #397....every cruiseline that I could find other than NCL made it pretty clear the service charge IS a tip. Gratuity=tip

 

 

 

April 14th, 2014, 09:39 AM

Traveller20074

Cool Cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 1,617

 

 

here's Carnival's policy

 

 

 

Frequently Asked Questions

What is the tipping policy onboard?

Service Gratuities

For your convenience, we automatically charge the gratuities for dining and stateroom staff to your onboard Sail & Sign account. The total amount is $10.00 per guest, per day (our recommended guideline) as follows:

$ 3.50 Per Day Stateroom Services

$ 5.50 Per Day Dining Room Services

$ 1.00 Per Day Alternative Services: distributed to other kitchen and hotel service staff

For Cruises-To-Nowhere, gratuities of $10 per guest, per day must be prepaid.

Our Staff is totally committed to exceed your expectations in every way possible. If you are not satisfied with the service you receive, we encourage you to contact the Guest Services desk while onboard. This will allow us to address your concerns in a timely and appropriate fashion. At your discretion, you may adjust the gratuities at any time while onboard. Gratuities will be deemed undisputed unless a request to modify is received prior to disembarking the ship.

For beverage purchases, fifteen percent of the bill is automatically added to the Sail & Sign charge. Room Service staff may be tipped as service is rendered. Tipping your Maître d’ is at your discretion, based upon the service you receive.

NOTE: BARBADOS CRUISES

All gratuities are pre-paid and automatically added during the booking process for Barbados itineraries.

 

 

here's Oceana's policy.

 

funny how vague NCL is on this "service charge" thing on their website. Everyone else calls it a tip, from what I can tell.

 

How much you choose to tip is a personal matter and completely at your discretion. For your convenience, gratuities of $12.50 per guest, per day are automatically added to your shipboard account. An additional $4.00 per guest, per day will be added for guests occupying Penthouse, Vista or Owner's Suites where Butler Service is provided. Naturally, guests may adjust gratuities at their sole discretion.

 

 

Here's Princess

 

 

During your cruise, you will meet staff throughout the ship who provide you with excellent service. Many more crew support those who serve you directly. To save you the worry of who to tip and how much, Princess makes it easier for you to reward excellent service by automatically adding a discretionary Hotel and Dining charge of $11 USD for suites and mini-suites and $10.50 USD for all other staterooms per person per day (including children) to your shipboard account on a daily basis. This charge will be shared amongst those staff who help provide and support your cruise experience, including the wait staff, stateroom stewards, buffet stewards, galley staff, laundry staff and others. Casino dealers and Lotus Spa personnel do not share in the Hotel and Dining charge as not all passengers utilize these services.

 

 

Royal Caribbean

 

 

As of March 1, 2013, Royal Caribbean will automatically add a $12.00 USD gratuity ($14.25 USD for Suite guests) to each guest’s onboard SeaPass® account on a daily basis. This gratuity is shared by Dining Services staff, stateroom Attendants other Housekeeping Services Personnel that work to enhance your cruise. The daily automatic gratuity amounts are recommended and are based on customary industry standards

 

 

 

 

gra·tu·i·ty

 

 

/grəˈt(y)o͞oitē/

 

 

noun

 

noun: gratuity; plural noun: gratuities

 

 

 

1.

 

 

 

a tip given to a waiter, taxicab driver, etc.

__________________

 

It doesn't matter what any other cruise calls it or how they handle. NCL's written policy clearly distinguishes the service charge from tips (gratuities)...that's why NCL has separate FAQs for the service charge and tipping.

 

Your post is no more correct or relevant today than it was when you originally made it.

[isdoo]

So what do you call the 15% add-on for drinks or 18% spa?

 

This is auto-added, which according to another post can't be a tip as they are never auto-added.

[nana541]

So what do you call the 15% add-on for drinks or 18% spa?

 

This is auto-added, which according to another post can't be a tip as they are never auto-added.

 

 

No matter what you call it on a cruise ship it is required....don't like it but can't change it!

Guess you would call those "required service charges".

 

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Edited April 21, 2014 by nana541

[isdoo]

No matter what you call it on a cruise ship it is required....don't like it but can't change it!

Guess you would call those "required service charges".

 

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Indeed :)

 

But NCL call it a gratuity.

 

Therefore why do folks insist the service charge is not a tip.

 

Can't have it both ways :)

 

Not having a go at you nana541 :)

[kylenyc]

So what do you call the 15% add-on for drinks or 18% spa?

 

This is auto-added, which according to another post can't be a tip as they are never auto-added. **Wrong**

The person who said that is wrong.

 

1) Whether or not other cruiselines use auto-gratuities/tips or service charges has no bearing on the fact that NCL uses the service charge system to compensate restaurant, housekeeping, and other "support staff", and employee welfare and incentive programs. NCL also uses the 15% auto-added gratuities/tips for bartenders.

 

2) A tip/gratuity is not the same as as a service charge.

 

A tip/gratuity is 100% paid out from the customer to the employee(s). The employer doesn't withhold any portion of it.

 

A service charge is paid to the employer (NCL), and it is the employer who decides how to distribute it (Example: some portion paid to the employee, some for "employee welfare programs"). For example, the more compliments and more Vacation Hero cards they get, NCL can elect to pay the individual more, and crew be award internet time etc. (I'm just speculating here).

 

3) Regardless of whether you "believe" it is gratuity/tip or service charge (versus the fact that it is a service charge), the service charge is part of employee compensation for many of the ships staff (waiters, housekeeping, support staff). Reducing the service charge affects many people and not just the waiters or steward that you directly interact with.

 

4) The service charge that may be adjusted at your discretion. It is a discretionary service charge. It can be adjusted. It is an adjustable service charge. It is an adjustable discretionary service charge...:rolleyes:

Edited April 21, 2014 by kylenyc

[SeaShark]

Indeed :)

 

But NCL call it a gratuity.

 

Therefore why do folks insist the service charge is not a tip.

 

Can't have it both ways :)

 

Not having a go at you nana541 :)

 

It's only one way.

 

NCL has a FAQ where they CLEARLY differentiate between a gratuity and the service charge.

 

The bar/spa/etc examples you keep bringing up are gratuities, they are optional (btw), and are given to the employee named on the receipt that you sign. No different than including the tip on your bill on land. That money goes to the employee and not to NCL.

 

However...we are discussing service charges, NOT tips. So back to topic, the service charge is contractually billed (per the Guest Ticket Contract) and it goes to NCL...never to a named employee. The money belongs to NCL, who can distribute it according to their discretion (as outlined in the FAQ).

 

NCL never refers to the Service Charge as a tip. That is nothing more than message board urban legand with no basis in fact.