Bankrupt at Northwest? Sept. date apparently.

[Nothin' But Sun]

OK, so I have posted before about this, although then it was a impending Strike! Is anyone flying with them in the near future and what are you doing about it? I am still so confused about this whole issue. Do I get $ back if I cancel? Will someone else pick them up? Like Sky Service did for Canada 3000. Do I wait it out? My luck some other airline will go bottom up!!!

[kybill]

We're wondering the same thing about Delta. In our local paper tonight it says Delta is considering chapter 11. Cincinnati is a large Delta hub with lots of job's up for grabs and our cruise air in September. I sure hope Delta keeps flying or a lot of us are going to be looking for air fare to get to our departure ports. In our case VanCouver.

Bill

[whale-watcher]

We are flying in early September, and at this point they don't anticipate any schedule changes...

Do you have a link to any more recent information regarding NWA -- I just did a quick search and didn't see anything new?

[cruzelovr]

The media in Detroit say that it's a mechanics strike with Northwest, but they are planning to bring in other mechanics to work on their planes if they do strike. The set strike date is Aug 20. I haven't heard anything about financial problems, though I did hear lately that they are getting rid of their frequent flier program, which sucks because I just earned enough for a free flight...

 

I'd go to http://www.clickondetroit.com to check on the Northwest situation. That's the site for the NBC affiliate WDIV channel 4 in Detroit.

[Lamar Cheeks]

a highly placed source in the industry says a Northwest strike is "very unlikely."

[bob278]

I would bet heavily that an airline woud risk pi$$ing off a union before they'd do that to their frequent fliers. That would ensure a fatal bankruptcy, not just chapter 11 because a large segment of the people who might continue to put up with cutbacks and poor service will take an immediate hike. No customer base, no business, no recovery.

 

I may get seriously flamed here, but I just do not understand the mentality of a union that will strike a company on the brink of failure. Do they think the management is lying? Look at all the big airlines. The industry has some serious problems. If the job is so bad you can't stand to go to work, leave; don't cost thousands of other people their jobs.

[Nothin' But Sun]

Isn't a strike worse than going bankrupt? I thought in the case of the latter someone comes to help out? Or am I way off base. Still need to know, do I cancel and rebook elsewhere, will I get my $ back or at least some of it? Any answers would be appreciated.

As far as hearing about the Bankrupcy, I also heard it along side with Delta this morning on one of the news shows, always flicking so I can't remember which one.

[hermang]

OK' date=' so I have posted before about this, although then it was a impending Strike! Is anyone flying with them in the near future and what are you doing about it? I am still so confused about this whole issue. Do I get $ back if I cancel? Will someone else pick them up? Like Sky Service did for Canada 3000. Do I wait it out? My luck some other airline will go bottom up!!![/quote']

I spoke to the NW rep about 2 weeks ago - she said nothing is certain and in fact other than the cooling off period ends 8/20 nothing has been heard.

 

I suspect we will get to Anchorage ok - it's back that may be an issue.

 

Air Canada has a flight from YVR to Hartford but it will be anyone's guess if they strike if we can get on board. NW says they will try to rebook us.

 

I am on Worldperks miles wife is on a paid ticket. We both have cruise insurance - if they go on strike on the 22nd and stay that way for the 28th -

Travel insurance will definitely pay for tickets on another airline AND hotel

til we get accomodated

[bob278]

Nothin' But Sun,

 

It's really tough to give you an answer because everybody's threshold for risk is different. I can only tell you what I would do in what I think your situation is. First, I am guessing you are flying in early December.

 

First off, I will assume your ticket is non-refundable under normal circumstances. The only way you would get money back (to the best of my knowledge) is if NW did not fly when you wanted to go because of a strike AND they could not get you to your destination on a different flight or airline within some defined time (I'm guessing 24 hours). So if you cancel ahead of time, I think you are out the money.

 

If there is a strike in September, you should be in a pretty good position to gauge the odds of your flight's chances some time before time to leave. If there is no strike and they file chapter 11, I would not worry about a December flight as they would stay in chapter 11 for quite some time before folding (if it came to that at all).

 

Now to what I would do. I would buy a fully refundable ticket on some other airline as a backup to be darned sure I got to my cruise. If it gets so bad that you needed it, you would probably be able to get some or all of your NW ticket money back from your credit card company (assuming you paid by cc). If you don't need the alternate flight, cancel it just before flight time and get your money back. Yes, you will tie up a good bit of money for a while, but you will buy a lot of stress relief. While I would think you have a good chance of being alright, I'd much rather tie up the money than try to deal with an insurance company to get my cruise money back because I couldn't get there.

 

Just my 2 cents' worth. Good luck.

 

Hermang posted while I was. He has a point, but the insurance has limits and some policies have exceptions for certain airlines and cruiselines that they think are troubled and they may not cover. I still think December gives a strike some time to be resolved or allow you time to evaluate the situation.

[hermang]

I would bet heavily that an airline woud risk pi$$ing off a union before they'd do that to their frequent fliers. That would ensure a fatal bankruptcy, not just chapter 11 because a large segment of the people who might continue to put up with cutbacks and poor service will take an immediate hike. No customer base, no business, no recovery.

 

I may get seriously flamed here, but I just do not understand the mentality of a union that will strike a company on the brink of failure. Do they think the management is lying? Look at all the big airlines. The industry has some serious problems. If the job is so bad you can't stand to go to work, leave; don't cost thousands of other people their jobs.

And I too will probably get flamed as well.

Keep in mind the following - Union officers will still collect huge paychecks while the mechanics are pounding the pavement - this is a powerplay - thats how they get to keep their job - tell the mechanics the airline is making money - management is making megabucks while they have to survive on $75-100k a year. So who cares if the airline goes bust - why because they can probably BUMP someone with less seniority at another airline.

 

I agree - when its time for a new contract - the Union HATES their JOB and HATES the company so why have they worked for 30 years for these guys?

 

I used to work for two major Union Shops - One, a major machine tool maker in Detroit and a large Newspaper in NYC - both went through strikes and it was UGLY - No one won

[dirtgirl]

We have the misfortune of having a flight booked on Aug. 20th with Northwest on Airmiles, the day that the mechanics are in a legal strike position. Neither the flight nor the cruise insurance covers strikes - they will not reimburse you if you miss either! (I checked with both; made me wonder why I bought insurance)! So, if we miss the cruise, we will be out $4000.:(

 

 

So, I bought back-up airline tickets with another airline last week, that leave after our flights with Northwest. If NWA flies, we can defer the other tickets for one year, but will have to pay a penalty of $100 US per ticket to do so. We bought the airline tickets on Airmiles because we could not afford the tickets - now our savings are gone and things are looking bleak. Thinking of cancelling some excursions to save money, and it will definitely affect the "fun" quotient on the cruise. I do like the rum drinks on the pool deck!:D

 

To top it all off, the back-up tickets that we purchased went down in cost by $175 after I bought them. They offered me a travel voucher for that amount, but it cannot be applied to the deferred tickets. :confused: So, we would have to fly with them twice in the next year in order to use them. With no money left, I don't think that that will happen.

 

The totally refundable tickets were running at $857 Canadian BEFORE taxes and fees, ONE WAY. If we actually had to use them, we would be in serious debt.

 

Thank you NWA and the mechanics for making what should have been an exciting, highly anticipated trip, to one frought with money worries and anxiety. We are having trouble even looking forward to it now.

[dalwhitt]

Thank God for Southwest! Before this year I had flown on Southwest just once in the last 5 years. But with all the things going on with the other airlines these days I've changed my thinking. I've been on three flights this year and have three more booked for the rest of 2005 (I'm sure I will have more). Of those six total flights, five have been on Southwest.

 

Southwest gives me peace of mind. I know they aren't going on strike. Plus, if I can't make the flight for some reason then I can use that credit towards a future flight ... without paying a $100 penalty.

 

If you print out your boarding pass after 12:01 a.m. the night before your flight you are guaranteed to be in the first group to get on the plane.

 

With points from credit cards, flights and other things, I've earned one frequent flyer ticket and I'm just half a credit away from my second one. I've got a plan to accumulate 100 credits in one year (should have that by February) which will then alow my wife to fly FREE with me for the entire year ... even if I'm using one of my frequent flyer freebies.

 

So when I sail on Freedom of the Seas in August 2006, airfare for me and the wife will be totally free.

 

When we go to Phoenix on vacation in March with my grandson, airfare won't cost a dime.

 

And there are a couple other trips we're working on where only one of us will have to pay.

 

If you've got Southwest in your town you really should look into them.

 

I've been through the threat of possible strikes on US Air and Northwest. You don't need anymore stress than you already get now from flying.

[steve20832]

Everyone in Minnesota is hoping they go out of business except the loss of all the jobs. They have the worst service and a monopoly on the airport (NW has about 85% of the gates) Seems you can never fly anywhere for less than $300. It would be nice if the state of MN let other airlines come in to bring in some compitition to lower the fares. I would love to see Jetblue, Southwest or FlyI move in to bring in lower prices...

[steve20832]

We are flying in early September, and at this point they don't anticipate any schedule changes...

Do you have a link to any more recent information regarding NWA -- I just did a quick search and didn't see anything new?

 

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=104051

 

The airline is responsible for getting you there (if they are still around)

They would book you on another plane with another airline if they don't have a plane to fly you in on.

If they close up shop, you can dispute the charge with your credit card company and book another airfare. If you paid cash, you are SOL.

[Cruisemom39]

And I too will probably get flamed as well.

Keep in mind the following - Union officers will still collect huge paychecks while the mechanics are pounding the pavement - this is a powerplay - thats how they get to keep their job - tell the mechanics the airline is making money - management is making megabucks while they have to survive on $75-100k a year. So who cares if the airline goes bust - why because they can probably BUMP someone with less seniority at another airline.

 

I agree - when its time for a new contract - the Union HATES their JOB and HATES the company so why have they worked for 30 years for these guys?

 

 

A couple of thoughts, and I'm sure I'll get flamed, but here goes:

1) You cannot "bump" someone with less seniority from another airline. You can bump (displace) from within your own airline if that option is offered and you have enough seniority. Someone who hired on with Delta in 1976 cannot go to Northwest and displace an employee hired in 1986! Honestly....

2) Pilots and aircraft mechanics, for example, are specially-trained professionals who have limited opportunities outside the airline industry. This is one reason they stay with a less-than-stellar employer, along with pension/benefits.

3) Yes, management does lie. Often. How about Continental in bankruptcy, crying poverty, paying $10,000 per year for the 4 yo son of a non-union employee to attend Catholic preschool while the union employees take pay cuts? All airlines are suffering greatly, but it would be naive to assume management isn't "cooking the books" to some degree, and the unions are doing the same - its a power struggle!

 

Don't be so quick to lay all the blame on the Unions and their workers. They have families, are facing bills, reduced income, unemployment potential. The industry had a lot of "fat" pre-9/11 and was due for a natural correction, IMHO, but has seen far more than that in terms of the economy, fuel prices, etc. Just like steelworkers, other industries that have fallen victim to outsourcing or the economy. What United has done to its employee pensions is criminal. I thank God my DH and I got out of that industry when we did, but I still have many family members and friends who have suffered greatly at the hands of the airlines and unions. I have seen friends/family members in their late 40s lose their jobs and pensions, and have to hit the pavement, get retrained in new careers, suffer financially - I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. And when a city loses a hub carrier, you can bet the economic impact will be huge. Aside from the thousands of newly-unemployed from that carrier and the strain on social services, all the supporting industries will suffer too. Be careful what you wish for.

 

Its a joint effort, not just foot-stomping Unions that are causing problems for employees and passengers.

[mc'smom]

OK' date=' so I have posted before about this, although then it was a impending Strike! Is anyone flying with them in the near future and what are you doing about it? I am still so confused about this whole issue. Do I get $ back if I cancel? Will someone else pick them up? Like Sky Service did for Canada 3000. Do I wait it out? My luck some other airline will go bottom up!!![/quote']

 

Just because they go bankrupt does not mean they are going to stop flying...

 

The two airlines you mentioned from canada are Charters... Not scheduled air carriers. Northwest WILL not leave you stranded like JETSGO did during March Break... I am sure you paid for your flights with a credit card. This is the most important, your Credit card will reimburse you all of the fare paid including taxes.

 

Some of the people who paid cash when Jetsgo went under wont' get thier taxes back and you know how much money that can be in Canada..

 

Sit back and do not worry about NWA,

Enjoy your holiday.:)

[steve20832]

A couple of thoughts, and I'm sure I'll get flamed, but here goes:

All airlines are suffering greatly, but it would be naive to assume management isn't "cooking the books" to some degree, and the unions are doing the same - its a power struggle!

 

Don't be so quick to lay all the blame on the Unions and their workers. They have families, are facing bills, reduced income, unemployment potential. The industry had a lot of "fat" pre-9/11 and was due for a natural correction, IMHO, but has seen far more than that in terms of the economy, fuel prices, etc. Just like steelworkers, other industries that have fallen victim to outsourcing or the economy. What United has done to its employee pensions is criminal. I thank God my DH and I got out of that industry when we did, but I still have many family members and friends who have suffered greatly at the hands of the airlines and unions. I have seen friends/family members in their late 40s lose their jobs and pensions, and have to hit the pavement, get retrained in new careers, suffer financially - I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. And when a city loses a hub carrier, you can bet the economic impact will be huge. Aside from the thousands of newly-unemployed from that carrier and the strain on social services, all the supporting industries will suffer too. Be careful what you wish for.

 

Its a joint effort, not just foot-stomping Unions that are causing problems for employees and passengers.

 

The airlines that do NOT have unions are making a profit. Southwest, and Jetblue for example.....Southwest hasn't posted a revenue loss in over 20 years...

[Cruisemom39]

The airlines that do NOT have unions are making a profit. Southwest, and Jetblue for example.....Southwest hasn't posted a revenue loss in over 20 years...

 

Thye are profitable, no dispute here. And I dare say the day of the legacy airlines is drawing to an end, if not already ended...economics require a transformation of how they do business. That's not to say, however, that the unions are the sole cause of financial misfortune with the legacy carriers. I am not a union worker any more, and have seen both the good and bad of unions first hand. I do believe, however, that unions have had a hand in substantially improving working conditions in this country throughout history. Employers with no unions often have to offer similar packages as competitors with unions in order to attract and keep employees.

 

The current climate of outsourcing overseas is a very real example of how corporate greed is effecting our economy. And should we feel safe in the hands of corporate management, lets reflect on the Enron employees...

 

Its horrible situation. I feel for the passengers and the employees; the large majority of whom just want to keep working, I'm sure.

 

FYI, Southwest does have unions, actually. I know pilots, flight attendants and ramp agents are unionized, not sure of other departments.

[Globaliser]

The airlines that do NOT have unions are making a profit. Southwest, and Jetblue for example.....Southwest hasn't posted a revenue loss in over 20 years...

Southwest is one of the most heavily unionised of US airlines. It makes good money for reasons other than the absence of unions.

[Sea-hawk]

We live in Dallas and have grown up with Southwest. They are the best, and by the way , they are the most unionized airline in the US. The difference is how thier managment and board works with the unions and the respect they show all the employees. It makes a difference and we are gald they are here. Now let's help them get rid of the Wright Ammendment!

[TEXASMUNK]

Facts: Southwest is very heavily unionized. But the pilot works rules, etc are very, very different from the majors.

 

JetBlue: Profitable because when they started AirBus cut them a deal to lease their aircraft with NO payments fort he first 5 years.

 

Back to the original question: Get your money back? No. If a strike occurs, other carriers have a choice of accepting NW tickets on a standby basis.

If NW files bankrupcy, you will see little if any difference (include Delta in the thought) in day to day operations to begin with until they begin reducing service by eliminating the least profitable routes.

[TEXASMUNK]

Facts: Southwest is very heavily unionized. But the pilot works rules, etc are very, very different from the majors.

 

JetBlue: Profitable because when they started, AirBus cut them a deal to lease their aircraft with NO payments for the first 5 years.

 

Back to the original question: Get your money back? No. If a strike occurs, other carriers have a choice of accepting NW tickets on a standby basis.

If NW files bankrupcy, you will see little if any difference (include Delta in the thought) in day to day operations to begin with until they begin reducing service by eliminating the least profitable routes.

[Cruisemom39]

Southwest is one of the most heavily unionised of US airlines. It makes good money for reasons other than the absence of unions.

 

Exactly. All-737 fleet, for example versus having to maintain/service several different types of aircraft. Lack of traditional hub-and-spoke route system, for another.

 

Regardless, its rather unnerving to have money tied up in a carrier (as a passenger, I mean) with a questionable future. For the foreseeable future everyone booked on NW should be fine. Liquidation for United, NW, or others is a long way off, and if I remember correctly, in the cases such as Pan Am and Eastern, most other carriers honored their tickets. Its just a huge inconvenience.

[worldsbestcandles]

Ok, I think you guys are blowing the whole "I'll be left at the gate" thing out of hand. They have to make every attempt to put you on a plane. I live in Detroit and am an Elite member of NWA and I haven't heard anything other than the strike may start on Aug 20 (I am flying that day BTW but not for a cruise). I am flying htem for my cruise on October 1st though.

 

For dirtgirl, I would never have bought tickets like you did. If you check-in for NWA and they can't get you on a flight to make your cruise, how on earth do you think you will get your luggage! You are better off having NWA getting you there whatever way they can.

 

For steve20832, I can't believe that you would hope the NWA hub leaves MN. First of all, your beef is with the airport or state or city. NWA can't say that airlines can fly there. We have every airline you can imagine here in Detroit and are adding more all the time (AirTran is the latest this week!). NWA doesn't have a say in how many flights each airline does. The airport does.

 

Lastly, I think the unions have a big part of the trouble companies are in today. Not just in the airline industry, but everywhere. Look at the big three, they are getting creamed because they are competing with companies that don't have unions. Also, I think while times were good the union reps (who make a lot of money) neogotiated really good (as they should have) and got the unions a lot of benefits and pay. Problem is, when times get tight, companies can pull benefits for office jobs and not for union. I think that is ridiculous. Times aren't so good now. As one poster said earlier, if a company is not doing so good, the employees should try to help not pout and make it worse. When someone who works on the line gets paid more and has better benefits than someone who has worked for the same company for over 20 years there is something wrong with that. I have seen the place for unions and know a lot of people who don't take advantage of the system, however given the way the economy is going, I don't think they can last much longer the way they are run now. I think some changes need to happen.

 

All of that being said, I hope all goes well with NWA. I love flying them and don't want to see them mistreat their employees, no matter what their job with the company is, union or not. I think they offer great service for the most part and if they cut some costs for awhile things will come back. They do have the most loyal frequent flyers in the nation, and some of the best perks in that route. I appreciate the mechanics who make sure I fly safe everytime I fly (which averages 4 flights a month at least)...

 

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I'm fairly optimistic about this one. Also, a friend of mine is a retired mechanic from NWA and some of his friends are mechanics currently with United. He said that there is talk of a ysmpathy strike if the government doesn't step in and that ALL mechanics would strike in support of the NWA mechanics. THAT would cause all kinds of problems.... I do hope it all works out for the best.

 

I will next post some thigns from the NWA website, hopefully it will answer some people's questions.... I know there is a chance that things can go bad, but I'm really hoping for the best here and that the unions and the management make a deal that benefits both sides.

[worldsbestcandles]

From the NWA website:

 

What is the 30-day cooling-off period?

On July 20, the National Mediation Board (NMB), which oversees labor relations within the airline industry, declared that negotiations between Northwest Airlines and the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) are at an impasse. This means that a 30-day "cooling-off" period has begun. If no agreement is reached by the end of this period, the union has the option to strike. Regardless, Northwest will continue to operate 100% of its schedule following the end of the cooling off period.

 

 

How will airline operations be affected during the cooling-off period?

We expect no impact during the cooling-off period. Northwest intends to operate its full schedule of flights during and after the 30-day period.

 

Does this mean a strike is now inevitable?

No. Northwest continues to work towards a consensual agreement to achieve labor-cost savings with AMFA before the 30-day period expires. Negotiations are scheduled during the cooling-off period. These negotiations begin on August 2. The National Mediation Board will oversee the negotiations, which will be held in Washington DC.

 

What happens if the 30-day period expires without an agreement?

A strike or other work action may occur, or the two sides may continue to negotiate. Northwest will work towards an agreement with AMFA at the negotiations in August. Regardless of the outcome, Northwest will continue to operate 100% of its schedule.

 

If a strike does take place, will you cut back the number of flights or close operations in any market, state or district?

Northwest plans to continue serving all markets in our network, according to the full schedule of flights.

 

Do you expect other unions to engage in sympathy strikes or refuse to cross AMFA picket lines?

Under the requirements of the Railway Labor Act, all of the unions representing Northwest employees are required to follow the agreements that are in place. However, if individual members of other unions choose to engage in job actions, Northwest is prepared to serve our customers without interruption. Our contingency plan ensures that we will have sufficient personnel to continue operating our full schedule of flights.

 

What if I've already booked a flight for a date after the end of the 30-day cooling-off period? Will you give refunds or otherwise accommodate customers who wish to change or cancel their trips?

No. Because Northwest plans to continue to operate our full normal schedule of flights, each ticket's normal fare rules will apply.

 

Will it be safe to fly Northwest if its mechanics go on strike?

Yes. Safety is our first priority. Northwest must be in full compliance with all FAA safety regulations at all times. Northwest meets, and will continue to meet, these regulations in every respect. Northwest has a comprehensive contingency plan to ensure that customer support, flight support personnel and licensed, trained mechanics will be in place and working in the event of a work stoppage.

 

How do you plan to replace the mechanics if they strike?

Our first priority is to reach an agreement with the mechanics, but in the event of a job action, key aircraft-maintenance duties now performed by AMFA members will be assumed by groups of qualified mechanics. Our fleet will be maintained by Northwest managers who are licensed technicians, along with other licensed contract technicians and additional third-party vendors with whom Northwest has existing well-established relationships.

 

How well-equipped will these managers, technicians and third-party vendors be to service your planes?

Northwest's staff will be fully trained and licensed to work on our aircraft. All of the managers and vendors have gone through extensive hands-on training in aircraft maintenance. In addition, 85 percent of the licensed contract technicians and third-party vendor mechanics have at least five years of experience on aircraft comparable with that operated by Northwest, and 65 percent have at least 10 years of experience on such aircraft. This level of experience is consistent with that of our mechanics. The work will be subject to oversight by Northwest's quality assurance auditors and the FAA.

 

If your plans to fly a full normal schedule fail, will you compensate for delays or cancellations?

We do not anticipate that our passengers' travel plans will be disrupted. However, any airline must always be prepared for any type of irregular operation, and if any should occur, we will follow our existing policy of accommodating customers in several ways. Examples include the waiving of fare rules, rebooking passengers to other Northwest flights, allowing the refund of non-refundable tickets, and in some cases, re-booking passengers on other airlines' flights.

 

If I have to be re-accommodated on another airline, will Northwest still award WorldPerks miles?

We do not anticipate a need to use other airlines. If there is a need to cancel a flight, we will re-accommodate passengers on another Northwest flight or other carriers as necessary. When this happens, we will credit WorldPerks accounts as though they had flown on their original Northwest itinerary.

 

Are my WorldPerks miles in jeopardy?

No. The integrity of our WorldPerks program will not be affected by labor issues. WorldPerks members will continue to earn and redeem miles according to the WorldPerks program rules.

 

How will Mesaba and Pinnacle-operated flights be affected by the situation and a potential strike?

Like Northwest's mainline operation, Northwest's Airlink partners will continue to operate a full flight schedule. Northwest's Airlink partners maintain and operate their fleets independently. Neither Mesaba Aviation nor Pinnacle Airlines employs Northwest's mechanics or crews. Our Airlink partners do not anticipate any disruption of their operations or their relationship with Northwest. If there is a strike, will connecting passengers from Mesaba and Pinnacle flights be able to connect at Northwest hubs without a problem?

Yes. Northwest's passengers will continue to enjoy the seamless travel experience offered by Northwest and our Airlink partners. Northwest hubs will provide the same ticketing, check-in and transfer services that passengers have come to expect.