NCL ship board credit can't be used for everything !

[sjbdtz]

I am not hung up on anything. I know what the word means.

 

How would you like your employer spending your money for you?

 

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My employer does spend my money for me. I mean, it's not technically my money...it's their money, which they've collected for me as part of their gross profit-margin.

 

Then, they compensate me.

They pay the government payroll taxes associated with me.

They pay for employee relations things such as group activities at our sales meetings.

They pay for my health care, including options I would not have contracted for, had the choice been up to me.

 

Collectively, these things... my pay, my incentives, my benefits, and the other welfare-oriented investments they make in me, comprise my compensation package.

 

It's the same on-board.

 

 

 

Benefits that your employer gives you should not be confused with tips. Tips should be the service persons money and not turned over to an employer.

 

Precisely. A Daily Service Charge should not be confused with tips, for the same reason.

 

A Daily Service Charge provides a fundamental component of the crew-person's compensation package - being the variable compensation element thereof.

 

NCL operates an environment where 'tipping' isn't really practical, and so they have structured an incentive plan with the DSC at its core, which provides for employee's compensation (including well-being).

 

We have heard from prior posters, that there is no administration levy associated with the DSC, and that the administration costs are borne by the employer, in addition to the room & food & medical & base salary components which also comprise the compensation package.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

[jackson bernard]

My employer does spend my money for me. I mean, it's not technically my money...it's their money, which they've collected for me as part of their gross profit-margin.

 

Then, they compensate me.

They pay the government payroll taxes associated with me.

They pay for employee relations things such as group activities at our sales meetings.

They pay for my health care, including options I would not have contracted for, had the choice been up to me.

 

Collectively, these things... my pay, my incentives, my benefits, and the other welfare-oriented investments they make in me, comprise my compensation package.

 

It's the same on-board.

 

 

 

 

 

Precisely. A Daily Service Charge should not be confused with tips, for the same reason.

 

A Daily Service Charge provides a fundamental component of the crew-person's compensation package - being the variable compensation element thereof.

 

NCL operates an environment where 'tipping' isn't really practical, and so they have structured an incentive plan with the DSC at its core, which provides for employee's compensation (including well-being).

 

We have heard from prior posters, that there is no administration levy associated with the DSC, and that the administration costs are borne by the employer, in addition to the room & food & medical & base salary components which also comprise the compensation package.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

 

Keep telling yourself that.

 

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[sjbdtz]

Keep telling yourself that.

 

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Tell me something....anything at all... even half as credible as what the crew themselves had told me, and maybe you'd stand a chance of getting me to see your side.

 

All I see is somebody willing to stiff staff he doesn't interact with. And that doesn't keep my respect. Sorry.

 

 

 

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[jackson bernard]

Tell me something....anything at all... even half as credible as what the crew themselves had told me, and maybe you'd stand a chance of getting me to see your side.

 

All I see is somebody willing to stiff staff he doesn't interact with. And that doesn't keep my respect. Sorry.

 

 

 

.

 

All I see is a company stiffing their staff and cheerleaders sticking up for them.

 

I don’t need to convince you of anything. Nor do I need your respect.

 

Happy sailing

 

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[Kortehgehn]

NCL has changed the system, for various reasons, most of which I think tend to benefit NCL, some of which may benefit the staff onboard their ships, and I would say none of which benefit the consumer. Having a DSC in lieu of tipping gives NCL much more control over the final distribution of those funds that would normally be given directly to the crew. Also I think this can affect the level of performance of some crew members because tipping is not expected and the DSC is pooled and distributed evenly regardless of individual guests opinion of service quality.

 

In the past few years almost all lines have implemented something similar to the DSC concept. For example Royal Caribbean calls it an automatic gratuity charge, but I don't think it's really much different than NCL's DSC. Prior to these changes it was common practice to tip staff such as the cabin steward, maitre d', sommelier, waiter, and busboy and other such staff on the last day of the cruise.

 

Lots of people are commenting here that the DSC is not a tip, and while that may be technically true in wording the fact is that it has replaced the standard practice of tipping these crew members. Anyway, I just think this is an important point to remember when talking about the DSC. :rolleyes:

[johnql]

Also I think this can affect the level of performance of some crew members because tipping is not expected and the DSC is pooled and distributed evenly regardless of individual guests opinion of service quality.

Please point me to anything that supports this statement - that "the DSC is pooled and distributed evenly regardless of individual guests opinion of service quality". I have been told by two NCL Hotel Directors that there are many factors that go how much each individual employee receives from the DSC pool - performance review and guest evaluation cards, at the very least. If you can prove me wrong, please do so.

[sparks1093]

NCL has changed the system, for various reasons, most of which I think tend to benefit NCL, some of which may benefit the staff onboard their ships, and I would say none of which benefit the consumer. Having a DSC in lieu of tipping gives NCL much more control over the final distribution of those funds that would normally be given directly to the crew. Also I think this can affect the level of performance of some crew members because tipping is not expected and the DSC is pooled and distributed evenly regardless of individual guests opinion of service quality.

 

In the past few years almost all lines have implemented something similar to the DSC concept. For example Royal Caribbean calls it an automatic gratuity charge, but I don't think it's really much different than NCL's DSC. Prior to these changes it was common practice to tip staff such as the cabin steward, maitre d', sommelier, waiter, and busboy and other such staff on the last day of the cruise.

 

Lots of people are commenting here that the DSC is not a tip, and while that may be technically true in wording the fact is that it has replaced the standard practice of tipping these crew members. Anyway, I just think this is an important point to remember when talking about the DSC. :rolleyes:

 

The reason that NCL went to the service charge model is because it's what works best under the Freestyle concept without being an administrative nightmare. I have eaten in restaurants where the staff pooled the tips and had superlative service, so I don't think that pooling is responsible for any lack of service. Staffing levels and training are probably the biggest factors impacting service (and sometimes staff members become unable to work and since the ship can't call Adecco to bring more staff onboard they have to make do with what they have).

[sjbdtz]

NCL has changed the system, for various reasons, most of which I think tend to benefit NCL, some of which may benefit the staff onboard their ships, and I would say none of which benefit the consumer. Having a DSC in lieu of tipping gives NCL much more control over the final distribution of those funds that would normally be given directly to the crew. Also I think this can affect the level of performance of some crew members because tipping is not expected and the DSC is pooled and distributed evenly regardless of individual guests opinion of service quality.

 

In the past few years almost all lines have implemented something similar to the DSC concept. For example Royal Caribbean calls it an automatic gratuity charge, but I don't think it's really much different than NCL's DSC. Prior to these changes it was common practice to tip staff such as the cabin steward, maitre d', sommelier, waiter, and busboy and other such staff on the last day of the cruise.

 

Lots of people are commenting here that the DSC is not a tip, and while that may be technically true in wording the fact is that it has replaced the standard practice of tipping these crew members. Anyway, I just think this is an important point to remember when talking about the DSC. :rolleyes:

 

 

I do not work in a position which earns tips. Yet, strangely, I still do my best at my job.

 

Why do you think people who benefit from a portion of the Daily Service Charge wouldn't also do their best, regardless of whether there were tips or not?

 

Besides, as many here will tell you, the DSC is not a tipping system. It is INSTEAD of a tipping culture. NCL has eliminated the tipping culture for cabin-service and wait-service, in much the same innovative way that they eliminated set meal times. It may not be what you're used to, but that doesn't mean it's wrong or disadvantageous.

 

 

How would you feel, if they told you that your cruise fare included all gratuities? Would that be better? No need to tip at all.

 

The only thing you need to do is pay $12/day for food in the MDR or grills or buffet and a supplement on top of that for the premium restaurants.

 

Would that be okay?

 

It's the EXACT SAME THING. They've simply calculated what the TOTAL PRICE of everything is, and then carved-out $12/day to make it noticeable.

 

Really it's no different than determining the total cost of the cruise, and then carving out $100 of OBC (the same as a discount) to make it noticeable.

 

 

And for people who say "nobody will change their minds", well....those who are wrong, should. Just because they keep saying that they're right, doesn't mean they are, nor that any of this is a matter of opinion. It isn't.

 

The following are as close to facts as one can get from the input of thousands of regular cruisers who post on CC, and discussions with management and crew of NCL ships specifically:

 

- There is no requirement to tip, for any service which is enjoyed by all passengers (e.g. room maintenance and food service).

 

- In order to help passengers unaccustomed to this idea understand WHY tipping is not required, NCL carved-out $12/day pp. to demonstrate that crew are being compensated. It is not tipping, it is in lieu of tipping.

 

- The DSC contribution is slightly higher than some other ships recommend for their 'traditional' tipping cultures, and some of the DSC amounts are applied to non-cash compensation elements for the crew.

 

- The cruise line does not take an administrative levy from the DSC.

 

- The DSC is not apportioned in equal parts, inputs such as frequent guest praise, performance reviews, and seniority are factors.

 

- You are not required to tip. On the other hand, you are not prevented from doing so.

 

 

 

 

.

[jackson bernard]

I do not work in a position which earns tips. Yet, strangely, I still do my best at my job.

 

Why do you think people who benefit from a portion of the Daily Service Charge wouldn't also do their best, regardless of whether there were tips or not?

 

Besides, as many here will tell you, the DSC is not a tipping system. It is INSTEAD of a tipping culture. NCL has eliminated the tipping culture for cabin-service and wait-service, in much the same innovative way that they eliminated set meal times. It may not be what you're used to, but that doesn't mean it's wrong or disadvantageous.

 

 

How would you feel, if they told you that your cruise fare included all gratuities? Would that be better? No need to tip at all.

 

The only thing you need to do is pay $12/day for food in the MDR or grills or buffet and a supplement on top of that for the premium restaurants.

 

Would that be okay?

 

It's the EXACT SAME THING. They've simply calculated what the TOTAL PRICE of everything is, and then carved-out $12/day to make it noticeable.

 

Really it's no different than determining the total cost of the cruise, and then carving out $100 of OBC (the same as a discount) to make it noticeable.

 

 

And for people who say "nobody will change their minds", well....those who are wrong, should. Just because they keep saying that they're right, doesn't mean they are, nor that any of this is a matter of opinion. It isn't.

 

The following are as close to facts as one can get from the input of thousands of regular cruisers who post on CC, and discussions with management and crew of NCL ships specifically:

 

- There is no requirement to tip, for any service which is enjoyed by all passengers (e.g. room maintenance and food service).

 

- In order to help passengers unaccustomed to this idea understand WHY tipping is not required, NCL carved-out $12/day pp. to demonstrate that crew are being compensated. It is not tipping, it is in lieu of tipping.

 

- The DSC contribution is slightly higher than some other ships recommend for their 'traditional' tipping cultures, and some of the DSC amounts are applied to non-cash compensation elements for the crew.

 

- The cruise line does not take an administrative levy from the DSC.

 

- The DSC is not apportioned in equal parts, inputs such as frequent guest praise, performance reviews, and seniority are factors.

 

- You are not required to tip. On the other hand, you are not prevented from doing so.

 

 

 

 

.

 

We used to tip directly to the staff who directly provided services to us.

 

Since you feel its fair for your tips to pay all kinds of staff (even on different ships) then by all means continue to do so.

 

This is just a way to raise fares without having to advertise them and control how much money goes to each staff member from the tips.

 

 

 

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[Kortehgehn]

Well, this is off topic, but I think discretionary tipping is a good thing. I suppose it would have been clearer to say that guests no longer get to decide what is a fair amount of extra compensation for a particular crew member, especially in the event of poor or exceptional service, because the amount each employee receives is determined by NCL and comes out of the DSC.

 

Normally if I receive exceptional service from a crew member and then I leave this crew member a tip, they receive that full tip for themselves; if they choose to give some of that tip to other crew that I did not have direct contact with that is their choice as well. NCL says tipping is not required but requires that guests pay that money to NCL instead through DSC and they will distribute it for you. It is a fact that the DSC does not go directly to crew members, at least some of it is used for NCL's "incentive programs". I do not know what percentage of this goes to the crew directly, I perhaps incorrectly assumed that this was pooled and distributed to crew evenly.

 

"Staff members including restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports"

 

The above quote from NCL's website leads me to believe that the DSC is only used for these incentive programs, which I assume may include crew bonuses.

 

Originally Posted by sjbdtz

 

How would you feel, if they told you that your cruise fare included all gratuities? Would that be better? No need to tip at all.

While I know that it is becoming more common practice to include mandatory gratuities in all kinds of service professions that previously did not, I do not understand how the inclusion of gratuity charges ever benefits the consumer. Gratuity charges should not be decided as a fixed rate by the provider of a service as it defeats the whole point of the gratuity in the first place.

 

Originally Posted by sjbdtz

 

They've simply calculated what the TOTAL PRICE of everything is, and then carved-out $12/day to make it noticeable.

 

Really it's no different than determining the total cost of the cruise, and then carving out $100 of OBC (the same as a discount) to make it noticeable.

I think NCL's cost structure is far more complex that the above example makes it seem. Cruise fares and profit margins can fluctuate greatly and the DSC is a fixed fee that everyone pays regardless of how much they paid for their cruise fare and it is paid per guest not per stateroom. OBC's are offered in different amounts at different times and do not affect the cruise fare directly. Also given the restrictions on OBC from NCL they are likely not worth an equal cash value compared to a cruise fare.

 

Originally Posted by sjbdtz

 

- The cruise line does not take an administrative levy from the DSC.

How can anyone possibly know this unless they work for NCL at the corporate level? This statement also depends heavily on the definition of "administrative levy" which could easily be subjective.

 

 

Sorry for the long post, I see that there are a lot of threads and opinions here on the forum about the DSC. All I know is that there is a lot that I do not know about how the DSC is really used by NCL.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Kortehgehn

[sjbdtz]

Well, this is off topic, but I think discretionary tipping is a good thing. I suppose it would have been clearer to say that guests no longer get to decide what is a fair amount of extra compensation for a particular crew member, especially in the event of poor or exceptional service, because the amount each employee receives is determined by NCL and comes out of the DSC.

 

 

 

But you DO get to decide who gets extra compensation. You just don't get to decide who gets basic pay.

 

 

THAT is what the DSC gives them.

 

Basic pay.

 

 

 

.

[Kortehgehn]

The DSC essentially replaces tipping on NCL cruises, it should not replace basic pay for the crew. Crew on these ships should still get a basic wage from NCL; tips should not be relied upon as base pay, they should only supplement base pay.

[luddite]

The DSC essentially replaces tipping on NCL cruises, it should not replace basic pay for the crew. Crew on these ships should still get a basic wage from NCL; tips should not be relied upon as base pay, they should only supplement base pay.

 

It IS the basic pay for them. Tips are anything extra that you give them.

Once you understand this, everything is easier.

[sparks1093]

The DSC essentially replaces tipping on NCL cruises, it should not replace basic pay for the crew. Crew on these ships should still get a basic wage from NCL; tips should not be relied upon as base pay, they should only supplement base pay.

 

Tipped and tipped out staff on most cruise lines make about $100 in salary, the remainder of their income comes from tips and or service charges. (Similar to the way that tipped staff at land based establishments earn an hourly rate far less than the minimum wage.) While what the crew makes may seem low by US standards they typically earn 2 to 4 times more than they could earn in their home country, which is why cruise ship employment is highly sought.

[sjbdtz]

The DSC essentially replaces tipping on NCL cruises, it should not replace basic pay for the crew. Crew on these ships should still get a basic wage from NCL; tips should not be relied upon as base pay, they should only supplement base pay.

 

 

 

...but they don't, and it doesn't.

 

And that's the way of the world today. The DSC ensures that the crew have a more stable income overall, but the component which is their base pay is around $50 / month.

 

 

 

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[jackson bernard]

...but they don't, and it doesn't.

 

And that's the way of the world today. The DSC ensures that the crew have a more stable income overall, but the component which is their base pay is around $50 / month.

 

 

 

.

 

I think the company decided some of the crew were being over paid because they cut the staff and gave them additional cabins or tables to take care of and in return were being overpaid with twice as many tips.

 

I also think letting the company decide who gets what reeks of favoritism.

 

Additionally, they use it for a welfare program fleetwide. So that dsc doesnt actually go to the people intended.

 

Its also a way for the company to raise fares without having to advertise the true cost. They then defend it saying they are discretionary. (They just make you jump through hoops to remove them)

 

I will be on the ship in sept. I have the udp and dont drink. I will not be giving a credit card or cash when I check in. Too bad if they dont like it.

 

It would be better if they just included it in the fare, then there would be no questions about it.

 

 

 

Oh, I will be tipping in cash and letting the crew decide what to do with the money.

 

 

 

 

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[sjbdtz]

I think the company decided some of the crew were being over paid because they cut the staff and gave them additional cabins or tables to take care of and in return were being overpaid with twice as many tips.

 

I also think letting the company decide who gets what reeks of favoritism.

 

Additionally, they use it for a welfare program fleetwide. So that dsc doesnt actually go to the people intended.

 

Its also a way for the company to raise fares without having to advertise the true cost. They then defend it saying they are discretionary. (They just make you jump through hoops to remove them)

 

I will be on the ship in sept. I have the udp and dont drink. I will not be giving a credit card or cash when I check in. Too bad if they dont like it.

 

It would be better if they just included it in the fare, then there would be no questions about it.

 

 

 

Oh, I will be tipping in cash and letting the crew decide what to do with the money.

 

 

 

 

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Do you also decide who will get promoted, or is that favoritism acceptable?

 

Besides, why is your favoritism more acceptable than the company's?

 

 

 

.

[rochelle_s]

 

 

 

I will be on the ship in sept. I have the udp and dont drink. I will not be giving a credit card or cash when I check in. Too bad if they dont like it.

 

 

I have never heard of anyone being able to do that.

 

What if they do not let you board? Will you change your mind?

 

 

Rochelle

[sjbdtz]

I will be on the ship in sept. I have the udp and dont drink. I will not be giving a credit card or cash when I check in. Too bad if they dont like it.

 

If you do what's in green, you won't be doing what's in red.

 

 

Too bad if you don't like it.

 

 

 

.

Edited August 5, 2014 by sjbdtz

[jackson bernard]

If you do what's in green, you won't be doing what's in red.

 

 

Too bad if you don't like it.

 

 

 

.

 

Oh Know it all Stevie is at it again.

 

Yes you can still board. I know from personal experience. Last year we were on the breakaway and the couple we went with did just that.

 

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[jackson bernard]

Do you also decide who will get promoted, or is that favoritism acceptable?

 

Besides, why is your favoritism more acceptable than the company's?

 

 

 

.

 

Tips will be given out to me keeping favoritism in mind of course stevie. The waiter that waits on me will be my favorite out of all the other waiters and th steward that cleans my room will be my favorite out of all the other stewards so he will get my tips.

 

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[sjbdtz]

Tips will be given out to me keeping favoritism in mind of course stevie. The waiter that waits on me will be my favorite out of all the other waiters and th steward that cleans my room will be my favorite out of all the other stewards so he will get my tips.

 

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You clearly don't understand how the system works, and my name is not "Stevie". Please refrain from addressing me as such.

 

 

 

.

[rochelle_s]

Oh Know it all Stevie is at it again.

 

Yes you can still board. I know from personal experience. Last year we were on the breakaway and the couple we went with did just that.

 

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Had they prepaid their gratuities?

 

You cannot remove your gratuities at check in. The ship needs to ensure that they have a way of collecting any money that you might owe them at the end of the cruise. If gratuities are not prepaid then this is the minimum that will be owed at the end. At least in the eyes of the cruise line. This could change if you remove them at a letter time at guest services but we are talking about check in.

 

I do not see how the shore side check in personnel can check you in without going through all the established protocol for boarding passengers, which includes establishing your shipboard account. This would require either a credit card or a cash deposit.

 

Not to be argumentative but why are you wishing to refuse this anyways? If you give a credit card upon boarding, charge nothing and as you say you plan on removing your DSC's then nothing will be charged to your card in the end. So what is the issue?

 

Are you trying to prove a point? No offense but it does appear that you are just being cantankerous. I just don't understand why this is an issue for you.

 

 

Rochelle

[jackson bernard]

Had they prepaid their gratuities?

 

You cannot remove your gratuities at check in. The ship needs to ensure that they have a way of collecting any money that you might owe them at the end of the cruise. If gratuities are not prepaid then this is the minimum that will be owed at the end. At least in the eyes of the cruise line. This could change if you remove them at a letter time at guest services but we are talking about check in.

 

I do not see how the shore side check in personnel can check you in without going through all the established protocol for boarding passengers, which includes establishing your shipboard account. This would require either a credit card or a cash deposit.

 

Not to be argumentative but why are you wishing to refuse this anyways? If you give a credit card upon boarding, charge nothing and as you say you plan on removing your DSC's then nothing will be charged to your card in the end. So what is the issue?

 

Are you trying to prove a point? No offense but it does appear that you are just being cantankerous. I just don't understand why this is an issue for you.

 

 

Rochelle

 

Because I am not jumping through hoops to get them to remove the charges is all. I will be tipping the personel that take care of me directly, and it will likely be more than the DSC.

 

His wife may have prepaid the tips I don't know. I didn't ask them, but she is a little eccentric anyway

 

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[jackson bernard]

You clearly don't understand how the system works, and my name is not "Stevie". Please refrain from addressing me as such.

 

 

 

.

 

I understand full well how the company wants the system to work. I also read other sites and the crew says they are being ripped off.

 

Clearly you are looking at the company with rose colored glasses

 

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