Hal discriminates European cruisers

[RollieUK]

HAL bent over backwards to accomodate the European's on our recent Prinsendam cruise. The captain left so a Dutch captain could take over. The announcements were in English and Dutch. Even the cruise director was Dutch. If they had to pay a little more to have that advantage, I would think they would be happy to do it. It made the cruise much easier for them. There were even Dutch shore excursions!! If I were HAL, I would charge them more for those reasons.

 

Where was this cruise?

[Cath66]

Hal seems to forget that Europeans are the ones they can make money on. They do the drinking on board. People from the US and or Canada only drink the free coffee or water.

 

You clearly don't know many Canadians

[chrispb]

You must be kidding! Does no one in Europe understand that the 15% to 20% value added tax that their governments impose upon all their purchases, or the import duties applied, might have something to do with what they pay for their purchases?

 

Levis are 48% cheaper in US than UK, I really can't be bothered to search for other items, so even accounting for the VAT there's a difference. Always has been this way, so really doesn't bother me.

 

At least the prices in UK are shown inclusive. In the US when I get to check out the taxes are added at the till. Much prefer our way of doing things.

[chrispb]

HAL bent over backwards to accomodate the European's on our recent Prinsendam cruise. The captain left so a Dutch captain could take over. The announcements were in English and Dutch. Even the cruise director was Dutch. If they had to pay a little more to have that advantage, I would think they would be happy to do it. It made the cruise much easier for them. There were even Dutch shore excursions!! If I were HAL, I would charge them more for those reasons.

 

Really? Where, when? I thought the majority of captains were Dutch anyway.

[navybankerteacher]

Levis are 48% cheaper in US than UK, I really can't be bothered to search for other items, so even accounting for the VAT there's a difference. Always has been this way, so really doesn't bother me.

 

At least the prices in UK are shown inclusive. In the US when I get to check out the taxes are added at the till. Much prefer our way of doing things.

 

Because sales taxes in the US are not universal in most jurisdictions - say childrens clothes or clothing articles costing less than $X may be exempt in certain states/cities, or for certain periods - say back-to-school shopping time, it does not work to have them hidden in the price tag.

 

Also sales tax rates vary from state to state and city to city. Many of us like to be advised of how much local government is costing us - rather than having it hidden in the price.

[cruising cockroach]

Levi Strauss and other companies practice price discrimination in various countries, and jeans price in Europe vs. North America is one such example. Doesn't mean it's right. There have been some attempts to curtail this.

 

Even various parts of The Limited umbrella of brands (I'm thinking Victoria's Secret) price discriminates in the U.S. - different catalogs sent out at the same time to different people had different prices for the same product. And even in this day, cookies on the internet may result in blindly-loyal customers being priced higher than those who shop around (and clear out their cookies).

 

Prisendam's captain as of 2 years ago was the master who oversaw the construction of the ship for Royal Viking.

[Lizzie68]

You clearly don't know many Canadians

 

In comparison, it's almost true. Have you seen the binge drinking that goes on in the UK?:eek: Or most places where Brits go on vacation. And before anyone flames me - I'm a Brit! And Canadian by choice.

 

But seriously, you can't take offense at such silly generalisations.

[chrispb]

Because sales taxes in the US are not universal in most jurisdictions - say childrens clothes or clothing articles costing less than $X may be exempt in certain states/cities, or for certain periods - say back-to-school shopping time, it does not work to have them hidden in the price tag.

 

Also sales tax rates vary from state to state and city to city. Many of us like to be advised of how much local government is costing us - rather than having it hidden in the price.

 

Yes, I realise it varies between states but a better idea would be to display both prices or at least the amount of tax that will be added at the till. I hate doing maths while shopping:eek:

 

Childrens' clothes are exempt here:) but are still more expensive than in the US generally.

[AlohaPride]

That is so correct! Hasn't anybody heard of the exchange rate?

 

Absolutely right plus customs duties which are much higher than U.S. import taxes. Maybe, that accounts for the reason why I can buy a bottle of Yellow Tail cheaper in San Francisco than Sydney.

 

Most people prefer to blame some sinister foreign corporate conspiracy than recognize the fact that it is their own government who is picking their pockets.

 

You must be kidding! Does no one in Europe understand that the 15% to 20% value added tax that their governments impose upon all their purchases, or the import duties applied, might have something to do with what they pay for their purchases?

Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly.

[cruising cockroach]

As far as HAL goes, I don't think there are any taxes or cost differences that justify their price discrimination strategy. I don't like it either so I'll pay and play whatever best deal I can get, and to h@ll with Carnival Corp's profits.

[navybankerteacher]

Yes, I realise it varies between states but a better idea would be to display both prices or at least the amount of tax that will be added at the till. I hate doing maths while shopping:eek:

 

 

But aren't you "doing maths while shopping" if you keep any track of your expenditures once you buy more than one item?

[doublebzz]

Really? Where, when? I thought the majority of captains were Dutch anyway.

 

I'm with you. My experience has been that all the ship's line officers (non-hotel staff) are Dutch. In fact, that's the only connection with Holland on HAL ships of which I'm aware.

[Stratheden]

But aren't you "doing maths while shopping" if you keep any track of your expenditures once you buy more than one item?

 

It is illegal in Australia to display a price that is exclusive of Tax (It's called GST here). What you see is what you pay. If you want to know how much tax you are paying it is on the docket.

 

I dislike going to the checkout and discovering the price on the ticket is not the actual cost.

[navybankerteacher]

It is illegal in Australia to display a price that is exclusive of Tax (It's called GST here). What you see is what you pay. If you want to know how much tax you are paying it is on the docket.

 

I dislike going to the checkout and discovering the price on the ticket is not the actual cost.

 

The price on the ticket IS the cost. Complaining about a tax being added - which practice serves the valuable purpose of letting people know the cost of government may give you comfort - but you should learn to live with local customs when you travel.

 

But I suppose, you must also protest being misled by your employer because you do not actually receive the salary promised - because income tax is withheld. In both cases, the difference is the direct result of government taxation.

[LindaM]

I'm with you. My experience has been that all the ship's line officers (non-hotel staff) are Dutch. In fact, that's the only connection with Holland on HAL ships of which I'm aware.

 

Yes, many Captains ARE Dutch, but you are totally missing my point. The announcements were in Dutch---by the Captain and the Cruise Director. Is that the usual on a HAL ship? And, is it usual to take off an english speaking Captain so announcements can be made it Dutch? This is not a Dutch owned company, as far as I know. Am I wrong????

[LindaM]

Really? Where, when? I thought the majority of captains were Dutch anyway.

 

You missed my point about Dutch shore excursions and announcements. And, that the english speaking Captain was taken off deliberately because of the language barrier. It would be nice if people would read entire posts before responding...there'd be fewer misunderstandings.

[bahrain_not_dubai!]

Most people prefer to blame some sinister foreign corporate conspiracy than recognize the fact that it is their own government who is picking their pockets.

 

It isn't a corporate conspiracy, it is companies charging what they think various regional markets will (and do) bare. My jeans cost me £85 from the UK ($141.89)- this includes a 20% tax, which accords to £17.00, or $28.38. So, when VAT is removed, you still have a $113.51 pair of jeans- the same jeans that is on sale in the US for $47.00 as per the Levis website. The simple fact is the brand is positioned as a pseudo 'luxury' brand in the UK, while being an everydman brand in the US.

 

This is very prevalent in the UK in the fashion industry, with Ralph Lauren being another example- I can see the same jacket listed for £285 ($475.56) on the UK website and lists for $185 on the US one.

 

As per the GCC market, the entire area is tax free and as such it was the cruise lines themselves trying to wind up the price.

[Northshorecruisers]

Maybe they charge you more because of your preconceived notions that are totally inaccurate. You already have a bad attitude and I doubt that even the wonderful crew on HAL will turn you around.

 

Bottom line, if you don't see the value you are getting for your money, don't book. Plenty of other people would be happy to take your place and HAL won't have a problem selling that cabin to someone who will be happy to be there and pay the price.

[AlohaPride]

It isn't a corporate conspiracy, it is companies charging what they think various regional markets will (and do) bare. My jeans cost me £85 from the UK ($141.89)- this includes a 20% tax, which accords to £17.00, or $28.38. So, when VAT is removed, you still have a $113.51 pair of jeans- the same jeans that is on sale in the US for $47.00 as per the Levis website. The simple fact is the brand is positioned as a pseudo 'luxury' brand in the UK, while being an everydman brand in the US.

 

This is very prevalent in the UK in the fashion industry, with Ralph Lauren being another example- I can see the same jacket listed for £285 ($475.56) on the UK website and lists for $185 on the US one.

 

As per the GCC market, the entire area is tax free and as such it was the cruise lines themselves trying to wind up the price.

 

It goes the other way too. Look at cars. In America BMW, Mercedes, and even Volkswagon are all more expensive than they are in Europe. My friends, while stationed in Germany, found that Chevrolet was far more expensive there than in the United States.

Edited August 17, 2014 by AlohaPride

[cruising cockroach]

Yes, many Captains ARE Dutch, but you are totally missing my point. The announcements were in Dutch---by the Captain and the Cruise Director. Is that the usual on a HAL ship? And, is it usual to take off an english speaking Captain so announcements can be made it Dutch? This is not a Dutch owned company, as far as I know. Am I wrong????

 

Not Netherlander-owned but certainly flagged in the Netherlands. Ship crew, by international agreement, can be from anywhere except certain protectionist countries...

[cruising cockroach]

It goes the other way too. Look at cars. In America BMW, Mercedes, and even Volkswagon are all more expensive than they are in Europe. My friends, while stationed in Germany, found that Chevrolet was far more expensive there than in the United States.

 

The former isn't true, apparently, when you start comparing what are standard options and what aren't. Many low-end models sold in Europe aren't available in North America as M-B is marketed as a premium brand in the U.S. while they're (and also BMW) used for taxis in Europe.

 

One advantage the U.S. has is, for now, being the largest market with pretty much the same standards (except for California and a few other low-pollution jurisdictions) and thus creates a very competitive market. Most vehicles in Europe also don;t have the bumper requirements found in the U.S. I'd wager volume sold in the U.S. for the higher-end MBs and BMWs is higher than in the home market.

 

As far as Chevrolet goes, it is a niche brand selling certain vehicles like the Corvette, Camaro and other unique vehicles that do not have equivalents (or near-identical models) from the Opel/Vauxhall lineup so a premium can be charged. I can't imagine buying a lower-end Chevy in Europe when I can buy a better Opel. You also have a much smaller volume of Chevrolets shipped to Europe which have to be modified for European standards. Low volumes = higher unit costs.

[iancal]

We get 'cruise specials' from Barrhead in the UK.

 

Generally speaking, their prices in GBP match what we pay in USD and sometimes even Canadian dollars.

[cruising cockroach]

Because sales taxes in the US are not universal in most jurisdictions - say childrens clothes or clothing articles costing less than $X may be exempt in certain states/cities, or for certain periods - say back-to-school shopping time, it does not work to have them hidden in the price tag.

 

Also sales tax rates vary from state to state and city to city. Many of us like to be advised of how much local government is costing us - rather than having it hidden in the price.

 

+1. Until I started doing cost-border shopping (which in the U.S. may mean a city), I didn't realise and appreciate this.

[AlohaPride]

The former isn't true, apparently, when you start comparing what are standard options and what aren't. Many low-end models sold in Europe aren't available in North America as M-B is marketed as a premium brand in the U.S. while they're (and also BMW) used for taxis in Europe.

 

One advantage the U.S. has is, for now, being the largest market with pretty much the same standards (except for California and a few other low-pollution jurisdictions) and thus creates a very competitive market. Most vehicles in Europe also don;t have the bumper requirements found in the U.S. I'd wager volume sold in the U.S. for the higher-end MBs and BMWs is higher than in the home market.

 

As far as Chevrolet goes, it is a niche brand selling certain vehicles like the Corvette, Camaro and other unique vehicles that do not have equivalents (or near-identical models) from the Opel/Vauxhall lineup so a premium can be charged. I can't imagine buying a lower-end Chevy in Europe when I can buy a better Opel. You also have a much smaller volume of Chevrolets shipped to Europe which have to be modified for European standards. Low volumes = higher unit costs.

 

I'll have to tell my friends in Europe that their experiences are not real. . . I've had a few friends in the military who buy their BMWs or other "European" cars in Germany before coming back to the states because they are so much cheaper. I also had a friend complain about buying a bottom of the line Chevrolet Van for his family for twice what he would have paid here. Both in the last few months.

Edited August 17, 2014 by AlohaPride

[cruising cockroach]

I'll have to tell my friends in Europe that their experiences are not real. . . I've had a few friends in the military who buy their BMWs or other "European" cars in Germany before coming back to the states because they are so much cheaper.

 

That may well be because they're buying the cars without paying German taxes (19%) which is largely included in the price of cars in Europe, as well as military discounts. What's more, they can use the cars there and import them into the U.S. as used cars and are assessed a lower value for import and sales taxes than buying a new car in the U.S. Transportation of personal belongings for military is also (or was) free.

 

Also, are the same models being compared? The standard engine on many models are (or were) smaller for European vehicles than North America models.

 

Here's a good comparison for what appears to be identical models:

 

BMW 740i

US list price starts at US$ 74,000 exc. state/local sales tax.

 

German list price is €80,000 which should be €67,226 once you take out the 19% VAT. At the current exchange rate of € 0.746/USD, the German price before tax works out to US$ 90,116....

 

Your turn......

 

 

I also had a friend complain about buying a bottom of the line Chevrolet Van for his family for twice what he would have paid here. Both in the last few months.

 

Again, how many Chevy vans do you see in Europe when you can buy a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter which is probably much better built, designed and assembled vehicle (other than you can't get it in an automatic without a huge price differential)? His miskate was not buying a Sprinter (also sold as the Sprinter in North America badged as a Dodge). I can't say I saw a single U.S. van in France the 5 months I spent there last winter but I did see a few Corvettes and very few pickup trucks (specialties as Europe doesn't have anything equivalent.)

Edited August 17, 2014 by cruising cockroach
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