This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[cruiseing marly]

If that would work, they (probably many) cruise lines would have done that long ago.

Not enough adult North Americans still smoking. While certainly many nationalities sail the ships but the majority of HAL's guests are from No. America but for when the ship is 'down under'.

 

On the last three we were on the majority of the passengers were Aussie all cruises were in europe . Between Americans Canadians And Aussies was about 70 percent of the ship. Less than 10 percent i would say didn't speak english as there first language . There were very few smokers on board ! Did not have any issues with smoke on our balcony except only one night in seventy five cruise days . I know that it could happen that on the next cruise we could end up next to a chain smoker thus affecting our balcony in a negative way ! Because of the smoking policy would have no recourse ! That is why it must be changed. There have been less and less smokers on our cruises even with HAL being one of the last cruise lines catering mostly to english first language allowing it. Its time they woke up !!!!

[sammiedawg]

In the US the smoking population is 17.8 per cent per the CDC, not sure where the 22 per cent comes in.

The best news is fewer young people are starting to smoke. In my community I rarely see a kid smoking. I rarely see adults smoking in the circles and business community I frequent.

Not to insult anyone but the 17.8 per cent is largely comprised of people from poorer socioeconomic and demographic populations, most could not afford a HAL cruise.

 

Holland America is an American market cruise line. Their more lenient smoking policies seem to reflect marketplace weakness. Upthread someone quoted a Berlitz analysis of cruise lines that stated HAL is attractive to smokers. What an embarrassing tagline.

Edited August 22, 2015 by sammiedawg

[Charles4515]

In the US the smoking population is 17.8 per cent per the CDC, not sure where the 22 per cent comes in.

The best news is fewer young people are starting to smoke. In my community I rarely see a kid smoking. I rarely see adults smoking in the circles and business community I frequent.

Not to insult anyone but the 17.8 per cent is largely comprised of people from poorer socioeconomic and demographic populations, most could not afford a HAL cruise.

 

Holland America is an American market cruise line. Their more lenient smoking policies seem to reflect marketplace weakness. Upthread someone quoted a Berlitz analysis of cruise lines that stated HAL is attractive to smokers. What an embarrassing tagline.

 

There is some kind of weakness. I was getting quotes for a week later this year and the lowest fares were on Holland America and their balcony prices were the lowest too. Not that much higher than an outside. Maybe people don't want to book balconies where there is a chance of being impacted by smoke

[mommyto2girls]

As of January 1, 2015 42.1 million Americans still smoke (as per the CDC). My DH and I do but would not consider ourselves chain smokers, we do not smoke in our house but do on our high rise balcony of our building. We have zero options for cruising other than NCL's Garden Villa which we have cruised or HAL. We have booked our next cruise on HAL it will be our 3rd. I would never be inconsiderate to my next door neighbors on my balcony so I am grateful to HAL for not changing their policy. We spend thousands of dollars to vacation in suite rooms and have never had a complaint from a neighing balcony. There is certainly a market for HAL to keep smoking on their balconies.

[Lizzie68]

As of January 1, 2015 42.1 million Americans still smoke (as per the CDC). My DH and I do but would not consider ourselves chain smokers, we do not smoke in our house but do on our high rise balcony of our building. We have zero options for cruising other than NCL's Garden Villa which we have cruised or HAL. We have booked our next cruise on HAL it will be our 3rd. I would never be inconsiderate to my next door neighbors on my balcony so I am grateful to HAL for not changing their policy. We spend thousands of dollars to vacation in suite rooms and have never had a complaint from a neighing balcony. There is certainly a market for HAL to keep smoking on their balconies.

 

Apologies in advance - I really am not correcting spelling because this was obviously an auto-correct or typo, but it struck me as really funny.:D

Edited August 22, 2015 by Lizzie68

[Fouremco]

As of January 1, 2015 42.1 million Americans still smoke (as per the CDC). My DH and I do but would not consider ourselves chain smokers, we do not smoke in our house but do on our high rise balcony of our building. We have zero options for cruising other than NCL's Garden Villa which we have cruised or HAL. We have booked our next cruise on HAL it will be our 3rd. I would never be inconsiderate to my next door neighbors on my balcony so I am grateful to HAL for not changing their policy. We spend thousands of dollars to vacation in suite rooms and have never had a complaint from a neighing balcony. There is certainly a market for HAL to keep smoking on their balconies.

What smokers don't seem to understand is that every time they light up, especially in pairs, they are being inconsiderate of others in the vicinity. You may not have received complaints from those on neighbouring balconies, but that is probably because they chose not to be confrontational. BTW, we too spend thousands of dollars for our cruises, and really don't like losing the use of our balconies.

[CRUZBUDS]

Apologies in advance - I really am not correcting spelling because this was obviously an auto-correct or typo, but it struck me as really funny.:D

 

 

:D:D:D

 

[Aquahound]

We spend thousands of dollars to vacation in suite rooms and have never had a complaint from a neighing balcony.

 

That you know of. I don't complain directly to smokers who are doing what's allowed. I complain to the cruise line by way of their survey and I let them know how I feel about their policies. I'm sure this is the case with the majority of people who have been bothered by smoking neighbors.

[cruz chic]

That you know of. I don't complain directly to smokers who are doing what's allowed. I complain to the cruise line by way of their survey and I let them know how I feel about their policies. I'm sure this is the case with the majority of people who have been bothered by smoking neighbors.

 

There is no way I would complain when smokers are doing what is allowed. I do complain on the surveys.

[Charles4515]

There is no way I would complain when smokers are doing what is allowed. I do complain on the surveys.

 

 

Same here.

 

I am not going to say anything to my cabin neighbors when what they are doing is allowed. I am not going to ask them to stop. I do tell the cruise line in their survey that they should change the policy.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[POA1]

In the US the smoking population is 17.8 per cent per the CDC, not sure where the 22 per cent comes in.

 

Twenty-two percent is about right when you factor in the age of the average cruise passenger. You have 17.8% estimated for people under 25, but they're not exactly the cruising public.

[POA1]

Not to insult anyone but the 17.8 per cent is largely comprised of people from poorer socioeconomic and demographic populations, most could not afford a HAL cruise.

 

There is almost no correlation between smoking and income. Here's the research, with all the statistical analysis included. There is a strong correlation between age, education, and smoking rates.

 

http://www.academia.edu/9897709/Relationship_between_income_and_smoking_under_considerations_of_simultaneity

[OlsSalt]

Any by way of contrast, this was found in a recent member review of the luxury German cruise ship Europa - Hapag-Lloyd:

 

And the minuses:

 

• Smoking policy: We knew about the policy before we booked, so it was no surprise, just quite unpleasant. Smoking is allowed on all decks, all verandas, and two of the bars (Sansibar and Havana Club) also allow pipe and cigar smoking.

 

In the Piano Bar, smoking allowed in one corner, but since the bar is located in the Atrium, which is open and the main public area on Deck 4, you might as well be smoking all over.

 

Restaurants inside (main dining room, Venezia and Dieter Muller) are non-smoking, but you get to inhale the cigarette, cigar and pipe smoke from Havana Club on your way down the corridor to get there ☹ Lido Café allows smoking outside on one side.

[cruise kitty]

There is almost no correlation between smoking and income. Here's the research, with all the statistical analysis included. There is a strong correlation between age, education, and smoking rates.

 

http://www.academia.edu/9897709/Relationship_between_income_and_smoking_under_considerations_of_simultaneity

 

 

Here's information from a more up to date study:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/01/14/why-the-wealthy-stopped-smoking-but-the-poor-didnt/

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

Here's information from a more up to date study:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/01/14/why-the-wealthy-stopped-smoking-but-the-poor-didnt/

 

That's more intuitive as well.

 

Tom

[Fouremco]

That's more intuitive as well.

I agree. There's a known correlation non-smoking and education, and between education and income, so it's logical that there's be a correlation between non-smoking and income.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Fouremco

[Host Walt]

Please stay on topic. This thread is about HAL's On Board Smoking Policies as stated in the headline and in the originating post.

 

Because Cruise Critic is a website focused on cruising and not on smoking issues except to the extent they are part of the cruise experience, discussions about the demographic characteristics of smokers and other non-cruise matters are off topic.

 

Thanks.

[kftw]

Thanks Host Walt.

Edited August 22, 2015 by kftw
auto spelling

[Joanandjoe]

I hate to say it, but this thread is mostly about beating a dead horse. There's not much more to be said on the subject of smoking, but I'll put in my 2 cents anyway.

 

While there's no way to prove it, apparently Carnival corporate management made a conscious decision to continue to allow balcony smoking on one of its two premium lines (HAL, but not Princess) and on half of the ships on its luxury line (Seabourn), in order to attract smokers. Other ships catering to the US market do not allow smoking on balconies, and that's as it should be. Thus, although we have a HAL cruise booked for next March, we will probably cancel unless HAL changes its smoking policy. We consider such a policy change to be a long shot.

 

I am extremely sensitive to smoking, and can smell cigarettes (on my morning walk) of people who are a block or more ahead of me, if the wind is blowing from the smoker to me or if the smoker has passed the spot where I'm walking within the past two or three minutes. Smoke makes me cough and gives me headaches. On my last cruise, I felt sick on the rare occasions when I couldn't avoid passing an indoor area that allowed smoking. A smoker on a balcony on either side of me, or directly above or below me, would make the balcony of my Signature Suite unusable, and I possibly would be able to smell the smoke in my stateroom. That's beyond my control, and would ruin my cruise. I can't take that chance, even if its only 20% or less.

 

The sad part is that HAL is the only premium or luxury cruise line that sails out of Tampa, which is close to Joan's sister. HAL also has a ship size, vibe (other than smoking), and itineraries that are much better for us that Princess or Celebrity (and far, far better than Carnival, RCCL, or NCL). Our trip next March would have been (believe it or not) our first ever winter vacation; but the smoking policy of HAL is likely to wipe out that vacation.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Joanandjoe

[Sow There]

...

While there's no way to prove it, apparently Carnival corporate management made a conscious decision to continue to allow balcony smoking on one of its two premium lines (HAL, but not Princess) and on half of the ships on its luxury line (Seabourn), in order to attract smokers. Other ships catering to the US market do not allow smoking on balconies, and that's as it should be. ...

This makes total sense. As I've said before we've been cruising for almost 30 years and our first cruise was to Alaska on the Nieuw Amsterdam. There were no balconies on the ship, nor were there balconies on any other major lines that I am aware of. Smoking was permitted just about everywhere and to the best of my knowledge there was no major hue and cry made by non-smokers.

 

Balconies, which were introduced in the nineties, followed the norm, smoking permitted.

 

Carnival Corp's Carnival Cruise Line, responding to an increase in anti-smoking pressures generally, decided in 1998 to take one Fantasy class newbuild, the Carnival Paradise, and institute a total no smoking policy. Pax caught smoking were fined $250 and tossed off the ship at the next port.

 

In 2003, due to lousy bookings, Carnival dropped the strict no smoking policy but retained the no smoking on balconies policy.

 

In other words, once burned, twice shy. They responded to the pressure of the anti-smoker pressure and found out that the general public took a "ho hum" attitude.

 

So, Joanandjoe is probably right on point. Carnival made a call with its higher end cruise line in the "mid-market" category not to turn away the smoking passenger who is willing to pay a premium to bool a balcony so they can smoke in the comfort of their own quarters, albeit just outside and not in their own stateroom.

 

I am part of the 80% (a questionable stat often repeated in this thread) who don't smoke but I'm also ambivalent because I'm not bothered by others who smoke or by the aroma. (I don't understand the smokers' motivation to spend so much on cigarettes,etc., but that's their business.)

 

In other words, live and let live. We'll spend our money cruising on a ship on my favorite cruise line that goes where we want to go. If we get better booking opportunities because folks won't book on a ship that permits balcony smoking, that's a bonus for us.

 

Bottom line, if the economic pressures cause CCL to tighten up its smoking policies on HAL or any other of its lines and ships, no sweat. Won't make any difference to us.

[midwest 852]

I've been out on the balcony for about 8 hrs in the last 2 days no smell of smoke.

I did notice that two cabins forward of mine are smokers but so far no smell. I have asthma and very sensitive to smoke.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

...

 

In 2003, due to lousy bookings, Carnival dropped the strict no smoking policy but retained the no smoking on balconies policy.

 

...

 

Is that correct (that Carnival has had a no smoking policy for their balconies for 12 years) ? Or are you referring to only the Paradise, on which I've never sailed.

 

I want to say that they only went smoke free fleet wide (on balconies) in the last 2-3 years.

 

Tom

[Aquahound]

Is that correct (that Carnival has had a no smoking policy for their balconies for 12 years) ? Or are you referring to only the Paradise, on which I've never sailed.

 

I want to say that they only went smoke free fleet wide (on balconies) in the last 2-3 years.

 

No, he is not correct. Not even close. Carnival certainly has not been smoke free on balconies since 2003.

[LUPY48]

Carnival curtailed balcony smoking in Oct. of 2014. Trust me, as a smoker, I KNOW this.

[avian777]

... I am part of the 80% (a questionable stat often repeated in this thread) who don't smoke but I'm also ambivalent because I'm not bothered by others who smoke or by the aroma. (I don't understand the smokers' motivation to spend so much on cigarettes,etc., but that's their business.)

 

In other words, live and let live. We'll spend our money cruising on a ship on my favorite cruise line that goes where we want to go. If we get better booking opportunities because folks won't book on a ship that permits balcony smoking, that's a bonus for us.

 

Bottom line, if the economic pressures cause CCL to tighten up its smoking policies on HAL or any other of its lines and ships, no sweat. Won't make any difference to us.

 

Couldn't have said it any better myself. I do, however, sympathize with anyone who is (genuinely) hyper-sensitive to smoke and wish there were some way to accommodate his/her needs without banning all smoking in all areas of the ship.