Hanidcapped-recent knee injury-no hc cabins available

[imsulin]

Many times, people are assigned Handicapped cabins without even knowing it. Most cruise lines have very few designated handicapped cabins, and they go pretty quickly. Unfortunately, the ADA guidelines and requirements do not extend to cruise ships, as most of the lines are foreign-registered. You can always go on-line to check out deck plans, and Handicapped cabins are usually notated with whatever symbol. Yes...it's very sad! Also, most cruise lines do not offer shore excursions for the physically disabled. I work with disabled clients, and I also think that the money factor outweighs the human factor, and it really does suck! Good luck on your cruise!

[Knuklehead]

Hi-my sis is sailing this Sat on the Diamond to Alaska. She just injured her knee and will be a wheelchair for her cruise. We called Princess customer srv today-no handicapped cabins available, we were told ship is sold out for 8/27. Does anyone know if there is a seperate dept we could contact about the possibility of switching to a handicapped cabin, maybe they put 1 or 2 aside for this reason or wait list? Getting a dr note would be no problem. she does have full insurance but doesnt want to cancel out...any suggestions.Dont know if it makes a difference, she is a platnium member. Thanks much, Liz

It would have to be an Alaska cruise at the end of August . Talk about prime time .

[calikak]

imsulin, see critterchick's post, she's right that there was a recent US Supreme Court case that says the ADA does in fact apply to cruise ships, despite them being foreign-flagged. The name of the case is Spector v. Norwegian Cruise Line. If you do a search on CNN I'm sure there's a story there about it. I'm not familiar at all with maritime law so I really don't understand how/why they can apply the ADA, but not other US laws like labor laws. But that seems to be the outcome of the case. They did limit it so that the ADA is trumped by the safety at sea rules, but I doubt there's a safety at sea rule that would require them to offer accessible cabins to people without disabilities.

[imsulin]

calikak...thanks so much for the information! I'll be sure to check it out! One thing I'd like to say, though, is that NCL (Norwegian Cruise Lines) does have two ships that are American-registered and crewed, as they only do Hawaiian cruises without throwing in that foreign Port of Call. (Pride of America, and Pride of Aloha...I think). It's very refreshing to see, though, that the ADA has rightfully made itself known to at least a limited type of foreign travel! Thanks so much again, calikak!

[bdjam]

Interesting thread. Princess was once touted as one of the best cruise lines in the industry for the physically impaired. With that in mind, I wonder how many handicapped cabins are on board vs. the number of disabled who actually do book. And I wonder what would happen to the business model if these cabins were held until the last minute before sailing and no one had booked them. Seems that with proper planning it would be relatively easy to get a handicapped cabin…I plan my cruises about a year out so that I can pick a specific cabin…

 

As for becoming handicapped a short time before cruising, I’m sure that almost never happens. It’s unfortunate that Princess cannot accommodate this person – perhaps using their insurance to cancel and travel at a better time (either after healing or when a handicapped room is available) is the right answer.

 

And I was under the impression that while the Supreme Court ruled against NCL in the case of ADA access, it had to do with access and not the number of available cabins. I seem to remember the ship in question was Norway, which is now out of service and which was built in the early 60s, before ADA regulations were in effect. The reports that I read about this case indicated there would be little or no changes to the ships currently sailing as most meet the standards.

[WCAB]

For our trip in April on the Coral, my Mom had booked a handicapped cabin about seven months out. We had last checked the personlizer about four days before our cruise and everything was fine. When we boarded the ship we learned that they had pulled Mom and Dad from the handicapped cabin and put them into a regular inside room. This made the trip difficult as Mom had a wheel chair and a walker. We got our TA involved and even wrote to Princess to try and find out how this could have happened but all we got was a standard form letter, it did nothing to answer the question as to how this happened. The TA had indicated that she needed the handicapped room when he booked. Our new TA has locked down our cabin for the next cruise, so hopefully it will not happen again.

 

Carol

[Pam in CA]

For our trip in April on the Coral, my Mom had booked a handicapped cabin about seven months out. We had last checked the personlizer about four days before our cruise and everything was fine. When we boarded the ship we learned that they had pulled Mom and Dad from the handicapped cabin and put them into a regular inside room. This made the trip difficult as Mom had a wheel chair and a walker. We got our TA involved and even wrote to Princess to try and find out how this could have happened but all we got was a standard form letter, it did nothing to answer the question as to how this happened. The TA had indicated that she needed the handicapped room when he booked. Our new TA has locked down our cabin for the next cruise, so hopefully it will not happen again.

Carol, your TA screwed up your cruise in April so it's unlikely that Princess would have written you that your TA had messed you up. He should have made sure that your cabin was "No Upgrade" and not blamed Princess for his oversight.

[WCAB]

Carol, your TA screwed up your cruise in April so it's unlikely that Princess would have written you that your TA had messed you up. He should have made sure that your cabin was "No Upgrade" and not blamed Princess for his oversight.

 

 

You could be right, that is why we now have a new TA. What made it bad is that for several months, all we got was finger pointing. We really just wanted to know how to avoid this ever happening again.

 

Carol

[Iamthesea]

WOW Carol, I would not have put up for this. From a handicapped to a regular inside is not an "upgrade." Was the origianl booked cabin an inside?

[calikak]

bdjam, if I remember right, the plaintiff alleged quite a few ADA violations, most having to do with public areas but also some having to do with cabins--I think the issue was that he was being charged extra for a cabin because it was accessible. The issue addressed by the Supreme Court wasn't whether the ships met the ADA guidelines, it was whether those guidelines applied at all, given that the ships are foreign-flagged. The Court ruled that the ADA does apply, but it can be trumped by the international safety at sea rules. If I'm not mistaken, they sent it back down to the lower courts to determine whether there was an actual ADA violation in this case.

 

If I'm not mistaken, all of the Princess ships sailing today were built post-ADA (it became a law in 1990) so I would imagine that they were designed with this in mind. In an industry with a lot of customers who are senior citizens, it just makes good business sense to make your facilities accessible. The problem seems to be not a structural one, but an administrative one, namely, that the cruise line's policy for allocating accessible cabins doesn't give priority to people who actually need them. To me, it's like if a shopping mall put in accessible parking spaces, but then just let anyone park there even if they didn't have a disabled parking permit.

 

I doubt we'll see any major changes in accessibility issues until after the Access Board finalizes the still-draft passenger vessel accessibility guidelines. Even then, the guidelines don't become binding until the Department of Justice formally adopts them, which might take several years or might not happen at all. Some of the Access Board's guidelines have never been adopted by DOJ.

[taterules]

To me, it's like if a shopping mall put in accessible parking spaces, but then just let anyone park there even if they didn't have a disabled parking permit.

 

I think the difference here is that even by reserving the handicapped spot just for handicapped people, a shopping mall still has plenty of spaces for the other people. However, on a cruise ship, where the other cabins may sell out, the cruise line can either sell handicapped cabins to everyone or reserve them and quite possibly take a loss if they don't get filled.

[WCAB]

WOW Carol, I would not have put up for this. From a handicapped to a regular inside is not an "upgrade." Was the origianl booked cabin an inside?

 

Yes the handicapped room was an inside. They are just much bigger rooms and doorways. Lucky the closet are pretty good size and by folding the wheelcair up they could store it there, when not in use. Princess considered this an upgrade because of deck position but for them, it made the trip very difficult. Princess said the TA gave permission, the TA said they did not, so who knows. Just to be on the safe side, we have a new TA, who knows of the problem and has said this will never happen as along as she is our TA.

 

Carol

[Gramps25]

For those that are interested, you can go to the Supreme Court's web site and in the search area, type in "cruise ship" and you will be able to read the .pdf file of the entire ruling.

 

I'm not saying that 59 pages worth of legal jargon is the most exciting thing ever, but if you have a few spare minutes.....

 

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/

[calikak]

taterules, that's a good point. I guess I'd just figured that the GTY system would take care of that problem, but now that I think abotu it, I'm not quite sure how that would work out. Perhaps they could hold off on selling/filling those cabins until final payment is due, and then start selling them to the public and/or putting GTY bookings in them? Maybe that would be a good compromise. It just seems like the current system makes it harder for people with disabilities to take a cruise, since they have to plan very far in advance to ensure there will be an accessible cabin available, while the rest of us can book at the last minute if we want.

[kryos]

imsulin, see critterchick's post, she's right that there was a recent US Supreme Court case that says the ADA does in fact apply to cruise ships, despite them being foreign-flagged. The name of the case is Spector v. Norwegian Cruise Line. If you do a search on CNN I'm sure there's a story there about it.

That's what I meant when I said I'd contact an attorney that specialized in ADA type issues. I know the cruiselines have to comply with ADA laws now, and I'll bet a nicely worded letter from him or her would send Princess scurrying to check all the reservations on those handicapped cabins to ensure none of them were being occupied by TABs.

 

Fair is fair and this would not be a case of someone seeking to stir up trouble. Those cabins are designated for people who need to use a wheelchair and thus those are the types of passengers who should have priority on them. The able-bodied passenger should have to move, and that should be made clear to them when booking.

 

If getting an attorney involved is not to your liking ... and if Princess holds the line in refusing to give you a handicapped cabin, I would contact the consumer advocate at my local television station. I'll bet they would love to get involved in something like this, and could really get something done for you.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

I think the difference here is that even by reserving the handicapped spot just for handicapped people, a shopping mall still has plenty of spaces for the other people. However, on a cruise ship, where the other cabins may sell out, the cruise line can either sell handicapped cabins to everyone or reserve them and quite possibly take a loss if they don't get filled.

They can rent them out after final payment date. There are always last minute bookings and there are not so many handicapped cabins that Princess would be stuck holding any inventory if they waited until after final payment was due to rent them to TABs.

 

Also, if they really don't want to wait to rent them, they can simply inform the TABs that they can have the cabin as long as a wheelchair dependent passenger doesn't need it. If they do, then the TAB is moved to a similar non-handicapped cabin.

 

Very simple ...

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[calikak]

rita, those are all valid options for handling the situation. Just to add one more to the list, the Department of Justice handles these kinds of ADA complaints. I have no idea how long their complaint process takes (my guess is more than just a couple of weeks), but their website is www.ada.gov. They'd probably have a lot more info about the ADA and what it requires and how to address the situation than those of us here do.

[kryos]

rita, those are all valid options for handling the situation. Just to add one more to the list, the Department of Justice handles these kinds of ADA complaints. I have no idea how long their complaint process takes (my guess is more than just a couple of weeks), but their website is www.ada.gov. They'd probably have a lot more info about the ADA and what it requires and how to address the situation than those of us here do.

Good point. :)

 

I just thought the media would be an expedient way of handling the problem for the OP. No cost, fast action. No business likes the thought of bad publicity, huh? :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[calikak]

rita, that's a very good point. The media does tend to move a lot faster than the federal government. :D

[bdjam]

That's what I meant when I said I'd contact an attorney that specialized in ADA type issues. I know the cruiselines have to comply with ADA laws now, and I'll bet a nicely worded letter from him or her would send Princess scurrying to check all the reservations on those handicapped cabins to ensure none of them were being occupied by TABs.

 

Fair is fair and this would not be a case of someone seeking to stir up trouble. Those cabins are designated for people who need to use a wheelchair and thus those are the types of passengers who should have priority on them. The able-bodied passenger should have to move, and that should be made clear to them when booking.

 

If getting an attorney involved is not to your liking ... and if Princess holds the line in refusing to give you a handicapped cabin, I would contact the consumer advocate at my local television station. I'll bet they would love to get involved in something like this, and could really get something done for you.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

This is not a situation of Princess denying a handicapped person an appropriate cabin. This is a situation of someone becoming temporarily disabled after the fact. I don’t know how Princess can be handed the responsibility in this case. Is the ship sold out? If it is, then Princess is expected to poll the whole ship load of passengers to see if someone wants to move? Fair is fair, but unreasonable is unreasonable.

[Knuklehead]

This is not a situation of Princess denying a handicapped person an appropriate cabin. This is a situation of someone becoming temporarily disabled after the fact. I don’t know how Princess can be handed the responsibility in this case. Is the ship sold out? If it is, then Princess is expected to poll the whole ship load of passengers to see if someone wants to move? Fair is fair, but unreasonable is unreasonable.

It's an Alaskan cruise at the end of August . Sold out ? Couldn't be . Who goes to Alaska at the end of August . now , mid December ,you might have a problem. ;)

[skarletohara]

This is not a situation of Princess denying a handicapped person an appropriate cabin. This is a situation of someone becoming temporarily disabled after the fact. I don’t know how Princess can be handed the responsibility in this case. Is the ship sold out? If it is, then Princess is expected to poll the whole ship load of passengers to see if someone wants to move? Fair is fair, but unreasonable is unreasonable.

 

bdjam,

Well said.

[Lizzybell]

I am happy to report that my sis saw an ortho specialist this am & she is able to get around on crutches at this point. The timing is crappy, espicially with how big the Diamond is and getting around while on board and in the ports isnt going to be easy. But hey-she is on a Princess cruise, find a deck chair-get that bad knee up, order a beverage and behold the beauty of Alaska.

 

An accident like this could happen to any of us at any time. This has opened my eyes to handicapped cabins-imo-Dont book them unless you are handicapped. leave them for passengers who REQUIRE the extra space for wheel chair accessability. It isnt right for a non wheelchair bound passanger

to intentially book a HC cabin to have an extra 40 Sq ft. By doing this you are taking a cabin away from someone who not only needs but requires that extra space to function.

 

Princess needs to address their policies re assigning HC cabins-While I agree that Princess cannot hold them for last minute accidents etc, those HC cabins shouldnt be assigned just randomly to non HCpassangers months before their cruise(as we have seen by posts from non-HC cruisers-they didnt even know they a HC cabin until check in). Handicapped cruisers have stated they have to book 1-2yrs out just to get a HC cabin-could the random assigning of HC cabins have anything to do with it??

 

Thanks to all for your feedback. Liz

[Host CJSKIDS]

This is not a situation of Princess denying a handicapped person an appropriate cabin. This is a situation of someone becoming temporarily disabled after the fact. I don’t know how Princess can be handed the responsibility in this case. Is the ship sold out? If it is, then Princess is expected to poll the whole ship load of passengers to see if someone wants to move? Fair is fair, but unreasonable is unreasonable.

 

Excellent post. When I broke my inkle and ripped two of the tendons completely in half I was considered temporarily disabled, not handicapped and I never thought of myself that way.

[kryos]

I am happy to report that my sis saw an ortho specialist this am & she is able to get around on crutches at this point. The timing is crappy, espicially with how big the Diamond is and getting around while on board and in the ports isnt going to be easy. But hey-she is on a Princess cruise, find a deck chair-get that bad knee up, order a beverage and behold the beauty of Alaska.

I still would stay on Princess to make them verify that all passengers in those handicapped cabins really need them. If not, your sis should get one. No one is asking Princess to bump another passenger off of the sailing just because your sis became temporarily disabled at the last minute. You're just asking them to take the time to verify that all passengers in the handicapped cabins really need them. If not, just make a switch. What's the problem?

 

Tell your sis to be very, very careful maneuvering around the cabin on crutches. Crutches can be tricky even on land ... where the floor doesn't move. If the seas are rough during any point in the voyage, it can be downright dangerous on a moving ship. Tell her to make sure someone is always by her side when she is walking on crutches ... at arm's length in case she starts to topple.

 

Blue skies and hopefully she'll have a great cruise!

 

--rita