Insurance Woes ...

[Beaver1975]

Maybe a better worded thread title would have a lot of confusion and "woe"?;)

Edited December 3, 2014 by Beaver1975

[djmess]

Sorry, but making Grandma Guest 1 or 2 on the reservation would not have made a difference here.

 

A paying Guest 1 and Guest 2 are REQUIRED on any (non-solo) reservation...especially to have anyone qualify for a free fare as Guest 3, Guest 4, Guest 5, etc.

 

If Grandma would have been Guest 2 and cancelled, then Guest 3 would move up to the Guest 2 spot, Guest 4 would move up to the Guest 3 spot, etc. All that would be refunded would be the taxes & port fees.

 

If this idea were actually valid, then it could be used to avoid paying the single supplement. If a person wanted to travel solo, they could book as Guest 1 and have a friend book as Guest 2 with both buying insurance. Then Guest 2 could cancel and get a full refund….leaving Guest 1 to go on the cruise only having paid for one guest. Simply not gonna happen.

 

Cancellation insurance isn’t going to kick in and pay for Guests 1 and 2 unless the entire reservation is cancelled.

 

Are you a part of the NCL insurance group. Because I understand what you are saying, but I asked the rep many questions. One being (I'm listed as passenger 2) "If I cancel myself and my Grandma and leave the other 3 people, then how would we file the claim and get reimbursed?" Her response was, on your reservation you are listed as paying $3k and Grandma the $100, so you would receive $3,100.

 

I actually think this may be a bit more fact as like another poster mentioned, we did pay a higher insurance premium for passengers 1 and 2 and lower for 3-5. The premium is associated with the passenger name and position as of final payment. With NCL insurance, you are only required to make the payment with your final payment.

 

Just so you guys know, the numbers I wrote are close, not exact.

 

An additional point. I need to provide the insurance company originally final payment documentation and also something from NCL showing I cancelled Grandma or whomever decides to cancel off the reservation.

 

I'm thinking I won't know anything 100% until we submit ALL our paperwork. As Grandma is out of the hospital, but in a Nursing/rehab home over a 1000 miles from me, not sure exactly when all the paperwork will be obtained

Edited December 3, 2014 by djmess

[Beaver1975]

Maybe a better worded thread title would have saved a lot of confusion and "woe"?;)

 

Edited to correct intent, sorry.

[Rottweiler Puppy]

................ So now the overall cruise fare for the 4 remaining person is increasing significantly. .........

 

More than the total $115? If thats the case just have her be a no show? Seems cheaper and less of a headache running around talking to the insurance company. Is that doable?

 

I hope all works out for you and thanks for the heads up.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Rottweiler Puppy

[SeaShark]

Are you a part of the NCL insurance group.

 

I’m not sure where you’re going with that question, but I’m not really interested in arguing about it…I’m simply trying to share information and inform people.

 

Insurance or no, there needs to be at LEAST two paying guests on a (non-solo) reservation. (For solo travelers, the single supplement takes the place of the second guest requirement).

 

Look at it another way. Let’s say 3 people booked during the “3rd thru 8th guest sails free”.

Guest 1 pays their fare.

Guest 2 pays their fare.

Guest 3 sails for “free”.

 

Two months before the cruise, Guest 2 cancels and gets a full refund thru insurance.

One month before the cruise, Guest 1 cancels and gets a full refund thru insurance.

Guest 3 goes on the cruise alone and doesn’t pay anything because their cruise was for “free”.

 

 

Does anybody really think that could happen??

 

 

...I asked the rep many questions. One being (I'm listed as passenger 2) "If I cancel myself and my Grandma and leave the other 3 people, then how would we file the claim and get reimbursed?" Her response was, on your reservation you are listed as paying $3k and Grandma the $100, so you would receive $3,100.

 

Good that you asked questions of the rep. Call back and ask the rep what happens if Guest 1 and Guest 2 cancel. Ask the rep if they would be fully reimbursed so that the other three guests could cruise for free (only paying the taxes).

[RuthlessBoss]

I’m not sure where you’re going with that question, but I’m not really interested in arguing about it…I’m simply trying to share information and inform people.

 

Insurance or no, there needs to be at LEAST two paying guests on a (non-solo) reservation. (For solo travelers, the single supplement takes the place of the second guest requirement).

 

Look at it another way. Let’s say 3 people booked during the “3rd thru 8th guest sails free”.

Guest 1 pays their fare.

Guest 2 pays their fare.

Guest 3 sails for “free”.

 

Two months before the cruise, Guest 2 cancels and gets a full refund thru insurance.

One month before the cruise, Guest 1 cancels and gets a full refund thru insurance.

Guest 3 goes on the cruise alone and doesn’t pay anything because their cruise was for “free”.

 

 

Does anybody really think that could happen??

 

 

 

 

Good that you asked questions of the rep. Call back and ask the rep what happens if Guest 1 and Guest 2 cancel. Ask the rep if they would be fully reimbursed so that the other three guests could cruise for free (only paying the taxes).

 

If 1 and 2 cancel, that moves 3 and 4 up to be 1 and 2 and they must cough up the fare if they want to go.

[sjbdtz]

Sorry, but making Grandma Guest 1 or 2 on the reservation would not have made a difference here.

 

A paying Guest 1 and Guest 2 are REQUIRED on any (non-solo) reservation...especially to have anyone qualify for a free fare as Guest 3, Guest 4, Guest 5, etc.

 

If Grandma would have been Guest 2 and cancelled, then Guest 3 would move up to the Guest 2 spot, Guest 4 would move up to the Guest 3 spot, etc. All that would be refunded would be the taxes & port fees.

 

If this idea were actually valid, then it could be used to avoid paying the single supplement. If a person wanted to travel solo, they could book as Guest 1 and have a friend book as Guest 2 with both buying insurance. Then Guest 2 could cancel and get a full refund….leaving Guest 1 to go on the cruise only having paid for one guest. Simply not gonna happen.

 

Cancellation insurance isn’t going to kick in and pay for Guests 1 and 2 unless the entire reservation is cancelled.

 

 

Correct.

 

 

Are you a part of the NCL insurance group. Because I understand what you are saying, but I asked the rep many questions. One being (I'm listed as passenger 2) "If I cancel myself and my Grandma and leave the other 3 people, then how would we file the claim and get reimbursed?" Her response was, on your reservation you are listed as paying $3k and Grandma the $100, so you would receive $3,100.

 

I actually think this may be a bit more fact as like another poster mentioned, we did pay a higher insurance premium for passengers 1 and 2 and lower for 3-5. The premium is associated with the passenger name and position as of final payment. With NCL insurance, you are only required to make the payment with your final payment.

 

Just so you guys know, the numbers I wrote are close, not exact.

 

An additional point. I need to provide the insurance company originally final payment documentation and also something from NCL showing I cancelled Grandma or whomever decides to cancel off the reservation.

 

I'm thinking I won't know anything 100% until we submit ALL our paperwork. As Grandma is out of the hospital, but in a Nursing/rehab home over a 1000 miles from me, not sure exactly when all the paperwork will be obtained

 

 

You would have received your $3100 from the insurance company. You still would have owed that $3100 to NCL as a cancellation penalty. If you simply no-showed, then the 3rd person would move to 2nd, etc.

 

 

.

[hawkeyetlse]

If this idea were actually valid, then it could be used to avoid paying the single supplement. If a person wanted to travel solo, they could book as Guest 1 and have a friend book as Guest 2 with both buying insurance. Then Guest 2 could cancel and get a full refund….leaving Guest 1 to go on the cruise only having paid for one guest. Simply not gonna happen.

Except that it does happen. As long as the second person cancels for a "covered reason", the first passenger's insurance usually covers fare increases as a result of the change in cabin occupancy. I think the "covered reason" stipulation is what prevents people from deliberately scamming the insurance company to pay their single supplement. (Also, the fact that it's not a walk in the park to file an insurance claim, or in this case two claims, and in many cases you end up with a future cruise credit, not a cash refund.)

 

But in the OP's hypothetical case, I suspect you are probably right: If there are more passengers on the booking, the cabin will be re-fared so that the #1 and #2 slots are filled. Or, maybe NCL would see an opportunity to make more money and charge full fare for passengers 3, 4, and 5, since the conditions for the KSF promo are no longer satisfied…

I actually think this may be a bit more fact as like another poster mentioned, we did pay a higher insurance premium for passengers 1 and 2 and lower for 3-5. The premium is associated with the passenger name and position as of final payment.

The take-home lesson is that it's not worth paying for cancellation insurance for passengers sailing for free… You would still want medical/evacuation insurance of course, but you could get that separately for cheaper for passengers 3, 4, and 5.

[luddite]

Again a regular that thinks they know everything.

 

We had 5 people that were splitting the fare, so no she was not added for NOTHING. We were all paying 1/5. As stated on the NCL webpage that says average per person rate.

 

And again to my comprehension response earlier. Maybe some posters should go back to school to learn about reading comprehension.

 

I stated I was not complaining, but being informative with the information I gathered for our situation

 

The fare paid is for two people, not five. I comprehend that.

The booking is for two paid people with add-ins. I comprehend THAT.

The insurance company has lived up to their end of the agreement.

That five people are splitting up the total cost isn't part of the agreement with the insurance company and I comprehend that.

I also understand marketing gimmicks and advertising hype.

I don't understand your complaint. And it comes across as a complaint, not information for situations.

Weird.

[RuthlessBoss]

The fare paid is for two people, not five. I comprehend that.

The booking is for two paid people with add-ins. I comprehend THAT.

The insurance company has lived up to their end of the agreement.

That five people are splitting up the total cost isn't part of the agreement with the insurance company and I comprehend that.

I also understand marketing gimmicks and advertising hype.

I don't understand your complaint. And it comes across as a complaint, not information for situations.

Weird.

 

Initially it sounded like a complaint, but later didn't. Even if grandma was listed as 1 or 2, and got reimbursed a high fare, the next person paying taxes only would need to step up and pay a higher fare to fill the slot. A cruise line will not allow just one full paying passenger in a cabin while the rest pay just taxes. I think the OP thought that was how they were going to benefit. As someone else suggested, they should just let grandma be a no show. They'd get the tax refund without dealing with the insurance for the same amount.

[djmess]

I have to admit im more confused now. We have paid the cruise in full. We are 45 days away. Grandma is no going. We will get the taxes back. I stand by purchasing the NCL insurane as she is 88 y/o and third party insurance was outrageous for her. I now understand the insurance was more medical because of the booking situation.

 

Now the reason im confused is NCL has received our payment. Are you guys saying if my travel agent cancels Grandma out of the cabin, we will be charged the "current" rate? The category is sold out and the rest of us are going.

 

I will call the insurance rep again because i want to know how it works for future bookings.

 

I am NOT complaining about NCL or insurance, i just want to understand!

[djmess]

To elaborate further on my confusion. NCL was paid. NCL is not refunding me money. The insurance company is.

 

I look at it like this. I have a car that is paid in full. The car company got their money. I buy insurance on my car. It is totaled, the insurance company pays me a value for the car. I dont have to go back and give the money to the car company because they slready received it.

 

Does that help explain my confusion?

Edited December 3, 2014 by djmess

[cherry30]

I do not read this as a complaint and find it very informative as I am single and often travel with friends vs. family. I will now be more careful when travelling more than 2 in a room as none of us would expect to cough up the difference if one person cancelled and we all had insurance.

 

Most policies do say they cover the cost difference if travel companion cancels and that affects fare of first person, I would have assumed that would apply to 3 and 4 as well, but now know that I would have been wrong and thank the original poster for informing me of that. It will guide future decisions.

[RuthlessBoss]

To elaborate further on my confusion. NCL was paid. NCL is not refunding me money. The insurance company is.

 

I look at it like this. I have a car that is paid in full. The car company got their money. I buy insurance on my car. It is totaled, the insurance company pays me a value for the car. I dont have to go back and give the money to the car company because they slready received it.

 

Does that help explain my confusion?

 

NCL is paid. The only money to get back for grandma is taxes. They would have been refunded by NCL had she had been a "no show". That would have been the easy way without involving the insurance company and cancelling her.

 

As for what you think you'll get back because you split the costs amongst yourself likely might not happen. It's really passenger 1 and 2 who paid.

[sjbdtz]

To elaborate further on my confusion. NCL was paid. NCL is not refunding me money. The insurance company is.

 

I look at it like this. I have a car that is paid in full. The car company got their money. I buy insurance on my car. It is totaled, the insurance company pays me a value for the car. I dont have to go back and give the money to the car company because they slready received it.

 

Does that help explain my confusion?

 

 

Maybe you've confused us too! :)

 

 

You've paid in full. Somebody is giving you back the taxes for 1 of the 5 former travellers.

 

The remaining travellers continue to pay the same fare as if there were 5 (because 5 was taxes only).

 

I may have confused myself in my last post. :)

 

 

.

[sparks1093]

[quote name='djmess']I have to admit im more confused now. We have paid the cruise in full. We are 45 days away. Grandma is no going. We will get the taxes back. I stand by purchasing the NCL insurane as she is 88 y/o and third party insurance was outrageous for her. I now understand the insurance was more medical because of the booking situation.

Now the reason im confused is NCL has received our payment. Are you guys saying if my travel agent cancels Grandma out of the cabin, we will be charged the "current" rate? The category is sold out and the rest of us are going.

I will call the insurance rep again because i want to know how it works for future bookings.

I am NOT complaining about NCL or insurance, i just want to understand![/quote]

It is my understanding that you don't have to buy insurance for all passengers through the cruise line, you could have (possibly at least) purchased grandma's insurance through NCL and third party insurance for everyone else. I don't see why you should be charged the going rate at this point but your first post seemed to suggest that you were being charged more for the change (although if you tried to add someone to take grandma's place they might charge you the going rate for that change). Edited December 3, 2014 by sparks1093

[justhere]

[quote name='djmess']To elaborate further on my confusion. NCL was paid. NCL is not refunding me money. The insurance company is.

I look at it like this. I have a car that is paid in full. The car company got their money. I buy insurance on my car. It is totaled, the insurance company pays me a value for the car. I dont have to go back and give the money to the car company because they slready received it.

Does that help explain my confusion?[/QUOTE]
I understood what you were saying and common sense would say that you are correct. To those posters saying that the third person moves up and would have to pay the full price I don't see why 3 people would have to pay full price. You've already paid two at full price. NCL isn't giving a refund on the amount paid. The insurance would be doing what it is supposed to do and pay any covered loss(es).

So the OP would still have paid for 2 full fare passengers and would receive a payment from the insurance for one of those two if grandma had been listed as passenger 1 or 2. NCL still keeps the original payment except the refund of the taxes.

While this could be used to scam a free cruise you are going to have to get a lot of people involved to provide false documentation to substantiate your claim.

I don't know for a fact that this is how it works but it seems logical that NCL would not charge for a third person at full fare when it already has 2 full fare payments. The insurance payment is not a refund from NCL. It it were, then I could see them charging again for a full fare passenger.

Edited to add: If grandma was passenger 1 or 2 and OP had paid in full, then insurance reimbursed for grandma, and then OP had to pay that money to NCL as passenger 3 moved up the list, it would kind of defeat the purpose of having insurance unless NCL also refunded grandma's fare. Edited December 3, 2014 by justhere

[djmess]

[quote name='justhere']I understood what you were saying and common sense would say that you are correct. To those posters saying that the third person moves up and would have to pay the full price I don't see why 3 people would have to pay full price. You've already paid two at full price. NCL isn't giving a refund on the amount paid. The insurance would be doing what it is supposed to do and pay any covered loss(es).

So the OP would still have paid for 2 full fare passengers and would receive a payment from the insurance for one of those two if grandma had been listed as passenger 1 or 2. NCL still keeps the original payment except the refund of the taxes.

While this could be used to scam a free cruise you are going to have to get a lot of people involved to provide false documentation to substantiate your claim.

I don't know for a fact that this is how it works but it seems logical that NCL would not charge for a third person at full fare when it already has 2 full fare payments. The insurance payment is not a refund from NCL. It it were, then I could see them charging again for a full fare passenger.

Edited to add: If grandma was passenger 1 or 2 and OP had paid in full, then insurance reimbursed for grandma, and then OP had to pay that money to NCL as passenger 3 moved up the list, it would kind of defeat the purpose of having insurance unless NCL also refunded grandma's fare.[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much for understanding my point of view and thought process. Communicating on message boards is not always easy.

And i did call the insurance company to get answers. Knowing from reading on here for many years that if we were to just get the taxes back than, noshowing would be the easiest avenue.

I had only asked the "insurance specialist" as that was her title, about the 2nd passenger question when she made a comment as to "what amount" is listed per passenger because that is the rate i am to fill in for the claim form

[pieshops]

[quote name='djmess']Are you a part of the NCL insurance group. Because I understand what you are saying, but I asked the rep many questions. One being (I'm listed as passenger 2) "If I cancel myself and my Grandma and leave the other 3 people, then how would we file the claim and get reimbursed?" Her response was, on your reservation you are listed as paying $3k and Grandma the $100, so you would receive $3,100.

I actually think this may be a bit more fact as like another poster mentioned, we did pay a higher insurance premium for passengers 1 and 2 and lower for 3-5. The premium is associated with the passenger name and position as of final payment. With NCL insurance, you are only required to make the payment with your final payment.

Just so you guys know, the numbers I wrote are close, not exact.

An additional point. I need to provide the insurance company originally final payment documentation and also something from NCL showing I cancelled Grandma or whomever decides to cancel off the reservation.

I'm thinking I won't know anything 100% until we submit ALL our paperwork. As Grandma is out of the hospital, but in a Nursing/rehab home over a 1000 miles from me, not sure exactly when all the paperwork will be obtained[/QUOTE]

Why not just call and make her the second passenger and you the 3rd? then cancel the next day or week

[RuthlessBoss]

[quote name='pieshops']Why not just call and make her the second passenger and you the 3rd? then cancel the next day or week[/QUOTE]

Can't. It's a pre existing condition at this point.

[RuthlessBoss]

[quote name='djmess']Thank you so much for understanding my point of view and thought process. Communicating on message boards is not always easy.

And i did call the insurance company to get answers. Knowing from reading on here for many years that if we were to just get the taxes back than, noshowing would be the easiest avenue.

I had only asked the "insurance specialist" as that was her title, about the 2nd passenger question when she made a comment as to "what amount" is listed per passenger because that is the rate i am to fill in for the claim form[/QUOTE]

I think part of the confusion comes from the NCL statement with a 5 person financial breakdown, which in reality isn't the true fare. It does make it look better on paper though. The only true fares are 1 and 2, with the others sailing free except taxes on that promotion. I'll be anxious to hear the outcome of this situation. Will you get just taxes or 1/5 of the fare?

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='justhere']I understood what you were saying and common sense would say that you are correct. To those posters saying that the third person moves up and would have to pay the full price I don't see why 3 people would have to pay full price. Y[COLOR="Red"][B]ou've already paid two at full price. NCL isn't giving a refund on the amount paid[/B][/COLOR]. The insurance would be doing what it is supposed to do and pay any covered loss(es).

So the OP would still have paid for 2 full fare passengers and would receive a payment from the insurance for one of those two if grandma had been listed as passenger 1 or 2. NCL still keeps the original payment except the refund of the taxes.

While this could be used to scam a free cruise you are going to have to get a lot of people involved to provide false documentation to substantiate your claim.

I don't know for a fact that this is how it works but it seems logical that NCL would not charge for a third person at full fare when it already has 2 full fare payments. The insurance payment is not a refund from NCL. It it were, then I could see them charging again for a full fare passenger.

Edited to add: If grandma was passenger 1 or 2 and OP had paid in full, then insurance reimbursed for grandma, and then OP had to pay that money to NCL as passenger 3 moved up the list, it would kind of defeat the purpose of having insurance unless NCL also refunded grandma's fare.[/QUOTE]


Agreed...I was confused a bit.....


.

[hawkeyetlse]

[quote name='justhere']
I don't know for a fact that this is how it works but it seems logical that NCL would not charge for a third person at full fare when it already has 2 full fare payments.[/quote]I think you might be surprised/disappointed. The other solution is equally "logical", just less advantageous to the customer (and to the insurance company). People often report having to pay the single supplement when their cabinmate cancels, so the cruise line is essentially doing exactly what you describe: asking for a 3rd cruise fare (the single supplement) even though they have already collected two full fares.

But since the OP is not actually in this situation (Grandma is not actually listed as #1 or #2 on the booking), we can only speculate about how NCL would handle it.

[justhere]

[quote name='hawkeyetlse']I think you might be surprised/disappointed. The other solution is equally "logical", just less advantageous to the customer (and to the insurance company). People often report having to pay the single supplement when their cabinmate cancels, so the cruise line is essentially doing exactly what you describe: asking for a 3rd cruise fare (the single supplement) even though they have already collected two full fares.

But since the OP is not actually in this situation (Grandma is not actually listed as #1 or #2 on the booking), we can only speculate about how NCL would handle it.[/QUOTE]
Quite possibly but your example about the single supplement leaves out a few relevant (to the example) issues. In those situations was the cancellation before or after final payment? If before, then I can see how and why NCL would then charge the single supplement and NCL would still only be charging for 2 people. I would be curious to see if people were charged after final payment when they've already paid for 2 people.

I think it would be very shady (for want of a better legal term :)) for NCL to sell insurance, charge someone for 2 people, have to pay a claim after final payment, and then essentially force the customer to send that insurance payment back to NCL as a 3rd person payment. I should add that I guess it wouldn't surprise me if that's actually how it did end up working out as the customer still only pays out of pocket for 2 people. The 3rd payment is covered by the insurance. I guess that's why it sucks if you don't have insurance. Edited December 3, 2014 by justhere

[RuthlessBoss]

[quote name='justhere']Quite possibly but your example about the single supplement leaves out a few relevant (to the example) issues. In those situations was the cancellation before or after final payment? If before, then I can see how and why NCL would then charge the single supplement and NCL would still only be charging for 2 people. I would be curious to see if people were charged after final payment when they've already paid for 2 people.

I think it would be very shady (for want of a better legal term :)) for NCL to sell insurance, charge someone for 2 people, have to pay a claim after final payment, and then essentially force the customer to send that insurance payment back to NCL as a 3rd person payment. I should add that I guess it wouldn't surprise me if that's actually how it did end up working out as the customer still only pays out of pocket for 2 people. The 3rd payment is covered by the insurance. I guess that's why it sucks if you don't have insurance.[/QUOTE]

If there are 2 people in a cabin and one cancels , the fare is returned to that person. For the remaining cruiser, he/she must pay for the empty bed (a solo supplement) OR if they have insurance, they will pick up the tab. A ship does not collect 3 times.