Air Consolidators - Business Class

[sippican]

Has anyone used an air consolidator to purchase business class tickets? Specifically I am looking at Regal Wings and Executive Class Travel. (Planning ahead for our 2016 NZ cruise. And yes, I know the fares won't be out for some time.)

[Gardyloo]

Has anyone used an air consolidator to purchase business class tickets? Specifically I am looking at Regal Wings and Executive Class Travel. (Planning ahead for our 2016 NZ cruise. And yes, I know the fares won't be out for some time.)

On Executive Class Travel's website, you'll see a tab at the top for "sell miles."

 

This is equivalent to seeing a red hourglass on a spider's belly, or hearing a rattling noise under a rock in the desert.

 

That means that - probably - they are one of a number of "consolidators" that purchase frequent flyer miles, then redeem them for plane tickets that they sell to you at a "discount." Miles laundering, as it were.

 

This practice is specifically against the terms and conditions of every single frequent flyer program. "Trading or bartering" miles and points is not permitted, and increasingly people are turning up at check-in counters with these tickets only to find that the ticket is invalid, the money almost always impossible to recover, and both the passenger's and the miles-seller's frequent flyer accounts have been canceled and the miles confiscated. There you stand with a ticket that you paid thousands of dollars for, with nowhere to go. Trip insurance people will laugh and walk away, too.

 

The other group, maybe yes, maybe no. Do you feel lucky?

 

Business class is expensive, but sometimes the peace of mind you get by dealing with a real airline is worth it.

 

You have plenty of time. Look at fares using ITA or Expedia, consider carriers like Air Fiji or Hawaiian Airlines that offer business class that isn't as amenity-laden as some of the others, but cheaper, or look at quality premium economy products like Air New Zealand's.

 

Or if you're frequent overseas and domestic travelers and want to ride up front more often, see if round-the-world tickets might work for you. I did a little writeup on RTWs as a "top question" on TA's airline forum, which might be worth reviewing. (Can't put the link on CC.)

 

Remember the line about too good to be true, also the one about free lunches.

[Bowie MeMe]

You also have plenty of time to try and get credit cards with bonus miles for starting and points for what you buy. The points guy.com has some information about this approach.

[6rugrats]

Gardyloo is right. Don't even think about it. Airlines are catching more and more of these tickets bought with purchased miles. People show up at the airport and find their tickets are cancelled. There was a recent thread in the air travel forum on Tripadvisor, where someone lost $17,000 because they purchased such tickets, and the airline cancelled them.

[sippican]

Thank you for the replies.

I have heard all of that "bad stuff" but am unable to find reports of the supposed horrors. I've search Tripadvisor and CC and general web searches.

I have found the usual "my TA wasn't available, the flight was cancelled, ..."

 

ECT has an A+ rating with the BBB, RW states they do NOT purchase FF miles.

There are a few positive reviews on Tripadvisor, people that saved a bunch and had great expereinces. So, can anyone tell me the source of your warnings?

 

I did find the following in an article.

 

Only deal with agencies affiliated with USACA.

USACA airline consolidators deal in huge volumes, must abide by strict requirements and do not sell directly to the public. Their tickets are available through travel agents. Typically their pricing, with airlines with which they have contracts, is well below that of the "online consolidators" who tend to all be about the same price, offer sketchy customer "service," and may have substantial "booking fees."

 

Very confusing.

I am familiar with the ITA matrix - interestingly, lately some of their fares are higher than the actual airline site, never noticed that before. Of course, you need to book elsewhere after identifying the itinerary anyway.

 

FWIW - Fiji seems to offer economy seating only via their website, Hawaiian Air cannot accommodate our itinerary. We do have planty of time. We have researched mileage cards but are not loyal to one airline and have not determined which might be "the one" for the NZ trip.

 

I will keep researching this.

[6rugrats]

BBB ratings are worthless. Anyone can put a logo/slogan, etc on their webpage. Doesn't make it true. Just ask yourself why would an airline sell thousands of extremely discounted F and business class tickets at such a discounted price?

 

They don't. Most of these companies are booking tickets with FF tickets purchased from someone else's account. Go for it if you are willing to show up at the airport and find your ticket cancelled and that you've lost all your money.

 

Regal Wings, I believe, is affiliated with Luxury4less.

 

Just one thread from Flyertalk with interesting information.

 

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/online-travel-booking-bidding-agencies/1074234-anyone-ever-booked-luxury-less-flyl4l-com-before.html

Edited January 8, 2015 by 6rugrats

[sippican]

BBB ratings are worthless. Anyone can put a logo/slogan, etc on their webpage. Doesn't make it true. Just ask yourself why would an airline sell thousands of extremely discounted F and business class tickets at such a discounted price?

 

They don't. Most of these companies are booking tickets with FF tickets purchased from someone else's account. Go for it if you are willing to show up at the airport and find your ticket cancelled and that you've lost all your money.

 

Regal Wings, I believe, is affiliated with Luxury4less.

 

Just one thread from Flyertalk with interesting information.

 

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/online-travel-booking-bidding-agencies/1074234-anyone-ever-booked-luxury-less-flyl4l-com-before.html

 

FWIW - I did not get the BBB ratings from the sellers, but from the BBB itself. Not a single complaint on either I mentioned (I did not look up others) - doesn't that seem strange to you if so many are being scammed? As I asked, please show me a review from someone who has shown up at the airport and lost all their money. Even the link above references checking them out on BBB.

Of course, buyer beware, but I remain skeptical about these horror stories.

[FlyerTalker]

FWIW - I did not get the BBB ratings from the sellers, but from the BBB itself. Not a single complaint on either I mentioned (I did not look up others) - doesn't that seem strange to you if so many are being scammed? As I asked, please show me a review from someone who has shown up at the airport and lost all their money. Even the link above references checking them out on BBB.

Of course, buyer beware, but I remain skeptical about these horror stories.

Then go and freely buy from them. No skin off my nose, nor those of Gardyloo or 6rugrats.

 

I find it interesting....you ask for opinions, then challenge what you are told. Why do I have the feeling that you have already made up your mind and are simply looking for validation.

 

At least its pre-purchase validation rather than the usual post-purchase.

[6rugrats]

Have you ever filed a complaint with the BBB? If you had, you would put absolutely no faith in their ratings.

 

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g1-i10702-k8040637-Low_business_fares-Air_Travel.html#63287529

 

I'm not going to research this for you further. With a little digging, you can pull up many such threads on many travel boards. It's your choice how to spend your money. The airlines are getting very, very good at spotting these tickets. Purchase at your own risk.

Edited January 8, 2015 by 6rugrats

[sippican]

Then go and freely buy from them. No skin off my nose, nor those of Gardyloo or 6rugrats.

 

I find it interesting....you ask for opinions, then challenge what you are told. Why do I have the feeling that you have already made up your mind and are simply looking for validation.

 

At least its pre-purchase validation rather than the usual post-purchase.

 

No need to get testy but it seems you did not clearly read my original post.

It askes if anyone has USED an air consolidator, have you? I then specified two agencies. Are you familiar with either?

 

Feel free to offer your opinion, which I am also free to challenge since i was looking for actual experiences.

 

And why DO you have the feeling I've made up my mind? I won't until I have some facts.

 

I do appreciate the helpful information offered - sorry you seem to take offense!

[sippican]

Have you ever filed a complaint with the BBB? If you had, you would put absolutely no faith in their ratings.

 

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g1-i10702-k8040637-Low_business_fares-Air_Travel.html#63287529

 

I'm not going to research this for you further. With a little digging, you can pull up many such threads on many travel boards. It's your choice how to spend your money. The airlines are getting very, very good at spotting these tickets. Purchase at your own risk.

 

Thanks for a link to an actual experience of someone.

My point is - there ARE no complaints of either agency on BBB. The Flyertalk boards tells you to check them out on BBB.

I thought i was doing research here. Sorry to bother you all, you obviously have better things to do.

 

FWIW, I have learned there IS a difference between the mileage purchaser/resellers and those thse that buy discount legit tickets, but I'm sure you're probably not interested.

[greatam]

No need to get testy but it seems you did not clearly read my original post.

It askes if anyone has USED an air consolidator, have you? I then specified two agencies. Are you familiar with either?

 

Feel free to offer your opinion, which I am also free to challenge since i was looking for actual experiences.

 

And why DO you have the feeling I've made up my mind? I won't until I have some facts.

 

I do appreciate the helpful information offered - sorry you seem to take offense!

 

You just don't seem to understand. There are international air consolidators, there are the online "consolidators" you can book yourself, there are the cruise lines which very often sell consolidator/bulk purchase tickets and there are the mileage brokers putting themselves out there as consolidators. All are different and most are those you want to stay far away from.

 

For a TRUE international consolidator, you generally have to go through a TA. They get fairly large discounts because they shuttle huge amounts of business to an airline.

 

This is the largest trade group, reputable and you can sometimes get some real bargains on business class tickets. http://www.usaca.com/about.php. Here is another one that you can access through reputable travel agents.http://www.skylinkus.com/

 

Places like BestFares, 1-800-FlyEurope, CheapoAir, etc. etc. buy tickets in bulk, resell them for what the the traffic will bear. The restrictions can be unbelivable-BestFares specifically has a use it or loose it policy but you won't find that on the front page or even in the fare rules. It is buried in the very fine print of the T & C's. Some other companies have the same rule. What that means-your flight changes a couple of hours earlier. You are still on the ship or trying to transit to the airport. Use it or loose it-Flight XXX is still flying. You just won't be on it and you will be forced to buy a very expensive walk up ticket.

 

Cruise air tickets have a lot of pitfalls if there is a glitch in your travels. And it has been posted over and over in this forum, while you may be able to see your reservation and pick your seats, THAT DOES NOT mean you have a ticket. You just have a placeholder. If the cruise line needs 8 seats on your flight for a family group, you will most likely be shuttled to another flight with the standard "flight was cancelled, changed, etc. etc" BS. Caveat Emptor.

 

And finally the mileage brokers. No different that me using my miles to get you an award seat. BUT HERE IS THE CATCH-the mileage broker PAYS ME for my miles. And that is against all rules and regulations of every airline FF program I know. Airlines are wise to this and will cancel the tickets. BBB is worthless for the most part. How anyone could depend on BBB for anything is beyond me.

 

I own an international logistics company moving people and freight worldwide almost every day of the year. I purchase between 5-600 airline tickets per year for our worldwide trade show customers. MOST want CHEAPEST. Some won't listen. A large group from LA with a new line of Asian specialty gourmet foods totally missed the set up at the Fancy Food Show in NYC this summer because they insisted on booking through some off the wall "consolidator" who charged them a lot less but then changed the flight to arrive the final day of set up for their booths. They got to the Convention Center just as setup was closing. They had paid a lot of money for booth space, refrigeration space, etc. etc. All their product, except what they could carry by hand, was stuck in the back storage area and was available for replenishment only. They had no tables, no booth, no backdrop, NOTHING. Just a card table and a couple of folding chairs. Not particularly a good sign of marketing. They lost their butts for a couple hundred dollars in air fare. Should have been a lucrative venture for them for the amount of their outlay. Their product was good. But trying to cheap it out on airline tickets just about did their business in. They are still not selling much any further East than Colorado.

 

You have a tremendous amount of time. Between churning credit cards, using credit cards to pay for absolutely EVERYTHING and maybe buying and asking people to gift you miles, you should be able to come up with your own miles to get to NZ. Good luck.

[6rugrats]

Thanks for a link to an actual experience of someone.

My point is - there ARE no complaints of either agency on BBB. The Flyertalk boards tells you to check them out on BBB.

I thought i was doing research here. Sorry to bother you all, you obviously have better things to do.

 

FWIW, I have learned there IS a difference between the mileage purchaser/resellers and those thse that buy discount legit tickets, but I'm sure you're probably not interested.

 

No, I just try to give people the tools so they can look things up themselves.

 

I know the difference between a legitimate ticket consolidator (Priceline, Orbitz, Expedia, etc.) and a company that is selling you tickets they obtained with someone else's frequent flyer miles.

 

I have purchased several airline tickets from Priceline and a couple from Expedia, usually mistake fares, that were just fine. A legitimate ticket consolidator cannot get you tremendous discounts that ticket brokers promise you on business class tickets. There are just as many foolish people on Flyertalk as there are on any other forum.

 

The BBB is nonsense, but you can believe what you want. Perhaps there are no complaints filed for these companies because people know it's a waste of time. A lot of these mileage brokers will have you sign an agreement that you understand what you are purchasing and what the risk is. This is why most people can't even do a charge back to their credit card company when they show up at the airport and find their ticket is cancelled, or file a complaint with the BBB. They just lose all their money.

 

Please avoid flighthub.com, edreams.com, cheapairflights.com, globester.com, opodo.com, bravofly.com, airflights-deal.com, cheaperflights-air.com, cheaper-airflights.com, airtickets.com and on and on.

Edited January 9, 2015 by 6rugrats

[sippican]

greatam - thank you for the wonderful, clear explanation. Now I DO understand. I appreciate the time you took to reply in detail.

 

6rugrats - so now that I've learned there are some legit ticket consolidators, I have what I need to continue researching. Thanks

 

I did find the USACA website and see that few consolidators are "qualified" for membership. I discovered that a local, highly-respected travel agency uses Centrav, and has very good things to say about their services.

 

Seems safer to buy at full price, but I'm not giving in yet. We did use the British Air card a few years back, but earned nowhere near the cost of a business class ticket. I don't know which airline yet (maybe that's where I need to concentrate my efforts) and doubt if I can convince DH to go the credit card route as he prefers our one card that gives us 5% cash back (which can then be put towards our purchases, including airfare).

[Gardyloo]

Seems safer to buy at full price, but I'm not giving in yet. We did use the British Air card a few years back, but earned nowhere near the cost of a business class ticket. I don't know which airline yet (maybe that's where I need to concentrate my efforts) and doubt if I can convince DH to go the credit card route as he prefers our one card that gives us 5% cash back (which can then be put towards our purchases, including airfare).

Let me comment on a couple of things from the above.

 

First, you're going to New Zealand (and maybe Australia too?) during the southern summer. While nothing can be stated with certainty, let me just mention that North America - Australia/NZ frequent flyer award seats in premium cabins (business, first, even "premium economy,") are among the hardest seats to obtain in the whole game. And if your travel dates are relatively inflexible (as they will be if the trip is tied to a specific cruise) you'll find it even more difficult. Travelers without specific dates (the majority of leisure travelers originating in Oz/NZ) will grab any seats they can. And to make matters worse, at least Qantas (not sure about Air NZ) - which dominates the North America - Southwest Pacific trade - offers award seats to its own FF plan members a month before North American airlines (United, Delta etc.) do, so trying to redeem, e.g. American Airlines miles for Qantas routes, puts you at a giant disadvantage.

 

So while I'm a big fan of using FF miles for business class redemptions, one needs to recognize that there are circumstances - tight schedules, specific routes at specific times of the year - where such redemptions are VERY hard to get. I'd hate for you to expend thousands of dollars or jump through hoops to accumulate a couple hundred thousand FF miles only to discover that you can't use them in the precise manner you'd need.

 

Second, "buying tickets at full price" is NOT a good plan, either. Do you know what "full price" business class tickets from Florida to Auckland cost? Over $20,000 round trip. Obviously that's out of the question. There are numerous discount business fares offered by the airlines, ranging from $3200 or so (from LAX to Auckland via Fiji) to $6K or so from the east coast (Miami, NYC). Can you fly to Los Angeles and back for less than $2800? Of course.

 

So playing around with origin and destination options, using ITA (with which you say you're familiar) is a no-cost and potentially rewarding approach. Maybe you DO collect some FF miles, but use them to "stage" you someplace where the cash cost of a business class ticket is more affordable, maybe even someplace counter-intuitive like Europe. (For example, due to higher demand and supply, business class round trip prices to NZ from the UK are much cheaper than from the US, and the likes of Emirates, Air New Zealand and Qantas often have attractive special fares that you could scope out.)

 

I'd also repeat myself and suggest you look at my Tripadvisor post regarding round-the-world tickets. If you travel frequently over the course of a year, if you're like us and find that business- or first-class flying is a lot more interesting as we get older, and if you are willing to do a little "strategic planning" for your travels, then there's real value to be found in RTW tickets. Right now with a very strong US dollar, there are some good opportunities that might be of interest to you.

[frugaltravel]

I did find the USACA website and see that few consolidators are "qualified" for membership. I discovered that a local, highly-respected travel agency uses Centrav, and has very good things to say about their services.

 

I have dealt both directly with consolidators listed on the USACA site and through travel agents who deal with them. Have been doing so for probably 20 years and probably hundreds of tickets for myself, colleagues, family and friends. Absolutely no issues whatsoever.

 

That is why when people here constantly b!tch about consolidators, they rarely make the distinction between those like Cruise Air consolidators and ones like those that are members of the USACA. I have been beating this drum of distinction for years on here, often on deaf ears (kind of like the response you got from Flyer Talker!).

[greatam]

I have dealt both directly with consolidators listed on the USACA site and through travel agents who deal with them. Have been doing so for probably 20 years and probably hundreds of tickets for myself, colleagues, family and friends. Absolutely no issues whatsoever.

 

That is why when people here constantly b!tch about consolidators, they rarely make the distinction between those like Cruise Air consolidators and ones like those that are members of the USACA. I have been beating this drum of distinction for years on here, often on deaf ears (kind of like the response you got from Flyer Talker!).

 

I've always known what you meant. But you weren't ever really clear about the distinction between international consolidators who base prices to their affiliated travel agents are based on volume and not on bulk purchase prices that can be sold for whatever the traffic will bear.

 

MOST people will NOT seek out an international consolidator unless they have a VERY good travel agent that REALLY understand air (and most don't-they sell cruises or package vacations and treat the air and sometimes the hotels as just an afterthought. And on top of that, most don't want to pay the commission or fee even though it might save them 100's of dollars. Just the nature of our DIY world.

 

I do understand and wrote a very long post about this very subject probably 7-8 years ago (about the time I wrote the sticky). But again, it was generally lightly "fluffed over" by the general public because they just didn't understand that those international consolidator tickets MUST be purchased through a TA. They wanted to do it online.

[greatam]

Just one other suggestion to the OP

 

FLY the OPPOSITE way through the Middle East to Australia/New Zealand. GREAT planes, GREAT service. Stopover in lots of Middle Eastern countries if you choose. And very often the prices are a lot less than flying Qantas or Air New Zealand. There are so many ways to mix and match airlines flying through Europe/Asia or the Middle East. It is definite worth exploring.

 

BUT picking an airline if you are going to try to accumulate your own miles should first priority. That 5% cash back can't in any way compete with the value of accumulated miles for a business class ticket, credit card bonuses, mileage bonuses, etc. etc. You would have to spend an absolute fortune with 5% cash back to pay for a business class ticket. With credit card sign up bonuses, mileage bonuses, your normal monthly spend, you cruise price and all kinds of things-you could probably get by with about $35-40,000 spend in almost two years if you played your cards right. 5% cash back would barely get you ONE coach ticket for the same spend. Need to speak to your husband.

[sippican]

Just one other suggestion to the OP

 

FLY the OPPOSITE way through the Middle East to Australia/New Zealand. GREAT planes, GREAT service. Stopover in lots of Middle Eastern countries if you choose. And very often the prices are a lot less than flying Qantas or Air New Zealand. There are so many ways to mix and match airlines flying through Europe/Asia or the Middle East. It is definite worth exploring.

 

 

I have looked a bit at RTW tickets. Intriguing, need to it give a closer look.

Emirates is a strong possibility for going the way you recommend. Their planes are amazing and a stay in Dubai looks interesting.

[Gardyloo]

I have looked a bit at RTW tickets. Intriguing, need to it give a closer look.

You appear to be global travelers, and the virtue of RTW tickets is that they're good for up to 16 segments and good for a year. The tickets are priced very differently depending on where you start and finish the trip; the US is among the more expensive "origin" countries. But your travels take you to, or at least close to, some much-less expensive origin countries.

 

For example, a 4-continent business class Oneworld Explorer RTW bought in the USA will cost something like $11,000. (:eek: even though that averages out to around $690 per business- or first-class flight.) However, the same ticket bought and started in Egypt will cost $6200, in Japan $6600, $7600 in Norway, or $5100 in South Africa, less than half the cost in the USA. At those prices, you're looking at an average cost (over 16 flights) of less than $500 per flight. That's a little high for Tampa - Chicago, but it sure isn't high for New York to Sydney in business class, or Chicago to Hong Kong.

 

Living in the US and buying RTW tickets overseas allows you to "stop over" at home, fly around North/Central America or the Caribbean for a while, then continue on to the next continent up to 10 or 11 months later. And you earn frequent flyer miles - lots of them - in the process. Up until a couple of years ago (when health issues grounded my wife - hoping to resume later this year) we would buy a business class RTW, usually in South Africa, which we love, and use it for all our foreign and domestic travel for a year. During that year, we'd earn enough frequent flyer miles to travel the whole following year (for the most part, anyway) using award flights. Then we'd return to South Africa in year 3 and repeat the process. All in, our $5200 investment in the ticket got us something like 24 or 25 business- or first class flights over the course of two years. Beat that on a cost-benefit basis.

 

Here's the route of our first RTW done some years ago, just as an illustration. Photos and brief narrative here.

 

 

There's an infinity of options with these tickets, but it requires one to do some careful planning to make the most out of them. As a group, cruisers are big advance-planners, so it's always struck me as a real win-win option, or at least one well worth investigating.

[6rugrats]

Interesting FT thread about the near impossibility of business award tickets on this routing:

 

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1643195-booking-nz-j-ua-miles-any-movement-lately.html

[frugaltravel]

I've always known what you meant. But you weren't ever really clear about the distinction between international consolidators who base prices to their affiliated travel agents are based on volume and not on bulk purchase prices that can be sold for whatever the traffic will bear.

 

That is obviously your personal opinion. If you look back at some of my posts on this, especially in response to some of your posts a few years back, you will see that your statement is untrue. I don't have the time or desire to go back to find posts to "prove" it.

Edited January 17, 2015 by frugaltravel