Is this fair

[Suzy Smith]

Whats a "nanny" state :confused:

 

It is a state where (among other benefits) everyone receives free health care!:)

 

There are many discrepancies between countries. You can get around some and just have to put up with the rest.

 

Totally agree - I don't understand why anyone thinks the terms and conditions of buying a cruise should be the same in different countries. The costs of doing business and the way of doing business varies all over the world, and even within countries. If I buy an iPad in the UK, the price is different than if I bought it in the US. It is the same iPad, made by the same company, but I don't hear howls of protest about Apple treating UK citizens unfairly. If I buy a product here from a large retailer like M & S, I am able to return it and get a full refund if I change my mind. However, anything I buy from a small local retailer can only be returned if it is faulty. Is that also unfair?

 

The consumer protection we have in the UK and other countries was hard fought for and it is easy to undervalue it - I think we sometimes have a tendency to take it for granted. There is nothing to stop UK citizens booking in the US if they want to live more dangerously than I do;), so I don't see that there is any problem at all.:confused::)

Edited January 26, 2016 by Suzy Smith

[MarkusToe]

2 important points

 

a.) as said before - you a covered by local law, in the US the cruise line is able to cancel or switch to a charter, you will get your refund back, that's it - they don't care about your personal spendings upfront your cruise - it's inside your cruise contract....

 

b.) if something is going wrong with your cruise - try the sue the cruise line in the US - they do laugh you may hear it here at europe....

Edited January 26, 2016 by MarkusToe

[spanner14]

A nanny state is one in which the Government is seen as unduly overprotective and controlling; the equivalent of "helicopter parenting". Nothing to do with "free healthcare" (which is only free/charges capped at point of use; we pay for it via National Insurance contributions).

 

Returning to UK vs US booking conditions, it is what it is. At the moment the deposit for 2017 is only £150 pp and if you have decent travel insurance and had to cancel a cruise for a genuine emergency/medical reason, you'd no doubt be refunded most if not all the balance.

 

There are other differences too; fewer or no promos for early bookings for example. There are also "universal unfairnesses": If you are disabled and need an accessible cabin you are seriously limited in choice - e.g. Inside, 2B, C3 etc so aren't always eligible for a "within category upgrade" your CC status promises. Plus there is much less choice of position.

 

But hey, life's not fair. It's probably not fair that I'm disabled and can't have a midship balcony room with upgrade. But that's life. I'm happy that I can afford to cruise every few years.

Edited January 26, 2016 by spanner14

[Gordoncruickshank]

ATOL is for air travel, quote from their website:

'By law, every UK travel company which sells air holidays and flights is required to hold an ATOL, which stands for Air Travel Organiser’s Licence.

 

If a travel company with an ATOL ceases trading, the ATOL scheme protects customers who had booked holidays with the firm. It ensures they do not get stranded abroad or lose money.

 

The scheme is designed to reassure consumers that their money is safe, and will provide assistance in the event of a travel company failure.'

 

So unsure if you're not flying how it operates :confused:. Clearly states that it's for air holidays and flights??

 

 

 

Additionally, it also states:

 

'What situations does ATOL cover?

 

ATOL protection applies to virtually any overseas air holiday booked with a UK travel company. The law says your holiday must be protected if you book a holiday with a single travel firm that includes:

 

flights and accommodation (including a cruise), or

flights and car hire, or

flights, accommodation and car hire.'

 

 

 

Note the combination of items booked from a 'single' travel firm.

When we go to the US I always book my own flights so that I have control over when I go to airports (and also so that I can use the miles that I build up each year). We travel early, leave a few days pre and post cruise to cover airline/ship delays.

 

After RCCL dumped us at LAX at 9am following the one cruise we took with them for a 11pm flight, I vowed that I would not take the chance of that ever happening again. It was made worst as the only flight on the board was ours when we arrived which displayed cancelled. No BA staff in airport for 4 hours after we arrived there to answer questions about whether it was previous night's or that night's flight.

[villauk]

When we go to the US I always book my own flights so that I have control over when I go to airports (and also so that I can use the miles that I build up each year). We travel early, leave a few days pre and post cruise to cover airline/ship delays.

 

After RCCL dumped us at LAX at 9am following the one cruise we took with them for a 11pm flight, I vowed that I would not take the chance of that ever happening again. It was made worst as the only flight on the board was ours when we arrived which displayed cancelled. No BA staff in airport for 4 hours after we arrived there to answer questions about whether it was previous night's or that night's flight.

 

We, too, book our own flights. I recall some pax on a previous cruise that had booked through the cruiseline and when all the airports were closed due to a hurricane, they had to stay on the ship and pay for the privilege (travelling back up to Canada), claiming through their insurance once they returned home several days later. Some were obviously worried as they were at the end of their vacation and so did not have sufficient funds readily available to cover the extra stay onboard. Luckily, we had a post cruise stay and went directly to our independently pre-booked hotel ;).

[RDC1]

Would you care to list those "certain rights".

 

The "certain rights" are clearly delineated in the UK PTR (Package Travel Regulations). Some of the key areas are:

 

Changes to a booked holiday

 

Regulations 12 and 13 of the Package Travel Regulations are concerned with pre-departure cancellation or alteration by the organiser:

If there are alterations to your package holiday or to departure times or location, the travel organiser must notify the consumer as quickly as possible in order to enable him to take appropriate decisions and in particular to withdraw from the contract without penalty or to accept the alterations.

The customer is then required to respond to the notification of the alteration.

You then have the option of withdrawing from the contract without penalty or accept a variation.

 

Alteration to a holiday contract

 

In the context of a package holiday contract, an alteration to an 'essential term of the contract' is likely to include:

the price

the precise accommodation, standard of accommodation and accommodation facilities

the type and standard of transport

the place of departure and destination

any facility or service advertised or promoted as forming a part of the package

any term required by the Package Travel Regulations or the Abta Code of Conduct to be included as part of the contract

In practice, the problem is that the tour operator or travel agent may not inform you of any pre-departure changes until shortly before your planned departure date.

Many of you would have already have booked your holiday time off well in advance and find it difficult either to rearrange your holiday time or find an alternative holiday at the same price.

Invariably, you are left with little choice but to go ahead with the holiday, as the alternative will be no holiday at all.

It's important to note that, even if you do decide to cancel the holiday (and you do mange to find an alternative holiday), you may still be entitled to some compensation in addition.

[RDC1]

Strangely I have Atol certificates covering the 4 cruise only holidays I have booked over the coming years.

 

 

The major impact on regulation between the US and UK is not ATOL. The ATOL is designed to protect the consumer from travel agents and some travel suppliers from going bankrupt. Not much of an issue for cruise lines and does not increase their risk. It is the PTR (Package Travel Regulation 1992), which enables consumers to make and collect on claims against service providers on a wide range of issues for which a US consumer does not have similar abilities. The PTR does increase the potential liabilities for loss for the cruise lines.

Edited January 26, 2016 by RDC1

[villauk]

The major impact on regulation between the US and UK is not ATOL. The ATOL is designed to protect the consumer from travel agents and some travel suppliers from going bankrupt. Not much of an issue for cruise lines and does not increase their risk. It is the PTR (Package Travel Regulation 1992), which enables consumers to make and collect on claims against service providers on a wide range of issues for which a US consumer does not have similar abilities. The PTR does increase the potential liabilities for loss for the cruise lines.

 

And does this not require the booking to be part of a package i.e. as stated in the above listing, flights and accommodation (cruise), flights and car hire etc.? Just clarifying exactly what a 'package' is in the PTR regulation? Thanks :).

[SheriffJoe]

So after all of these posts the answer to the OP's question is YES it is fair, UK residents are MUCH MORE of a financial liability to X than US pax so therefore you generally must pay more (or get less perks like a refundable deposit) to cover that risk. ;)

[RDC1]

And does this not require the booking to be part of a package i.e. as stated in the above listing, flights and accommodation (cruise), flights and car hire etc.? Just clarifying exactly what a 'package' is in the PTR regulation? Thanks :).

 

Cruise lines trip qualify as a package because it includes both overnight accommodations (i.e. a cabin) and transportation (the ships moves from one place to another). As such a trip by cruise line qualifies as a package, even if air travel is purchased else where. A ferry might not, but a cruise trip certainly does qualify.

 

Here is even part of the faq for consumer rights under the PTR1992 that discusses making a claim due to a cruise line making an itinerary change and if one can make a claim. Which depended upon if it is a major or minor change. If you read the UK cruise contract Celebrity does define a major vs minor change in itinerary (such language is not in the US contract).

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/a-change-was-made-to-my-cruise-itinerary-can-i-get-a-refund

Edited January 26, 2016 by RDC1

[MandB]

Can't think of a mean-spirited comment that would fit into this discourse so I will simply add the following:

In 2014 we had the privilege of taking a coach trip through England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland. Everyone we met was warm and friendly, and the countries were beautiful (although, Scotland was a bit chilly). So, whoever might get the better deals on cruises, I say -- Thank you Great Britain and Ireland for a trip we will never forget.

 

OK, now you can all jump on me for getting off topic. :rolleyes:

[wendychloecruiser]

You're quite right in what you're saying. We found this out while booking our last cruise while on the Eclipse in 2014. At that time we were reading the ship's adverts re booking for only $100 but once you let on you're from UK the deposit changes to £300 (non refundable)!

 

It doesn't seem fair at all, I agree. In fact with the US folk paying only $100, that's also refundable, it's no surprise that some people on CC have 4 or 5 upcoming cruises as their signatures!! There's no risk.

 

I've heard about Brits booking through US agents but it's not all that easy. Some won't even deal with you when they know you're from UK

 

Just don't deal with them then. Most others will. I haven't had any issues with booking with several US TAs, two in particular.

[MarkusToe]

its pending on the cruise, sometimes it's better (cheaper) to book US based sometimes at home (EU)...

 

not all cruise lines allow to book from outside US using a US TA..., by chance X does, p.e. HAL does not...

[MR_T]

Being from England it didn't take long to realise we would be better off using an American agent Vs one in the uk/direct with celebrity uk booking system... All it took was a very good recommendation on our first cruise over a martini just over 3 years ago and haven't looked back since... It's very easy to do once you have an agent & all my payments are made direct to celebrity so no worries there,

 

We also always book our flights separately to make sure we are in complete control of our own destiny & choice!

 

I have 6 future cruises booked with my agent and on everyone not only have I got a better price but I've also got great perks that were offered in the US at the time of booking!

 

The only time I've found it cheaper to book in the uk is when booking the eclipse for a cruise out of Southampton, other then that it's America all the way! [emoji4] even with the recent £ fall Vs the $ it's still working out much cheaper to book via the states for non uk departures factoring in the perks on offer...

[MarkusToe]

slightly different situation if you pay in €.....

 

p.e. 400US + OBC/pp saving for 7day Carib (drinks + OBC -OBC additional in US)

300€/pp saving on transpacific (no perks at all)

[Gordoncruickshank]

You're quite right in what you're saying. We found this out while booking our last cruise while on the Eclipse in 2014. At that time we were reading the ship's adverts re booking for only $100 but once you let on you're from UK the deposit changes to £300 (non refundable)!

 

It doesn't seem fair at all, I agree. In fact with the US folk paying only $100, that's also refundable, it's no surprise that some people on CC have 4 or 5 upcoming cruises as their signatures!! There's no risk.

 

I've heard about Brits booking through US agents but it's not all that easy. Some won't even deal with you when they know you're from UK

I would just like to say that all the cruises on my signature are a) booked via the UK b) have UK deposits paid on them. I would not like anyone would think that I was taking advantage of booking many cruises in the US that I do not intend taking. On each of the cruises I was getting the same benefits as via a US TA, discount in the UK on the cruise price and the overall cost was comparable in £ as the US price was. I booked here to be sure of the exchange rates and that has now worked very much in my favour.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Gordoncruickshank

[Newbury newbie]

Just don't deal with them then. Most others will. I haven't had any issues with booking with several US TAs, two in particular.

 

Rather than round on me, why don't you share with us all who these US TA's are. After all, isn't that one of the aims of these forums - to pass on cruising tips and help others?

[Ma Bell]

Rather than round on me, why don't you share with us all who these US TA's are. After all, isn't that one of the aims of these forums - to pass on cruising tips and help others?

 

We are not allowed to post the names of travel agents on these boards.

[wendychloecruiser]

Rather than round on me, why don't you share with us all who these US TA's are. After all, isn't that one of the aims of these forums - to pass on cruising tips and help others?

 

 

I would love to but it is strictly against the rules of CC.

[Newbury newbie]

Being from England it didn't take long to realise we would be better off using an American agent Vs one in the uk/direct with celebrity uk booking system... All it took was a very good recommendation on our first cruise over a martini just over 3 years ago and haven't looked back since... It's very easy to do once you have an agent & all my payments are made direct to celebrity so no worries there,

 

We also always book our flights separately to make sure we are in complete control of our own destiny & choice!

 

I have 6 future cruises booked with my agent and on everyone not only have I got a better price but I've also got great perks that were offered in the US at the time of booking!

 

The only time I've found it cheaper to book in the uk is when booking the eclipse for a cruise out of Southampton, other then that it's America all the way! [emoji4] even with the recent £ fall Vs the $ it's still working out much cheaper to book via the states for non uk departures factoring in the perks on offer...

 

The booking for my CB B2B, made directly through X UK, resulted in a "free" drinks package but nothing else, ie. no OBC or gratuities. So, for your upcoming CB cruise, booked via a US TA, have you got free drinks and other perks like OBC?

Edited January 27, 2016 by Newbury newbie

[wendychloecruiser]

As an example, our B2b Equinox cruise coming up we received $500 OBC, grats and drink package per cruise. The best I was offered through a very popular UK company was a drinks package and a higher rate. No brainer.

 

I have used a UK agent for a couple of med cruises and a Norwegian fiords cruise that were all cheaper than a US TA. I work too hard to just throw money away when with just a little effort I can save enough to sometimes pay for another cruise. (At least JUSTIFY another cruise to my DH!)

[Newbury newbie]

I would love to but it is strictly against the rules of CC.

 

Point taken, I wasn't familiar with that rule.

[MR_T]

The booking for my CB B2B, made directly through X UK, resulted in a "free" drinks package but nothing else, ie. no OBC or gratuities. So, for your upcoming CB cruise, booked via a US TA, have you got free drinks and other perks like OBC?

 

 

We booked our next Caribbean B2B & next years while the 123Go promo was on in the states last year (before the current American BBB deal appeared) and we got the drinks package/paid gratuities/$300 OBC per week... Plus OBC from our agent! And the actual cruise fare was cheaper then the uk offer that only included the drinks... [emoji33]

[MR_T]

As an example, our B2b Equinox cruise coming up we received $500 OBC, grats and drink package per cruise. The best I was offered through a very popular UK company was a drinks package and a higher rate. No brainer.

 

 

 

I have used a UK agent for a couple of med cruises and a Norwegian fiords cruise that were all cheaper than a US TA. I work too hard to just throw money away when with just a little effort I can save enough to sometimes pay for another cruise. (At least JUSTIFY another cruise to my DH!)

 

 

Agree completely!

 

We did the fjords last May and it was much cheaper to book through celebrity X uk, but this was the only cruise we've found it to be that way!

 

Friends of ours recently booked to join us for a week in March and booked direct with a uk travel agent & for what they paid (they only got the cruise only in a 2D cabin!) My agent could of got them the same cabin for the same amount of money but also the drinks package/gratuities/OBC plus OBC from my agent included for the same amount!! [emoji15]

 

They booked with a uk travel agent as just like a lot of people over here they use high street travel agents for advice and fall into there trap...

[gowilk]

I wonder if anyone could me help regarding my future cruise booking made with a UK TA. When I go to make the booking in the UK a deposit is required of several hundreds of pounds and is non refundable at any point, also if I book a guarantee cabin this cannot be changed. However Americans booking the same cruise do not have this stipulation and can cancel with a full refund up to about the 90 day departure point. Also if they book a guarantee cabin they are allowed to change if other cabins are available. The situation now is that we are not booking on the same terms as our American friends, booking some of the best cabins knowing they can cancel and if they book a guarantee cabin then that can be changed .To make matters even worse is if the price drops then even that is matched. What chance have UK cruisers got we are always going to get the worst cabin as the cruise lines know we cannot change.-or do I have it all wrong and this is not the case

 

This is the MOST important post on this board as the most important in life is fairness, everything MUST be fair....politics 101