Heads Up About UBP on Disembarkation Day

[SuiteCruiser]

It's not just NCL. This happens on Carnival and Royal Caribbean ships as well. I'm surprised that Celebrity didn't charge you.

 

NCL used to use handwriten receipts until sailaway and perhaps that's what Celebrity does. They then enter them once you're out at sea. Either that, or they just pick up the taxees themselves.

[buckeyefrank]

I will try to clear some of this confusion up as I"m a CPA. I am not in FL but most states are pretty similar.

 

When a ship is in port, all sales transactions including free drinks are required to be charged sales tax. The sales tax is passed on to the consumer MOST of the time. There are times a business can decide to pay the sales tax out of their profits on behalf of the consumer. Celebrity has decided to eat the cost of the tax while in port so the customer does not see a charge. However, Celebrity is being charged and is paying the sales tax.

 

Sales tax is based on the gross, standard price of the transaction before discounts. So a free drink is still charged tax at the $11 or whatever the standard price is and is required to be remitted to FL.

 

The only difference is dining plans. Generally speaking dinners eaten in a restaurant are exempt from sales tax, which is why dining packages are not charged tax for any cruise lines.

[hawkeyetlse]

But can anyone tell me what the tax is on a drink that's costing me $0 lol it is just odd I have many similar scenarios, and this will be the first one charging tax on a free promotion. Just strange and a bit like a money grab it is. Come on Disney of all nickel and dimers isn't doing it lol

If anyone is grabbing the money, it's the state/local government. If the cruise lines could find a way to avoid charging the tax, they surely would, because it upsets customers so much. I don't know if Celebrity lowers the prices of everything on board while in port and hands over the difference as tax, or if they are simply in violation of local tax laws; neither one of these is something I would expect the cruise line to do for me. I mean, if they are paying the tax on customers' behalf, that is exceedingly generous of them, but a cruise line that does not do this is not nickel and diming, in my opinion.

[mjkacmom]

I would think it would have ended the night before for a 7 night cruise. You are also only charged the DSC for 7 nights, not 8.

[rvsullivan]

And, MA and LA also charge the sales tax in port. For those arguing about last day drinks included, I think we all agree you are buying a 7 day package? You could have a choice I guess, but the current way gives you access to more drinks.

Assume a Sunday to Sunday cruise:

Sunday boarding= 1

Monday=2

Tuesday=3

Wed=4

Thur=5

Fri=6

Sat=7

If they give you drinks after midnight on Sat. you are in bonus area! Would some prefer no included drinks on boarding day and be able to drink on the last morning? It is always a 8 day, 7 night cruise and they sell a 7 day drink package.

[khaide612]

And, MA and LA also charge the sales tax in port. For those arguing about last day drinks included, I think we all agree you are buying a 7 day package? You could have a choice I guess, but the current way gives you access to more drinks.

Assume a Sunday to Sunday cruise:

Sunday boarding= 1

Monday=2

Tuesday=3

Wed=4

Thur=5

Fri=6

Sat=7

If they give you drinks after midnight on Sat. you are in bonus area! Would some prefer no included drinks on boarding day and be able to drink on the last morning? It is always a 8 day, 7 night cruise and they sell a 7 day drink package.

 

I think the argument is that there are 24 hours in a day. If you board at noon Sunday, 1 day runs until noon Monday, etc. So your 7 day package shouldn't end until noon on the Sunday of disembarkation.

[hawkeyetlse]

I would think it would have ended the night before for a 7 night cruise. You are also only charged the DSC for 7 nights, not 8.

The way I see it, you are charged the DSC for 7 days (24-hour periods). Most people don't receive any service at all during the night…

For those arguing about last day drinks included, I think we all agree you are buying a 7 day package?

I do not agree: "Enjoy a wide selection of soft drinks, beers, spirits, cocktails, wines by the glass and bottled or draft beer up to and including $15 during your entire cruise." (Beverage Packages)

 

If they want to start charging for drinks on the last morning, they need to update the marketing description and the terms of the package to make this clear. Or just say that all the bars are closed that morning (and no drink service in the MDR, either). As long as they continue giving away the UBP as a perk, it's hard to complain too much about the policy, but the lack of transparency/communication about changes in policy is as infuriating as ever.

Edited February 19, 2016 by hawkeyetlse

[Tybug]

Actually, sailings from LA charge sales tax as long as you are in the Mississippi River. Sailed the Dawn recently and we paid the tax on the way out and after about 11:00 pm on the return (just as soon as we hit the river).

[Moby0215]

I just find it strange... We have cruised with Celebrity a few times and have never had so many nickel and dime charges. We only booked our cruise with NCL yesterday and feel like it was the wrong decision. Looking for something to ease our minds. How can they charge you tax on something that is free? Something to ask NCL I guess...

 

 

Taxes are charged on free items. It's not just an NCL thing. Imagine you won a car, you surely would pay taxes on that.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bruadhin]

I will try to clear some of this confusion up as I"m a CPA. I am not in FL but most states are pretty similar.

 

When a ship is in port, all sales transactions including free drinks are required to be charged sales tax. The sales tax is passed on to the consumer MOST of the time. There are times a business can decide to pay the sales tax out of their profits on behalf of the consumer. Celebrity has decided to eat the cost of the tax while in port so the customer does not see a charge. However, Celebrity is being charged and is paying the sales tax.

 

Sales tax is based on the gross, standard price of the transaction before discounts. So a free drink is still charged tax at the $11 or whatever the standard price is and is required to be remitted to FL.

 

The only difference is dining plans. Generally speaking dinners eaten in a restaurant are exempt from sales tax, which is why dining packages are not charged tax for any cruise lines.

 

I am not a CPA. I would agree with you up to the last part. Where are restaurant meals not subject to sales tax? My experience is limited to Southern states and paying for meals. I seem to recall even paying sales tax in Florida and at Disney. I did not pay tax when using the Dining Plan at Disney, but I am pretty sure I saw tax on the receipt when paying on trips we did not have the dining plan.

 

Is it possible that Disney is paying the tax and has priced it into their promo when giving away the Dining Plan? I know if purchased or upgraded, tax is included in the purchase price.

[Angelo_R]

I will try to clear some of this confusion up as I"m a CPA.

 

Sales tax is based on the gross, standard price of the transaction before discounts. So a free drink is still charged tax at the $11 or whatever the standard price is and is required to be remitted to FL.

 

You hit the nail on the head. Free UBP drinks are NOT free drinks. When your card is swiped, you are charged for accounting and tax purposes, then credited based on the UBP restrictions (types of drinks allowed, dollar limit, etc) which the ship probably lists as a "promo". The promo is given by the ship, but the taxes are still required by the port/state. At all FL ports, the tax is 7% - the ship is charged $0.70 on a "promo" $10.00 drink. NCL, RCL, and Carnival make you pay it. Celebrity and others decide pay it for you.

 

And, MA and LA also charge the sales tax in port. For those arguing about last day drinks included, I think we all agree you are buying a 7 day package? You could have a choice I guess, but the current way gives you access to more drinks.

Assume a Sunday to Sunday cruise:

Sunday boarding= 1

Monday=2

Tuesday=3

Wed=4

Thur=5

Fri=6

Sat=7

If they give you drinks after midnight on Sat. you are in bonus area! Would some prefer no included drinks on boarding day and be able to drink on the last morning? It is always a 8 day, 7 night cruise and they sell a 7 day drink package.

 

This is true... but not accurate as some have said 1 day=24 hours. So 7 days would be 168 hrs. Day 1 officially starts when you board the ship, which in most cases boarding starts around 11am-noon. So, day 1 in this case is 12 hours. Day 2-7 are full 24 hrs. 156 hrs ≠ 168 hrs.

 

"Day 8" (Sun) starts at midnight. Room tabs are cut off about 2am to close accounts and print room bills. Anything billed after will be charged directly to your cc (mini-bar use for example). You're off the ship by 10am.

 

I know they don't charge 8 days of service charges ($13.50/pp/pd) because they would be double dipping on the last day - charging those getting off the ship, and also charging those getting on the ship. But in the case of the drink package, if they cut it off at 2am the morning of debarkation, they are double dipping - charging current passengers for 10 hours that should cover drinks but don't (2am-noon), and charging new boarding passengers for the first 12 hours they can't use it (midnight-noon).

 

Think of a hotel... while you pay for "1 day", you only get 20 hours as check-in is usually 2pm and checkout is 10am. You can argue that one can get early check-in (noon?) and late checkout (11am).

 

My personal opinion is I feel the alcohol should stop flowing at 2am so people have their senses about them to pack up and get off the ship (and get home) safely. I'm sure cruise lines have been sued over drunk passengers getting behind the wheel to drive home and injuring/killing someone. The rights/responsibilities are a bit different for a cruise ship bar vs. a local bar, but the results can be the same.

[zdcatc12]

Carnival's Cheers Package runs from whatever time you buy it until 6 am each day. They make it clear that it ends at 6 am. This also may be because they have a 15-drink limit per day, they are forced to make it a specific time frame,

[vicocala]

That would be a question for the State of Florida, not NCL. It's a state sales tax.

 

6% is Florida State Sales Tax, each county can add up to 1% local sales tax. But yes, it is fact, not a rumor. You will be charged while inside Florida waters. Our captain on one cruise stated an hour after sailaway, not the statutory limits. The crew on the Sky and Getaway both made that very clear every drink we purchased while in port. Starting the next day, we didn't even get a slip. They just charged or looked at the card and that was that.

[helen haywood]

As another poster has mentioned, on Celebrity if you were given the beverage package as a perk/promotion you are not charged the local taxes while in Miami. If you do not have the package and order a drink you will be charged the local taxes. Perhaps MissSparky had the package and thus wasn't charged the taxes. Celebrity is paying it for you and NCL is not and therefore you are charged.

 

On our recent Escape cruise there was a mention in one of the dailies as to the time the UBP would expire. Perhaps Doug who recently did such a great job testing the package in the name of research could chime in as to the cut off time. Seems it was 2 or such am.

[xriva]

Is it possible that Disney is paying the tax and has priced it into their promo when giving away the Dining Plan? I know if purchased or upgraded, tax is included in the purchase price.

 

I would assume this is the case. I know that it's not a question of who pays the tax, but that the tax is paid. If you buy a dining plan, then there is (probably) tax on the dining plan, and food is "free". (Not "free" but "pre-paid". Each individual meal is not a separate transaction.)

 

With UBP, drinks are included (it's in the T&Cs.) However, they charge you for the drink plus tax (if applicable) and then back off the cost of the drink, which leaves the taxes. Somebody has to pay it.

 

I'm pretty sure that NCL could just keep track of the alcohol charges within 12 miles of a US port, calculate the tax, and pay it - but it is easier to get the customer to pay it, I suppose. Their systems are designed to ring up drinks and then add tax when near a port. The UBP part of the system backs out the cost of the drink, but not the tax.

[Tjcanada86]

Taxes are charged on free items. It's not just an NCL thing. Imagine you won a car, you surely would pay taxes on that.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

We are lucky here in Canada lol we don't get taxed on lottery winnings or winning cars. I'm starting to think maybe we did not get taxed because we got the Celebrity promotion in Canada. We will see when we board. I don't know it's just odd coming from Celebrity and not getting taxed to getting taxed on free drinks. If Celebrity eats the tax then it will for sure be a point towards Celebrity. I know it's small but it's something to show they care about the passengers. Strange they call it Ultimate too even the classic beverage package includes water and specialty coffee along with canned pop and other stuff. But I'm going to be going on NCL with an open mind and looking forward to the waterslides lol no doubt NCL will have perks over Celebrity and vice-versa. All about personal preference

[bruadhin]

I would assume this is the case. I know that it's not a question of who pays the tax, but that the tax is paid. If you buy a dining plan, then there is (probably) tax on the dining plan, and food is "free". (Not "free" but "pre-paid". Each individual meal is not a separate transaction.)

 

With UBP, drinks are included (it's in the T&Cs.) However, they charge you for the drink plus tax (if applicable) and then back off the cost of the drink, which leaves the taxes. Somebody has to pay it.

 

I'm pretty sure that NCL could just keep track of the alcohol charges within 12 miles of a US port, calculate the tax, and pay it - but it is easier to get the customer to pay it, I suppose. Their systems are designed to ring up drinks and then add tax when near a port. The UBP part of the system backs out the cost of the drink, but not the tax.

 

Here is the difference and I am sure what drives how taxes are handled.

 

All Disney Dining Plan meals/snacks will be obtained while within the confines of Disney Property and thus Florida. I believe all of Disney is even in Orange County.

 

The vast majority of any beverage package from any cruise line will be consumed while outside of the US, and the vast majority of that while in international waters.

 

So, for Disney it make sense to tax the package and avoid dealing with it on a per meal basis. For the cruise lines, much more tax would be collected than is really due. Instead, it results in a lower tax bill to simply tax all drinks ordered while in US waters. Additionally, we are talking about alcohol. Alcohol is almost always treated as a special case. Texas does not even allow something like UBP. Instead, it has to start the next day once safely in international waters. At least this was the case with Cheers and I would assume UBP is similar.

[bruadhin]

We are lucky here in Canada lol we don't get taxed on lottery winnings or winning cars. I'm starting to think maybe we did not get taxed because we got the Celebrity promotion in Canada. We will see when we board. I don't know it's just odd coming from Celebrity and not getting taxed to getting taxed on free drinks. If Celebrity eats the tax then it will for sure be a point towards Celebrity. I know it's small but it's something to show they care about the passengers. Strange they call it Ultimate too even the classic beverage package includes water and specialty coffee along with canned pop and other stuff. But I'm going to be going on NCL with an open mind and looking forward to the waterslides lol no doubt NCL will have perks over Celebrity and vice-versa. All about personal preference

 

Florida sales and liquor taxes have nothing to do with where you are from. These taxes are always due at time of purchase unless otherwise exempt. Being Canadian doesn't qualify for that exemption. It appears that Celebrity has simply decided to eat the tax for beverage package purchasers. That or they are not computing the sales tax properly. I hope it is not the later as they will be in for a world of hurt once Florida's Department of Revenue or equivalent finds out.

[LrgPizza]

Sometimes the bartenders forget to enter the tax. These are 3 receipts for the exact same drink (Cherry Limeaid) at the exact same bar (Waves) while docked in Miami prior to sailing. You'll notice 3 different prices. One of the receipts didn't have tax charged.

 

Edit: By the way, we had UBP, so the drink price and gratuity was zeroed off our account.

 

Edited February 19, 2016 by LrgPizza

[Vyhanek]

It can't be a tax issue or the same thing would happen on embarkation day. When the decks in Miami are filled with passengers drinking on the first day.

 

I think the issue is that the drink package is for a 7 day cruise. If you drink that last morning, that's really day 8.

[bruadhin]

Sometimes the bartenders forget to enter the tax. These are 3 receipts for the exact same drink (Cherry Limeade) at the exact same bar (Waves) while docked in Miami prior to sailing. You'll notice 3 different prices. One of the receipts didn't have tax charged.

 

Edit: By the way, we had UBP, so the drink price and gratuity was zeroed off our account.

 

 

I am a bit surprised by that. Why leave it up to the bartender to know whether or not to charge the tax? They could easily get busy or distracted or whatever and not realize they have left or entered US waters. You would think a manager or officer would be tasked with telling the system when to start and stop charging tax. You would still have the problem of a waiter being slow in entering a drink order, but I think that would be less of an issue than a bartender/waiter/etc. remembering if they are in US waters or not.

 

I cannot speak to Florida, but here sales and liquor taxes are a BIG, BIG, BIG deal. Nothing gets a bar or restaurant closed faster than a discrepancy on their liquor tax forms. The state ABC could care less if you serve a minor or not, but you better have accounted for every last drink so all taxes are paid.

[Tjcanada86]

Florida sales and liquor taxes have nothing to do with where you are from. These taxes are always due at time of purchase unless otherwise exempt. Being Canadian doesn't qualify for that exemption. It appears that Celebrity has simply decided to eat the tax for beverage package purchasers. That or they are not computing the sales tax properly. I hope it is not the later as they will be in for a world of hurt once Florida's Department of Revenue or equivalent finds out.

 

Was trying to give NCL the benefit without doubt before i board in way to long from now lol I was thinking if it could have something to do with where the promotion was given out and if it would go by our rules, but ya cant be it. Found a link on Florida's tax laws on promotional packages http://dor.myflorida.com/Forms_library/current/gt800035.pdf just crazy they can tax on food products not being profited on. Celebrity's got to paying the tax on the drinks. There is no way they could get away with that for at least 3 years. Its a bit clearer now but still mind boggling being taxed on free because of Florida lol

[C-line]

For what it's worth, here's our last day UBP story. We got off the Breakaway on Feb 14.

 

The O'Sheehan's menu advertised breakfast drink specials for Bloody Marys and Mimosas. We ordered a Bloody Mary with breakfast. First we were told we couldn't order it because the bar was closed. Then our server said he would get one from the Atrium bar and bring it up. He did tell us that the UBP wouldn't cover it. When we got our slip we were charged almost double the price listed on the menu (plus port tax, which I understand). When we questioned it we were told that the drink specials didn't actually start until 9 am - there was no mention of this anywhere on the menu. Ok, fair enough.

 

We ordered another one a few minutes later (a few minutes after 9) and when we were again charged full price our server said it was because the drink specials don't apply to debarkation day and the drink specials were actually for the passengers boarding that day (who would not be seeing the breakfast menu). I know it may seem like we were being jerks putting in two separate orders from the Atrium bar downstairs but my husband was trying to prove a point by then.

 

So... We paid full price for the two drinks plus port taxes, and it came to something like $25 for the two drinks. Husband spoke to a manager at O'Sheehan's who refunded the difference between what we paid and the advertised price. I suspect the reason we were charged full price in the first place was because the drinks were rung up in the Atrium bar but I wasn't there when husband spoke to the manager and he said the manager didn't really give a reason for the higher charge.

[hawkeyetlse]

On our recent Escape cruise there was a mention in one of the dailies as to the time the UBP would expire. Perhaps Doug who recently did such a great job testing the package in the name of research could chime in as to the cut off time. Seems it was 2 or such am.

If anyone can post a scan of that Daily it would be useful for this thread. I'm not happy about the cutback, but at least it's a small step in the right direction as far as written communication goes. Because springing it on people at the breakfast table when they try to order something on the last morning really stinks. :mad:

[helen haywood]

Doug, Doug, we need you!!