X...the phoney cruise line.

[canderson]

Where is the thread that calls Celebrity "phoney?" Would love to read it.

OK, you're right. The word used was "Fako". The thread has been deleted by the moderators.

[Karynanne]

My name is Catmand and I am a phoney, my wife is AkaWanda and she is a falsie.

 

 

Sounds like a 12 step program is needed Chuck...

 

Karyn

[Karynanne]

Allen, you've found me out!:eek: I'm really just a pod person being controlled by a Pembroke Welsh Corgi- :D

 

And hey, I have friends named Biff, Skip, Chip, Muffy, and CeeCee, so watch it!:mad: Ya' know, when you get to know the lock-jaw set, they can be pretty amusing!:)

 

Hubble had this to add: "The best people to cruise with are those who know how to laugh at themselves, and appreciate human foibles in others, with out being mean."

 

Andrew

 

Andrew, I have a friend named Muffin...can she come and play with us too!

 

Karyn

[Blazerboy]

Sure, and I'll invite my neighbor, Bunny!

 

Actually, I do have a neighbor named Bunny, but at least she's a 'she.' I went to high school with a GUY named 'Bunny!' :eek: Poor thing thought he escaped the knickname in college, but unfortunately, my brother went to the same college, so the name stuck for another four years.:rolleyes:

 

Andrew

[catmand]

Blue Jeans will be allowed in all dining rooms on all Houston departures, due to the Texas culture.

Blue Jeans will be allowed in the Trattoria's in the evenings.

Bermuda shorts with knee high socks, or Scottish kilts with knee highs will also be allowed in all dining rooms in Bermuda as these are considered formal dress in Bermuda.

Hawaiian shirts are allowed with proper slacks in all dining rooms.

Ladies Capri Pants, which are a length between the knee and ankles, are acceptable in all fine dining rooms as long as they are not blue jean capris.

Before I am accused of any disparaging remarks about our Texas friends, I took the above quote directly out of a cruise lines FAQ. There are plenty of options, I still wonder at the "Zekes" whom I sat next to for 12 nights aboard Infinity.

Karyn, I will give that 12 step some thought.

[Danno]

... the only thing to do is to ask them if they think they're as good as you. When they say "yes," always respond with "Well, act like it, then!":D

 

Andrew

 

 

I LOVE THAT!!! Can I use it....can I?? Can I huh?? PLEASE!!!

[ocngypz]

OMG, Danno.... I am ROFLMAO.................... then I must be a 10 out of 10 on the phoney scale........I even wear dresses on casual night! Drink champagne every day while on a cruise.. and horrors of horrors... book suites most of the time!

 

In my everyday life.. I'm wearing khaki's.. drink English tea (that's probably on the phoney list).. and eat more Lean Cuisine meals.. standing up than I care to count.

 

Jeesh... some people are strange, eh?

[catmand]

Danno, I say go ahead and use it. Blazerboy has a real bad habit of leaving his office around five and not using a computer at home. I think it is bad manners to leave for evening and week ends but, to each his own.

By the way, I remember you talking about trying a land vacation, were you able to get away?

[canderson]

In my everyday life.. I'm wearing khaki's.. drink English tea (that's probably on the phoney list)..

Not if it's PG Tips. There's a good workingman's tea:D but Buckingham Palace Garden Party loose tea, now that's another story altogether.

[seagulls]

I have boned up on the suggested dress code and will be following it. I will not put the staff in the difficult position of having to tell me I am improperly dressed. So I guess you have to put me down as a phoney too.

 

On Friday I board the Century and to be frank I can't let it bother me what anyone else is wearing as long as they are clean and don't smell. This is the age of I will do what I want, it is sad but the non conformists are not worth ruining my vacation over.

[Danno]

 

By the way, I remember you talking about trying a land vacation, were you able to get away?

 

No...we found a great cruise and old friends asked to join us on our next cruise...so it's Century, 9 days in Feb/06.

 

You think a cruise isn't one of the best vacations...try to find a better one.

 

Thanks OCYN...nice to have you back...nice to be back myself...you eat STANDING UP?? Ick! ;)

 

Oh and the spelling of "phoney" vs "phony"...it's a Canadian thing, like centre, tyre, metre, cheque...;)

[Ocean Boy]

Apparently, my choice of words, "Refined Adults" specifically, has caused quite a stir on the other thread. Do you guys think that was an innapropriate phrase to describe people who maintain their formal attire through out the evening?

Well I have seen some people in formal wear doing some stuff that I would hardly think of as being "refined." I think that is what "cracked me up":D It really is a term that refers to much more than someones clothing. I hope that I didn't say anything mean. I didn't intend anything to come off that way.

[Cruise Arizona]

I didn't mean to sound crabby or be mean either. Like I said I just put my UNEDITED thoughts out there. Which is something I would never do in polite conversation.

 

I should probably consult with Andrew next time before I stick my neck out next time. He always finds a way to say something tackfully... you know his 90% rule and the like.

 

Perhaps if I have chosen my words more carefully, the discussion would have remained more civil, and not turned into the personal attacks from others that got the thread killed.

[Arubalisa]

Any way, I will be having guests over for tea and caviar tomorrow, I do so hope you'll join me. After wards we can go over and watch the ponies. It would be just grand. We'll bring along a bottle of Dom Perinion.

 

Ok I can't spell Dom Perinion or what ever. I am showing what phoney I really am, heck we'll just have some of that Mogdan David then.

 

Gotta go now, I have to hose off my air filters.

Why not come over for some Verve Cliquot? Dom Perignon, Moet Chandon, Perrier-Jouet, Piper Heidseick...they all just give me such heartburn...my butler knows how I like it chilled :D

 

Back to the real world, I was in my late 30's when I was able to afford my first bottle of Verve Cliquot and I am now off to scrub my bathroom. Where is that butler when I really need him??? Oh, that's right, he is out washing the car because we are going to the theater this evening.... :cool:

[Ocean Boy]

Perhaps if I have chosen my words more carefully, the discussion would have remained more civil, and not turned into the personal attacks from others that got the thread killed.

No, your words would have made no difference. I've been part of CC for awhile now. Threads on dress almost always deteriorate into chaos. It just always amazes me that something can be such a heated topic here when it isn't out on the ships. You read more stuff here from people getting ready to go on their first cruise who are SO consumed about clothes after reading stuff here. Then they come back from their cruise realizing that they were all stressed out over nothing.

 

But your line still cracks me up!!;) :D :D Sorry, I had to add that!

[ECCruise]

Since it was my original post on a thread devoted to changing clothes after dinner on formal night (later deleted) that was taken completely out of context and became the basis for this thread, I feel that I should comment. If my thoughts were misunderstood, I sincerely apologize, but believe that anything beyond a cursory read of my comments would have not left such a misconception.

 

First, some background. I am, by no means, a "Celebrity basher." Captains Club Elite, 40+ days on Celebrity ships in the last year or so in Alaska, Pacific Coast, Europe, Bermuda and the Caribbean pretty much qualify me as, first, as Celebrity fan and second, fully capable of commenting on the current state of Celebrity cruising. At least as much as some of those who bashed me who have far less experience with Celebrity. As for dress codes, I fully support them in virtually all instances. Have never dressed in anything but the dress code of the evening at any time on our 20 cruises.

 

The comment that so started this "phoney" or "phony" discussion was in response to a couple of posts that spoke of, to paraphrase, the "fantasy" of sailing Celebrity. The "retro" feeling. Going back to a more refined time. The feeling that being dressed up makes me feel like a princess and my DH, my prince. Fine. No problem. I have no desire to intrude on your fantasy, but folks, it just ain't real. The fantasy was what I referred to as "Fako. Retro." Not the people. The notion that someone dressed casually at midnight on a formal night was going to ruin your fantasy.

 

All of this started because I defended the very few number of people who, on a formal night, may want to take part in some of the ship's activities without being in formal clothes, whether because they changed or did not dine in the formal dining room. I brought up a scenario, which no one took the time to discuss, let alone refute:

 

Passengers have just returned from a late shore excursion (bought and paid for through Celebrity) and have missed early seating dinner. Having no problem with the situation, they dine on Casual Dining Boulevard, gladly paying the $2 per person fee. Obviously, they are dressed casually, but well. Dress shirt and slacks for the man, a coordinated outfit for the woman. Done dining, they would like to see the show, since on formal nights it is generally one of the gala shows. My contention was that these folks have as much right to attend the show as those who dined in the formal dining room.

 

For this I was called "classless" and "defender of the classless". My argument was "spurious". I was helping with the "dumbing down of American civilization." I was defending people who were going to ruin the entire Celebrity cruising experience.

 

Come on, folks. If seeing someone in the casino at midnight dressed casually but nicely is going to ruin your cruise experience or cause the downfall of Western Civilization as we know it, you frankly have a problem, not me.

 

Should Celebrity maintain dress codes in their dining? Yes. Are they going to do so 100%? Probably not. Should they police this policy late into the evening when half of the ship is asleep? That is Celebrity's call. Not mine. Not yours. But the chances of it happening are slim and none. Like I said in one of my villified posts, I have spent a good deal of time with officers, crew and staff on Celebrity ships recently and universally their focus is on everyone having an outstanding cruise experience. Does that mean that you may bump into someone in a hallway dressed casually at 5:45 or 11:45 on a casual night or sit next to them in the casino at 1:00 AM? Sure. No one is going to force them back to their room or make them exit the casino. And honestly, I really don't feel that it is that big a deal. It won't ruin my cruise. I'll get over it.

 

And CruiseArizona, you were one of the few civil posters on the other side. You even took a lighthearted approach at the end, which was appreciated. Let me be the first to buy you a drink!

[Blazerboy]

Danno, use it to your heart's content. I got it from my grandmother, and I think the story goes that it was from Dame May Whitty. My grandmother was always coming out with frosty-waspy put downs, so it doesn't surprise me that she'd adopted this one.

 

Long reminiscence warning- may have told this on CC before!

 

My favorite story is from a coctail party that she had to introduce my aunt and uncle to the village where my grandparents retired. She invited all the neighbors, including a new neighbor that no one knew, but had heard this woman liked to "make a splash." Grandma had someone bartending, and three teenage girls from the village helping in the kitchen and passing hors d'oeuvres. Since she'd moved in recently, the house was open for tours. This neighbor walked around the house (a 1715 farm house that had been expanded over the years) and sniffed that she didn't like old houses, and certainly wouldn't have any of the "old furniture"- and that, when she got her house, she got everything new! (she was refering to my grandmohter's antique collection!) The neighbor then sniffed that, at her last cocktail party, she had TWO bartenders, and SIX people passing hors d'oeuvres (I can't swear to it, but I think she actually said "snacks":rolleyes: ) She proceded to tell everyone about her money, her jewels, etc., etc. All of this got back to my grandmother, who was greeting guests in the formal parlor. When this neighbor introduced herself, she said "Hello, Mrs. Ford, I hope our new house doesn't block your view of the harbor." My grandmother, with out missing a beat, said "Oh no, we'll overlook you...":D

 

Always could count on Grandma for the subtle put-down that went over the recipient's head.:)

 

Andrew

[Longboysfan]

Hello, I'm Darcie and I'm a cruise phoney. This posting is the first step in my 12 step cruise phoniness program.

 

You go, Danno !!!!

 

You must now book 11 cruises.

At least one each year. Back to back do not count as extra.

Get and wear a Cruise Critic shirt while on board.

You must make an attempt the drag along any phoney friends you have with you.

You must take you sun tan lotion and put a big P on your....

We'll leave that up to you.

Preferably where at least one person can see.

If they comment - you must confess.

There are other requirements in the step down process...

But I think others can fill you in.

[WeBeCruisin']

." Captains Club Elite, 40+ days on Celebrity ships in the last year or so in Alaska, Pacific Coast, Europe, Bermuda and the Caribbean pretty much qualify me as, first, as Celebrity fan and second, fully capable of commenting on the current state of Celebrity cruising. At least as much as some of those who bashed me who have far less experience with Celebrity.

Passengers have just returned from a late shore excursion (bought and paid for through Celebrity) and have missed early seating dinner. Having no problem with the situation, they dine on Casual Dining Boulevard, gladly paying the $2 per person fee. Obviously, they are dressed casually, but well. Dress shirt and slacks for the man, a coordinated outfit for the woman. Done dining, they would like to see the show, since on formal nights it is generally one of the gala shows. My contention was that these folks have as much right to attend the show as those who dined in the formal dining room.

 

 

If seeing someone in the casino at midnight dressed casually but nicely is going to ruin your cruise experience or cause the downfall of Western Civilization as we know it, you frankly have a problem, not me.

 

!

 

EC, I guess I'm one of those who don't qualify to have an opinion about Celebrity since I don't have your 40 days of experience with them. I only have 36.

 

I think what annoyed people on the other thread as much as anything was that you appeared to be characterizing people who enjoy the formal experience as being phony and "fako".

 

Also your "arguments" were indeed spurious because you kept relying on extreme and exaggerated examples to "prove" your point. You have done the same in this most recent post when you describe the couple who returned from their excursion too late to make it to the formal dinner. You characterize them as wearing dress shirts and slacks and a "coordinated" outfit for the woman. Is that the way they dress on their excursions? Most people wear shorts or jeans on excursions. Or did they return from the excursion and change into their "elegant" casual clothes? Another solution would be to stop by the room after their casual dinner and take ten seconds to put on a sports coat or blazer and some kind of female equivalent and then go on to the theater or the casino.

 

And the example of the person in the casino at midnight, dressed casually, but "nicely" is also an example of dramatic exaggeration.

 

The original post on the other thread seemed puzzled by the people who don't miss dinner, and who rush back to their rooms to don something like shorts and t-shirts as early as 6:30 or 7:00 p.m.

 

Again, I think where you upset a lot of people was when you appeared to be ridiculing them for enjoying the formal atmosphere which Celebrity offers, and which (for many of the passengers) was the primary reason they chose Celebrity over other cruise lines. You also appeared to condemn them for resenting that those in casual dress on formal nights were taking away from the experience Celebrity offered and for which they had paid.

 

And you wouldn't let it go. It appeared that you were trying to bludgeon the people who disagreed with you, and who felt attacked by you, into submitting to your philosophy.

 

Allen

[canderson]

All of this started because I defended the very few number of people who, on a formal night, may want to take part in some of the ship's activities without being in formal clothes, whether because they changed or did not dine in the formal dining room. I brought up a scenario, which no one took the time to discuss, let alone refute:

 

Passengers have just returned from a late shore excursion (bought and paid for through Celebrity) and have missed early seating dinner. Having no problem with the situation, they dine on Casual Dining Boulevard, gladly paying the $2 per person fee. Obviously, they are dressed casually, but well. Dress shirt and slacks for the man, a coordinated outfit for the woman. Done dining, they would like to see the show, since on formal nights it is generally one of the gala shows. My contention was that these folks have as much right to attend the show as those who dined in the formal dining room.

Actually, there wasn't any need to take it up again as it had been dealt with previously, although in a somewhat different context.

 

You use a similar expression again -- "..these folks have as much right..".

 

But DO they? In truth, they have whatever rights the line conveys to them -- no more and no less, and to that extent, the issue really is no different than that of dining room attire.

 

What you're describing may indeed be a situation that you feel to be UNFAIR. I've certainly done the casual dining thing when the return from a shore excursion caused us to return too late to even think about trying to change before eating. While it was an informal night, we still went back to the cabin to clean up and dress in attire appropriate to informal night before we headed out for the evening (including the show).

 

Whatever policies Celebrity wishes to put into place to create the "feel" they want for their cruises is really up to them. As I was noting yesterday (my luck - I hit "Submit" just as the thread was locked down!), each line attempts to put their own spin on the onboard experience. In large part, they are able to control this on their own. However, there are a few areas where the cooperation of their pax is crucial to maintaining the experience, and those who like the experience Celebrity is trying to create and sail with them because of it would obviously feel strongly about seeing it maintained.

 

As noted above, there are a couple of areas, not just mode of dress, that require the cooperation of the passengers. A second example would be the issue of smoking. Celebrity has put certain policies into play regarding smoking. I'm a smoker, and per policy, confine my activities aboard ship to the port side. In some cases (e.g., the casino), where the air system isn't likely to succeed in keeping this contained, I just avoid smoking altogether. It's a big ship, afterall. Most typically, I take it outdoors anyway.

 

Understanding that it requires that cooperation of Celebrity's pax in order to make the cruise experience what Celebrity would like it to be for non-smokers (hence their policy), and that non-smokers have certain expectations about their cruise experience because of the policies that Celebrity has chosen, do I have a "right" to smoke anywhere I please? Of course not. Celebrity determined long before Europe started changing its rules that it didn't want the "smoky cafe" atmosphere all over the ship. That's the way their passengers prefer it. That the staff on Celebrity's ships seem to do an inadequate job of enforcing their policies at times doesn't mean a) that the policy wasn't well considered, nor b) that exceptions should be made.

 

This still all falls into the expectations that people have of what a Celebrity cruise is all about, and no, you have no more "right" to dress as you please for a show than I do to smoke where I like. The line decides for us, and without becoming confrontational about it, request that we go along with the program. [And before wandering into the weeds of historical revisionism that would break the analogy, mind the real history -- this policy wasn't originally addressed as a health issue having to do with 2nd hand smoke. It was a matter of how the pax felt about it overall that caused this particular change in policy. In most cases, it started as a prohibition in the dining room.]

 

Some are willing to stick with the program, and some aren't. I hear horror stories posted about smokers on certain Euro itineraries where either the locals can't read or don't care about the port/starboard rule. I hear other stories about how dress codes are supposedly pretty well ignored on certain itineraries on the Mercury. Yes, people will chose to ignore whatever policies Celebrity has put into place, but while they take those liberties, that doesn't mean that they have the "right" to do so.

 

Last example. Celebrity doesn't have freestyle dining. You can't just show up in the main dining room and expect to be served. Celebrity has a "two seating" policy. One line has 4, others have none at all. I paid my money, and let's say my table is empty -- don't I have a "right" to appear when I like? Afterall, that's how it works in the "real world". Nope. No "right" at all. Doors close at a certain time after the seating starts. If the pax decided they had a "right" to the meal they paid for at the time they prefer, it would be total chaos in a Celebrity galley. They're just not structured for this, and have set a policy in place. If we wanted freestyle dining, we'd be sailing a line that offered that service. I don't have a right to freestyle dining on a Celebrity ship, and needn't expect them to ignore their policy of closing the doors at a specific time to suit me. Further, why would a passenger who sails Celebrity because they LIKE the current set seating arrangement for dinner approve of passengers who threatened the ability of the kitchen staff to produce their best product and service by wandering in whenever they felt like it? As it happens, this is one area where Celebrity pretty well sticks to their policy, and it doesn't require peer pressure to get people to show up on time.

 

Meanwhile, those of us who believe that the policies that Celebrity creates (and again, they don't just create them to annoy people -- they believe they help set the tone for the market segment they're after) work for us by creating an onboard experience we like would actually like to see Celebrity enforce those policies more aggressively, knowing full well that they probably won't do so since the staff hate to get caught in the middle of a policy and an angry guest. In fact, in order to keep peace, they seem to be willing to sacrifice policy to avoid confronting non-conformists, be they errant smokers or dressers. I still think Celebrity should take some additional training in managing these issues, and could do far better about more regularly approaching people in non-confrontational ways that would get the message across without bending too many of these people out of shape.

 

Anyway, the staff often don't deal with these issues, and look the other way. As a result, if we sail Celebrity in some part because of the policies, all we have left is peer pressure to help them do this. And that, I think, is what you find here on the Cruise Critic boards. It's not snobbery. Some people like the way Celebrity happens to run their show, regardless of how others feel about it (that's in large part why we're there and not on another cruise line again in December), and would hate to see it change just become some folks have preferences for their cruise experience that are at odds with Celebrity's concept of an onboard experience.

 

There seem to be enough return cruisers with Celebrity to keep the company profitable that like the policies as they are. What is wrong with those people saying "We like this as it is, please either get with the program or find a line that better suits your experience". Don't expect to dress as you like, don't expect freestyle dining, don't expect to smoke wherever you like (are there any lines that still allow it?), etc. If the pax as a whole like the policies, why wouldn't they want to see them enforced? And if not well enforced, it certainly seems to be in their best interest to apply peer pressure to "help" Celebrity do the job (again, welcome to CC).

[ECCruise]

Thanks for your input but I refuse to go round and round with you again and get this thread pulled.

 

All of the examples I used were instances that I have seen on Celebrity ships. They are not "dramatic exaggeration." And someone dining in casual dining could very well go to their cabin to change, they would not go in their "excursion wear". Since they were dining casually, they would not change into formal wear. Nowhere did I say, "elegant casual clothes" which you attributed to my post.

 

And your "36 days on Celebrity" more than qualify you for an opinion. I said people with substantially less time on the line, much of it not in the last year or so. And my 40 days is recent cruising on Celebrity (to give an up-to-date assessment) not total time on the line.

 

Let's be adults and just agree to disagree and stop going round and round with this topic. Neither you or I will change anything on the ships. People will continue to be in casual clothing on formal nights, Celebrity will not do anything about it. Some will be upset. Others will see no big deal.

[ECCruise]

All points well taken. Mostly I do not disagree with them. But you still shy away from the posture of my previous post. You said you have come back from late excursions and dined casually. But you note that you went and changed to "informal" clothes. The whole basis of this argument is FORMAL NIGHT. Not informal night. In the scenario you describe, would you go back to your cabin and put on your formal clothes at 11:00 at night to spend an hour or so in the casino?

 

If you would, I applaud you. But most people would not even thinking of doing that.

 

What I am saying, have been saying, and will continue to maintain that there are situations where people WILL be in casual clothing on formal nights. The cruise line cannot allow them the opportunity to dine and then force them to their cabin. If there was NOT the opportunity for casual dining, then you and I would probably be close to 100% in aggreement. But there is, and I respectfully submit that those people have just as much "right" (there's that pesky word again) to avail themselves of shipboard amenities as the "formals" do.

 

Thanks for your input, though. It is pretty well thought out, which is appreciated.

[Ocean Boy]

Canderson...

 

I very much agree with what you say. But my concern has always been that it makes little sense to offer casual dining and then expect people to have no access to the ship in the evening. They should get rid of the option and truly make the ship formal in the evening and market themselves that way. I think it sends a mixed message to say that "we offer casual dining for those you don't want to dress up. And, oh by the way, if you take advantage of this option that we offer you are barred from going to any public areas of the ship."

[WeBeCruisin']

would you go back to your cabin and put on your formal clothes at 11:00 at night to spend an hour or so in the casino?

.

 

There's that dramatic exaggeration again. The OP and just about everyone else is talking about people who put on their shorts and t-shirts immediately after finishing dinner, sometimes as early as 6:30 or 7:00, not the 11:00 or midnight you keep harping on.

 

And what percentage of excursions would get back so late on a formal night that you wouldn't finish your casual dinner until 11:00 p.m.?

 

And aren't most formal nights on sea days or days when you leave port earlier where you don't have excursions to delay your dining?

 

If everyone followed the dress code, then on the very rare occasions when someone was dressed inappropriately, they would probably get a lot of attention and sympathy, because people would know that some dire fate had prevented them from honoring the dress-code.

 

Your examples are extremes, EC, and yet you want us to think that these extreme situations account for virtually every person we see who is violating the dress code.

[ECCruise]

Canderson...

 

I very much agree with what you say. But my concern has always been that it makes little sense to offer casual dining and then expect people to have no access to the ship in the evening. They should get rid of the option and truly make the ship formal in the evening and market themselves that way. I think it sends a mixed message to say that "we offer casual dining for those you don't want to dress up. And, oh by the way, if you take advantage of this option that we offer you are barred from going to any public areas of the ship."

 

Right on the money OB. That is the main crux of the argument that has gotten me bashed repeatedly (mostly by the same cadre). My experience is that on formal nights, anywhere from 10-15% of the ship dines casually-either room service or on "Casual Dining Boulevard." Contrary to some of those who posture over and over here, that is not "extreme." It is anywhere from 150 to 300 people, depending on ship/itinerary/etc. That is a good portion of the passenger list that some want banned from virtually all areas of the ship. Trust me, though, Celebrity, has no intention of banning those people from revenue generating venues.