Repositioning cruise from Caribbean on Azura

[ChrisPBacon]

Just got back and thought I'd post my observations. As I've said on previous posts, many issues I found are nit-picks. The cruise was generally very good, but the same issues are present on every cruise.

 

The food in the Peninsular restaurant was excellent. If only they would give you enough cheese at the end of the meal to fill a cracker!

 

The buffet was as chaotic as ever. Whether you go for breakfast at 7am or 11am, you wonder round looking for a table, just long enough for your food to go cold. I waited for plates for a food five minutes one day.....another day, it was cups for a drink. The setup of the buffet is awful. Diners are funnelled through narrow channels, with some people wanting to walk both ways in that channel.

 

The evening buffet was ok for the most part, but some invention on the desserts please. The late buffet was hit and miss. I think there used to be food available for 24 hours, but not it closes at 1am. If you like jam butties, you are laughing, because they had them on the menu one night.

 

We had one meal in the Glasshouse......a fantastic steak.

 

The entertainment was good for the most part. Headliners as good as ever and old faces like Manuel Martinez and Paul Eastwood.

 

Photographs - stop charging silly, silly prices and you might sell more!

 

However, the service has taken a real nosedive in my opinion. The waiters and bar staff work hard, but there's not enough of them. Drinks service in the theatre was very poor and also in Brodie's (the bar).

 

I had a big issue with tips. Last September, the auto gratuities were set at £3.50 pppd. This cruise, they'd ramped it up to £5 pppd. That's an increase of around 30%. That's £130 for our cruise. I had £65 deducted. Partly because I thought the service level had dropped, but also because I suspect that P&O are using these tips to boost the pay of their staff, removing the need to increase their pay? I have no actual info on that, but I doubt they are increasing the tips so much, and then also raising pay? I got the feeling that many were refusing the auto tips. I did tip my cabin steward extra.

 

I had never been to the 'Chocaholics' event before and have hoped to do it on the last two cruises, but it wasn't held. Have P&O ditched it?

 

I saw a few changes to the service. I got the impression that they are cutting back? Yet at a recent cruise show, the P&O rep acknowledged that the Caribbean cruise saver prices stayed high for this year because they sold so well.....they didn't have to discount them. So it's strange seeing service levels drop.

 

Another recent addition to your cruise cost, over the last year, is an introduction of a £100 supplement to fly from Manchester to the Caribbean. How is this justified when fuel prices have been very low?

 

The cruise was overall ok, but on a personal note, I wouldn't do a repositioning cruise again. 5 days at sea to the Azores and then another 3 to Southampton was too much, even though the weather was good all the way to the Azores. It's a long, long crossing!

 

P&O need to be careful. I'm sure first-timers loved it, but the experienced cruisers are seeing the changes, and they don't like them!

 

 

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[Yesrock52]

 

Another recent addition to your cruise cost, over the last year, is an introduction of a £100 supplement to fly from Manchester to the Caribbean. How is this justified when fuel prices have been very low?

 

 

 

 

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This doesn't sit well with me either. I posted the paragraph below about two years ago when Manchester supplements were announced

 

Manchester is the airport we always fly from when travelling to the Caribbean with P and O.

I have been to a site which gives the distance between cities. When checking London/Manchester to Barbados it is actually a shorter distance from Manchester. Surely a reduction should apply to flights from Manchester?

 

Distance from London to Bridgetown

Distance is 6782 kilometers or 4215 miles or 3662 nautical miles.

 

Distance from Manchester to Bridgetown

Distance is 6712 kilometers or 4171 miles or 3624 nautical miles.

 

I can understand this if fares are based on flying distance e.g. Manchester to the Mediterranean is further than London to the Med..hence a supplement to fly to Med based fly cruises. But the reverse should be true if flying distance is less.

[the english lady]

All of the auto grats go to the people who serve you. No one else. By deducting money from the auto grats you are just taking it from the staff, not from pando.

[P&O SUE]

Thanks for your report.

 

Bit worrying all this talk in decline in food standards :( We've never had the "chocoholics" buffet but there was a sort of minor version last June on Azura in the buffet. Just normal afternoon fare but with more chocolately things!

[ChrisPBacon]

All of the auto grats go to the people who serve you. No one else. By deducting money from the auto grats you are just taking it from the staff, not from pando.

 

 

 

I'm not suggesting I'm taking it from P&O. You are missing my point. It's for P&O to properly remunerate their staff. Then if the customer feels they deserve more, then they can add to that. If they had increased it say....5-10%, I may have payed it. But the actual increase, since my last cruise, just 5 months ago, is 42%. That's an unacceptable increase as far as I am concerned, especially since the service has got slower.

 

I also notice that in their latest brochure, they haven't named the amount they will add....leaving the door open for further increases.

 

Answer me this question then. You seem happy with a 42% increase in auto tips, and think the staff deserve it. Tell me when you last cruised and then tell me how much you ADDED to the auto tips, which presumably you didn't think we're high enough? And I don't mean cabin steward tips. I gave him a very healthy tip.

[peteukmcr]

But the actual increase, since my last cruise, just 5 months ago, is 42%. That's an unacceptable increase as far as I am concerned, especially since the service has got slower.

IMHO the £5 pppd is a bargain compared to the latest rise coming into force with RCI.

 

For all cabins up to suites, the daily service charge will be $13.50 pppd which at current exchange rates works out at round £9.50 pppd.

 

I can also report that there has obviously been reduction in staff on RCI too which then translates into a reduction of service.

 

So P&O is a bargain in comparison but I'm sure they are looking at other cruise lines as RCI is not the only line rising the daily charge. :D

[ChrisPBacon]

I wouldn't pay that. Scandalous! But it's not even about the amount. It's about the percentage increase.

 

 

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[peteukmcr]

This doesn't sit well with me either. I posted the paragraph below about two years ago when Manchester supplements were announced

 

Manchester is the airport we always fly from when travelling to the Caribbean with P and O.

I have been to a site which gives the distance between cities. When checking London/Manchester to Barbados it is actually a shorter distance from Manchester. Surely a reduction should apply to flights from Manchester?

 

Distance from London to Bridgetown

Distance is 6782 kilometers or 4215 miles or 3662 nautical miles.

 

Distance from Manchester to Bridgetown

Distance is 6712 kilometers or 4171 miles or 3624 nautical miles.

 

I can understand this if fares are based on flying distance e.g. Manchester to the Mediterranean is further than London to the Med..hence a supplement to fly to Med based fly cruises. But the reverse should be true if flying distance is less.

Unfortunately that's not how the airlines calculate the fares. There are many elements to an airline fare, Base fare, UK Airline Passenger Tax (mandatory from the UK government), UK Airport taxes, Oversees Airport taxes, Fuel Supplements etc. So depending on where you fly from the fare can and is often different. As taxes are priced in US $, they can fluctuate due to the exchange rate.

 

If the flights you are travelling on are specific charters for P&O, the airline will have negotiated a fare with P&O and from regional airports where supply is lower (less aircraft based in the regions) and demand is higher, the airline will and do charge a premium.

[kevg1889]

We had a fantastic time - loved every minute

[the english lady]

I wouldn't pay that. Scandalous! But it's not even about the amount. It's about the percentage increase.

 

 

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So having found out how much more you can pay on other lines ,compared to P and O , you are still not happy about this 30% increase, even though it takes you to less than half RCI.

If you are not happy to pay auto grats , with increases that may or may not happen there are lots of lines out there who do not charge ANY tips whatsoever in any form.

Some of them are 6* lines so their basic price looks a lot more, or Thomsons.

Thomsons do not have any brand new ships, they get them from elsewhere but they do not charge tips .

Most people I think would be happier if the tips were included in the fare, but that would put the base price up (look at some of the 6* lines).

Some people would then not book with them because some other line is cheaper.

Having said look at Thomsons if you go for one of the better cabins ,the price between those and P and O are not that different.

[ChrisPBacon]

It's not the amount, but the amount of the increase. I've always paid the auto grats and never changed them on my bill. I don't see any justification to increase them, based on the service you get? Again, that's not a reflection on those serving, but P&O's continued downsizing of the service. Two and a half hours some nights to get through dinner. Going for dinner at 6pm so you can catch an early show, and then missing the start of it. Only two barmen in the Playhouse theatre when it's full.

 

I wouldn't pay what they are asking on American lines. When I eat out at home, I always tip good service and tip generously. But I tip relative to what I've spent. The £130 (if I'd have left it all on) would represent almost a 30% tip on my bar and restaurant spend during the cruise. If you eat out at home, do you tip that much?

 

 

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[kruzseeka]

Unfortunately that's not how the airlines calculate the fares. There are many elements to an airline fare, Base fare, UK Airline Passenger Tax (mandatory from the UK government), UK Airport taxes, Oversees Airport taxes, Fuel Supplements etc. So depending on where you fly from the fare can and is often different. As taxes are priced in US $, they can fluctuate due to the exchange rate.

 

If the flights you are travelling on are specific charters for P&O, the airline will have negotiated a fare with P&O and from regional airports where supply is lower (less aircraft based in the regions) and demand is higher, the airline will and do charge a premium.

 

I wasn't aware of all the elements you describe re taxes etc but do think the cruiselines/charter airlines do capitalise on the popularity of particular airports and adjust prices according to historical supply and demand. Of course that is good business for them but passengers in some parts of the country lose out as a result.

 

You can search on some cruise lines for the same cruise departing from different airports and the price variation can be staggering - I once picked up a Caribbean cruise flying from our local airport for £300 p. p. less than Manchester or Birmingham - clearly not many seats left on those flights. Conversely, we've just booked a Caribbean trip on the Azura flying from our local airport - £100 each supplement but worth it to us for the convenience.

 

But I suspect the over-riding principle is that they charge more because they can. If people buy into it for whatever reason, they'd be missing a trick not to. Disappointing though if you're the one paying the premium.

Edited April 4, 2016 by kruzseeka

[ChrisPBacon]

Manchester is generally more expensive to fly from than Gatwick. Not sure if that's due to profiteering or that Manchester charge more? But £100 seems so rounded. Not £80 or £95........dead on a hundred. The Dreamliner can carry 242-335 passengers, depending on layout. If we assume 300, then at £50 each way, that's a supplement of £15000. If it's just a chance to scrape some money back, it's a nice earner for P&O.

 

 

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[Solent Richard]

All of the auto grats go to the people who serve you. No one else. By deducting money from the auto grats you are just taking it from the staff, not from pando.

 

Have to agree with you English Lady. It's one thing P&O, and indeed Cunard, are most fair about: the distribution of gratuities.

[Solent Richard]

Manchester is generally more expensive to fly from than Gatwick. Not sure if that's due to profiteering or that Manchester charge more? But £100 seems so rounded. Not £80 or £95........dead on a hundred. The Dreamliner can carry 242-335 passengers, depending on layout. If we assume 300, then at £50 each way, that's a supplement of £15000. If it's just a chance to scrape some money back, it's a nice earner for P&O.

 

 

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Is it a nice earner for P&O?

 

Or would that be the airline that they use from Manchester.

 

You mention the Dreamliner...would that be Thomson: a cruise rival of P&O.

[kruzseeka]

Is it a nice earner for P&O?

 

Or would that be the airline that they use from Manchester.

 

You mention the Dreamliner...would that be Thomson: a cruise rival of P&O.

 

 

We are flying Thomson - but not the Dreamliner. From Gatwick it would have been £100 p.p. less and that would have been a Dreamliner. So the difference relates to the airport - we pay more and for a less comfortable flight but the airline is the same therefore variation appears to me due to P&O pricing - or perhaps Bournemouth Airport is cheeky enough to charge a huge premium for use of its airport.

[ChrisPBacon]

Have to agree with you English Lady. It's one thing P&O, and indeed Cunard, are most fair about: the distribution of gratuities.

 

 

 

Mmm. Again....not quite what I'm arguing. This isn't about distribution of gratuities, but a 40% increase in them for a lower quality of service. Nobody seems to be arguing that the service is getting better? We all acknowledge that those doing the job work hard and do their best. But there isn't enough staff and yet a huge (in percentage terms) increase in tips? I'm also arguing, with no actual proof, that P&O will NOT have increased their pay, and then also upped the tips by 40%. It's more likely that P&O are using this big increase in tips to pay the staff more, rather than increase their pay. I just don't see any company increasing the tips by so much, and then saying...'oh, we've also increased your pay'.

 

Many people on my cruise were at the reception desk, amending the gratuities. I don't know why or by how much, but many people did.

[ChrisPBacon]

One more thing.....if you think £5 a day is not only reasonable, but totally justified for the ship's staff, when it was only £3.50, just a few months ago, did you ever increase the auto gratuities? Or have you just decided, on the strength of my post, that £5 is a correct amount?

 

 

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[ChrisPBacon]

We are flying Thomson - but not the Dreamliner. From Gatwick it would have been £100 p.p. less and that would have been a Dreamliner. So the difference relates to the airport - we pay more and for a less comfortable flight but the airline is the same therefore variation appears to me due to P&O pricing - or perhaps Bournemouth Airport is cheeky enough to charge a huge premium for use of its airport.

 

 

 

I presume it's the airport? P&O charter the plane, and pay an agreed cost for it. We now know that when you have to pay to choose your seats, that money does NOT go to Thomson, but P&O. It's P&O policy to charge you to choose your flight seat. So they are already offsetting the cost of the charter, by charging for that.

[daiB]

Mmm. Again....not quite what I'm arguing. This isn't about distribution of gratuities, but a 40% increase in them for a lower quality of service. Nobody seems to be arguing that the service is getting better? We all acknowledge that those doing the job work hard and do their best. But there isn't enough staff and yet a huge (in percentage terms) increase in tips? I'm also arguing, with no actual proof, that P&O will NOT have increased their pay, and then also upped the tips by 40%. It's more likely that P&O are using this big increase in tips to pay the staff more, rather than increase their pay. I just don't see any company increasing the tips by so much, and then saying...'oh, we've also increased your pay'.

 

Many people on my cruise were at the reception desk, amending the gratuities. I don't know why or by how much, but many people did.

 

 

What P&O did wrong was to leave the tips at £3.50 too long if you increase slowly then it is accepted more a than a large rise after 4/5 years.

 

 

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[ChrisPBacon]

What P&O did wrong was to leave the tips at £3.50 too long if you increase slowly then it is accepted more a than a large rise after 4/5 years.

 

 

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You may very well be right dai?

[peteukmcr]

Manchester is generally more expensive to fly from than Gatwick. Not sure if that's due to profiteering or that Manchester charge more? But £100 seems so rounded. Not £80 or £95........dead on a hundred. The Dreamliner can carry 242-335 passengers, depending on layout. If we assume 300, then at £50 each way, that's a supplement of £15000. If it's just a chance to scrape some money back, it's a nice earner for P&O.

 

 

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Invariably it is not the airport that charges more, but the airlines, especially charter operators as they set their fares from a London departure and so charge a supplement for all regional departures.

 

Is it a nice earner for P&O?

 

Or would that be the airline that they use from Manchester.

 

You mention the Dreamliner...would that be Thomson: a cruise rival of P&O.

It is normally the airline that imposes the supplements. In the case of Thomson, they also charge a supplement for flying on the Dreamliner despite the fact that there is no other option on that route provided by the airline to fly on another aircraft.

 

Also to be considered is the day of travel. Many airlines, not just Thomson will include in the fare a supplement for flying at the weekend. The days they consider the 'weekend' can vary. Some charge for flying Fri,Sat,Sun, some start their 'weekend' on a Thurs.

 

I cannot guarantee, but I suspect that P&O are only passing on the supplements from the airline.

[ChrisPBacon]

Invariably it is not the airport that charges more, but the airlines, especially charter operators as they set their fares from a London departure and so charge a supplement for all regional departures.

 

 

 

It is normally the airline that imposes the supplements. In the case of Thomson, they also charge a supplement for flying on the Dreamliner despite the fact that there is no other option on that route provided by the airline to fly on another aircraft.

 

 

 

Also to be considered is the day of travel. Many airlines, not just Thomson will include in the fare a supplement for flying at the weekend. The days they consider the 'weekend' can vary. Some charge for flying Fri,Sat,Sun, some start their 'weekend' on a Thurs.

 

 

 

I cannot guarantee, but I suspect that P&O are only passing on the supplements from the airline.

 

 

 

Possibly. I know that the charge for choosing seats is NOT charged by Thomson, but P&O. But not sure if they are just passing on a supplement that the airline charges.

[ChrisPBacon]

Is it a nice earner for P&O?

 

 

 

Or would that be the airline that they use from Manchester.

 

 

 

You mention the Dreamliner...would that be Thomson: a cruise rival of P&O.

 

 

 

I don't know, but I'm sure P&O have shopped around and Thomson are offering a deal that works for them both? From the point of view of Thomson, they must have the spare aircraft capacity to be able to run these flights? Cruise rivals or not, they can't afford to turn down these charter flights.

 

Thomson cruise prices seem to be holding up and they seem to be quite full, as does P&O....so maybe they don't see each other as natural rivals? Plus.....in this arrangement, Thomson ARE making money from cruises that P&O sell.

[peteukmcr]

Possibly. I know that the charge for choosing seats is NOT charged by Thomson, but P&O. But not sure if they are just passing on a supplement that the airline charges.

P&O will be passing on the seat reservation fee imposed by Thomson.