Question about PSVA act (AKA Jones act)

[Cuizer2]

2) Again, think ship, not cruise. Seattle to Seattle followed by Seattle to Vancouver followed by Vancouver to Hawaii. The ship is transporting you from Seattle to Vancouver without a stop in a distant foreign port. This is illegal under the PVSA.

 

You are asking so many questions you've got me confused. The above should read "The ship is transporting you from Seattle to Honolulu without a stop in a distant foreign port."

[Cuizer2]

Apologies to cruiser2 who posted while I was constructing this.

 

No problem, happens to me all the time. :)

[mollyeilis]

Having a day in between sailings on the same ship would be legal. Getting off one ship and getting straight on another ship, of the same line, would also be legal. Getting off one ship and getting straight on another ship of another line would be legal. The first becomes legal because of the break in accommodation for the one day. The second and third are legal because they involve different ships, each of which are providing legal cruises.

 

 

So it's when it's the SAME ship that it becomes problematic? (I'm not talking about missing ports etc; I'm thinking back to when Disney offered something that had to be taken away, etc, where you could not take two cruises in a row)

 

And the few hours break between disembarkation and embarkation doesn't count as a break in accommodation?

 

 

We're not THAT worried, but it may seem so. I guess we have some pretty active imaginations. We take precautions to make sure we don't miss the ship. We bring extra medicine ashore in case we get separated from the ship for a few days.

 

Bad things happen.

 

On our very first cruise, we had the ship plastered to the dock by a bad wind, and got delayed so we missed several flights. Then our Royal Caribbean transfer bus broke down in the airport and we missed the last flight of the night. Then Royal Caribbean handled it all!

 

There was a story on the Princess site that the road from Anchorage to Seward got blocked, and the people w/ non-ship transfers were SO glad they were in front of the official Princess buses.

 

It definitely seemed like you were *that* worried. :)

 

The airline stuff is easy. If you miss a flight, airlines will help you. DH once got mixed up (as did I, as did his corporate TA) and was 24 hours late for a flight in South America. One such flight out per day. No problems, they changed it around to a different flight to a different location then beyond. No extra charges. (all while the Seattle-based TA was sleeping)

 

I don't want to miss a flight, but I don't *worry* about it. :)

 

It's the cruiselines that are hard. :)

 

 

If I were going a significant distance from the ship on an excursion, I'd go with ship-based.

[chengkp75]

So it's when it's the SAME ship that it becomes problematic? (I'm not talking about missing ports etc; I'm thinking back to when Disney offered something that had to be taken away, etc, where you could not take two cruises in a row)

 

And the few hours break between disembarkation and embarkation doesn't count as a break in accommodation?

 

That's correct. If the two cruises on the same ship makes up an illegal cruise, then it isn't allowed. If you can change ships it would be okay.

 

No, it would require a different date of disembarkation and embarkation to count as a break.

[knittinggirl]

 

 

If I were going a significant distance from the ship on an excursion, I'd go with ship-based.

We almost always go on ship tours. We had some people at the next table in the MDR that did a "on your own" trip in St Lucia. Thought they were crazy. St. Lucia is one of the places mentioned by the ship chasing lawyer. Still they took money, card & passport just in case they had to meet the ship on the next port.

 

We don't have enough experience traveling. So, we take ship tours. We had a five hour tour in Jamaica that turned into nine hours due to traffic jam. Fortunately, we'd booked through the ship, and they waited for us. They pulled up the gang plank behind us.

 

If we take ship tours, the ship needs to make it right. But they do warn us from time to time to stay w/ the group.

Edited April 6, 2016 by knittinggirl

[LeeW]

The people that have problems with PVSA tend to be on things like roundtrip cruises out of Seattle to Alaska. If you miss that cruise you CAN get on in Canada (if the ship stops in Vancouver or Victoria) but CANNOT get on in an Alaskan port. Often the Canada stop is the last stop prior to return to Seattle, so these cruisers miss the whole trip unless they just want a one day cruise.

 

Of course the same is true for a one-way Vancouver to Alaska trip. Miss the departure and you cannot get on in another US port for the remainder of the trip.

[Pearlieq]

In regards to some of the scenarios brought up, DH and I once had to disembark a cruise in a US port before we'd reached a foreign port due to a family emergency and it was quite a production.

 

We left NYC and got word before we reached Boston that my mother was gravely ill. Not thinking it would be any issue to just leave the cruise, we packed up our belongings, told guest services to close our account, and walked off the ship when we docked.

 

Just as we were getting into a cab, we heard shouting behind us. A security officer was running full-bore toward us to get us to stop. We were escorted back onto the ship and questioned by the security officers. Once we convinced them we were adamant about leaving, they had to get a customs officer from the port to make a special trip up to the cruise ship to search our belongings and clear us to disembark.

 

Because we hadn't reached a foreign port, we were fined $300 each and were required to pay it before we left the ship. It was charged to on onboard account and we were finally given permission to leave.

 

Several months later we got a letter in the mail from Princess explaining a whole bunch of stuff in legalese about why we had been fined and then told that "for compassionate reasons" the cruise line was refunding the fine.

 

I've always been curious if people who miss the ship are subject to the same rigamarole and fines. I wonder what would have happened if we'd just left without telling anyone?

[chengkp75]

The ship would have noted you as not onboard at sailing, would have changed to passenger manifest, and CBP would have fined them, and they would have taken the money from your onboard account, which you would not have closed out prior to leaving. Remember, it is the company that is fined by CBP, but it is only the ticket contract that gives them the right to pass the fine to you.

[Havin'fun]

Wow! This thread has my head spinning.

I have a question which just requires a simple yes or no. Since I have this booked and no word from Royal - I am thinking we are ok. We board Enchantment in Miami going to Coco Cay, Nassau and Key West. The day we disembark we then embark on Navigator in Miami going to Labadee, Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao. I have never been put in handcuffs and led away and have no desire to start 2017 that way :eek:

Thanks!

[Clarea]

Wow! This thread has my head spinning.

I have a question which just requires a simple yes or no. Since I have this booked and no word from Royal - I am thinking we are ok. We board Enchantment in Miami going to Coco Cay' date=' Nassau and Key West. The day we disembark we then embark on Navigator in Miami going to Labadee, Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao. I have never been put in handcuffs and led away and have no desire to start 2017 that way :eek:

Thanks![/quote']

You're taking two different cruises, both of which start and end in the same US port and visit a foreign country. No problem.

[chengkp75]

Wow! This thread has my head spinning.

I have a question which just requires a simple yes or no. Since I have this booked and no word from Royal - I am thinking we are ok. We board Enchantment in Miami going to Coco Cay' date=' Nassau and Key West. The day we disembark we then embark on Navigator in Miami going to Labadee, Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao. I have never been put in handcuffs and led away and have no desire to start 2017 that way :eek:

Thanks![/quote']

 

What you are doing is a "side by side", not a back to back. Since this is two separate ships no matter where you go, you are fine.

[Havin'fun]

You're taking two different cruises, both of which start and end in the same US port and visit a foreign country. No problem.

 

What you are doing is a "side by side", not a back to back. Since this is two separate ships no matter where you go, you are fine.

 

Thanks for the speedy answers!

[knittinggirl]

 

 

 

What you should worry about is, what if the US invades Australia while you are on the ship and Australia becomes a US territory? Then you would be violating so many rules, you would probably spend the next twenty years in jail (plus the ship would be fined $300).

Let's hope Obama pardons me!

[Merion_Mom]

Thanks for the speedy answers!

 

And even if you were doing this as a B2B, it does not violate any law because it is CLOSED LOOP to and from the same US city. Roundtrip Miami.

[Cuizer2]

Wow! This thread has my head spinning.

I have a question which just requires a simple yes or no. Since I have this booked and no word from Royal - I am thinking we are ok. We board Enchantment in Miami going to Coco Cay' date=' Nassau and Key West. The day we disembark we then embark on Navigator in Miami going to Labadee, Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao. I have never been put in handcuffs and led away and have no desire to start 2017 that way :eek:

Thanks![/quote']

 

If you depart and return to the same port, then all you have to do is visit a foreign port. The fact that you changed ships only means you have a new starting port, which in this case is the same starting port. If you are going to visit Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao, then you have just visited the three closest distant ports, so after visiting any one of those ports, the Navigator could then return to any US port without a problem (assuming the port is deeper than the Navigator's draft). You could even visit Baker, California if you wanted to find out what the temperature is. Baker, California has the world's biggest thermometer. It is next to Bob's Big Boy, so you could have lunch while the Navigator's navigator tries to explain to the captain how they ended up in Baker, California instead of Miami, Florida.

 

PS - No, the Conch Republic does not count as a foreign port.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Cuizer2

[knittinggirl]

If you depart and return to the same port, then all you have to do is visit a foreign port. The fact that you changed ships only means you have a new starting port, which in this case is the same starting port. If you are going to visit Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao, then you have just visited the three closest distant ports, so after visiting any one of those ports, the Navigator could then return to any US port without a problem (assuming the port is deeper than the Navigator's draft). You could even visit Baker, California if you wanted to find out what the temperature is. Baker, California has the world's biggest thermometer. It is next to Bob's Big Boy, so you could have lunch while the Navigator's navigator tries to explain to the captain how they ended up in Baker, California instead of Miami, Florida.

 

PS - No, the Conch Republic does not count as a foreign port.

How did they come up with the ABC island as a distant foreign port? Are they actually part of the South American Tectonic Plate? Are they the three islands closest to South America at that Latitude?

 

I bet they're happy, because look at all the port fees thanks to the PVSA.

Edited April 7, 2016 by knittinggirl

[Clarea]

How did they come up with the ABC island as a distant foreign port? Are they actually part of the South American Tectonic Plate? Are they the three islands closest to South America at that Latitude?

 

I bet they're happy, because look at all the port fees thanks to the PVSA.

Those islands are very close to South America.

[Merion_Mom]

How did they come up with the ABC island as a distant foreign port? Are they actually part of the South American Tectonic Plate? Are they the three islands closest to South America at that Latitude?

 

I bet they're happy, because look at all the port fees thanks to the PVSA.

 

Those islands are very close to South America.

 

They are barely offshore the coast of South America. As our guide said, on a clear day, you can see Venezuela.

 

:)

[Merion_Mom]

Ok, that didn't work. You'll have to find your own map. ;)

Edited April 7, 2016 by Merion_Mom

[knittinggirl]

They are barely offshore the coast of South America. As our guide said, on a clear day, you can see Venezuela.

 

:)

In Aruba, our guide told us that they were 11 miles from the equator and 17 miles from Venezuela.

[robtulipe]

How did they come up with the ABC island as a distant foreign port? Are they actually part of the South American Tectonic Plate? Are they the three islands closest to South America at that Latitude?

 

I bet they're happy, because look at all the port fees thanks to the PVSA.

 

In Aruba, our guide told us that they were 11 miles from the equator and 17 miles from Venezuela.

 

Yes, geographically they are part of SA as these islands lie the SA continental shelf or as you stated are on its Tectonic plate. So are Trinidad and Tobago but these are in the wrong direction to be used as useful distant foreign ports for the PVSA especially for a Panama Canal cruise.

The equator passes through Ecuador, Brazil and the southern part of Columbia and is about 250 miles south of the ABC islands. It is the line shown on the SA Tectonic Plate map below.

 

Edited April 7, 2016 by robtulipe

[robtulipe]

PS, Trinidad, at about 7 miles away, is closer to SA.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

who's on first?

:confused::confused::confused:

 

Bill

[knittinggirl]

I'm drafting a letter to my congressman like someone in this thread suggested.

 

Just to get my facts straight, I'm trying come up w/ arguments to repeal the law.

 

In the case of a medical emergency, does the ship head to the nearest port, or do they have to go to nearest non-US port to comply w/ the PVSA. Personally, I'd rather be dropped off on an island that's a US territory for medical needs.

[knittinggirl]

Yes, geographically they are part of SA as these islands lie the SA continental shelf or as you stated are on its Tectonic plate. So are Trinidad and Tobago but these are in the wrong direction to be used as useful distant foreign ports for the PVSA especially for a Panama Canal cruise.

The equator passes through Ecuador, Brazil and the southern part of Columbia and is about 250 miles south of the ABC islands. It is the line shown on the SA Tectonic Plate map below.

 

Very interesting!

 

Did we even know of tectonic plates in 1886?