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Possible missing passenger - Liberty

redstapler7

By redstapler7,
in Carnival Cruise Lines

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CdrescherRBL152

CdrescherRBL152

Posted
Posted
But the drinking age in Panama is 18. On Carnival it is 21.

 

And to be flagged US the ships must have been built in the US. The 'convenience' part is just an added benefit as I doubt they would choose to do so even if they could.

 

 

To be flagged In the US all that is required is that the ship be registered (flagged) in the US as nothing to do with where the ship is built. 90+ % of cruise ships are flagged outside of the US to avoid millions per year in taxes.

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MOcruiserman

MOcruiserman

Posted
Posted

No one has mentioned the obvious.

 

That the only way to prevent someone from doing something dangerous like sitting on a railing (let's face it, we've all done something similar in our lives) is to increase the height of the railing.

 

But that would require ships to invest a considerable amount of money and, further, it would result in passenger complaints that their view was being interfered with. And still, a determined (or drunk) person could probably find a way to climb over even a high railing.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
But the drinking age in Panama is 18. On Carnival it is 21.

 

And to be flagged US the ships must have been built in the US. The 'convenience' part is just an added benefit as I doubt they would choose to do so even if they could.

 

Yes, but just like any business, they can set more stringent rules unless proscribed by law. The cruise lines do this for cruises starting in the US, because while in US waters the age is 21, and they don't want the hassle of changing age classification within hours of sailing.

 

As for being US flag, no, the ship does not need to be built in the US. In order to qualify for "coastwise" trade in the Jones Act or PVSA, the ship needs to be built in the US. I have sailed on many US flag ships that were built overseas, and have even seen a small (few hundred tons) Baltic type trading ship in Germany that was US flag, just to be able to bid on contracts to carry US government cargo between Germany and Scandinavia, and that ship was never in the US nor capable of getting there.

 

The flags of convenience provide lesser registration fees, lesser inspection fees, don't meet USCG safety or training requirements, don't meet US labor laws, don't need to meet US environmental laws outside US waters, don't meet even OSHA laws, and for the most part do not meet the ADA laws.

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Robotcake

Robotcake

Posted
Posted

Were there no witnesses? Was no one else in the video? Would it currently be public knowledge if this had the potential to be homicide and that could be part of the explanation for the lock down hours after the incident?

 

Curious, not trying to get anybody wound up.

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Jackie81

Jackie81

Posted
Posted

Been following this thread since Friday, how sad. It's a shame she's lost her life, and left her husband and children to always kind of wonder what exactly happened and what was she thinking. I know it was reported that she sat on a railing and fell backwards. SO much speculation on here that maybe she drank to much. Why was she alone? In the end, none of it makes a difference. She did something stupid and unfortunately lost her life for it. We've all done stupid things, hindsight is 20/20. There is a lot of stupid stuff I've done, and looking back I think about how much of a different outcome there could've been. So regardless if she was drunk, suicidal, or just not thinking... a life was lost. Young kids now don't have their mother and a man is widowed. There seems to be a lot of arguing on this thread about this law and that law. Truth is, it just doesn't matter at the end of the day. She's gone and bickering and go back and forth about "woulda coulda shoulda's" won't bring her back. My thoughts and prayers are with her family, I hope they can find some sort of peace in all of this.

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Steve Dore

Steve Dore

Posted
Posted

Not trying to be morbid here, but I'm curious and really don't know the answer, but how likely is it that a body would be found washed up somewhere from something like this in the open ocean? I'm from the Maryland/Delaware area and usually when people jump off the bridges and such in our waterways the body, while it may take a couple of weeks, the body always ends up found and usually within a short distance of the incident.

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redstapler7

redstapler7

Posted
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Posted

Well, we are now docked in Galveston and are waiting to disembark. Our sets of parents were able to watch the Liberty come into port on the news this morning...

I wasn't expecting this thread to create such conversation, but I think it's good to openly discuss such events.

 

Stay safe out there folks....

 

181 days till the next cruise. Hope this doesn't happen then. :)

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Dave994

Dave994

Posted
Posted
Well, we are now docked in Galveston and are waiting to disembark. Our sets of parents were able to watch the Liberty come into port on the news this morning...

 

I wasn't expecting this thread to create such conversation, but I think it's good to openly discuss such events.

 

 

 

Stay safe out there folks....

 

 

 

181 days till the next cruise. Hope this doesn't happen then. :)

 

 

Safe travels home. Hope you were able to enjoy the rest of your cruise.

 

And I hope your next one goes better as well. 105 days until my next cruise and I am counting the days for sure [emoji4]

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mmckm

mmckm

Posted
Posted
That may be why corporations like the cruise lines are incorporated in foreign countries, but registering ships in flags of convenience results in many, many other benefits than just taxes.

 

Its all about the dollar. They register in counties where they don't pay any tax or very little. The benefits mean nothing as a cost. To register a cruise ship in the US would run close to $100,000,000 in taxes, aprox 8% to 10% of the cost of the ship. Plus other taxes yearly and licences, assuming the ship is worth around a billion dollars. That is a large chunk of cash. Its all about the money.

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lylone

lylone

Posted
Posted (edited)
Been following this thread since Friday, how sad. It's a shame she's lost her life, and left her husband and children to always kind of wonder what exactly happened and what was she thinking. I know it was reported that she sat on a railing and fell backwards. SO much speculation on here that maybe she drank to much. Why was she alone? In the end, none of it makes a difference. She did something stupid and unfortunately lost her life for it. We've all done stupid things, hindsight is 20/20. There is a lot of stupid stuff I've done, and looking back I think about how much of a different outcome there could've been. So regardless if she was drunk, suicidal, or just not thinking... a life was lost. Young kids now don't have their mother and a man is widowed. There seems to be a lot of arguing on this thread about this law and that law. Truth is, it just doesn't matter at the end of the day. She's gone and bickering and go back and forth about "woulda coulda shoulda's" won't bring her back. My thoughts and prayers are with her family, I hope they can find some sort of peace in all of this.

 

I am with Jackie. Why was she alone? I know my girlfriends, sister and now husband would wonder where I was within 15 minutes. If I went to the restroom, get food, or whatever. If I didn't come back I would be searched for. Especially when drinking was involved. We would always go to the bathrooms in pairs for that reason.

 

And no one saw her fall? On such a large ship I would think someone saw something!

 

My heart and prayers do go out to the family. Hope they find some closure in this horrible accident.

Edited by lylone
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Roz Great Review Rare

Roz

Posted
Posted

Why was she alone? I cruise a lot as a solo, so unless my steward reported me as not having taken a shower or slept in my bed, who would know until debarkation day?

 

Even when I cruise with my sister, she sometimes stays out late in the casino, or gets up if she can't sleep and heads to the Lido with a book so she won't bother me. I wouldn't know she was gone or never came in until the next morning.

 

The fact that the lady was by herself doesn't seem strange to me at all.

 

Roz

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knittinggirl

knittinggirl

Posted
Posted (edited)
The Cruise Vessel Safety & Security Act (CVSSA) only requires ships built after 2010 to meet the requirements for man overboard monitoring, and the Liberty was built in 2005.

 

Secondly, the USCG has promulgated rules to enforce the act, and have given the cruise lines the choice of using one of three methods:

 

1. Video or thermal image capturing, which is what most ships already have in that there is a camera looking down each side of the ship, and the images are recorded and kept for the required retention period. Each image is time stamped, so review can pinpoint the time of an incident.

 

2. Automated alert systems using cameras, thermal, and radar systems to detect a man overboard incident and sound an alarm

 

3. A combination of the two above.

 

CLIA, the cruise industry trade association, has stated that most lines will opt for the video image capture system.

Why don't they install man overboard systems during dry dock visits?

 

. . .

 

Maybe in the future everyone will get bracelets with RFID chips in them; like what you wear to go into a day resort, etc. The RFID chip would know if someone went "out of bounds" while at sea and trigger an immediate alarm. Just a though.

 

 

 

 

I'd hoped that the Royal Caribbean Quantum Class system bracelets had the man overboard system to determine exactly when they go overboard and sound an alarm. Or their Virtual Balconies would have some Man Overboard systems involved, so everyone in one of those rooms could be a potential spotter in the case of Man Overboard. Even the seapass cards would be good for man overboard. If they can install chips on credit cards, why not seapass cards.

 

With only 5% survival rescue rate, I'm afraid the cruise ships don't think updating their systems for Man Overboard is not very cost effective, but I doubt the four children of that woman would agree.

 

 

 

 

I always look for Chengkp75 and LMaxwell for their accurate information they provide. I've learned so much from them!

Edited by knittinggirl
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firemanbobswife

firemanbobswife

Posted
Posted
Why was she alone? I cruise a lot as a solo, so unless my steward reported me as not having taken a shower or slept in my bed, who would know until debarkation day?

 

 

 

Even when I cruise with my sister, she sometimes stays out late in the casino, or gets up if she can't sleep and heads to the Lido with a book so she won't bother me. I wouldn't know she was gone or never came in until the next morning.

 

 

 

The fact that the lady was by herself doesn't seem strange to me at all.

 

 

 

Roz

 

 

I cruise frequently by myself as well. Even when I don't, I typically get a cabin by myself and sometimes go to bed early and don't see my cruise mates until some time the next morning. We would have no idea if the other was missing. Deck 10 is pretty much a ghost town as soon as the movie on deck ends. It's not suspicious at all that if she did sit up there that she was alone and no one saw her fall.

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elliair

elliair

Posted
Posted (edited)
Not trying to be morbid here, but I'm curious and really don't know the answer, but how likely is it that a body would be found washed up somewhere from something like this in the open ocean? I'm from the Maryland/Delaware area and usually when people jump off the bridges and such in our waterways the body, while it may take a couple of weeks, the body always ends up found and usually within a short distance of the incident.

 

That's difficult to answer. Sharks may have already taken care of her and what's left other fish and sea creatures will consume the rest of the body. Right feet of people only wearing a sneaker has been found washed up on the California/Oregon coast. A mystery, did they fall off a ship? A man went missing in a lake near us and his body has never been found - that was about 2 months ago. They never did find the two teenage boys who went missing in their boat off the coast of Florida. Only the cell phone was found. It's a huge ocean and the probabilities of finding her are slim. JMHO

Edited by elliair
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Briitini

Briitini

Posted
Posted

I read on cruise law that the carnival PR said she was sitting on the railing backwards. Confirmed I guess if it came from PR? Also, if she wasn't alone someone would have watched her fall off and would have reported it?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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