Fast WiFi promised in July - Lies?

[fshagan]

Savvy technology users understood the nature & limitations of satellite broadband at sea; and, I don't expect nor mistakenly believe that it can match 200GB business class speed at the office or 100GB quantum Fios speed at home. As end users, the "burden" is on NCL to offer a reasonable & competitve product that they choose to promote, advertise, promise and not delivering on a timely basis - comes down to being in good faith, trust & honest communications (and, we all each know how we rate NCLH on its track records lately) - in taking responsibility for missing the timeline that they choose to offer/promise.

 

If I am a stockholder, I would question management or corporate to explain this implementation, aside from standing by them ... granted that, maybe 90% of the passengers couldn't care less and many don't use it, paid or otherwise, getting it for "free"

 

One of our nieces sailed on the Anthem of the Seas earlier this Spring with a group of friends, with the Voom package, one with the surf option to live stream & the lower priced without it, worked very well - 40% to 50% less than NCL's, and for extra charge, option for using more than one device at a time. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/01/travel/cruise-ships-with-the-best-wi-fi/index.html

 

If the vendor is responsible, incompetent and/or failed to deliver the product promised, then, to borrow the phrase - "you are fired" instead of continuing to allow misleading information to distort the facts, not acceptable ... no laws broken, of course. :D

 

I have also heard the RCL implementation is faster than the one Celebrity implemented, or that NCL is implementing. Don't know the tech details as to why, although from looking at NCL's implementation all it is is a fancy CDN caching some sites (kind of like how the Opera browser did caching for mobile devices early on).

 

This is pure speculation but I suspect that NCL saw a soft quarter and delayed or cancelled any non-essential expenditures, including the internet project. That's the right thing to do, by the way.

 

I wouldn't expect them to tell us, of course, but it might show up that way in an earnings call or quarterly report, in some phrase like "anticipating softness in our core market due to terrorism and Zika virus concerns, we pro-actively delayed unnecessary expenditures like the multi-million internet upgrade project".

[easyboy]

People are never going to be happy with wi-fi speeds on a cruise ship. They can change all of the hardware that they want but the limiting factor is the amount of bandwidth they have to the satellite, and until the engineers can figure out how to increase band width it is always going to be much slower than anything you get on land. Too many people trying to put too much data through the pipe is the simple explanation.

 

I don't think NCL lied, I just think that on the big ships the final result was not a good as they hoped.

like a funnel.

[SMSACE6]

Espeically if you do it off peak, the answer is probably yes, you will be fine.

 

That said, net service is subject to satellite access, weather, and most importantly your fellow passengers. 2 people streaming HD youtube to an iPad can kill bandwith on a standard system for 1/2 the ship (yes, really).

 

Add in the capacity to find wifi in ports and I wouldn't have concerns.

 

ok, so would 0600 to 0900 be considered off peak? or say 2100 to midnight? or what would you consider off peak to be? thanks for your input. This is the one and only concern I have with booking NCL.

[mking8288]

Can anyone give me a rough idea of how well the wifi will work for my needs? ... because I absolutely have to send and receive at least one daily email to elderly parents at home.

Understood, in-laws & mom in frail health with health issues - we managed to travel over the years, delegated the proxies but still had contingencies. Just piggyback on Loonbeam - for basic daily email or checking SMS over WiFi, you shouldn't worry as hopefully, in a year's time, the "systems" would get better as a whole.

 

Use your iPad or tablet, iPhone or Android/Nexus smartphone with a mobile browser like Chrome or alike, that cache & compress data - turnoff background refresh/downloads & alike, AdBlocker to limit data - and disable iCloud & Dropbox links etc. Compose off-line, upload, retrieve & read off-line and turnoff attachments.

 

A dual-band WiFi device that can surf on the less congested 5 GHz band would also be a plus for that extra advantage.

 

I have also heard the RCL implementation is faster than the one Celebrity implemented, or that NCL is implementing ... a fancy CDN caching some sites (kind of like how the Opera browser did caching for mobile devices early on) ...

Well, it's unconfirmed to be on the Escape, at least - currently - so maybe it will gradually rollout, compression & caching has been around for years. If RCI, CCL and X can do it, I find it difficult to believe that NCL are leaving themselves behind ... well, maybe for budgetary reasons.

 

Back in May and on the Breakaway, I had no issues with ship's WiFi free inTRAnet and paid inTERnet, on Nexus 6X, iPad Mini or Sony Viao notebook ... aside from tweaking them to optimize in anticipation of a slower connection, upload speed peaking around 17 Mbps with 20 ms latency; and it was clearly not SpeedNet & still with MTN.

Edited August 14, 2016 by mking8288

[KeithJenner]

I've run speed test a few times over the past couple of days to give an idea of speeds.

 

Yesterday morning when most people were off the ship or getting ready to: 19.19 Mbps

 

When people were starting to get back on ship: 7.64 Mbps

 

A couple of hours after that (lots of people updating Facebook etc I assume): 7.89 Mbps

 

Now (morning before we go off ship): 24.43 Mbps

[davecttr]

I've run speed test a few times over the past couple of days to give an idea of speeds.

 

Yesterday morning when most people were off the ship or getting ready to: 19.19 Mbps

 

When people were starting to get back on ship: 7.64 Mbps

 

A couple of hours after that (lots of people updating Facebook etc I assume): 7.89 Mbps

 

Now (morning before we go off ship): 24.43 Mbps

 

Reading elsewhere I see claims that royal Caribbean can get speeds of up to 500 Mbps :eek:

 

are NCL using the same satellite technology as RCI? where using several satellites in low earth orbit gives much better response times mostly because the satellites are simply a lot closer than geostationary orbit :confused::confused::confused:

[mking8288]

Reading elsewhere I see claims that royal Caribbean can get speeds of up to 500 Mbps :eek:

 

are NCL using the same satellite technology as RCI? where using several satellites in low earth orbit gives much better response times mostly because the satellites are simply a lot closer than geostationary orbit :confused::confused::confused:

Reasonable to assume, not following RCI's speed claims - but seen first hand on the landside while on FaceTime video that it was very good to excellent, comparable to cable internet & maybe not as seamless as Fios - that NCL might be paying for "lesser" speed.

 

There are still towns, villages & cities now getting - still - analog DSL technologies of 3 to 5, 7 MB speed and happy with it. Many land-based hotel offering "standard" WiFi of 1 to 3 MB speed, functional & working, sluggish & not good for video streaming at 1080p (not that anyone should expect even 720p onboard with a maritime connection at "reasonable" costs). Just checkout Hughesnet speed for what what's offered to its land subscribers.

 

It would be fair to discuss, compare & benchmark the current speed on different NCL ships as we continue to look at the rollout of the technologies, with some real numbers & measurements ... use Speedtest, Open Signal or Signal Spy or your own. Keep in mind the # of users signed on and surfing the net do and will continue to affect the connections - blocking and/or restricting the bandwidth needed for video streaming would constitute fair usage. Of course, providers like T-Mobile has the technologies deployed & in use to redirect & meter streaming for music, video, including Youtube for use while others continue to enjoy email, web surfing and basic functionality.

[marynjohn]

Understood, in-laws & mom in frail health with health issues - we managed to travel over the years, delegated the proxies but still had contingencies. Just piggyback on Loonbeam - for basic daily email or checking SMS over WiFi, you shouldn't worry as hopefully, in a year's time, the "systems" would get better as a whole.

 

Use your iPad or tablet, iPhone or Android/Nexus smartphone with a mobile browser like Chrome or alike, that cache & compress data - turnoff background refresh/downloads & alike, AdBlocker to limit data - and disable iCloud & Dropbox links etc. Compose off-line, upload, retrieve & read off-line and turnoff attachments.

 

A dual-band WiFi device that can surf on the less congested 5 GHz band would also be a plus for that extra advantage.

 

 

Well, it's unconfirmed to be on the Escape, at least - currently - so maybe it will gradually rollout, compression & caching has been around for years. If RCI, CCL and X can do it, I find it difficult to believe that NCL are leaving themselves behind ... well, maybe for budgetary reasons.

 

Back in May and on the Breakaway, I had no issues with ship's WiFi free inTRAnet and paid inTERnet, on Nexus 6X, iPad Mini or Sony Viao notebook ... aside from tweaking them to optimize in anticipation of a slower connection, upload speed peaking around 17 Mbps with 20 ms latency; and it was clearly not SpeedNet & still with MTN.

Hmmm, how can you get 20msec latency when it takes 500 msec to get to satellite and another 500sec back down? (Speed of light)

Have to think about that one.

 

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

[Loonbeam]

RCCL bought up all of the bandwith from a specific class of new satellites. Right now, until more are put up, there's none of that capacity available for other lines (unconfirmed is that RCCL corporate has a stake in the provider)

 

I have also heard the RCL implementation is faster than the one Celebrity implemented, or that NCL is implementing. Don't know the tech details as to why, although from looking at NCL's implementation all it is is a fancy CDN caching some sites (kind of like how the Opera browser did caching for mobile devices early on).

 

This is pure speculation but I suspect that NCL saw a soft quarter and delayed or cancelled any non-essential expenditures, including the internet project. That's the right thing to do, by the way.

 

I wouldn't expect them to tell us, of course, but it might show up that way in an earnings call or quarterly report, in some phrase like "anticipating softness in our core market due to terrorism and Zika virus concerns, we pro-actively delayed unnecessary expenditures like the multi-million internet upgrade project".

[Loonbeam]

Best times are when people are off ship and crew is busy, usually 1-2 hours after arriving in a port. Having the ship stationary helps a little as well in terms of reduced latency.

 

Secondary times seem to be peak dining times, same reason.

 

 

There are NEVER any guarantees, because performance is affected by what your fellow passengers do on the network.

 

ok, so would 0600 to 0900 be considered off peak? or say 2100 to midnight? or what would you consider off peak to be? thanks for your input. This is the one and only concern I have with booking NCL.

[mking8288]

Hmmm, how can you get 20msec latency when it takes 500 msec to get to satellite and another 500sec back down? (Speed of light) Have to think about that one.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

It's a good and valid question, and I don't have the answer for you. That's the screenshot from Open Signal App, cellular is OFF (not connected to Bermuda's Digicel cellular network, speed was 3G with them) - only WiFi enabled & connected to Breakaway's network.

This is from SignalCheck Lite - connected via 5GHz WiFi band, speed was very good

Fi Network in Bermuda via DigiCel was "slow" compared to ship's WiFi @3G speed.

It's possible that the reading I obtained was just measuring ship's inTRAnet speed when connected with caching & compression, etc. and not truly measuring accurately.

 

Bottomline, it worked for me while on the BA using WiFi, and, on the islands, switched over to cellular & int'l data roaming.

Edited August 16, 2016 by mking8288

[AdoraBelle]

Hmmm, how can you get 20msec latency when it takes 500 msec to get to satellite and another 500sec back down? (Speed of light)

Have to think about that one.

 

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

 

 

Also seems telling that it couldn't even register a download speed.

 

Going to be interested to see if it constantly kills standard consumer VPN connections like the MtN system did on GA in June, and whether they will continue to block things like MMS and photo attachments in iMessage along with cloud sync like Dropbox.

[davecttr]

Apparently the Royal Caribbean system uses the Ob3 satellites with latencies of 125 Ms and throughputs of up to 1 Gbps. Also have they bought up all the spare capacity on those satellites so other cruise lines have to use slower technology?

[marynjohn]

That has to be local response time (Between your pc and the on-ship router. PS - don't try it too much or you'll have to buy another data package.

 

A big chunk of what they are calling a speed upgrade is actually what's called data compression. Instead of sending 20 space characters, they send a special code, then the number of times the character is repeated, then the actual character that's repeated. i.e. - instead of sending 20 space characters, they send 3 characters. (In laymens terms) Space IS the most repeated character, I think. They probably do it at the bit level.

They probably added transponders, too. Add another transponder and it's like having two connections. Big dollars, though. It isn't cheap to hurtle an object the size of a sattelite into geosynchronous orbit and maintain it.

 

 

I remember (Dating myself here, lol) Telex networks used 50 baud 5 bit Baudot. Unicase Letters and numbers that you had to switch between with a keystroke (Figs key). With a satellite link, we had to disable the timers or the software would think the links had timed out. That was in the 70's. Now, 7 bit ascii, and Terrabit cables it doesn't happen.

[fshagan]

EMC SpeedNet is the vendor, and they actually purchased the old vendor, MTN. Not sure the domes on the ship will change logos since MTN is (I think) the current NCL vendor.

 

Their land based solution is described this way:

 

The newest patented technology to heighten customers’ Quality of Experience (QOE) is SpeedNet, a solution focused on latency. Using a proprietary intelligent protocol and global backbone, SpeedNet predictively fetches, compresses and pushes multiple layers of websites at once to local servers. The net result for the end-user is a browsing experience that mimics high-speed fiber.

 

So it sounds like a caching system combined with a CDN. Unless that cache is stored on the ship itself I don't think you're going to approach "high speed fiber" speeds any time soon. But it does help with dial up and other slow land-based systems.

 

Links:

http://www.satellitetoday.com/telecom/2016/03/07/emc-speednet-to-fill-high-throughput-satellite-capacity-and-services/

 

http://emcconnected.com/digital-media/

[SMSACE6]

Best times are when people are off ship and crew is busy, usually 1-2 hours after arriving in a port. Having the ship stationary helps a little as well in terms of reduced latency.

 

Secondary times seem to be peak dining times, same reason.

 

 

There are NEVER any guarantees, because performance is affected by what your fellow passengers do on the network.

 

Thanks Loonbeam. I am not sure what some of the other posts mean, as I am not technically savvy lol. I am thinking, and hoping, that will try at times, and sometimes it will work, and sometimes not, and will just try again. Hopefully by next year this time, NCL will have improved their wifi.

 

I don't want to have to cancel for this reason, because I really want to cruise on this ship and NCL. But I will just be a nervous wreck without my once a day email that all is fine at home. So, I will monitor comments on wifi on this ship as well as others over the next 8 or 9 months till final payment comes up.

 

Your info is helpful to me though, and thanks again for putting in plain language that I can understand:)