Did we get hosed???

[Miata6]

Here's my tale: Air cruise package with Radisson Seven Seas (RSSC) with a Delta commuter flight from BWI (Baltimore) to JFK connecting with a non-stop with Olympic Air (OA) to Athens with supposedly about 2 hours between arrival at JFK and OA flight out.

Commuter flight 30 min late arriving at BWI and 30 more minutes late leaving. Change terminals at JFK (hassle) and arrive at the OA counter 25 minutes before scheduled take-off (5:40PM). Told that flight was 'closed', allegedly 1 hr before take off because it's an international flight. It didn't occur to me until later that they probably gave our seats to standbys (can you say 'bumped?). According to an OA employee, the flight left 'full'.

Delta put us up overnight in a shabby Ramada with crappy food and we started the process the next AM and finally flew to Athens a day late. I paid for two nights in Athens but only got one. RSSC says call the insurance company for that. It seems to me that OA is really the one responsible here. Note that when we did fly out the second day, they began loading the plane at 5:05PM, and that was, the day before, only 10 minutes before we arrived at the check-in. What are my rights here? Did we get hosed??

[wrp96]

I'm not sure of all the rules and regulations, but I think they did what they were supposed to by putting you up in a hotel overnight (no matter how shabby it was). In fact, if the missed flight was, technically, considered your fault (even though it wasn't), they may not have been obligated to put you up at all or even put you on another flight without you paying a change fee. But even if it was their fault, the airline isn't responsible for reimbursing you for the night you missed in Athens; that is what travel insurance is for. I think RSSC was right in telling you to contact your travel insurance company for reimbursement.

 

Sorry you missed a night in Athens.

[greatam]

Did you get hosed? NO I know you feel this way, but all vendors did what you paid them to do. Get you to Athens-hotel-cruise. The only thing you are really out monetarily is one night in Athens.

 

Could you have avoided the situation? YES

 

Too many people take the package deal. Sure, it is easier, BUT. When things don't work out, whose fault is it? Too many times, it is EVERYONE.

 

In your case, commuter flight was late, which started the whole chain of events. Delta put you up for the night, which is a real plus, as they did not have to do that. You missed a connecting flight, but not a DELTA connecting flight. Delta's obligation ended when they got you to JFK, unless somehow the OA flight was connected with Delta.

 

I would doubt that there were "standby's" on a charter. Now, it may have been oversold (real possibility), but certainly no standbys.

 

I would look to Radisson to reimburse for the night in Athens. They were the packager, they got the money. But I would definitely turn in the travel insurance claim.

 

In the future, book your own flights and hotels. You could still end up in the same situation (late flights), but at least you have some control. In your particular situation, I would have booked an early flight to JFK or taken the train. You would have had plenty of time for your international flight. Two hours at JFK, on two different airlines, different terminals, on an international flight, is just toooo tight for comfort. That was Radisson's fault.

 

Keep calling Radisson and file the insurance claim. Keep your chin up. You lost one night of your vacation, a bummer for sure. But in this day and age, you are blessed that you got there with your luggage, had a hotel waiting for you and had a nice cruise.

[rkacruiser]

I am also certain that your situation would qualify for a refund of some size under the terms of a travel policy's Trip Delay section.

 

In the future, even when a cruise line makes air arrangements, if connections are too tight between flights, you have the right to insist on a different flight schedule. It may cause you to incur custom air charges, but that certainly is better than having too tight of a connection and miss one's flight.

[Globaliser]

Change terminals at JFK (hassle) and arrive at the OA counter 25 minutes before scheduled take-off (5:40PM). Told that flight was 'closed', allegedly 1 hr before take off because it's an international flight. It didn't occur to me until later that they probably gave our seats to standbys (can you say 'bumped?). According to an OA employee, the flight left 'full'.

...

It seems to me that OA is really the one responsible here. Note that when we did fly out the second day, they began loading the plane at 5:05PM, and that was, the day before, only 10 minutes before we arrived at the check-in.

Had you already checked-in for your OA flight, with boarding passes issued? If not, then this was almost certainly correct. (It would have been correct even if your bags were through-tagged for automatic transfer to the OA flight, although you don't say either way.)

 

Check-in closure time is when you are officially too late to get onto the flight. 60 minutes is a very common cutoff time for international flights. If you haven't checked-in by then, the airline has no way of knowing whether you are going to make it or not - especially if you're connecting from another airline. So at check-in closure the airline is perfectly entitled to start filling the empty seats with other passengers who are there and ready to go. You were not bumped; you hadn't shown up by the latest time that you were required to, and consequently lost your reservation for the flight because you were late.

 

Check-in closure time is not the same as the time that boarding starts. Typically, there is a lot of work that needs to be done between check-in closure for an international flight and physical boarding of the aircraft.

 

So it sounds to me like OA did nothing wrong.

 

This risk of this happening is a risk inherent in all connections where you're connecting on to the last or only flight of the day. And even if there are further flights after the one you've missed, there's always a risk that you won't get on them if they're all full with people who have reservations for them. In either scenario, being put up for the night and reaccommodated as soon as possible is all that you could reasonably expect the airlines to do.

[Miata6]

Thank you all for your comments. My lesson, among others, is to avoid JFK in the future. I agree that RSSC may not have allowed enough time to connect at an airport like JFK (half of the delay was stack-up over Long Island), but Delta bears the majority of the blame. Delta did try to put us on someone else's flight to Europe but because of the way RSSC cut the tickets, they couldn't make the change. (Flight was 'free' under the RSSC package- I guess I got what I 'paid for'.) Final point: the meal on OA was very good, albeit a day late. :)

[greatam]

I am not particularly a fan of Delta, but they truly went beyond the call of duty by putting you up in a hotel room and giving you a food voucher. Your OA flight had NO connection to Delta.

 

OA flies a lot of charters out of NYC. Your tickets were probably booked like this:

 

Ticket 1-BWI/JFK-Delta RT

Ticket 2-JFK/Athens-OA-RT

 

Two totally different tickets on two airlines which have no business connections. That is one reason Delta could do nothing with your tickets. And RSSC probably got your OA tickets on a consolidator, bulk or charter fare basis.

 

Put the blame where the blame lies. Radisson, NOT Delta incompetence.

 

Another reason NOT to book cruise air.

[Globaliser]

I agree that RSSC may not have allowed enough time to connect at an airport like JFK (half of the delay was stack-up over Long Island), but Delta bears the majority of the blame. Delta did try to put us on someone else's flight to Europe but because of the way RSSC cut the tickets, they couldn't make the change.

As greatam says, if your tickets were split like that then DL can't be blamed. A 60-minute delay is not a major issue in itself, and you can't expect an airline to bend over backwards just for a relatively minor hiccup, the consequences of which they could not know because they had nothing to do with the second ticket. It also sounds like DL would have rerouted you, possibly at their expense, if you'd been on one through ticket, but that they were in fact powerless to help like that - so they did what they could in the circumstances. If you were travelling on split tickets, DL's technical responsibility had actually come to an end when they delivered you to JFK.

[Terp924]

Hello, new to Cruise Critic but I'm quite familiar with the industry. Just a quick tip here -- when cruise lines offer "Free Air" you can almost always request an air credit as an alternative, this credit is often more than enough to cover your own independent flight costs.

 

I've heard of multiple problems when air has been booked via "Free Air" promotions.

 

With that being said, it is easy to see how you are frustrated when booking a cruise line air package departing from BWI. As stated above, the cruise line is, in theory, responsible for getting you to and from your cruise. If you did not have the pre-hotel they would have flown you to the second port of call. Thus, this is technically a Trip Delay issue and should be covered by insurance. If you did not purchase travel insurance you still might ask your TA to see if there is anything he/she can do. While it may not be possible, if your TA would like to earn your future business he/she might be able to assist you.

[DiveCruiser]

I agree with greatam.

[ocngypz]

You will also have to check the fine print in your insurance policy. Many insurers will not pay unless there is at least a 4hr connection between flights

[DiveCruiser]

Sorry you missed a night in Athens.

WRP96

Where do you go for your count down time clock for you future cruises mine stopped working. Email me if you would.

divecruiser@verizon.net

Thanks

Bob