Prediction: Formal Nights gone by 2020

[rjrpar]

Just trying to understand all these dress code threads, seems like some people enjoy their dining experience more seeing some guy in a 10 year old sports coat than a $95 golf short. Let's quit pretending , formal night hasn't been formal for 15 years. The dress code is all over the map and the food quality is sinking.

 

 

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[Cauzneffct]

Possibly...then again...if it is properly communicated as "enforced" from a dress code perspective...

 

1) It has the potential to be restored as a nice traditional experience many cruisers enjoy

2) People could plan accordingly and perhaps simply packing somewhat

3) Royal could plan their meals to make it even more special

4) Those who wish to pass on it could schedule alternative locations

 

...just to name a few upsides...

 

I guess? I just don't see how, given that the number of people who "fully participate" now is dwindling, taking away the "incentive" of multiple uses of a nice outfit would result in an increase in participation.

 

People don't dress up now because A) they don't want to, and B) they don't have to. I don't know how many people from A would change their mind if enforcement was increased.

 

I have no problem with them enforcing a dress code. I just think that if they do so, and its only for one night, there aren't going to be a ton of people participating.

[Bootman4U]

Formal night has been essentially "gone" for a long time now even when there still IS a "formal" night. Tuxedos used to BE "the norm" and then it was a "dark suit" and the "rules" keep changing. In the meanwhile an entire cruise line did away with them altogther (Norwegian) and Celebrity now calls the whole thing "evening chic" and leaves it up to the passengers with even greater blurriness as to just what "chic" actually means.

 

And then there's the discrimination: people saying they don't like seeing hairy arms in tank tops at meals YET they have absolutely no problem with some female's flabby arms and their cellulite because it's well, "a woman."

[RocketMan275]

If formal night is so great, then why:

- pay people to dress up through special menus?

- force people to dress up through dress codes?

 

Face it folks, the majority of passengers don't wan't to dress up and formal nights are gone.

 

What other people choose to wear does not limit your choices so why spend so much time trying to convince them to do something only you want them to do?

Edited March 30, 2017 by RocketMan275

[MrsKC08]

If formal night is so great, then why:

- pay people to dress up through special menus?

- force people to dress up through dress codes?

 

Face it folks, the majority of passengers don't won't to dress up and formal nights are gone.

 

What other people choose to wear does not limit your choices so why spend so much time trying to convince them to do something only you want them to do?

 

You'd be surprised. I see many MANY people dressing up for formal night.

 

And this argument could go both ways...why make them stop it because YOU don't want to participate?

[LMaxwell]

Possibly...then again...if it is properly communicated as "enforced" from a dress code perspective...

 

1) It has the potential to be restored as a nice traditional experience many cruisers enjoy

2) People could plan accordingly and perhaps simply packing somewhat

3) Royal could plan their meals to make it even more special

4) Those who wish to pass on it could schedule alternative locations

 

...just to name a few upsides...

 

1. Yes, it has that potential, but it won't happen. Additional costs to restore the traditional experience. How will that generate more revenue? If you solve that, you are on to something.

 

2. Is that a change from now?

 

3. See number one.

 

4. Why do I have to choose between venues with no service, or paying additional money? MDR food and services included in my fare and daily service fees.

 

I'm telling you, this is all going in one way, and it's out of the MDR. Bookmark this and look it up in a few years.

[MrsKC08]

That's consumerist pablum. This is 100% the passengers' making. Like all service providers in a capitalist market, the cruise lines will do whatever passengers pay them the best for. As a public company, they're not allowed to deliberately sub-optimize. By contrast, passengers are completely free to behave in an irrational and self-defeating manner if they wish.

 

 

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The problem really is that we, as a society, are so afraid to offend someone and that is why no dress code is enforced these days. You know as well as I do that if they would stop someone from going into the MDR because of the way they dressed, people would start screaming something about discrimination or make a huge scene that the cruise line does not want to have! Because of someone being offended, and asked to change clothes or go to the buffet...they just started to turn their eye and eventually change their policies.

[RocketMan275]

You'd be surprised. I see many MANY people dressing up for formal night.

 

And this argument could go both ways...why make them stop it because YOU don't want to participate?

 

If "MANY" preferred wearing formal attire, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[MrsKC08]

If "MANY" preferred wearing formal attire, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

 

You do realize that there are many cruisers not even on cruise critic, right? This is just a small majority that are even talking about it....

 

On every cruise I've been on there are plenty of people who dress up for formal nights. Some in Sunday dress and some in formal wear!

 

 

Lynn & Ken

[RocketMan275]

The problem really is that we, as a society, are so afraid to offend someone and that is why no dress code is enforced these days. You know as well as I do that if they would stop someone from going into the MDR because of the way they dressed, people would start screaming something about discrimination or make a huge scene that the cruise line does not want to have! Because of someone being offended, and asked to change clothes or go to the buffet...they just started to turn their eye and eventually change their policies.

 

They wouldn't "turn their eye" if the informally dressed were a rarity. Once the informally dressed become sufficiently large, they "turn the eye".

[TominNC]

You do realize that there are many cruisers not even on cruise critic, right? This is just a small majority that are even talking about it....

 

On every cruise I've been on there are plenty of people who dress up for formal nights. Some in Sunday dress and some in formal wear!

 

 

Lynn & Ken

 

You say many, others disagree. Not sure what "many" even means.

 

On formal night what percentage of people in the MDR are:

Formal

Suit & tie

Sports jacket and pants

(neat, clean)shorts and golf shirts

look like they just came from the pool

[flag fan]

I can see them dropping it down to 1, and then to none, and I agree that they will do away with free lobster simultaneously. Once Royal realizes how much money that saves them, they'll be gone for good.

 

Now that cruises have become an "every-man's" vacation and not just a well-off-retired-person's vacation, they are starting to adapt to the new mainstream clientele. Most of the people who cruise are working people who really want to just relax and enjoy vacation and leave their work clothes at home, rather than cruising to socialize and have a reason to get dressed up again. There are always going to be people who still enjoy the dressing up, but they'll probably just start to push those people to specialty dining.

 

They're following the money, and there are more mainstream people who cruise now, and the people who've been around forever are getting a lot of free perks in the form of free drinks and discounted rooms. They've been-there-done-that and probably aren't spending as much on the same old things they've done a million times. And there simply just aren't enough of those people to make as much money on compared to the mainstream population. They make their money on the newbies, and the newbies don't want to spend 3 hours of their vacation time getting dressed up and sitting through dinner in uncomfortable clothing.

 

 

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I agree with everything in this post. The demographics of cruising have changed in the last 30 years along with the general trend to dress more casually everywhere (I shudder at what I see in church every week and "casual Friday" has turned into "casual summers" in my office).

 

 

As far as predictions, I agree that Royal Caribbean will end formal nights by 2020 (although some sort of pseudo "special night" term might be used, as in Norwegian). I think that by 2025 all the cruise lines will have dropped formal nights (with the possible exception of Cunard, whose main selling point in nostalgia). Once the luxury lines moved from formal to country club casual the handwriting was on the wall.

 

 

For me, I used to enjoy dressing up in full tuxedo, but I am now in the "been-there/done-that" mindset and I would just like the simplicity of dressing the same every night--nicely but casual and comfortable--without having to pack special clothes for 2 nights of the 7-day cruise.

[RocketMan275]

You do realize that there are many cruisers not even on cruise critic, right? This is just a small majority that are even talking about it....

 

On every cruise I've been on there are plenty of people who dress up for formal nights. Some in Sunday dress and some in formal wear!

 

 

Lynn & Ken

 

Certainly, I do realize that only about 2% of the cruising public are also members of cruise critic. I also realize that the members of cruise critic are likely to be more interested in cruising and tend to favor the traditions of cruising, ie, formal nights, etc.

 

There was a poll over on the celebrity board that asked whether passengers preferred the new Chic dress code or not. The results were:

 

58.5% thought Chic was a move forward.

28.5% hated the idea.

13.0 couldn't care less.

 

IOW, even on one of the more upscale and traditional cruise lines, the vast majority of cruise critic members who responded, less than 30% wanted to keep the formal dress requirements.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2278817&highlight=poll+dress+code

[LMaxwell]

You'd be surprised. I see many MANY people dressing up for formal night.

 

And this argument could go both ways...why make them stop it because YOU don't want to participate?

 

No one is asking anyone to stop. If they enjoy it, they should continue. But formal night will be events around the ship and be totally de-coupled from the MDR. MDR menus will not be 'special' that evening and service will be the same all nights.

 

You are fixated on dress code. The dress code has changed. This thread is NOT about dress code, per se, it is about removal of an event that exists in title only.

[RocketMan275]

No one is asking anyone to stop. If they enjoy it, they should continue. But formal night will be events around the ship and be totally de-coupled from the MDR. MDR menus will not be 'special' that evening and service will be the same all nights.

 

You are fixated on dress code. The dress code has changed. This thread is NOT about dress code, per se, it is about removal of an event that exists in title only.

I certainly hope that isn't the case. As things are now, one can easily avoid the issues associated with 'formal night'. However, if 'formal night' is distributed throughout the ship, how does one avoid 'formal nights'? I especially hope that the specialty dining does not become a substitute for formal nights and require formal wear. We prefer the special dining experience and certainly do not want to dress up to enjoy that experience.

 

Keep formal night in the MDR so the rest of us can enjoy the rest of the ship.

[42CruiseCrazy]

On those cruise lines that have a formal night dress code that differs from the other nights of the cruise, it usually applies to the specialty restaurants as well as the MDR.

 

 

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[LMaxwell]

On those cruise lines that have a formal night dress code that differs from the other nights of the cruise, it usually applies to the specialty restaurants as well as the MDR.

 

 

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That is not the case with RCI. Specialty is still smart casual

[LMaxwell]

I certainly hope that isn't the case. As things are now, one can easily avoid the issues associated with 'formal night'. However, if 'formal night' is distributed throughout the ship, how does one avoid 'formal nights'? I especially hope that the specialty dining does not become a substitute for formal nights and require formal wear. We prefer the special dining experience and certainly do not want to dress up to enjoy that experience.

 

Keep formal night in the MDR so the rest of us can enjoy the rest of the ship.

 

Events around the ship does not mean ship wide. For instance, on Princess they have the champagne toast in their Atrium. On NCL they have an area for meeting and getting photos with the Captain. These events do not close off the ship from anyone elses enjoyment, they are just added to the roster of available activities.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

1. Yes, it has that potential, but it won't happen. Additional costs to restore the traditional experience. How will that generate more revenue? If you solve that, you are on to something.

I find that statement totally unfounded by any facts to support it.

 

2. Is that a change from now? To some degree yes. It will make things more predictable in terms of passenger dining habits once they implement it for perhaps 90 days. As for raising more revenue....see #4 below.

3. See number one. Making 2 formal nights just one a formal night is already addressed from a cost perspective. In reality, having just one may reduce their costs.

4. Why do I have to choose between venues with no service, or paying additional money? MDR food and services included in my fare and daily service fees. That scenario is actually simplified by having just 1 formal night...less to think about, not more. As for revenue/costs...costs would remain pretty much the same and revenue could go up depending upon the adoption rate of attending as a "formal night"...more pay beverages (wine, etc.) likely sold if it's only once, for example.

I'm telling you, this is all going in one way, and it's out of the MDR. Bookmark this and look it up in a few years.

Respectfully disagree and will be willing to take that bet in terms of how it is being portrayed in your scenario.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

I guess? I just don't see how, given that the number of people who "fully participate" now is dwindling, taking away the "incentive" of multiple uses of a nice outfit would result in an increase in participation.

 

People don't dress up now because A) they don't want to, and B) they don't have to. I don't know how many people from A would change their mind if enforcement was increased.

 

I have no problem with them enforcing a dress code. I just think that if they do so, and its only for one night, there aren't going to be a ton of people participating.

You speak the truth in terms of the motivations, but the root cause is that it is not clearly documented, promoted, identified, and listed in cruise materials. It's tough to enforce anything that only some people know about.

[RocketMan275]

On those cruise lines that have a formal night dress code that differs from the other nights of the cruise, it usually applies to the specialty restaurants as well as the MDR.

 

 

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Not on Holland either.

[RocketMan275]

Events around the ship does not mean ship wide. For instance, on Princess they have the champagne toast in their Atrium. On NCL they have an area for meeting and getting photos with the Captain. These events do not close off the ship from anyone elses enjoyment, they are just added to the roster of available activities.

But, but, but, how can one possible fully enjoy these formal activities while gazing upon someone wearing shorts or, God Forbid, a baseball cap?

[RocketMan275]

You speak the truth in terms of the motivations, but the root cause is that it is not clearly documented, promoted, identified, and listed in cruise materials. It's tough to enforce anything that only some people know about.

 

It's even tougher to enforce something that only a few support.

[CruiseTobey]

It is English. No thesaurus necessary, just normal vocabulary developed in American school systems.

 

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My post was meant as a joke. But then again, I guess I'm just not as smart as you :rolleyes:. Have a nice day buddy.

[runawaysoul]

Do specialty restaurants have dress codes still? It's only once or twice a week. Adults can complain just as effectively as kids can! Too funny. It's a real shame that McDonalds folks are getting their way. I like dressing up.