What's up with single fares.

[ISABELLA]

Celebrity puts different booking codes for Single rate and Double.

I am booked on Eclipse - 11 days Caribbean cruise in 2C as Single at 200% price. Yesterday price got dropped for AQ. My new cost would be about $ 100 more that my cousin in Double, which they will have to pay more in port charges, which it will make my Single rate more by about $225.

I think this is some form of discrimination and I hope they checked with their legal team before they decided to charge more for single occupancy. Are they going to charge more $$ parents, if they have 2 children in a separate cabin?

[RDC1]

I wonder if this new phantom 2nd guest phenomenon will become the new booze smuggling debate on this board.

Hmmm?

 

 

If it becomes widespread then it will be interesting to see what the cruise line will do in response. After all they will have the history of each passenger and know if someone has a frequent second guest no show history.

[RDC1]

I think like everything to do with cruises, you have to shop and track prices. Single fares jump around as much as any other fares, so you monitor them and snag them when they go down. Just looking today using one of the popular cruise scanner websites, Just a quick look and I see good discounted rates for solo cabins on

3 sailings of the Summit

2 sailings of the Equinox

4 sailings of the Eclipse

1 sailing of the Constellation

1 sailing of the Millennium

1 sailing of the Solstice

Of course I wish it was easier to find solo rates, but I kind of enjoy doing my research and grabbing a good rate when I see it. It's like airline travel, it will always be up and down with no rhyme or reason, but I can either get annoyed by it, or try and find tools to help me grab the lower rates when I can.

 

Any particular time frame for the cruises with good discount fare (i.e. are they times when one would expect families to be traveling)

[RDC1]

Celebrity puts different booking codes for Single rate and Double.

I am booked on Eclipse - 11 days Caribbean cruise in 2C as Single at 200% price. Yesterday price got dropped for AQ. My new cost would be about $ 100 more that my cousin in Double, which they will have to pay more in port charges, which it will make my Single rate more by about $225.

I think this is some form of discrimination and I hope they checked with their legal team before they decided to charge more for single occupancy. Are they going to charge more $$ parents, if they have 2 children in a separate cabin?

 

No violation of discrimination laws.

 

Solo cruise line cruisers are not a protected class under discrimination laws. The cruise lines can charge whatever they want, as long as they do not charge protected classes (age, sex, race, etc) differently for the same occupancy category.

 

 

The financial numbers are very clear why solos get charged what they do. A solo booking in general costs the cruise line revenue compared to other occupancies. As such they are not desired, unless the other option is an empty cabin.

[katrina915]

I am in Finance, so I get the economics of the 200% even though I don't agree with it. However, more than 200% is short sighted. I can not only choose to cruise with a different line but I may not cruise at all. Have the financial wizard at the cruise lines figured out how much revenue they will lose if solos stop cruising and do land based vacations for the rest of their life? I have been looking at land based vacations and single supplement is NO where near 200%. The % of singles in the population is growing and maybe the cruise industry should stop punching us in the pocketbook.

[RDC1]

I am in Finance, so I get the economics of the 200% even though I don't agree with it. However, more than 200% is short sighted. I can not only choose to cruise with a different line but I may not cruise at all. Have the financial wizard at the cruise lines figured out how much revenue they will lose if solos stop cruising and do land based vacations for the rest of their life? I have been looking at land based vacations and single supplement is NO where near 200%. The % of singles in the population is growing and maybe the cruise industry should stop punching us in the pocketbook.

 

As long as they fill the cabins with two or more people they lose nothing, they gain.

 

Since you are in finance you should understand that the single supplement on land tours is less because they have a totally different expense structure.

 

On cruise ships most of their costs are fixed, they have a limited number of cabins, they need to maximize revenue per cabin.

 

On land tours most costs are variable. The limitation is the number of bus seats. Does not matter if they put two singles in two seats or a couple. The only real increase in costs is in hotel rooms where a single often costs the same as a couple. Meals are by person so no increased cost there. So with a land tour the company has to deal with higher per person hotel costs, and that is about it. So makes sense that land tour solo supplements are much much lower.

[katrina915]

As long as they fill the cabins with two or more people they lose nothing, they gain.

 

That's my point. What if long term they don't? And market share starts to decrease? Solos have options on other cruise lines PLUS many other options. What if people start asking me about cruising and I say only negative things and I impact their buying decision? What if I go on social media and slam them whenever I can? For $100-$400 per person add on top of 200%, is that really worth it to a company when they are already gouging me since I don't eat enough for one person?

[NLH Arizona]

I emailed my TA to ask the question, with regard to the 225% being charged on some cruises, since Celebrity hasn't responded to my questions. She spoke with Celebrity and they said they have never charged more than 200%. I just emailed my TA the Tuesday specials where he clearly states 225% on some cruises. I'll let you know what Celebrity says.

[ISABELLA]

If it becomes widespread then it will be interesting to see what the cruise line will do in response. After all they will have the history of each passenger and know if someone has a frequent second guest no show history.

I don't think Celebrity system will support history tracking.

[ISABELLA]

No violation of discrimination laws.

 

Solo cruise line cruisers are not a protected class under discrimination laws. The cruise lines can charge whatever they want, as long as they do not charge protected classes (age, sex, race, etc) differently for the same occupancy category.

 

 

The financial numbers are very clear why solos get charged what they do. A solo booking in general costs the cruise line revenue compared to other occupancies. As such they are not desired, unless the other option is an empty cabin.

Are they going to charge more $$ parents, if they have 2 children in a separate cabin?

[ISABELLA]

I emailed my TA to ask the question, with regard to the 225% being charged on some cruises, since Celebrity hasn't responded to my questions. She spoke with Celebrity and they said they have never charged more than 200%. I just emailed my TA the Tuesday specials where he clearly states 225% on some cruises. I'll let you know what Celebrity says.

I hope you get a respond - will be interesting to know their explanation. But, if I have to bet - it would not soon.

[NLH Arizona]

I hope you get a respond - will be interesting to know their explanation. But, if I have to bet - it would not soon.

TA got a second call saying they don't know anything about the 225% single supplement, she was sending them the Tuesday Specials.

 

I priced the July 7th Summit cruise and single rate was $3,249 and for two it was $2,938, which was over 200%, but less than 225%

[RDC1]

That's my point. What if long term they don't? And market share starts to decrease? Solos have options on other cruise lines PLUS many other options. What if people start asking me about cruising and I say only negative things and I impact their buying decision? What if I go on social media and slam them whenever I can? For $100-$400 per person add on top of 200%, is that really worth it to a company when they are already gouging me since I don't eat enough for one person?

 

When you consider that cruise lines profit margin is normally in the 5-6 range and though RCL did hit a very unusual number of 15.1 net profit percentage for 2016 due to the unusual combination of low fuel and interest costs combined with high demand. if they cannot fill their ships and have to depend upon solos then they have far far more serious problems. Especially when you consider that the difference in revenue (12.5%) between solo and couple fare even at 200% is greater than the cruise lines normal profit margin.

 

So yes the cruise lines to maintain its margins. A cruise line really does not want to be the go to place for singles, if it starts replacing 2, 3 and 4 person per cabin bookings.

 

As far as the cruise line is concerned food costs are a fixed item. They order based upon the cruise. A lot of the food is fresh and goes to waste if not used. By the time you get to the canned, dry goods, etc. you are down to a very small amount of the overall food costs.

 

To give you an idea of food costs. This is from RCLs latest annual filing with the FCC for 2016 for the complete corporation.

 

Total cruise expense $6,115,829,000

Food cost percentage 5.7%

Food cost in dollars 348,601,740

 

It looks like a big number at 348 million. However when you look at in terms of passengers per day

 

Number of passenger days 40,250,557

 

Food cost per passenger per day $8.66.

 

Bottom line the cruise industry is a high capital investment, low profit margin industry with a high percentage of fixed costs, in a competitive industry with limited pricing power. If they don't defend their margins and maximize revenue per cabin they do not survive!!!

Edited May 5, 2017 by RDC1

[RDC1]

Are they going to charge more $$ parents, if they have 2 children in a separate cabin?

 

No, they would be collecting the two person per cabin rate. From a revenue point of view they might prefer all 4 in one cabin. The numbers for 2016 indicated 106.4% as their average occupancy numbers when measured against 2 people per cabin. So that shows that they are already getting sufficient numbers of 3-4 people per cabin bookings.

[NLH Arizona]

Bottom line the cruise industry is a high capital investment, low profit margin industry with a high percentage of fixed costs, in a competitive industry with limited pricing power. If they don't defend their margins and maximize revenue per cabin they do not survive!!!

I think most understand this and are willing to pay a 200% single supplement, but with other cruise lines charging between 125% and 200%, how many customers would be will to pay more than 200%, possibly leaving the cruise lines to deep discount (which would be considerably less than a solo paying 200%) their berths to fill it up or sail with empty cabins.

[tabby50894]

Is 200% an industry standard, or should you be looking at other cruise lines? The cruise line does save money on food, even if it's not much, but there is some saving. Most fares now include a beverage package, and one person does not drink as much as two, another saving.

I wanted to go to the Galapagos and was shocked that Celebrity charged 200% for a single cabin, so I went with National Geographic/Lindblad that charged a single supplement but nothing close to 200%, and it was fantastic.

Single travelers should look for alternatives, and maybe Celebrity will hear you.

[Straughn]

No, they would be collecting the two person per cabin rate. From a revenue point of view they might prefer all 4 in one cabin. The numbers for 2016 indicated 106.4% as their average occupancy numbers when measured against 2 people per cabin. So that shows that they are already getting sufficient numbers of 3-4 people per cabin bookings.

 

Agree, that with passengers under the drinking and gambling age, having them in the cabin with their parents (lucky parents;p) would provide more per cabin/passenger revenue.

 

I have also traveled solo and with a traveling companion. With two exceptions, I have traveled in a suite. If I have to pay double, it is the cost of cruising the way I wish to cruise. I factor that into the cruise budget. I currently have a cruise booked for Feb. 2018, with my SO. His 99-year old father is in declining health. My SO wants to go on the cruise but has made it clear that if his father's health is very poor, he will not go. Obviously, if the gentleman passes after final payment, neither of us will go and the insurance will cover our costs. (They covered us three years go when the father broke a hip. A letter from the gentleman's physician was all it took to be reimbursed, as my SO is the primary care giver.) However, if it is a decision that has to be made before final payment, I would be very angry if ~X~ were to charge me 225% to cruise by myself. I have not booked a "phantom" cabin mate. The cruise was booked with the intention of both of us traveling.

 

My last comment on this is that I probably spend more $$ on board when the SO isn't with me as he does not gamble and hates spas. I lose money in the casino, I go to the spa, I take more ship sponsored tours. The amount of money a passenger spends should not be based on cabin category. I know folks who intentionally choose to sail in ocean view cabins so they have more money to spend on board.

[RDC1]

I think most understand this and are willing to pay a 200% single supplement, but with other cruise lines charging between 125% and 200%, how many customers would be will to pay more than 200%, possibly leaving the cruise lines to deep discount (which would be considerably less than a solo paying 200%) their berths to fill it up or sail with empty cabins.

 

 

How many cruise lines have their normal solo fares less than 200% these days? From what I have seen all of the mainstream companies tend to be 200%, though you might get some special offers on the family intensive lines. The smaller, more expensive, more inclusive lines like Oceania, Regent, Crystal, etc. would be more likely to have lower single supplements based upon their business model. I haven't checked them lately.

[TravelerThom]

If it becomes widespread then it will be interesting to see what the cruise line will do in response. After all they will have the history of each passenger and know if someone has a frequent second guest no show history.

The RCCL / RCI / Celebrity IT department is a joke and can't keep track of people's current bookings. If you seriously believe they are able to keep track of everyone's no-show history, I have a nice bridge that I'm willing to sell cheap.

 

And I find it interesting that you are getting data from the annual report to the FCC. How did the Federal Communications Commission get involved? People who are overly patronizing need to be particular careful to use correct terms.

[NLH Arizona]

How many cruise lines have their normal solo fares less than 200% these days? From what I have seen all of the mainstream companies tend to be 200%, though you might get some special offers on the family intensive lines. The smaller, more expensive, more inclusive lines like Oceania, Regent, Crystal, etc. would be more likely to have lower single supplements based upon their business model. I haven't checked them lately.

Yes, more expensive lines offer lower single supplements, but for me, if I compare Celebrity at 225% and Crystal at 135% (which is the single supplement for the cabin I cruise in), it might be beneficial to swing my Celebrity dollars over to Crystal. But as I said, with almost all cruise lines charging 200% or less, why would I give my cruise dollars to a line that would charge me over 200%?

 

We still don't know if these are one offs or a change in the supplement and hopefully Celebrity will let us know. I've been a long time customer of Celebrity and hopefully that will continue, but not if the single supplement is over 200%.

[goofysmom99]

OP, you might want to check into Azamara. I'd made the decision to say ciao to Celebrity and have already jumped ship so to speak. All but one of my future cruises is on Azamara. Their single supplement is 125% on most cruises. The per diem on my Azamara Quest Apr 2018 Transatlantic, balcony, is $253 which includes port charges & taxes, beverages (classic equivalent), gratuities, $375 OBC, wifi, a special evening land function (Azamazing Evening), and some very nice shipboard functions (White Night). And I earn 10 Captain's Club pts/night. Reflection TA in April has a $385 daily rate solo in a C3 (10 pts/night) and includes p-diddly-squat. If I were to factor in tips, wifi, classic bev pkg, etc., the daily rate would be closer to $500. Hmmm, $253 all inclusive on Azamara vs almost twice that on Celebrity.....think I can safely say this year's Oct TA on Reflection is my last on X.

 

BTW, Azamara's onboard bookings have real monetary benefits of 5%, 7%, or 10% fare reduction (Elite, Elite Plus, Zenith) and some serious OBCs. Their rates seem to be best over a year in advance so you have to plan ahead.

[RDC1]

The RCCL / RCI / Celebrity IT department is a joke and can't keep track of people's current bookings. If you seriously believe they are able to keep track of everyone's no-show history, I have a nice bridge that I'm willing to sell cheap.

 

And I find it interesting that you are getting data from the annual report to the FCC. How did the Federal Communications Commission get involved? People who are overly patronizing need to be particular careful to use correct terms.

 

 

There is quite often a big difference between the public facing web site, and the internal data warehouse in a corporation. Quite often the public facing is using a completely different data set that is exported and very limited in scope for data security reasons. For a whole number of reasons they would need to maintain far more detailed data internally. In addition external facing web sites are often built with the concept of better to limit data, then to incorrectly provide access to data intended for someone else. This also includes limiting named data (data linked to an individual even to custome

 

I would expect that their data warehouse is constructed to aggregate data and remove identification for most processing and reporting (also for security and privacy reasons. However, not difficult at all to create a system tracking cancellations. The raw transaction data would have to exist and just be a matter of creating the right query.

 

That was a typo I intended to say SEC. I was working on an analysis on the impact of a change in net neutrality and was typing FCC a lot.

Edited May 6, 2017 by RDC1

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

I don't think Celebrity system will support history tracking.

 

Shoot, the vaunted Celebrity IT system can't even support an ordinary booking some of the time. I would not think it would be capable of supporting history tracking. Here's a recent example. I'm just off the Summit. I was in the penthouse. I have not received a post-cruise survey. They sent one to my sister for this cruise. She was not on the cruise and she and I have not cruised on the same cruise for several years. So, if that's history tracking, it's not going to tell them much worth knowing!

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

Is 200% an industry standard, or should you be looking at other cruise lines? The cruise line does save money on food, even if it's not much, but there is some saving. Most fares now include a beverage package, and one person does not drink as much as two, another saving.

I wanted to go to the Galapagos and was shocked that Celebrity charged 200% for a single cabin, so I went with National Geographic/Lindblad that charged a single supplement but nothing close to 200%, and it was fantastic.

Single travelers should look for alternatives, and maybe Celebrity will hear you.

 

I received a shocking quote of $25,000 for a Galapagos trip while on board the Summit. For a single booking. I have friends going this fall with a different company. $10,000 for both of them. Needless to say, I shall look elsewhere.

[NLH Arizona]

I received a shocking quote of $25,000 for a Galapagos trip while on board the Summit. For a single booking. I have friends going this fall with a different company. $10,000 for both of them. Needless to say, I shall look elsewhere.

Try Lindblad Special Expeditions. It is an expedition ship (no frills to speak of), but when I went years ago, they had zodiacs for landing on the islands, naturalists onboard. It was a great trip.

 

I pulled up one trip, solos are allowed two different cabin categories with a lower single supplement. Category one, double price is $7,330 per person, solo rate is $10,990 and category 2 double price is $8,290 per person and solo rate is $12,440.