Classic cars

[alfaeric]

Cuba is not "anywhere else". There is less crime, and less tourist crime, than probably anywhere else you have ever been, besides having a safe on board the ship.

It's $150, not one point five million, carried only when you leave the ship to get picked up by the car's driver./guide a few yards from the pier.

Any US passport holder on a land based trip carries cash in Cuba, enough for the whole trip, maybe weeks. No reports online of any robberies.

 

Why would you want to carry cash to pay a locally based tour company?

To be the least exploitative, and most supportive, of the Cuban people on the island as possible.

This is supposedly the reason given for your trip.

 

Just want to point out that you are making a lot of assumptions of my upcoming trip that are wrong. I'm just suggesting some tour ideas based on a cruise we took 2 weeks ago. When we didn't have any idea about Cuba and Havana, so we would be like a nominal traveler who would likely be on the side of caution with their money.

 

Ok?

 

I'm not going to post info about my planned trip. I'm not interested in debating you about this.

 

You will find out about it in due time.

[CruiseGal999]

I find it extremely ironic that tourists traveling to Cuba on a "people to people" or "support for the Cuban people" reason for travel are supporting or dealing through US agencies for tours or lodging when there are Cuban agencies to deal with directly and easily that provide the same services and whose profits go 100% to Cubans on the island.

 

(Btw, there are many destinations where carrying cash is a necessity, most radically less safe than very safe Cuba.)

 

LOVE your posts. How is this fulfilling the P2P Visa? And you are SO right about Cuba being safe. SO many people have posted how they felt and were perfectly safe walking around day or night. It breaks my heart when I read posts saying "Oh, we're going through cruiseline for excursions just so we're safe". And while 'some' say safe for the P2P obligation, many say safe for personal safety out and about.

[CruiseGal999]

I find it extremely ironic that tourists traveling to Cuba on a "people to people" or "support for the Cuban people" reason for travel are supporting or dealing through US agencies for tours or lodging when there are Cuban agencies to deal with directly and easily that provide the same services and whose profits go 100% to Cubans on the island.

 

(Btw, there are many destinations where carrying cash is a necessity, most radically less safe than very safe Cuba.)

 

LOVE your posts. How is this fulfilling the P2P Visa? And you are SO right about Cuba being safe. SO many people have posted how they felt and were perfectly safe walking around day or night. It breaks my heart when I read posts saying "Oh, we're going through cruiseline for excursions just so we're safe". And while 'some' say safe for the P2P obligation, many say safe for personal safety out and about.

[VidaNaPraia]

I'm just suggesting some tour ideas based on a cruise we took 2 weeks ago. When we didn't have any idea about Cuba and Havana, so we would be like a nominal traveler who would likely be on the side of caution with their money.

Ok?.

 

That is why you do your due diligence, lots of reading of the travel forums on Cuba, asking whatever questions you have of people who have already been, some many times.

"Nominal (sic) travelers" these days go to places where you need to carry cash, where an ATM is not on every corner, where credit cards are not always accepted.

(nominal = existing in name only: of a price or amount of money very small; far below the real value or cost:) 'Normal' is perhaps what you meant? Or penurious?)

 

SO SAD to line the pockets of US companies instead of Cuban ones, and then think you need to bring charity (in the form of baseballs and meds and all the other cheap crap uninformed people mention) to Cuban people whose services you could be directly supporting, putting cash in their pockets to buy what they want and need..

[alfaeric]

LOVE your posts. How is this fulfilling the P2P Visa? And you are SO right about Cuba being safe. SO many people have posted how they felt and were perfectly safe walking around day or night. It breaks my heart when I read posts saying "Oh, we're going through cruiseline for excursions just so we're safe". And while 'some' say safe for the P2P obligation, many say safe for personal safety out and about.

Cuba may be safe, but it's human nature to not think so until you visit.

 

That, and some people are more willing to be "risky" than others, so it's natural that some people would rather reduce perceived risk by either buying ship excursions or buying self excursions on line.

 

People are quite scared of Nassau, but we love it. Been there so many times that we are very comfortable.

 

Havana is so new to people that there is no reference, other than a handful of people reporting what they did and saw. It was not long ago that it was illegal for Cuban citizens to be seen with tourists. And not long before that, we had a cold war, which turned into a few shooting wars with Cuba. So it's not at all a stretch to be intimidated by Havana, even if there's no basis to.

 

Which means that it's best to offer many different types of options for people.

[alfaeric]

That is why you do your due diligence, lots of reading of the travel forums on Cuba, asking whatever questions you have of people who have already been, some many times.

"Nominal (sic) travelers" these days go to places where you need to carry cash, where an ATM is not on every corner, where credit cards are not always accepted.

(nominal = existing in name only: of a price or amount of money very small; far below the real value or cost:) 'Normal' is perhaps what you meant? Or penurious?)

 

SO SAD to line the pockets of US companies instead of Cuban ones, and then think you need to bring charity (in the form of baseballs and meds and all the other cheap crap uninformed people mention) to Cuban people whose services you could be directly supporting, putting cash in their pockets to buy what they want and need..

 

Ok, but I'll point out that your making of assumptions isn't helping. As much as you think it is, it isn't.

 

Again, we were there 2 weeks ago. You can read my review. My suggestions here are based on what we DID, not what we are doing.

 

There are a lot of other sad things in life to worry about. You can deal with it. You may be surprised that to make a reservation for a Casa Particulare- the best way of doing that is using Airbnb. There are many hundreds of them in Cuba for people to book. Sure, you can attempt to fly there and find someplace, but like anywhere else in the world, it's a whole lot easier with a service. And like the Airbnb's in my home town, they skim off a little money for the service they provide. But it does result in a place to stay, owned by a person.

[VidaNaPraia]

Cuba may be safe, but it's human nature to not think so until you visit.

What a sad attitude, to be scared of the world before you even know it.

 

Havana is so new to people that there is no reference, other than a handful of people reporting what they did and saw. It was not long ago that it was illegal for Cuban citizens to be seen with tourists. And not long before that, we had a cold war, which turned into a few shooting wars with Cuba. So it's not at all a stretch to be intimidated by Havana, even if there's no basis to.

 

There are thousands of posts online from people (Americans included) who have been going to Cuba for decades, including on the very mainstream Trip Advisor. It is a very popular destination with tourists from "the rest of the world" . Sorry you continue to be brainwashed by ancient Cold War propaganda and Miami grudge-holders, and choose to continue to espouse very outdated thinking.

 

You may be surprised that to make a reservation for a Casa Particulare- the best way of doing that is using Airbnb.

 

I would be VERY SURPRISED to find that out.

There are dozens of casa particular agencies based in Cuba, very easy to communicate with. If you are looking for info, a poster named Laurie has multiple times printed a list of them on Trip Advisor.'s Cuba forum. The same casas listed on AirBnB are listed on these casa booking sites, but at a significantly lower price.

In fact, AirBnB has not been paying their Cuban casa particular hosts at all (widely reported on lately online) and many hosts are not getting the money they earned. . Is that "the best way"?

Edited August 3, 2017 by VidaNaPraia

[alfaeric]

What a sad attitude, to be scared of the world before you even know it.

 

 

 

There are thousands of posts online from people (Americans included) who have been going to Cuba for decades, including on the very mainstream Trip Advisor. It is a very popular destination with tourists from "the rest of the world" . Sorry you continue to be brainwashed by ancient Cold War propaganda and Miami grudge-holders, and choose to continue to espouse very outdated thinking.

 

What a condescending attitude you have. You obviously think you are better than normal people. I'm going out of my way to be empathetic to other people- you can bother to do the same. It would be helpful as opposed to insulting. I actually empathize with people who want to visit Cuba but are intimidated by it. That's not saying that I am. But that I put effort into understanding why others are, and how to work with it so that they, too, can have a worry free trip to Havana.

 

And you make a LOT of assumptions for others, including me, that are completely wrong. Please stop.

[VidaNaPraia]

What a condescending attitude you have. You obviously think you are better than normal people. I'm going out of my way to be empathetic to other people- you can bother to do the same. It would be helpful as opposed to insulting. I actually empathize with people who want to visit Cuba but are intimidated by it. That's not saying that I am. But that I put effort into understanding why others are, and how to work with it so that they, too, can have a worry free trip to Havana.

 

And you make a LOT of assumptions for others, including me, that are completely wrong. Please stop.

 

What I have are Cuban friends on the island whose views I listen to.

What I have are Cuban friends in the US who are not grudge holders.

What I have is an attitude toward travel that is not based on fear.

What I have is a view informed by lots of reading, including of those who have spent a lot of time in Cuba.

What I have is a respect for the Cuban people.

 

 

What you have is a view promulgating ways of thinking and acting that are not beneficial to Cuban people on the island, not beneficial to an understanding of the culture, not beneficial to good future relations between the two countries. Please stop.

The "other people" who you are "empathizing with" are foreign tourists coming into another country purportedly to support the people of that country, not put money into the pockets of Americans at the expense of those locals. My sympathies are with the locals and with travelers who care enough to inform themselves wisely..

There is no excuse for not doing due diligence before traveling. In this day and age,there exists an internet with lots of information, some of it sound; one needs to discriminate good advice from bad though. That is how you have a worry free trip.

Or don't bother to travel to countries that "intimidate" you and then give advice based on fear and ignorance.

Edited August 3, 2017 by VidaNaPraia

[CruiseGal999]

Cuba may be safe, but it's human nature to not think so until you visit.

 

That, and some people are more willing to be "risky" than others, so it's natural that some people would rather reduce perceived risk by either buying ship excursions or buying self excursions on line.

 

People are quite scared of Nassau, but we love it. Been there so many times that we are very comfortable.

 

Havana is so new to people that there is no reference, other than a handful of people reporting what they did and saw. It was not long ago that it was illegal for Cuban citizens to be seen with tourists. And not long before that, we had a cold war, which turned into a few shooting wars with Cuba. So it's not at all a stretch to be intimidated by Havana, even if there's no basis to.

 

Which means that it's best to offer many different types of options for people.

 

[alfaeric]

What I have are Cuban friends on the island whose views I listen to.

What I have are Cuban friends in the US who are not grudge holders.

What I have is an attitude toward travel that is not based on fear.

What I have is a view informed by lots of reading, including of those who have spent a lot of time in Cuba.

What I have is a respect for the Cuban people.

 

 

What you have is a view promulgating ways of thinking and acting that are not beneficial to Cuban people on the island, not beneficial to an understanding of the culture, not beneficial to good future relations between the two countries. Please stop.

The "other people" who you are "empathizing with" are foreign tourists coming into another country purportedly to support the people of that country, not put money into the pockets of Americans at the expense of those locals. My sympathies are with the locals and with travelers who care enough to inform themselves wisely..

There is no excuse for not doing due diligence before traveling. In this day and age,there exists an internet with lots of information, some of it sound; one needs to discriminate good advice from bad though. That is how you have a worry free trip.

Or don't bother to travel to countries that "intimidate" you and then give advice based on fear and ignorance.

 

Ah, more assumptions. good job. But I'm not the one being the first part of ASSumption.

 

Good luck with that. You will have a great life judging other people.

 

Off to the ignore list.

[alfaeric]

???

 

Are you telling me that I'm afraid and whatnot, too? Really? Wow.

 

What's up with all of these assumptions? I'm just trying to help others travel, that's it. Is it that evil to empathize with them??? Holy cow. Never knew that was such a bad thing.

[CruiseGal999]

???

 

Are you telling me that I'm afraid and whatnot, too? Really? Wow.

 

What's up with all of these assumptions? I'm just trying to help others travel, that's it. Is it that evil to empathize with them??? Holy cow. Never knew that was such a bad thing.

 

Hit a nerve did I? All I did was post a saying from Ralph Waldo Emerson. He he he .... What was it Poe wrote about guilt? :D

[alfaeric]

Hit a nerve did I? All I did was post a saying from Ralph Waldo Emerson. He he he .... What was it Poe wrote about guilt? :D

Other than you going out of your way to attempt to insult me, no.

 

But that's pretty weak and very judgemental of you. How that makes for a good example to travel with is a wonder to me.

 

I'll just ignore you, too. Really have had nothing original to add anyway.

[VidaNaPraia]

Really have had nothing original to add anyway.

 

No, YOU certainly have not.

 

I'm just trying to help others travel, that's it. Is it that evil to empathize with them??? .

 

Why don't you empathize with the people whose country you who is so graciously hosting you?

These fledgling entrepreneurs need every centavo to build their lives, and the lives of their extended families, and they work hard for it.

Instead of explaining and simplifying the process of supporting the very people who you have supposedly come to meet, befriend and support, you spend time and energy giving detailed instructions for further enriching a bunch of Americans who skim the cream off the top of those Cubans' hard work, and then you argue with anyone who suggests a more humanitarian and friendly approach to visiting Cuba might be strongly preferable.

Every centavo you give to an American company is one centavo less for a Cuban company and the individual Cuban behind it struggling to improve his/her life.

If someone isn't aware of the situation in Cuba and that there are ways to deal directly and easily with Cubans for services and goods, why not use your time, energy and posting space to help them learn how, and learn the value of doing so?

Is it such a good thing to enrich the already rich at the expense of the poor?

 

Who's the @$$ wasting time here on misplaced priorities?

 

.. What was it Poe wrote about guilt?

Yeah, he also said something about a talent for misconception.

[CruiseGal999]

No, YOU certainly have not.

 

 

 

Why don't you empathize with the people whose country you who is so graciously hosting you?

These fledgling entrepreneurs need every centavo to build their lives, and the lives of their extended families, and they work hard for it.

Instead of explaining and simplifying the process of supporting the very people who you have supposedly come to meet, befriend and support, you spend time and energy giving detailed instructions for further enriching a bunch of Americans who skim the cream off the top of those Cubans' hard work, and then you argue with anyone who suggests a more humanitarian and friendly approach to visiting Cuba might be strongly preferable.

Every centavo you give to an American company is one centavo less for a Cuban company and the individual Cuban behind it struggling to improve his/her life.

If someone isn't aware of the situation in Cuba and that there are ways to deal directly and easily with Cubans for services and goods, why not use your time, energy and posting space to help them learn how, and learn the value of doing so?

Is it such a good thing to enrich the already rich at the expense of the poor?

 

Who's the @$$ wasting time here on misplaced priorities?

 

 

Yeah, he also said something about a talent for misconception.

 

:D:') Thank you! LOVE this.

 

It just kills me and breaks my heart every time I read how people are adamant to NOT pay the Cuban people any money. They'll pay the ship's inflated prices for excursions and shows.

[decemberroses]

 

What a sad attitude, to be scared of the world before you even know it.

 

There are thousands of posts online from people (Americans included) who have been going to Cuba for decades, including on the very mainstream Trip Advisor. It is a very popular destination with tourists from "the rest of the world" . Sorry you continue to be brainwashed by ancient Cold War propaganda and Miami grudge-holders, and choose to continue to espouse very outdated thinking.

 

Man, you are one confusing person. I have read some very informative posts from you, then some very condescending posts. :-P Yes, you may think it a sad attitude, but that is how it is for many humans--being afraid of the unknown. It's nothing new, friend. I travel a LOT. I was almost seriously hurt by some not nice people in a place where tourists and travelers go to daily. A well-traveled place is not exempt from danger. As a result of that experience, I am a little cautious when I go somewhere new until I've had time to gauge things. Also, I'm on the spectrum, and to be honest, anything out of my every day norm can be scary for me until I see for myself how things are. Don't make assumptions about people having sad attitudes (or lives) because they are different from you. I may be wired differently than you, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with either me nor my cautious nature. I happen to enjoy my life immensely--more so than most people I meet.

[Nashna]

Man, you are one confusing person. I have read some very informative posts from you, then some very condescending posts. :-P Yes, you may think it a sad attitude, but that is how it is for many humans--being afraid of the unknown. It's nothing new, friend. I travel a LOT. I was almost seriously hurt by some not nice people in a place where tourists and travelers go to daily. A well-traveled place is not exempt from danger. As a result of that experience, I am a little cautious when I go somewhere new until I've had time to gauge things. Also, I'm on the spectrum, and to be honest, anything out of my every day norm can be scary for me until I see for myself how things are. Don't make assumptions about people having sad attitudes (or lives) because they are different from you. I may be wired differently than you, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with either me nor my cautious nature. I happen to enjoy my life immensely--more so than most people I meet.

Thank you for your post. I spent 30 years as a travel professional. During my career, I met with many types of travelers. People approach travel in many different ways. Some never wish to leave their county, city or state. Most travelers wish to take their lifestyle along with them. They visit places that are familiar to them. My uncle received a wonderful gift when he retired after 45 years with the same company. He was given a trip around the World for two. Guess what he picked? Hawaii! That was the only place he felt comfortable visiting. Cruising is a very comfortable way to travel. People have the security of knowing that at the end of the day, they can go back to their "home away from home". Those travelers are not wrong. It is how they wish to travel comfortably. I do understand that some folks wish to pre-book their excursions to Cuba with the cruise line or a US based tour operator. This gives them the security that they require in order to travel. Let's applaud them for getting out and seeing the World instead of belittling them. They are traveling in their comfort zone. I am a seasoned traveler who will be making my own arrangements when I arrive in Cuba. For me, finding my own way is part of the thrill and excitement of travel. Studies have shown that only 10 percent of the population are truly adventurous travelers. Please don't knock the rest of the population.

[Go-Bucks!]

Whew.....I came here to get info and advice but instead had to suffer through a war of words by VidaNaPraia and alfaeric! Your bickering is NOT helpful - it's miserable for the rest of us.

 

Please share FACTUAL info and not your opinions or biases, no matter how passionate you are about them. CC is not a place where either of you are in a contest about who's opinions are best....we're interested in facts.

 

Like decemberroses and Nashna said, people travel differently and are entitled to their own way. It doesn't matter if you think someone is "fearful" or not - that's their business. And, frankly, a little bit of fear and caution has kept me from getting into some potentially dangerous situations in several places in the world. Always good to be alert to your surroundings no matter where you are.

[CruiseGal999]

Whew.....I came here to get info and advice but instead had to suffer through a war of words by VidaNaPraia and alfaeric! Your bickering is NOT helpful - it's miserable for the rest of us.

 

Please share FACTUAL info and not your opinions or biases, no matter how passionate you are about them. CC is not a place where either of you are in a contest about who's opinions are best....we're interested in facts.

 

Like decemberroses and Nashna said, people travel differently and are entitled to their own way. It doesn't matter if you think someone is "fearful" or not - that's their business. And, frankly, a little bit of fear and caution has kept me from getting into some potentially dangerous situations in several places in the world. Always good to be alert to your surroundings no matter where you are.

 

Everything VidaNaPraia writes IS factual. It is most everyone else's posts that are speculation, fear and ignorance. It is only FOR the people that we speak out so loudly! And my personal experience in traveling to Cuba as a solo female cruise was terrific. I went with a private CUBAN company. I met more Cuban people directly and had wonderful experiences with them. Like many posts on CC ... people who have been travelling to Cuba and writing their actual, factual experiences.

[tommui987]

I always consider the experiences of people that have visited countries more than once. Those that been somewhere once, I give some consideration. Those that never have been, I disregard.

 

"Consider" is the operative word.

[alfaeric]

Whew.....I came here to get info and advice but instead had to suffer through a war of words by VidaNaPraia and alfaeric! Your bickering is NOT helpful - it's miserable for the rest of us.

 

 

 

Please share FACTUAL info and not your opinions or biases, no matter how passionate you are about them. CC is not a place where either of you are in a contest about who's opinions are best....we're interested in facts.

 

 

 

Like decemberroses and Nashna said, people travel differently and are entitled to their own way. It doesn't matter if you think someone is "fearful" or not - that's their business. And, frankly, a little bit of fear and caution has kept me from getting into some potentially dangerous situations in several places in the world. Always good to be alert to your surroundings no matter where you are.

 

 

 

Sorry.

 

Found some new stuff for Havana, as we just spent the weekend there. It will be a new thread.

 

 

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