Leaving ship before reaching final port?

[DonahCBrown]

Is it possible to cut short a cruise by disembarking a port early? On the 10 day Mexican Riviera Dawn Princess, can you get off in San Diego instead of returning to San Francisco?

DA

 

We live in Hawaii, took the Dawn Princess Honolulu-Tahiti-Honolulu back to back. There were a lot of folks from Hawaii on board, and many did the B-2-B as the prices for local residents were really favorable. Lots of folks made arrangements to get off on their home islands and save airfare on interisland flights. I don't know if they got charged extra, though.

 

We arranged with friends to have our "big" luggage picked up when we were in Hilo, and flew home from Honolulu with just our hand luggage the next day (never wanting to lose a cruise day!) but we did have to have our stuff cleared in Hilo through customs. It wasn't a big deal, but because it isn't a huge port, there are only two customs officers, and we had to wait for them to clear a couple of airplanes and a yacht before they came over and cleared our luggage and a couple of passengers who disembarked early.

 

It sounds from the other postings that practices vary a lot with respect to what is and isn't allowed, and it would be a good idea to check with both the cruise line and with your travel agent about doing this, although it sounds pretty similar to our situation here in Hawaii.

 

Donna

[JLC@SD]

Reading this thread proves:

 

This is a law that no one truly understands or can describe.

 

From what I understand, the law was passed to protect US built ships and US crewed ships.

 

Well there haven't been any US built ships or US crewed ships since the 1950's. And I don't count NCL's Hawaii ships as the law was bent to get them in.

 

So, foreign flagged ships cant schedule Seattle to San Diego or Boston to Ft. Lauderdale. So who is hurt, all the ports losing potential cruise buisness up and down the east and west coast.

 

And Congress continues to make laws but can't unmake this idiotic law.

[JLC@SD]

double post

[wrp96]

We live in Hawaii, took the Dawn Princess Honolulu-Tahiti-Honolulu back to back. There were a lot of folks from Hawaii on board, and many did the B-2-B as the prices for local residents were really favorable. Lots of folks made arrangements to get off on their home islands and save airfare on interisland flights. I don't know if they got charged extra, though.

 

We arranged with friends to have our "big" luggage picked up when we were in Hilo, and flew home from Honolulu with just our hand luggage the next day (never wanting to lose a cruise day!) but we did have to have our stuff cleared in Hilo through customs. It wasn't a big deal, but because it isn't a huge port, there are only two customs officers, and we had to wait for them to clear a couple of airplanes and a yacht before they came over and cleared our luggage and a couple of passengers who disembarked early.

 

It sounds from the other postings that practices vary a lot with respect to what is and isn't allowed, and it would be a good idea to check with both the cruise line and with your travel agent about doing this, although it sounds pretty similar to our situation here in Hawaii.

 

Donna

 

If I'm understanding correctly, people got on in say Honolulu, everybody went to Tahiti together, but some got off in say Kona? I think this didn't violate the act because Tahiti is, most likely, under the PSA a distant foreign port. If you stop in a distant foreign port, you can transport passengers between two different U.S. ports (in your case Honolulu and Kona) without violating the PSA.

[MaryPoppinz]

If you stop in a distant foreign port, you can transport passengers between two different U.S. ports (in your case Honolulu and Kona) without violating the PSA.

 

That is exactly my understanding of why the OP cannot travel between San Francisco and San Diego. Without a "distant foreign port," the US travel must be roundtrip to<-->from one US port.

[calikak]

 

And Congress continues to make laws but can't unmake this idiotic law.

 

So true. I think the main reason that Congress hasn't done anything about it is that the cruise industry has not lobbied to have it repealed. I'm still not clear on why they haven't lobbied to have it repealed, perhaps someone with a better understanding of the industry can explain that to us.

 

Let me try to sum up the way the Passenger Services Act works. The PSA (often erroneously referred to as the Jones Act, which applies to cargo instead of passengers) applies to itineraries that both begin AND end in the US. If the itinerary begins and ends in the SAME US port, the ship must visit any non-US port at some point in the itinerary to meet the requirements of the law. If the itinerary begins in one US port and ends in another US port, it must visit what the law calls a "distant" foreign port at some point in the itinerary. "Distant" is defined in the regulation linked earlier in this thread, but generally it means a port not in North America (so, not Canada, Mexico, or most of the Caribbean). The law analyzes an itinerary not by what is advertised by the cruise line, but by what itinerary the individual passenger actually takes. Hence there being potential PSA problems when a passenger disembarks early (even if it's by accident or because of an emergency), or sails a back-to-back itinerary. The penalty for violation of the PSA is a fine of a few hundred dollars, which the cruise line usually passes along to the customer. The PSA is a US law, so it applies to sailings from US ports, but some other countries also have their own versions of the PSA. In general these laws are referred to as "cabotage" laws.

 

Now let's take an example. Say someone wanted to do a back-to-back Alaska cruise, Anchorage to Vancouver and Vancouver to Anchorage. The passenger would get on in Anchorage, and get off in Anchorage, so the cruise would both begin and end in a US port, so the PSA would apply. Since it begins and ends in the same US port, the passenger would need to visit any foreign port, and since the ship stops in Vancouver, the itinerary would not violate the PSA.

 

Here's another example: Say someone wanted to do a similar back to back at the end of the Alaska season, except instead of returing to Anchorage, they want to stay on the ship for the repositioning to LA. The cruise would start in Anchorage, a US port, and end in LA, another US port, so it would need to visit a "distant" foreign port. Since the Anchorage to Vancouver and Vancouver to LA itineraries only visit a regular, not a "distant", foreign port, this itinerary would violate the PSA.

 

Now let's take that example that someone mentioned about the Hawaii-Tahiti-Hawaii back to back cruise, where some people disembarked early, in Hilo, instead of continuing on to Honolulu, where they had embarked. So, these passengers embarked in one US port, Honolulu, and disembarked in another, Hilo. So, to meet the requirements of the PSA, they would need to stop in a "distant" foreign port at some point during their cruise. Since they stopped in Tahiti, which counts as a "distant" foreign port, they met the requirements of the PSA, even though they embarked in one US port and disembarked in another US port.

 

I guess that wasn't really summing it up, but it's hard to understand how it works without seeing a few examples.

[craigers82]

Reading this thread proves:

 

This is a law that no one truly understands or can describe.

 

From what I understand, the law was passed to protect US built ships and US crewed ships.

 

Well there haven't been any US built ships or US crewed ships since the 1950's. And I don't count NCL's Hawaii ships as the law was bent to get them in.

 

So, foreign flagged ships cant schedule Seattle to San Diego or Boston to Ft. Lauderdale. So who is hurt, all the ports losing potential cruise buisness up and down the east and west coast.

 

And Congress continues to make laws but can't unmake this idiotic law.

 

No US built or crewed ships since 1950? I guess your not including ships like the Alaska ferries.

[paul929207]

No US built or crewed ships since 1950? I guess your not including ships like the Alaska ferries.

I think the author was referring to the large cruise ships.

[tytan]

Does this only apply to US citizens or passengers of any nationality ?

[Pam in CA]

wonder what would happen if he just left and didn't say he was gonna get off early.

They have your credit card # on file; he'd be charged not only the PVSA fee but any fee incurred if the ship waits for him thinking he's just tardy coming back. This is NOT a good idea and could wind up being a very expensive decision.

 

Getting a ship US flagged is expensive, so the cruise lines don't do it.

The biggest issue in getting a ship flagged in the U.S. is that it must be built in the U.S., the crew must be mostly U.S. citizens and all crew are paid a salary, along with paying U.S. income tax regardless of where the crewmember lives. It's not just a matter of being expensive, there are many other requirements involved that make it almost prohibitive. In general, U.S. crew don't want to work the hours or the intensity that foreign crewmembers do for a pretty low wage. Nor do the foreign crewmembers like paying U.S. taxes even though they don't live here.

 

Yeah, but the price might be prorated in the brochure depending upon where you are going to disembark. I've seen cruises advertised with three prices ... depending on whether you are planning to disembark in say Los Angeles, Seattle or Vancouver.

On my January HAL cruise, passengers had the option of boarding in Rio or Buenos Aires (to avoid getting a Brazilian visa.) Several hundred opted to board in Buenos Aires. It was a 3-day difference and they got only about $200 off a pretty expensive cruise.

 

The main thing is that if you want to disembark the ship early, you MUST request it and get it approved by Princess or otherwise, possibly incur fines.

[smeyer418]

As long as the ship has been at one foreign port before the OP disembarks, it's fine. But, if there has been no foreign port yet, disembarking before making that foreign port will not be allowed except in an emergency.

 

I took the Island Princess Circle Hawaii from San Pedro. Apparently some people decided to just disembark at one of the Hawaiin islands without discussing it with anybody from Princess. The cruise director ... in a coffee chat one day on the way back from the islands to San Pedro ... told us that this couple both got assessed a hefty fine ... something like five grand ... for violating the Jones Act. We were not due to hit our foreign port ... Enseneda, Mexico ... until the last day of the cruise.

 

Of course, though, he said that in the case of an emergency requiring a passenger to leave the ship to fly home, exceptions can and are made.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

 

No this is not true how many times have people said this to you. If you start in a US port you can't get off at a different US port unless the ship stops at a distant foreign port. If it stops at a local foreign port you have to get off at the same US port you left from or any foreign port. Whether you get off in SD before the ship visits Mexico or after it the same exact fine and its violates the PVSA. You can get off in Mexico or Canada no one cares. If the Ship states in Vancouver you can get off in any US port. This isn't brain surgery its fairly simple and what you consider an emergency and what the CG who hears the appeals considers an emergency are two different things. A cruise to no where is ok because you are not transported anywhere. If the ship starts in one US port and stops anywhere it must stop in a t least one foreign port(tendering is ok- a wave by stop has been ok too but most cruise lines have stopped that. Some cruise start in one US port stop at another US port and then go to a foreign port and return to the original US port its ok as long as a passenger doesn't permanently leave the ship- they have to get back on before it leaves. PR and the VI are considered foreign stops so a cruise can end there and start at a different US port. and finally a repositioning cruise which begin and end at a different US city are ok as long as you stop in one distant foreign port which means South America and not Mexico, bermuda Canada , Central America or the Carribean. for this purpose the ABC's island are considered part of South America.

The one NCL ship the Pride of America- was mostly made in the US a special law was passed to allow them to complete it overseas but that same special law doesn't permit them to routinely travel from the West Coast to Hawaii or Alaska for that matter.

Finally besides the fine the ship and cruise line can be permanently or temporily banned from visiting any US port and while this has never been done a cruise line that sets out to intentional violate this law may see its ships barred and no cruise line will take that chance.

[smeyer418]

Does this only apply to US citizens or passengers of any nationality ?

any nationality. It has to do with a person(of any nationality) being transported in what is called coastwise trading. Citizenship is irrelevant for this purpose...

[smeyer418]

Reading this thread proves:

 

This is a law that no one truly understands or can describe.

 

From what I understand, the law was passed to protect US built ships and US crewed ships.

 

Well there haven't been any US built ships or US crewed ships since the 1950's. And I don't count NCL's Hawaii ships as the law was bent to get them in.

 

So, foreign flagged ships cant schedule Seattle to San Diego or Boston to Ft. Lauderdale. So who is hurt, all the ports losing potential cruise buisness up and down the east and west coast.

 

And Congress continues to make laws but can't unmake this idiotic law.

 

Actually there are some small US flagged vessels that do the North east run. There was a US flagged vessel doing the NY to Florida run about 30 years ago that wasn't profitable. The cruise lines in fact don't mind this as much as you think. The main issue is transporting goods(which is what the Jones Act does cover) between two US cities. The reason that this requires a US flagged vessel is to protect a fair amount of US jobs. The same reasoning also prevents non US flagged airlines from transporting people between NY and Florida these have to be US flagged planes. It does protect hundred of thousands of jobs. You may not see it but every tug every ferry has to be US flagged because of this law....so just because you cruise don't forget it covers other things as well....

[George25923]

I had never heard of the Jones Act or the P.S. Act until the last week or so and I have done much reading since then. I want to make sure we can do what I want to do as explained below before I make travel reservations.

We are doing an Alaskan cruise next May, leaving and returning to Seattle. We have always wanted to go to Victoria. It just so happens when we return Victoria is the last stop prior to Seattle. We plan to leave the ship in Victoria. We are doing all our own travel arrangements. When I booked the cruise with NCL he checked and said no problem but leaving the ship in Victoria is not mentioned on the invoice they sent me. I told them I must have something in writing listing what we plan to do. The ship gets to Victoria at 6PM on Saturday night and leaves Victoria at 11PM getting to Seattle at 8AM on Sunday. We would waste a day traveling from Seattle to Victoria at the end of the cruise. Question: has

anyone ever left the ship prior to the normal return port or done anything

similar to what we are planning? If so do we need to let anyone know other than the ship personnel when we leave and don't plan to return?

Thanks

Em

[JennAngel9]

Em,

 

We have done this on the Tahitian Princess, so it is possible-- though we were on a different itinerary. I think you should be OK getting off in Victoria, but I would certainly want something in writing from your cruiseline &/ TA. About 1/2 way through the cruise, we reconfirmed with the purser's desk that we would be leaving early. On the day before, somebody came by to ask when we would be getting off and if we needed assistance with our luggage. As it was a tender port, we ended up having our own boat and "personal assistant" ferry us and our luggage to shore. It was incredibly painless-- but we did not expect (or get) any price break for leaving the ship 2 days early.

[tompeter]

Having done something similar with Holland America in the carribbean, my travel agent advised me that the cruise line requests 30 days notice of your intentions. I assume Princess would be similar. As previously mentioned, we also confirmed with the purser office shortly after boarding and they had all the required info and were very helpful upon departure as well.

[SharkieRools]

If you're ever bored, the text of the law is here:

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=e5043b52c4902726c011a22ec39ee789&rgn=div8&view=text&node=19:1.0.1.1.3.0.6.66&idno=19

 

In short:

Roundtrip from /to US Port: Must stop at any foreign port

Start/End at different US ports: Must stop at distant foreign port

 

Nearby foreign port means any foreign port in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao). A port in the U.S. Virgin Islands shall be treated as a nearby foreign port.

 

Distant foreign port means any foreign port that is not a nearby port.

[imsulin]

Distance has nothing to do with it. This is why you can take the 4 day cruises out of LA that go to San Diego, Ensenada and Catalina Island and still comply with the act. You could not go from San Francisco and get off in San Diego without FIRST going to Mexico under the Jones Act, but if you go to Mexico first, then get off in San Diego on the way home, it would appear to comply.

 

Round trip cruises from San Diego or LA to Hawaii now only stop in Ensenada for 1-4 hours....Ensenada is only 90 miles from San Diego, so certainly is not "distant".

 

But Ensenada is definitely a distant port as far as Hawaii is concerned. Like a few thousand miles.

[SharkieRools]

But Ensenada is definitely a distant port as far as Hawaii is concerned. Like a few thousand miles.

 

However it's not distant as defined by the PVSA (As shown in my post #42 above) :D

[capnjack]

The answer as so many have already said is yes you can get off a cruise at a different port. In fact I know of several people who have used a short carnival cruise to make a on way trip to Cozumel and take a huge amount of luggage with them. It was less expensive than flying and shipping the stuff.

 

 

"In order to embark in a US port and disembark in a second US port, the vessel must visit a distant foreign port outside of the North America(Bermuda counts as Part of North America)."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Vessel_Services_Act_of_1886

 

Therefore, a non-US flagged vessel that transports a passenger from San Francisco and to San Diego without a stop in a foreign port outside of North America, is in violation of the Passenger Vessel Services Act.

 

I don't consider Victoria, BC to be a distant foreign port. But, In June, Princess allowed us to disembark in Victoria a day early, rather than go back to Seattle. We hadn't planned this in advance, just did it on the ship on our way to Victoria! I also used my cell phone to get a reservation at a hotel! We weren't charged anything!

But it is also not transportation between two US cities since you disembarked in Victoria, Canada (transport from Seattle to Victoria => no violation)

 

 

That is why Alaska cruises starting in Seattle are all round trip (with a stop in Victoria or Vancouver), while cruises to/from Vancouver are one way.

[Cruisin' Chick]

I had never heard of the Jones Act or the P.S. Act until the last week or so and I have done much reading since then. I want to make sure we can do what I want to do as explained below before I make travel reservations.

We are doing an Alaskan cruise next May, leaving and returning to Seattle. We have always wanted to go to Victoria. It just so happens when we return Victoria is the last stop prior to Seattle. We plan to leave the ship in Victoria. We are doing all our own travel arrangements. When I booked the cruise with NCL he checked and said no problem but leaving the ship in Victoria is not mentioned on the invoice they sent me. I told them I must have something in writing listing what we plan to do. The ship gets to Victoria at 6PM on Saturday night and leaves Victoria at 11PM getting to Seattle at 8AM on Sunday. We would waste a day traveling from Seattle to Victoria at the end of the cruise. Question: has

anyone ever left the ship prior to the normal return port or done anything

similar to what we are planning? If so do we need to let anyone know other than the ship personnel when we leave and don't plan to return?

Thanks

Em

 

One important thing will be if there are immigration officials available, I guess. I remember going through some checkpoint leaving the ship before getting on the shuttle bus to go into town. But it doesn't mean they are set up to disembark any cruiseship passengers.

[pablo222]

Reading this thread proves:

 

This is a law that no one truly understands or can describe.

 

 

I disagree. Reading this thread shows that people who don't

understand the law post just as much as those who do.

[smeyer418]

One important thing will be if there are immigration officials available' date=' I guess. I remember going through some checkpoint leaving the ship before getting on the shuttle bus to go into town. But it doesn't mean they are set up to disembark any cruiseship passengers.[/quote']

all places that a cruise ship stops have "immigration" officials available. They are the ones who "clear" the ship. They look at the papers and let the ship come in and disembark. If the passengers are allowed off to tour(even if they have to get back on) immigration(or in the US CBP) has cleared the ship and the passengers. the issue is whether they are set up for permanent disembarkation and yes they normally are if they have notice. The same officials who do the clearing will clear the permanent getting off-ers. Whether they will have people to help with the luggage is another issue. Even in the US, at most intermediate ports, crew is exchanged(crew is NOT subject to the PVSA) and they are cleared by the same officials.

[Eggfrmr]

I don't consider Victoria, BC to be a distant foreign port. But, In June, Princess allowed us to disembark in Victoria a day early, rather than go back to Seattle. We hadn't planned this in advance, just did it on the ship on our way to Victoria! I also used my cell phone to get a reservation at a hotel! We weren't charged anything!

 

Thank you for this! We are sailing to Alaska from Seattle, but are travelling from Victoria. We were hoping we could disembark in Victoria and save the cost of travelling back from Seattle.

[IECalCruiser]

Thank you for this! We are sailing to Alaska from Seattle, but are travelling from Victoria. We were hoping we could disembark in Victoria and save the cost of travelling back from Seattle.

You do realize that the last post before your's was 7-1/2 years ago. You should be able to disembark in Victoria but you will need to work with Princess in advance to get approval.

 

 

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