Channel 4 - Secrets of your cruise

[davenew]

No I think your comment is very sensible, there ought to be a way of using electricity from ashore, thus enabling the onboard engines to be switched off.

Of course cost may well be a factor, although if the local authority wants to reduce pollution they could perhaps be persuaded to subsidise the cruise lines.

I think you may also want to accept that most of these installations have mega Gensets providing the power. These are usually run by diesel turbine or gas turbine engines.

All ships are fitted with banks of gensets that provide the auxiliary power, that are fuelled separately from the main engines.

[davenew]

As a local, I'm well aware Southampton want to, but as I've said it will need significant investment and upgrades.

Levy the local businesses that are taking all this extra money from cruise passengers. The ships pay duties to land passengers, and passengers pay monies when in port on parking, hotels etc so where is all that income going?? It should be used to pay for all these electric installations.

[wowzz]

True, 5000 cruise pax using electricity is high usage, but whilst they are on the cruise, they are not using electricity at home, so surely there is no net gain in usage, and most probably a net loss.

That is not really the point. The issue is that whilst the ship is in port with it's engines running to generate electricity, it is equivalent to 600 [or was it 6000?] hgv's running .Imagine that in a residential area. Electricity that we use from the National Grid may not be the most environmentally friendly, but it is much more efficiently produced than that produced by cruise liners

[CCFC]

That is not really the point. The issue is that whilst the ship is in port with it's engines running to generate electricity, it is equivalent to 600 [or was it 6000?] hgv's running .Imagine that in a residential area. Electricity that we use from the National Grid may not be the most environmentally friendly, but it is much more efficiently produced than that produced by cruise liners

 

Why would the local power production on a ship be less efficient than having long power lines from a power station with power loss?

[wowzz]

Sorry, too complicated for me to answer. My point is that you don't want the generators operating in a built up urban environment, which is the case if the cruise liners spend 18 hours moored up at Greenwich.

[terrierjohn]

Why would the local power production on a ship be less efficient than having long power lines from a power station with power loss?

I had not realised that transmission power loss could be up 7%, I wonder how far from Southampton and the proposed Greenwich cruise terminal are the nearest power stations?

Maybe the cheapest option is for Southampton ratepayers to pay for particle scrubbers to be installed fleet wide on P&O ships?;)

[Saintston]

Levy the local businesses that are taking all this extra money from cruise passengers. The ships pay duties to land passengers, and passengers pay monies when in port on parking, hotels etc so where is all that income going?? It should be used to pay for all these electric installations.

 

Do that and you're penalising Joe Public by taking money out of the local economy. Port cities and their populations put up with negative impacts of cruise liners (in addition to pollution), such as traffic and excess pressure on infrastructure etc. The economic benefits are what makes them accept the negative side effects to some degree.

 

I would have thought it fairer for costs to be passed on to cruise lines / shipping companies, who would then have to decide to what extent they bear the brunt of it or pass it on to their customers. It's ultimately fairer for their customers to be paying an official / unofficial green levy, seeing as they are the ones choosing to use the ships.

 

I say that as somebody who is both a local bystander and a passenger, so relatively impartial.

[Saintston]

I had not realised that transmission power loss could be up 7%, I wonder how far from Southampton and the proposed Greenwich cruise terminal are the nearest power stations?

Maybe the cheapest option is for Southampton ratepayers to pay for particle scrubbers to be installed fleet wide on P&O ships?;)

Southampton docks has its own power station ( which also produces power for some civic services). How much of its electricity is generated by this, I don't know. Southampton also has a larger power station across Southampton Water at Fawkes.

[wowzz]

The thing is that a cruise liner cannot simply plug a 3 point plug into a power point at the dock. A considerable amount of money needs to be spent for any form of landside power transmission capability. The question is, who will pay for it?

[davenew]

Do that and you're penalising Joe Public by taking money out of the local economy. Port cities and their populations put up with negative impacts of cruise liners (in addition to pollution), such as traffic and excess pressure on infrastructure etc. The economic benefits are what makes them accept the negative side effects to some degree.

 

 

 

I would have thought it fairer for costs to be passed on to cruise lines / shipping companies, who would then have to decide to what extent they bear the brunt of it or pass it on to their customers. It's ultimately fairer for their customers to be paying an official / unofficial green levy, seeing as they are the ones choosing to use the ships.

 

 

 

I say that as somebody who is both a local bystander and a passenger, so relatively impartial.

 

 

 

Ok, so you're quite happy to grab the positives, but you want nothing to do with the negatives.

Thats seems fair .

 

 

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[davenew]

That is not really the point. The issue is that whilst the ship is in port with it's engines running to generate electricity, it is equivalent to 600 [or was it 6000?] hgv's running .Imagine that in a residential area. Electricity that we use from the National Grid may not be the most environmentally friendly, but it is much more efficiently produced than that produced by cruise liners

 

 

 

And what would be the equivalent of 5000 people running the same power outage be, in say Nottingham? Using coal fired power stations.

These discussions cannot just be one sided.

 

 

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[Eglesbrech]

I preface this comment by saying I no less than nothing about power generation so this may not be useful or feasible. Why don't cruise lines harness renewable energy to at least offset a little of their fuel usage?

 

There is lots of space for solar panels (you could have them on the side or overhang of every balcony and every top surface) and lots of wind at sea for a mini wind turbine. Around here many domestic and commercial properties have solar panels on the roof and Scotland is not well known as the sun capital of the world. Our neighbours who are South facing sell power back into the grid and get an offset from their bill and they have just a small roof panel.

 

There is also a proliferation of mini wind turbines, some of the rural primary schools have them and all of the farmers around here have a couple of the bigger ones.

 

Wave / hydro power would ironically be less easy to utilise.

 

Any lines who goes down that route would have a USP.

[terrierjohn]

I preface this comment by saying I no less than nothing about power generation so this may not be useful or feasible. Why don't cruise lines harness renewable energy to at least offset a little of their fuel usage?

 

There is lots of space for solar panels (you could have them on the side or overhang of every balcony and every top surface) and lots of wind at sea for a mini wind turbine. Around here many domestic and commercial properties have solar panels on the roof and Scotland is not well known as the sun capital of the world. Our neighbours who are South facing sell power back into the grid and get an offset from their bill and they have just a small roof panel.

 

There is also a proliferation of mini wind turbines, some of the rural primary schools have them and all of the farmers around here have a couple of the bigger ones.

 

Wave / hydro power would ironically be less easy to utilise.

 

Any lines who goes down that route would have a USP.

I believe that the solarium roof on Solstice class ships has solar panels.

[CCFC]

RCI's newer ships have solar panels. A wind turbine when the ship is moving is a bit pointless as you are just taking the energy from the engines pushing the ship forward and turning into inefficient electricity.

[scifimonkey]

Most comments on here just show that people have stuck their heads in the sand, of course it is a major problem - talk to the residents that live near the Southampton cruise terminals. The law needs to change to prohibit 3.5% sulphur oils being burnt by cruise ships. Yes it has been reduced in European/US waters to 0.1% which is still 100 times what our cars are allowed to use but in the poorly Caribbean anything goes.

Chanel 4 Dispatches is still available on Catchup or just read http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2017/jul/03/air-on-board-cruise-ships-is-twice-as-bad-as-at-piccadilly-circus

 

 

 

Yup, trust Dispatches and the Guardian to keep taking any opportunity of kicking any aspect of life that they perceive to be the domain of 'rich people'............ It was not aimed at changing the minds of cruisers but entertaining those who are already of a mindset to wish to slag off the lifestyles of people they perceive to be well off.

Its all part of a trend toward journalism that preaches to the converted on both the left and right of the spectrum. Educated and balanced debate is apparently just too difficult.........

There are environmental issues particular to cruising for sure and the industry understands ( for the most part) that it needs to improve, but this kind of skewed journalism, which attempts to present everything in class terms, is not the way to get the message across let alone change behaviours as the responses on this forum clearly illustrate.

 

 

 

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[mercury7289]

Right on!

 

Yawn

[Eglesbrech]

Just heard an article on the Scottish morning news that Napier University have perfected a fuel that is made by using the draff and pot ale left over from whisky distillation. Only 7 percent of the barley etc is used for the spirit so 93 percent of raw materials are left for fuel.

 

It goes straight into the tank of any standard car with no modification required and no polluting particulates (other than perhaps the distinctive whiff of whisky).

 

They are apparently building a plant at Grangemouth to upscale production.

 

Who knows, in years to come ships might be fulled by whisky leftovers.

[bee-ess]

[quote name=Eglesbrech;53473607

 

Who knows' date=' in years to come ships might be fulled by whisky leftovers.[/quote]

 

I don't have any leftovers !!