St Maarten Airport Watching Tragedy

[Karysa]

And that's the real danger. The spectacle, itself. With so many other beaches, St. Maarten doesn't need to be tacitly condoning this activity by taking inadequate measures to preclude it.

 

It's a matter for the local government to decide. Just don't be surprised if they decide to be conservative, as I suggest, rather than take no action as others in this thread have suggested.

 

I would rather have a mature and respectful sharing of opposing perspectives rather than engaging in childish name-calling. Is that okay with you?

 

I know that this was not directed to me but I want to comment on your second paragraph.

 

I think that a Security guard with a German Shepherd patrolling the fence would be a good compromise.

[bUU]

I think that a Security guard with a German Shepherd patrolling the fence would be a good compromise.

Even a lifeguard with a whistle is something.

 

 

 

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[ray98]

I vote for some signs....clearly labeled so reasonable adults take notice of the potential danger of course.

 

Maybe like this....

[Thorncroft]

I vote for some signs....clearly labeled so reasonable adults take notice of the potential danger of course.

 

Maybe like this....

 

It's unreasonable to assume that anyone will read the signs. They need a team of nannies to take people's hands while they lead them away from the danger lurking ominously on the other side of the fence. #thekillingfields

[Karysa]

I vote for some signs....clearly labeled so reasonable adults take notice of the potential danger of course.

 

Maybe like this....

This should be enough but has not been. People still witnessed a violent death while at the beach. A security guard with a German Shepherd just might be enough to stop the chance of this occurring again.

[Thorncroft]

This should be enough but has not been. People still witnessed a violent death while at the beach. A security guard with a German Shepherd just might be enough to stop the chance of this occurring again.

 

Did you see it happen? Was it really violent? That must've been awful. I had just pictured her losing her balance and strikng her head on the concrete lane divider.

[Karysa]

I'm not passionate about the issue. It's sad that someone died while just trying to have fun on vacation. I don't live there, so I don't have a dog in this fight. The island will have to decide what is best for them and I'm pretty sure that they don't care what I think about it either way. Personally I don't think that closing the beach is the answer. It's a major tourist draw. Maybe they'll just ban riding the fence. Maybe they'll remove the concrete median blocks from the roadway, as they're a major trip hazard and likely what caused this tourist's death. Maybe they'll install some sort of air foil system at the end of the runway that directs the jet blast up and over the beach. I don't have the answers. I do harbor resentment towards people who try to tell others what they can and can't do. If they don't like the activity, they can exercise their dissenting opinion by not participating.

 

Furthermore, your implication in the quote below is that if someone disagrees, they're unreasonable. Not exactly the picture of open mindedness that you claim.

 

Originally posted by bUU That is an open question. Reasonable people disagree.

 

The concrete barrier that you mention is a barrier that keeps the sand and sea water from flooding onto the road. This road is the only road in and out of the Beacon Hill neighborhood and it is important that it is open to the residents inparticular and emergency vehicles.

[Thorncroft]

The concrete barrier that you mention is a barrier that keeps the sand and sea water from flooding onto the road. This road is the only road in and out of the Beacon Hill neighborhood and it is important that it is open to the residents inparticular and emergency vehicles.

Actually, I'm referring to the concrete divider down the middle of the road. Is that still there?

 

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[Karysa]

Actually, I'm referring to the concrete divider down the middle of the road. Is that still there?

 

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Yes it was there the last time I was there in Nov 2016. As the conditions of Maho change quite often as those that visit at different times of the year especially can attest to, these concrete dividers or barriers really do help keep this important road open. There are houses, condos and small hotel resorts and car rental businesses and others that use this, the main and only road in and out.

 

It's a very good picture to show why the barriers are there and doesn't leave much to the imagination as to why "fence surfing" at Maho can lead to injury.

 

Thank you for posting it.

[Thorncroft]

 

It's a very good picture to show why the barriers are there and doesn't leave much to the imagination as to why "fence surfing" at Maho can lead to injury.

 

Thank you for posting it.

 

Yeah, I was thinking that the woman probably whacked her head on one or the other and that's what did her in.

 

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[firemanbobswife]

And the picture shows that you have to blatantly disregard the signage, cross 2 lanes of traffic, go over concrete barriers and guard rails to get to the fence. In other words, you are committed to do what you know could be dangerous. You're not simply just going to get hurt out of the blue. You have to willfully make an effort to do so.

[DCLCrazy]

The TMZ article said people on the scene "tried in vain to resuscitate her." The still shot at the top of their article shows someone performing chest compressions on a woman in a yellow top. But the video of the actual incident clearly shows the woman is wearing a red top. And after she hits the concrete barrier, she's seen on her knees & butt sitting upright. The MSN article says she died later at the hospital, which seems to be the case.

 

 

 

I believe the video is from the 2012 incident where the girl survived but the photo of the CPR compressions are of the woman who just died this week. I think the video was to demonstrate to those who don't know about the attraction, what happens and how dumb people can be.

 

 

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[Thorncroft]

And the picture shows that you have to blatantly disregard the signage, cross 2 lanes of traffic, go over concrete barriers and guard rails to get to the fence. In other words, you are committed to do what you know could be dangerous. You're not simply just going to get hurt out of the blue. You have to willfully make an effort to do so.

Yes. You certainly don't find yourself clinging to the fence by accident. It takes a bit of effort to get there.

 

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[ming]

There are consequences to everything, yes?

[ray98]

This should be enough but has not been. People still witnessed a violent death while at the beach. A security guard with a German Shepherd just might be enough to stop the chance of this occurring again.

 

No....it is enough when you understand in the real world you cannot prevent everything. A woman died who willingly put herself in a dangerous situation by ignoring the numerous obstacles and notifications placed to keep her safe. It is tragic for her family but is still such an super anomaly that is shows the precautions are working. You can't always keep people safe from themselves. The hundreds of thousands of visitors to this beach over the decades are proof it take a freak set of circumstances for this to happen.

[Organized Chaos]

We can't place guards everywhere there's danger in the world. At some point, people have to police themselves. As I mentioned before, there are far many more deaths at the Grand Canyon from people falling over the edge than there are at this beach. Two to three per year at the canyon compared to one death in the history of this beach. That's just one example of many. It's a statistic bUU chose to ignore in their call to close this beach. According to that logic, the Grand Canyon should've been made off limits to the public long ago. Mind you, I'm not trying to make this woman's death sound less tragic, because it certainly is. But knee-jerk reactions any time something bad happens somewhere doesn't do us any good.

 

I'd also like to address a point bUU was trying to make in claiming that one's own bias causes us to be unreasonable to the opinions of others. They (sorry, I don't know if it's a man or woman) said firemanbobswife is biased in favor of keeping it open because she's a fan of the beach. So what? Doesn't the fact that bUU would like to see this beach closed make them just as bias? When we hold a particular opinion about something, we lean a certain way about that something. That, by definition, is a bias. It doesn't make someone unreasonable to others' opinions.

[bUU]

Stop presenting your wild ass guesses about what I have "ignored" as if you have the slightest idea what I have and haven't factored in. You don't. Who the heck do you think you are, implying you know what I'm thinking beyond what I have explicitly written?

 

Reasonable people disagree with each other. Why are you so abusively incapable of respectfully granting that? And let's stop this idiotic nonsense you're trying to peddle, that my saying that reasonable people disagree with each other is me saying that other perspectives are unreasonable. If you are going to directly lie about what I'm writing in your responses to my comments, then why even post?

 

It is time to stop with the nonsense. Accept that reasonable people disagree with each other. Just because you don't like the idea of there being action taken to address this most recent tragedy doesn't mean that the opposing perspective is any less valid. Show the kind of respect for opposing perspectives that you want afforded to your perspective in return.

 

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Edited July 16, 2017 by bUU

[Karysa]

Another way to decrease "fence surfing" IF the authorities would like to do this woud be to....Have the larger jets depart over the water instead of over the "mountain" therefore taking the "fence surfing" away for the planes that give the most jet blast and "thrill". I have been on, and have seen large jets take off this way.

[firemanbobswife]

Another way to decrease "fence surfing" IF the authorities would like to do this woud be to....Have the larger jets depart over the water instead of over the "mountain" therefore taking the "fence surfing" away for the planes that give the most jet blast and "thrill". I have been on, and have seen large jets take off this way.

 

I believe it has to do with whatever way the wind is blowing for maximum lift. They wouldn't put hundreds of passenger's lives on the line constantly everyday due to people blatantly ignoring all the things currently in place to keep everyone safe.

[Karysa]

I believe it has to do with whatever way the wind is blowing for maximum lift. They wouldn't put hundreds of passenger's lives on the line constantly everyday due to people blatantly ignoring all the things currently in place to keep everyone safe.

 

 

I was just going to add "conditions permitting".

 

Totally agree that passenger safety is the first priority.

[firemanbobswife]

I was just going to add "conditions permitting".

Totally agree that passenger safety is the first priority.

 

So I don't think that will happen any different than it does right now. The people on the aircraft come first and taking into consideration the knuckleheads that want to climb over barriers shouldn't even be a thought.

 

One person out of hundreds of thousands maybe even more are pretty darn good odds. Zero people died that weren't doing something they KNEW they shouldn't have been and intentionally circumvented safety measures.

[Thorncroft]

Installing these at the end of the runway would deflect the jet blast away from the fence and may even give the planes additional thrust for take off. They can be retracted for landings. How's that for a positive solution that doesn't involve draconian rules being placed on the public?

 

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[Hlitner]

Another way to decrease "fence surfing" IF the authorities would like to do this woud be to....Have the larger jets depart over the water instead of over the "mountain" therefore taking the "fence surfing" away for the planes that give the most jet blast and "thrill". I have been on, and have seen large jets take off this way.

 

You obviously are not a pilot :). The direction used by the aircraft is simply based on the wind direction at the time of takeoff or landing. In Aruba the prevailing winds are almost always from a westerly direction and can actually be pretty strong. Aircraft must take off into the wind which means they will have their rear end facing Maho. If the wind happens to change direction, then the operational runway direction also changes. It is a matter of safety. Taking off downwind can be a very dangerous practice.

 

As we have posted elsewhere, it is possible for the Airport Authority to purchase and erect a jetblast barrier (these are routinely used at many airports all over the world). Why this has not been done...would be the subject of a NTSB investigation in the USA. But in St Maarten....who knows.

 

We should add that while the fence holders are insanely risking their life...those who are on the beach side of the road and stand behind the jet exhaust of a departing plane are also at great risk. Consider a small pebble (or larger rock) that happens to be sitting on the road (or nearby). The jet exhaust catches that item (in the air force we called it "FOD") and accelerates it at a very high rate of speed (like a bullet). If you happen to be watching that plane take off, that little pebble could easily take out your eye....or even kill. And yes, there have been numerous injuries (over the years) on Maho from just this type event. Watching a landing is a lot safer....but in the event that the pilot has to execute an unexpected go around....all bets are off. I would not even want to speculate what a full thrust go-around...and just the wrong angle and altitude could do to those watching from Maho.

Hank

Edited July 16, 2017 by Hlitner

[Karysa]

Installing these at the end of the runway would deflect the jet blast away from the fence and may even give the planes additional thrust for take off. They can be retracted for landings. How's that for a positive solution that doesn't involve draconian rules being placed on the public?

 

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So much more fun thinking of the Security guard with the German Shepherd and when someone approaches the fence the crowd jeering "Release the Hound!"

[firemanbobswife]

Installing these at the end of the runway would deflect the jet blast away from the fence and may even give the planes additional thrust for take off. They can be retracted for landings. How's that for a positive solution that doesn't involve draconian rules being placed on the public?

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I say give the people the ride they paid for and go ahead and install the whole package. Catapults!