Is it time carnival goes mega ship?

[Cyber Kat]

I'm confused. What did you mean by, "frankly I could care less".

 

Well perhaps if you didn't take it out of context you wouldn't be confused. What I said was "As for the "mass Market," frankly I could care less. I'm not interested in what the mass market wants." It's a common expression sometimes written as I couldn't care less. Perhaps I need to rephrase it ... As for the "mass Market," frankly I don't give a rat's a**. I'm not interested in what the mass market wants. Does this work for you? SMH!

[Cyber Kat]

No, I wish they'd make a smaller ship for a more intimate experience.

 

Sadly, that's not going to happen with Carnival or the other main stream lines. You have to go further afield and pay more for that, I'm afraid. With the possible exception of the Pride - which we do enjoy - we will be doing most of our sailing with Viking in the future.

[bUU]

So you are interested in what the market but you don't care what the market wants. Okay.

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[Cyber Kat]

Then why do you sail Carnival? Lol. What exactly do you think the Carnival ships are?

 

I have been sailing on the Pride - which is pretty much not even close to mega-ship like the Oasis. We have one cruise on the Sunshine because we wanted to go to Canada and hadn't yet discovered what a pleasure sailing with Viking would be. Now that we know better, that's what we will be doing.

[Cyber Kat]

That's the question that rarely gets answered. Maybe, for some, within the answer are hard truths that they don't want to acknowledge. Who knows?

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

Asked and answered.

[bUU]

Asked and answered.

Not sailing on Carnival. Understood. Let me express my appreciation for your reply. As alluded to earlier, others have been much more reticent to be so forthcoming.

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[Cyber Kat]

One thing I have learned by reading this thread. It's just BNBR telling everyone else their opinions don't matter.

 

Some people just like Carnival's layouts. They like the lower prices. Easy answers. Not everyone is the same. Opinions are a personal choice.

 

Can we please stop with trying to convince everyone that only one person's opinion is allowable?

 

Thank you for saying this! I thought I was the only one who noticed - and there are a few who seem to think we are all entitled to their opinion. I speak only for myself, but I have encountered many who do not like the mega ships and prefer a smaller more intimate experience without all the bells and whistles.

 

We do like the Pride. It's a lovely ship with a good layout, nice adults only Serenity with a pool (at least for now) and the port is within driving distance so it works for a quick getaway. We have sailed on the Splendor and that's about my limit as far as number of passengers. I do not want to be sailing with 5000 of my closest friends ;p

 

Price is not high on my list of consideration when choosing a cruise, so we are able to move on.

[Cyber Kat]

There is no money to be made in building smaller ships. Carnival will either get on board or get left behind. My next cruise will be on Oasis out of PC. She is finally affordable and Ive been wanting to get on one of those ships since the first time I saw the artist rendition

 

Tell that to Viking!

[FLSteve11]

Im sure that 939.00 pp is for a neighborhood balcony but even though I havent checked, I doubt their oceanview balconies are as expensive as on Magic.

 

Probably, the CP and BW balconies are almost always cheaper then the outside ones.

[FLSteve11]

Tell that to Viking!

 

Slight correction then, and I think you already know it. There is no real money to be made in making smaller, mass market ships. The luxury lines can do it because they pay a much higher premium for people to sail in the same amount of space. They're not even remotely in the same category as Carnival, RCCL, NCL, or even the premium lines (like Celebrity, HAL, Princess).

[bUU]

I speak only for myself, but I have encountered many who do not like the mega ships and prefer a smaller more intimate experience without all the bells and whistles.

Everyone is entitled to their own preferences. Absolutely. No question about that. And everyone's preferences are equally valid. I haven't seen anyone say anything to the contrary, but in case anyone has, let's be clear that they're in the wrong. Having said that, it is important to acknowledge that BNBR is not talking about that. BNBR is talking about something completely separate: What the industry and the cruise line is going to offer and how. And that's a reflection of what CCL and RCL and the rest have said, what they have done and what they are doing. Carnival has two Vista-class ships on order, and two 180,000 GT ships on order. The ships they've sold most recently were 46,000-47,000 GT. They haven't built a ship less than 100,000 GT since before the turn of the century.

 

Tell that to Viking!

Indeed. ryano is way off there. What would be correct to say is that there is no business case for a mainline mass market cruise line buying or building a smaller ship. Smaller ships is a feature of boutique and upscale cruise lines.

[Cyber Kat]

So you are interested in what the market but you don't care what the market wants. Okay.

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

Nope - not at all interested in the mass market, nor am I interested in what that market wants. I'm here for the popcorn and to watch the train wreck. It's rather entertaining.

[FLSteve11]

Thank you for saying this! I thought I was the only one who noticed - and there are a few who seem to think we are all entitled to their opinion. I speak only for myself, but I have encountered many who do not like the mega ships and prefer a smaller more intimate experience without all the bells and whistles.

 

We do like the Pride. It's a lovely ship with a good layout, nice adults only Serenity with a pool (at least for now) and the port is within driving distance so it works for a quick getaway. We have sailed on the Splendor and that's about my limit as far as number of passengers. I do not want to be sailing with 5000 of my closest friends ;p

 

Price is not high on my list of consideration when choosing a cruise, so we are able to move on.

 

Very true. There is nothing wrong with liking smaller, more intimate ships. It's just not the direction the main mass-market lines are going. For more then one reason, but mainly it's for financial reasons (can make much more per ship with more people on it), and for the wants of it's primary customers, which are now generally familes, active people, and those who want to do more then relax. Not that you can't do that, but it's not the main focus. Those who want those, will then naturally go looking to another line that meets there needs more. Which is great, that's why there are multiple lines doing varying things. You're heading to Viking, which is a smart choice if that's what you're looking for in a cruise and can afford it.

 

For those who want a low-cost, small ship, they'll then have to look at lesser lines. At some point there will probably be some ultra-low cost, small ship cruise lines that will move in. The budget-motels of the cruies world, it's just not profitable for them yet, and possibly may never be depending on regulations. Most people who want low cost are generally those who don't mind how big the ship is, so long as you can still relax on it.

[bUU]

For those who want a low-cost, small ship, they'll then have to look at lesser lines.

Are there such options? My spouse considers 100,000 GT to be "way too small" but if that weren't the case, is there actually a cruise line that could match the price we're paying for our Western Caribbean cruise, in a balcony cabin, but on a small ship?

[tiggedytiggs]

I despise the bigger ships. Even Fantasy-class is too big for my tastes. My all-time favorite ships were NCL's "little white ships," 700 passengers max.

 

I actually like this idea. Instead of bigger boats there could be smaller, more luxurious, creative cruise ships and adults only ones wouldn't be bad either. European river cruises have this market covered but should expand more to the seas.

 

 

The only reason mega ships really exist, in my opinion, are for the families and giving everyone of all ages something to do without everyone being crowded in a few areas. I couldnt possibly cover everything in 7 days on Allure but I appreciated all of the areas they had so that you didnt feel you were in over crowded pools or theaters. Ice skating rinks, the aqua theater, zip lines, and rock climbing walls, flow riders are all for families and adult thrill seekers. I love the central park and board walk areas of the Oasis class ships because those are places to go sit and relax. It wouldnt be all bad to me to have a very creative small or midsize ship with an interior courtyard, interior balcony rooms, and nice amenities. Adults really do want to have those places to get away from kids on ships besides bars, especially ones on a couples trips (Thats why I seek all inclusive vacays with adults only resorts ) The Solarium in the oasis class is great, why cant carnival do something like this instead of Serenity which is just a closed off area of lounge chairs and 2 spas. But it would be nice of a cruise line to get more creative with ships. I dont think we need bigger boats, just more creative ones.

[Cyber Kat]

Slight correction then, and I think you already know it. There is no real money to be made in making smaller, mass market ships. The luxury lines can do it because they pay a much higher premium for people to sail in the same amount of space. They're not even remotely in the same category as Carnival, RCCL, NCL, or even the premium lines (like Celebrity, HAL, Princess).

 

Perhaps - I don't claim to be a marketing expert like some in this discussion seem to think they are.

 

I don't know about other luxury lines because I haven't researched them, but a comparison of the Carnival Pride - which is not a huge ship - shows:

Carnival Pride

Tonnage: 88,500 GT Length: 963 ft (294 m) Beam: 106 ft (32 m) Draft: 25.5 ft (7.8 m) Decks: 12 decks

Viking Sea

Tonnage: 47,800 GT Length: 227.20 m (745.4 ft) Beam: 28.80 m (94.5 ft) Draught: 6.30 m (20.7 ft) Decks: 14

So the Viking Sea is considerably smaller - so not the same amount of space. It carries 930 passengers, while the Pride holds 2124.

 

The Viking experience is what you pay for - as well all that extra space.

 

I know fully well that Carnival, RCCI and NCL are not in that category - just saying that it is an option, for us anyway, and it's an experience we prefer going forward. And definitely an experience we prefer over an Oasis type ship. I also fully realize that it's not for everyone, but to hear some tell it their preference is the ONLY option out there.

 

We do a lot of traveling and have 1 Carnival cruise, 1 Viking Ocean cruise, 1 Viking river cruise and a fly in and stay trip to Bermuda booked.

[FLSteve11]

Are there such options? My spouse considers 100,000 GT to be "way too small" but if that weren't the case, is there actually a cruise line that could match the price we're paying for our Western Caribbean cruise, in a balcony cabin, but on a small ship?

 

At some point there will be. I would think P&O has smaller, older ships. Celebration has a small older ship in West Palm (though does 2-night cruises mainly). Right now the mass market lines still have relatively small ships (Fantasy Class on Carnival, Vision on RCCL, Sky on NCL) in good supply that are not mega-class. These ships are still in the 70k size. And then a whole other class in the 90k range through many lines. So it's very hard for them to compete. Once those are gone, it's likely that a couple of low cost budget lines will move in, like Celebration is trying to do. And they may never go, there are certainly ports that won't work for larger ships, and at the least the 90k class of ships will stick around for awhile.

[Warm Breezes]

Very cool! I finally booked NCL (my first) next year. We are doing Escape. I can't wait to try a new ship as I'm in the "enjoy something new" camp.

 

Your concerns about Oasis are probably the biggest reason why some don't like it. Notably many of the public spaces do not have a lot of ocean views (or any at all). I wouldn't let that stop you from trying it, you'll still enjoy Allure, but you may find it's not your preference long term. We get an ocean balcony so I get plenty of ocean views. The pool decks, buffet, sports area, boardwalk, and especially the solarium has outstanding ocean views. The bars/restaurants/casino on the interior areas have basically no view of the ocean at all.

 

Your comment about the walking was kind of funny. I'm taking my mother on Harmony in October and she was worried about all the walking. We just had this conversation yesterday. She has been on smaller ships. Most cruise ships seem to be in the 1000' length range. Some slightly less, some a bit more like 1,200 feet. The bigger ships are generally just taller and wider. On a ship like Oasis, unless you are going to the boardwalk or sports zone (the aft neighborhoods), the general "length" of the ship you would be walking during your normal walks out and about is actually similar to a ship like Conquest. I didn't find myself feeling like I'm walking any more on the megaship vs the smaller ships.

 

I find it interesting that DH found Epic "too big" and took longer to walk from one side to the other. I'm wondering if it was more of an illusion and mental thing? Convince yourself the ship is so much bigger so those long walks down the hallways "feels" longer? The ship is only 100' longer than Conquest which isn't all that much distance in practical terms.

 

The "too big" was his opinion based on our experience. I won't change his opinion or try to minimalize it. It is his opinion. I think some of it had to do with us going over Christmas time too and the ship was packed. I'm hoping for a different feel on the Escape since we are going mid-September. He does like the feeling of knowing where he is. He never got that feeling on the Epic. He always felt lost. He has really loved our trips on Freedom, Glory, Splendor, and Dream....mostly because the lay out became familiar to him after our 8 day Freedom cruise. The Escape makes him nervous again because of its size. Hopefully the layout will be a little familiar to him since we sailed on Epic. What will really help him is the UBP promo we got ;p. Maybe it will help him forget how lost he is :D.

[FLSteve11]

I actually like this idea. Instead of bigger boats there could be smaller, more luxurious, creative cruise ships and adults only ones wouldn't be bad either. European river cruises have this market covered but should expand more to the seas.

 

 

The only reason mega ships really exist, in my opinion, are for the families and giving everyone of all ages something to do without everyone being crowded in a few areas. I couldnt possibly cover everything in 7 days on Allure but I appreciated all of the areas they had so that you didnt feel you were in over crowded pools or theaters. Ice skating rinks, the aqua theater, zip lines, and rock climbing walls, flow riders are all for families and adult thrill seekers. I love the central park and board walk areas of the Oasis class ships because those are places to go sit and relax. It wouldnt be all bad to me to have a very creative small or midsize ship with an interior courtyard, interior balcony rooms, and nice amenities. Adults really do want to have those places to get away from kids on ships besides bars, especially ones on a couples trips (Thats why I seek all inclusive vacays with adults only resorts ) The Solarium in the oasis class is great, why cant carnival do something like this instead of Serenity which is just a closed off area of lounge chairs and 2 spas. But it would be nice of a cruise line to get more creative with ships. I dont think we need bigger boats, just more creative ones.

 

I think what you're talking about is something like Windstar Cruises (go check them out, it's pretty much what you are talking about). They're out there. It's just that their price point means they only make a limited number of people who can afford it, and being smaller less people sail so you hear less of them. So you hear less of those lines.

 

Yes, Megaships biggest selling points is many different activities for multi-generational groups (families primarily), and for those who want many different things to do. The other point on the business side is economy of scale. They can make more money from more people being on one ship.

 

Carnival is starting to get into that though, starting mainly with the Dream class and expanding with the Vista. It will be interesting to see if the 180k ships are another expansion of things onboard. I suspect there will be, since that's the trend on all lines like it.

[FLSteve11]

The "too big" was his opinion based on our experience. I won't change his opinion or try to minimalize it. It is his opinion. I think some of it had to do with us going over Christmas time too and the ship was packed. I'm hoping for a different feel on the Escape since we are going mid-September. He does like the feeling of knowing where he is. He never got that feeling on the Epic. He always felt lost. He has really loved our trips on Freedom, Glory, Splendor, and Dream....mostly because the lay out became familiar to him after our 8 day Freedom cruise. The Escape makes him nervous again because of its size. Hopefully the layout will be a little familiar to him since we sailed on Epic. What will really help him is the UBP promo we got ;p. Maybe it will help him forget how lost he is :D.

 

You know, I'll agree with your husband a little. The Epic for some reason just FEELS long. I think it's mainly because the two main elevator banks seem to be set fairly far to the bank and front. So there is a long way between the elevators in the middle. Then there is no real breakup of the deck afterwards, particularly going through casino which stretches much of the deck. Other ships (using Oasis again as an example) have their elevators more centrally located to each other, so it's not as long a walk from the elevators to another one or the ends.

[Cyber Kat]

Everyone is entitled to their own preferences. Absolutely. No question about that. And everyone's preferences are equally valid. I haven't seen anyone say anything to the contrary, but in case anyone has, let's be clear that they're in the wrong.

 

You - and more so BNBR - have spent numerous posts trying to convince those who said they choose not to sail on the Oasis that they are wrong and that it's the best thing afloat. And quite often including little digs to denigrate the other person's opinion/preferences.

 

I'm referring to posts #7, #12, #25. #36, #40, #48, #67, #68, #69, #72, #82, #86, #105 There are more but I'm up to page 7 and getting bored.

 

So while you say that "everyone's preferences are equally valid." It's clear from what you write that this is not the case.

 

I get it - you love the Oasis and ships like that. Enjoy sailing on them. I and many others will not be joining you because that's not the experience we seek. I have no problem with change, but some changes I see as for the better - for me, personally. When that happens, I explore alternative options.

 

The 2 of you, and perhaps others, seem to be convinced that Carnival is doomed if they don't follow suit. Perhaps this is true, but Carnival seems to be doing something right, so I'll leave that decision up to them. It has no effect on me whatsoever.

 

I'm done here. The popcorn is all gone and I have better things to do. I'll leave you the last word. I'm sure you'll take it.

[sammee]

Thank you for saying this! I thought I was the only one who noticed - and there are a few who seem to think we are all entitled to their opinion. I speak only for myself, but I have encountered many who do not like the mega ships and prefer a smaller more intimate experience without all the bells and whistles.

 

We do like the Pride. It's a lovely ship with a good layout, nice adults only Serenity with a pool (at least for now) and the port is within driving distance so it works for a quick getaway. We have sailed on the Splendor and that's about my limit as far as number of passengers. I do not want to be sailing with 5000 of my closest friends ;p

 

Price is not high on my list of consideration when choosing a cruise, so we are able to move on.

 

Will be my 3rd time next year on Pride. It perfect size for me and easy to drive to. I'd rather to go to Baltimore than NYC any day even though NYC is only an hour for me. I wouldn't turn down a bigger ship, but I wouldn't go out of my way either.

[Aquahound]

I think they might hold more people though, or about the same amount. Not saying that's a good thing though. More people on a smaller ship.

 

Bingo. That's the thing that's been on my mind since this thread started. CCL's tendency is to pack in the passengers. I'm not in favor of them going mega-ship if they're not going to match or beat Oasis Class' space to passenger ratio. At full capacity, CCL's new LNG ships will have a ratio that dips down into the 20s, which is about the worst I've ever seen.

[BNBR]

The "too big" was his opinion based on our experience. I won't change his opinion or try to minimalize it. It is his opinion. I think some of it had to do with us going over Christmas time too and the ship was packed. I'm hoping for a different feel on the Escape since we are going mid-September. He does like the feeling of knowing where he is. He never got that feeling on the Epic. He always felt lost. He has really loved our trips on Freedom, Glory, Splendor, and Dream....mostly because the lay out became familiar to him after our 8 day Freedom cruise. The Escape makes him nervous again because of its size. Hopefully the layout will be a little familiar to him since we sailed on Epic. What will really help him is the UBP promo we got ;p. Maybe it will help him forget how lost he is :D.

 

I'm not sure if you write reviews, but I'll keep a lookout for your thoughts on Escape. We are going with a haven spa suite on our cruise. I like the idea of the ship within a ship - so you don't really need to go out and do much if you just want to relax in the haven/spa areas. We'll see how that actually pans out.

[Warm Breezes]

I liked Escape more then Epic (and more then Breakaway, though they're similar really. Escape is just a larger version of Breakaway with a few more things on it). I thought the crew on it were wonderful, and did a lot for us. Epic was probably the smokiest ship I've been on, due to the casino running down most of one deck with the open air atriums. Escape/Breakaway has a similar thing, but either there were less smokers, or they did a better job with it. Make sure to do the Brat Pack show, it was a lot of fun. (The After Midnight..well..you really need to like Cotton Club type music. It was enjoyable for about 30-45 minutes and then we couldn't wait for it to end).

 

We had a lousy time on the Fantasy, might be our worst cruise. It was unusual for a Carnival cruise in that there just wasn't much to do, lacked the activities you normally see, food was not that great. I call that a 1-off bad cruise not a Carnival thing. Hopefully they've changed things around a little in the past year.

 

As for the others, Oasis class (and Disney Dream class) are probably my two favorites in terms of ship classes, but it's hard to beat an11-night cruise over a 7-night :) If it's in colder seasons, realize the first and last day you might not get much outdoor time, but still things to do.

 

Thanks for you input. Every thing I have read on the Escape has really made me look forward to sailing on her...and I agree the Epic was pretty smoky but I'm kind of sensitive to the smoke and have felt that way about almost every ship casino except on the elegant nights on Princess where it was smoke free. I'm looking forward to the shows on the Escape. My DD was a competitive dancer for 9 years so I am used to, and like, almost all styles of music though we find ourselves critiquing a lot of the dancing in the shows out of habit :o.

 

As for the Fantasy we got a great casino deal on it. We paid less than 1/4 what we are paying for our NCL Escape cruise so I am going into that with much different expectations. While we are expecting the better entertainment and hopefully better food (since we have 4 SDP for one of our promo's) on Escape we are happy with less entertainment and good food on Carnival for the price we paid. I'm thinking our Fantasy cruise will be our restful/relaxing cruise and NCL will be our drinking and partying cruise (we have UBP for our other promo). We have no trouble enjoying either type of cruise.

 

Someday we will do the RCL Oasis class...may not be next year as the 11 night Breakaway looks really good to me. We sailed out of NY to Canada last year on our anniversary in October on CCL Sunshine. We got really lucky and hit Indian Summer. It was in the upper 80's on our sail away and many people were caught with just colder weather gear and lugging around sweat shirts and jackets, while in long sleeves, and sweating away. Luckily I was watching the weather and threw in some much lighter clothes for us. I was sitting out on the Serenity Deck in my Swimsuit :cool: .It was a different story on our way back into port so we are well aware of the what the weather can do that time of year.

 

As for the Disney Dream class, that won't be on our radar until we have grand kids to spoil. While we loved the Disney Magic and Wonder our kids were between the ages of 4 and 10 when we sailed them. The perfect age to get the most out of the Disney experience. I have a real hard time paying the Disney premium without the kids to share it with. Maybe in another 10 years or so :D.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Warm Breezes