Mayday Mayday!!!

[bEwAbG]

Didn't take long for someone to ask if the shipwrecked people (who must have wondered if they would be dying on that boat) would be getting something for free that they themselves had to pay for. Let's see....they probably should also have to reimburse every paying passenger for the little side trip and possible delay arriving at the next port. And let's add in a little penalty depending upon whether most think they were adequately prepared before they even embarked on their journey.

 

Interesting reading of what was actually said.

[Flatbush Flyer]

Didn't take long for someone to ask if the shipwrecked people (who must have wondered if they would be dying on that boat) would be getting something for free that they themselves had to pay for. Let's see....they probably should also have to reimburse every paying passenger for the little side trip and possible delay arriving at the next port. And let's add in a little penalty depending upon whether most think they were adequately prepared before they even embarked on their journey.

 

 

 

You're mixing up two different issues.

 

Folks in distress were rescued. Bravo! They get a free ride and terrific treatment until the next port where authorities are available to deal with them.

 

Same folks may have stolen the boat AND/OR knew zip about ocean sailing and basic maritime rules and equipment requirements which, in turn, endangered the lives of others (particularly anyone who came to their assistance). Sorry, but there are consequences for that side of the equation.

 

 

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[chengkp75]

Didn't take long for someone to ask if the shipwrecked people (who must have wondered if they would be dying on that boat) would be getting something for free that they themselves had to pay for. Let's see....they probably should also have to reimburse every paying passenger for the little side trip and possible delay arriving at the next port. And let's add in a little penalty depending upon whether most think they were adequately prepared before they even embarked on their journey.

 

I could give a rat's behind about what the people on the cruise thought about the rescue. As a professional mariner, who has been involved in these types of rescues before, what burns my butt is the fact that there is a strong possibility that the crew that went down in that lifeboat risked their lives (if you don't think that using a lifeboat is dangerous, talk to the crew on the NCL ship that had the rescue boat accident, in port, where crew were killed when the falls parted and the boat dropped) deploying a lifeboat in the open ocean to "save" someone who's basic stupidity put them out there in the first place. Accidents involving lifeboats are the second leading cause of injuries and death to merchant mariners. I've also worked with the USCG, lo these many, many years ago, and learned that the vast majority of "rescues" are caused by the incompetence and stupidity of the rescued. Yet these people, both the crew of the Celebrity ship and all governmental SAR personnel, all around the world, will go out and save these people from their stupidity without thought and without reward. I would think these "saved" people should feel a sense of gratitude to these heroes, and perhaps offer a reward.

[Flatbush Flyer]

I could give a rat's behind about what the people on the cruise thought about the rescue. As a professional mariner, who has been involved in these types of rescues before, what burns my butt is the fact that there is a strong possibility that the crew that went down in that lifeboat risked their lives (if you don't think that using a lifeboat is dangerous, talk to the crew on the NCL ship that had the rescue boat accident, in port, where crew were killed when the falls parted and the boat dropped) deploying a lifeboat in the open ocean to "save" someone who's basic stupidity put them out there in the first place. Accidents involving lifeboats are the second leading cause of injuries and death to merchant mariners. I've also worked with the USCG, lo these many, many years ago, and learned that the vast majority of "rescues" are caused by the incompetence and stupidity of the rescued. Yet these people, both the crew of the Celebrity ship and all governmental SAR personnel, all around the world, will go out and save these people from their stupidity without thought and without reward. I would think these "saved" people should feel a sense of gratitude to these heroes, and perhaps offer a reward.

 

 

Not the same as a rescue but still noteworthy as a reminder of the dangers of maritime work:

 

It's been about a decade but it is hard to forget the tragic death of Dave Lyman, a Honolulu harbor pilot and great friend of the California Maritime Academy.

http://www.professionalmariner.com/February-2007/Hawaii-pilot-dies-after-falling-between-ship-and-pilot-boat/

 

 

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[BosoxI]

I can't imagine what it must be like to be drifting around the seas with no supplies wondering what will happen. :)

 

Try reading the book In Harm's Way" which recounts the experiences of the crew of the USS Indianapolis which was torpedoed in the South Pacific late in WWII. Just simply terrifying from burns, drownings, thirst and hunger, sunburn, oil inhalation and finally shark attacks.

[fshagan]

First time I've seen a cat schooner rig.

 

Me too ... plenty of cat ketch rigs, but I haven't seen that one before.

[fshagan]

Do worry- plenty of modern pirates- some of them quite crafty too!

Again I recommend: The Outlaw Sea by William Langewiesche

 

Or just watch "Captain Phillips" starring Tom Hanks and those lovable pirates. Not sure how accurate it was in the maritime details, but even cruise ships have precautions to take today. By convention or law they can't be armed, so it's hard to defend the ship against determined pirates.

[chengkp75]

Or just watch "Captain Phillips" starring Tom Hanks and those lovable pirates. Not sure how accurate it was in the maritime details, but even cruise ships have precautions to take today. By convention or law they can't be armed, so it's hard to defend the ship against determined pirates.

 

Don't get me started on "Captain Phillips".

 

Actually, it is up to the individual flag states to determine whether or not merchant ships or cruise ships can carry arms. Of the major cruise lines, neither the Bahamas, Panama, nor Malta prohibit arms onboard their ships. Arms are declared on the ship's customs declaration when entering port, and if the port state has laws prohibiting arms on ships, then the arms will need to be secured while in that nation's waters. Even those flag states that prohibit arms on their ships will generally allow armed security teams with an application to the government.

 

If arms are on a cruise ship (or any ship for that matter) will be a closely held secret as outlined in the VSP (Vessel Security Plan), which is such a highly restricted document that typically only the Captain has access to it, and knowledge of the entire plan. Even senior officers onboard like the Staff Captain and Security Officer will only be instructed in those parts of the plan that those officers need to know to fulfill their roles in the plan.

[fshagan]

Don't get me started on "Captain Phillips".

 

I was hoping you would chime in! At the time of the movie I remember reading that cargo ships either were prohibited from carrying arms or by convention didn't carry arms because, you know, we wouldn't want armed crews entering our ports either (actually, I wouldn't begrudge a professional mariner weapons at all, but many would).

 

 

Actually, it is up to the individual flag states to determine whether or not merchant ships or cruise ships can carry arms. Of the major cruise lines, neither the Bahamas, Panama, nor Malta prohibit arms onboard their ships. Arms are declared on the ship's customs declaration when entering port, and if the port state has laws prohibiting arms on ships, then the arms will need to be secured while in that nation's waters. Even those flag states that prohibit arms on their ships will generally allow armed security teams with an application to the government.

 

If arms are on a cruise ship (or any ship for that matter) will be a closely held secret as outlined in the VSP (Vessel Security Plan), which is such a highly restricted document that typically only the Captain has access to it, and knowledge of the entire plan. Even senior officers onboard like the Staff Captain and Security Officer will only be instructed in those parts of the plan that those officers need to know to fulfill their roles in the plan.

 

That makes a lot more sense than what I have read in the media. The only surprise to me is that the Staff Captain and Security Officer would not know the entire plan. I don't know the order of succession on board should the Master become incapacitated, but I thought the Staff Captain held a Master's license and was fully qualified to be in charge (and was therefore the second in command).

 

My understanding is you are compelled to render assistance at sea under maritime law and can only refuse to assist if doing so puts your people or vessel in danger. A professional Master will be able to make those judgments easily enough, but I'm not sure most pleasure cruisers could make that determination.

[chengkp75]

I was hoping you would chime in! At the time of the movie I remember reading that cargo ships either were prohibited from carrying arms or by convention didn't carry arms because, you know, we wouldn't want armed crews entering our ports either (actually, I wouldn't begrudge a professional mariner weapons at all, but many would).

 

 

 

 

That makes a lot more sense than what I have read in the media. The only surprise to me is that the Staff Captain and Security Officer would not know the entire plan. I don't know the order of succession on board should the Master become incapacitated, but I thought the Staff Captain held a Master's license and was fully qualified to be in charge (and was therefore the second in command).

 

My understanding is you are compelled to render assistance at sea under maritime law and can only refuse to assist if doing so puts your people or vessel in danger. A professional Master will be able to make those judgments easily enough, but I'm not sure most pleasure cruisers could make that determination.

 

Even US vessels are allowed to carry arms, provided they are .50 caliber and below!

 

Yes, the Staff Captain is a licensed Master, and fully capable of taking command, and when he does, he would be allowed to access the Captain's safe, where the VSP is kept, and learn the entire plan. This way, if the Staff Captain were taken hostage, he would not know the "distress" code words or actions the Captain can take to show that he is acting under duress.

 

Yes, a vessel is obliged to render assistance if there has been a distress signal (of any sort). This is why when you come across a raft/home-made boat full of refugees, the USCG will tell you not to take the refugees onboard unless they are in danger of sinking and loss of life. The Master determines whether he can provide assistance, as you say, provided he does not create significant risk to his crew, cargo (passengers), and vessel. Most merchant ships are quite inadequate to handle rescues like this except in very calm seas. Retreival of a lifeboat in the open ocean is one of the most dangerous tasks that a mariner faces, and results in many serious injuries and amputations.