Tipping for Children

[big_duck]

This does not make sense to me. Let us say the cruise costs $2000 and the recommended tip is $140. Are you saying people can afford $2000 plus a recommended tip of $140 but cannot afford a cruise of $2140 and a recommended tip of zero?

 

There are lines that discourage tipping. They pay their staff well, and their staff is expected to provide a service for that salary. IMO the cruise is sold the way it is because it benefits the cruise lines. They can sell a $2140 cruise for $2000 by not including the service people in that figure. Yet the passengers are expected to pay the service people. What is wrong with charging $2140 for the cruise so everyone gets paid? IMO the reason this is not done is because then the cruise sounds more expensive.

 

Why is gas sold for $2.349 per gal instead of $2.35 per gal? Because people just read $2.34 and that sounds like it is less than $2.35. The cruise lines are doing the same thing the gas stations are doing, trying to make their product look less expensive than it really is.

 

If the cruise lines were to pick up the tab for decent salaries, the price of the cruise would be more, but the total cost to the passenger would not change one bit.

 

If the cruiselines did that then service levels would drop to the level of what is required to keep my job because the service staff would have little or no incentive to operate above that level.

 

As for the gas, at 2.349, you would save a penny for every 10 gals bought, so I will buy 20 gals and put in my 2 cents. :D

[Cuizer2]

Your math on the cost is fine, again, being in a service industry there are two approaches.

 

1. You train and train and train your staff to provide a level of service that is required by the company and you pay them salary to do so.

 

2. You train and motivate your staff to provide a level of service that is required by the company by making part of their salary dependent upon that service in the form of a tip.

 

Number 1 is very costly and requires much more managment oversight (read additional $$$) than number 2. I don't think you will find one of those "no-tipping cruises" in the price range of even the $2140 carnival cruise - if you do, please cite the example here, I would like to see it myself!!!

Heaven forbid that management might have to leave their cabin and make sure the people they supervise are actually doing their job. The passengers should not have to supervise the staff - that is management's job.

 

When is the last time you tip the local police for providing a good service. When is the last time you tipped your doctor for providing good service. When is the last time you tipped the person who delivers your mail for providing good service. When is the last time you tipped your mechanic for providing good service. When is the last time you tipped the plumber for providing good service. Do you send something extra to your ISP for providing good service? Do you send a little extra to your phone company for providing good service?

 

Why is it we tip the taxi driver for getting us from point A to point B, but not the airline pilot. How come the ship's captain does not get a tip? Do you tip the cook who made the dessert that was so good you had to order seconds? Do you think the cook works any less hard than your waiter or cabin steward? Why are we expected to tip people for doing their job?

 

I find I get the best service from the people who are not looking at me for a tip. I find I get the best service from people who take pride in doing a good job. What is wrong with people being paid to do a good job and then doing a good job? What is wrong with expecting management to do their job, which includes supervision? Why do the passengers have to supervise the service people?

 

Did you receive clean sheets? Did you tip the laundry people? Was the ship well maintained? Did you tip the maintance people?

 

If someone slipped me a $20 and said thank you, I would (and have) reported it as a bribe. I am paid to do a job, and I try to do the best I can, not because I am hoping for a tip, but because that is what I am paid to do. And because I have done my job fairly well, I am paid enough to afford to take a cruise.

 

I don't like having to tip people to do their job. I understand they need the tips to survive, so I do tip. I have always received at least average service (on the cruise ships) so I have always given at least the recommended tip (sometime more). I cannot say the samething about land based restaurants. Sometimes the people were running around so much with their hand out they forgot to bring me my food (which was cold when I got it) or my drink. So, my tips on cruise ships have been from 100% (average service) to 150% (made to feel special) of the recommended amount. In restaurants my tips have ranged from zero (service was so bad I never went back) to 33% (service was so good it was like I was the only one there).

[Cuizer2]

If the cruiselines did that then service levels would drop to the level of what is required to keep my job because the service staff would have little or no incentive to operate above that level.

 

As for the gas, at 2.349, you would save a penny for every 10 gals bought, so I will buy 20 gals and put in my 2 cents. :D

 

I disagree. The lines that are best known for their service discourage tipping. The service staff are paid well to provide good service. I see that the lines that are rated the best are also the ones that discourage tipping. The best service does not come from someone looking for a tip, but rather someone who is happy and takes pride in their job.

 

Why do you assume these people would not also take pride in doing a good job? Those who do the best job get promoted. Most poeple do a good job without receiving tips. Besides, what is wrong with setting a minimum level of service that is good?

[Cuizer2]

Speaking of service, why are there so many double posts on this board? I only clicked on the submit button once.

[GoinCruisin]

When is the last time you tip the local police for providing a good service. When is the last time you tipped your doctor for providing good service. When is the last time you tipped the person who delivers your mail for providing good service. When is the last time you tipped your mechanic for providing good service. When is the last time you tipped the plumber for providing good service. Do you send something extra to your ISP for providing good service? Do you send a little extra to your phone company for providing good service?

 

You have obviously never worked in the service industry if you even have to ask these questions. There are some jobs that we tend to tip for...

 

As for the guy that delivers my mail, I tip him at the end of the year. My mechanic makes a fortune off me, as does my doctor, as does the plumber... Blah blah, blah! Like I said, there are always those that make excuses...

 

Most of the jobs you named, the people could lose their jobs by accepting tips. Ever try to tip a flight attendant when buying a drink? They can't accept tips. Your argument doesn't make alot of sense... there are some people that accept gratuities and it is standard, there are some you don't.

 

As for tipping the laundry people, when you leave your tip on your S&S account, the people that do the laundry are also taken care of... this is a "pool".

 

The lines that discourage tipping... and just how much are you paying per week????

 

The tips the people receive on the ship IS THEIR SALARY!!! They otherwise make $40/month... the gratuities ARE what they make. I have never had bad service, but I also consider the gratuities as part of the cost to cruise... just as I do when I go to a restaurant. If they want a gratuity, they will do their job. It's that simple. There are people out there that are so cheap they squeak, there always will be. But the majority of people don't mind paying the gratuities for the services they receive.

[GoinCruisin]

Speaking of service, why are there so many double posts on this board? I only clicked on the submit button once.

 

Don't hit "refresh", even if you get a white screen, the info has been sent... hitting refresh will give you a double post. Use your browsers "back" button.

[big_duck]

I disagree. The lines that are best known for their service discourage tipping. The service staff are paid well to provide good service. I see that the lines that are rated the best are also the ones that discourage tipping. The best service does not come from someone looking for a tip, but rather someone who is happy and takes pride in their job.

 

Why do you assume these people would not also take pride in doing a good job? Those who do the best job get promoted. Most poeple do a good job without receiving tips. Besides, what is wrong with setting a minimum level of service that is good?

 

We aren't talking about those lines or well paid service people (20K for a cruise on Seaborne). The supposition was adding the Carnival tip to the Carnival price, there is no way they could afford the service people you mentioned under those circumstances.

[MrPete]

If someone slipped me a $20 and said thank you, I would (and have) reported it as a bribe. I am paid to do a job, and I try to do the best I can, not because I am hoping for a tip, but because that is what I am paid to do. And because I have done my job fairly well, I am paid enough to afford to take a cruise.

 

In my line of work, we call it a bonus. I certainly wouldn't turn it down.

 

And I'm VERY happy when it shows up.

[Oliver Sudden]

:mad: Are the kids half fare? If yes, then half tip; if no, then full gratuties. Simple. A better solution for all would be for you to leave the kids at home.

:) Problem solved! Personally I really like the gratuities being automatically charged to my credit card, very convenient for me. No messing with envelopes, no playing God with the staff's earnings.

:pI also believe that the requirement that adjustments be made on the last day can be easily complied with, if you get up early.

 

PREVIOUS CRUISES:

Jun 1989, RIVER CRUISES, -- Paddlewheeler Julia Belle Swain, GD

Sep 1993, US NAVY TIGER CRUISE, USS Halsey CG23, HI-CA, EXC

Nov 1997, CAPT. COOK CRUISES, Murray Princess, Australia, EXC

Jan.1993, RCL Majesty of the Seas 1st big cruiseship, we were green

May 1998, US NAVY TIGER CRUISE, USS Fife DD 191, HI-WA, EXC

Apr 1998, US NAVY TIGER CRUISE, USS Fife DD 191, HI-WA, EXC

May 1999, DELTA QUEEN STEAMBOAT CO, Delta Queen, EXC

Sep 2000, US NAVY TIGER CRUISE, USS Fife DD 191, HI-WA, EXC

May 2001, HAL Maasdam. E. Caribbean, VD

Feb 2002, HAL Rotterdam, S. Caribbean, exc. ship decor, EXC

May 2002, CARNIVAL Pride, W. Caribbean, garish decor, VG

Sep 2002, CELEBRITY, Mercury, Panama Canal, Rail & Sail FR

Dec 2002, CARNIVAL Spirit, E. Caribbean, nice decor, VERY GD

Apr 2003, HAL Statendam, CA-HI, good all around, VERY GD

Aug 2003, CARNIVAL Paradise, E. Carib., non-smoking ship, EXC

Sep 2003, CARNIVAL Paradise, W. Carib., non-smoking ship, EXC

Dec 2003, HAL Noordam, E. & S. Caribbean, VG

Mar 2004, HAL Volendam, W. Caribbean Wayfarer, VG

May 2004, MSC, Lirica, West Indies, GOOD

Nov 2004, HAL Prinsendam, 28-day Amazon River Explorer, VG

Feb 2005, CARNIVAL Glory, E. Caribbean, POOR

Mar 2005, CARNIVAL Glory, W.Caribbean, POOR

July 2005, CARNIVAL Miracle, W. Caribbean, EXC

COMING UP

Dec 2005 RCL Mariner of the Seas, E. Caribbean

Apr 2006 HAL Ryndam, S. Caribbean INCLUDING ARUBA!

Sep 2006 CARNIVAL Sensation, Bahamas (a short one)

[Cuizer2]

Don't hit "refresh", even if you get a white screen, the info has been sent... hitting refresh will give you a double post. Use your browsers "back" button.

 

Okay - good to know. Thank you.

[Cruisin Oma]

:mad: Are the kids half fare? If yes, then half tip; if no, then full gratuties. Simple. A better solution for all would be for you to leave the kids at home.

 

Allright Oliver - put on your flame retardent suit -

 

Where did you get that rule - the 3rd and 4th passengers (whether children or not) pay a reduced fair (it's usually not half of the 1st and 2nd passenger rate, but I believe considered 1/2 the full price cruise rate). This rate is offered because they are not taking up any additional rooms. But if anything - squeezing a 3rd and 4th passenger into a room makes it more work for the room steward.

 

There are more beds to be made, more towels to take care of. More clean up.

 

And these same children eat and drink on board. More plates, to serve, more dishes to be carried back and forth. They often require more refills, and no matter how well behaved, figure there is more clean up in the dining room.

 

Okay - so now the flaming question? How do you decide who you stiff on your tips??? The poor cabin steward who is working twice as hard in your room, or the wait staff because your kids eat on the buffet?

 

It's the same staff and they are all working hard to make sure your family has a wonderful vacation. Just becuase you don't see them in the fancy tuxedo in the dining room doesn't mean they aren't working 3 shifts a day.

 

Pickle I realize you now see the light of day- not tipping your wait staff because they worked in the buffet is like not paying a substitute teacher because it's not their normal classroom. They are still working to provide your child a service.

 

Just to let you know - some people will start reading a thread at the beginning, and often won't finish the complete thread to see you've seen the light. So just fair warning to you, you can probably expect more flames - unfortunate consequence for starting a hot topic. That being said, I'm glad you did and that you managed the to keep cordial through the discourse.

 

It's topics like these where I often learn the most - and anytime you get to learn something new, it is a good thing!!! (especially if it is about cruising!!)

[kmtjones803]

Which is why Carnival states children under 2 don't have to tip... however, I have seen the waitstaff go out of their way for toddlers... I would hope that if they did provide a service to the child, a gratuity would be extended.

 

We took our 10 month old with us, so although she didn't "have to" tip, they went out of their way and we tipped more than our own tips were set at.

 

Miranda

[Cuizer2]

You have obviously never worked in the service industry if you even have to ask these questions. There are some jobs that we tend to tip for...

 

As for the guy that delivers my mail, I tip him at the end of the year. My mechanic makes a fortune off me, as does my doctor, as does the plumber... Blah blah, blah! Like I said, there are always those that make excuses...

 

Most of the jobs you named, the people could lose their jobs by accepting tips. Ever try to tip a flight attendant when buying a drink? They can't accept tips. Your argument doesn't make alot of sense... there are some people that accept gratuities and it is standard, there are some you don't.

 

As for tipping the laundry people, when you leave your tip on your S&S account, the people that do the laundry are also taken care of... this is a "pool".

 

The lines that discourage tipping... and just how much are you paying per week????

 

The tips the people receive on the ship IS THEIR SALARY!!! They otherwise make $40/month... the gratuities ARE what they make. I have never had bad service, but I also consider the gratuities as part of the cost to cruise... just as I do when I go to a restaurant. If they want a gratuity, they will do their job. It's that simple. There are people out there that are so cheap they squeak, there always will be. But the majority of people don't mind paying the gratuities for the services they receive.

The fact is I do work in the service industry and have for over 20 years. And if someone gave me a tip it would be considered a bribe by me and my supervisor when I reported it.

 

That fact that there are people who work in the service industry without expecting a tip shows that service work can be done without expecting a tip at the end. Some of the worst service I ever received was from someone more concerned about the tip then his job. His level of service showed it, as did the resulting tip. The best service I have received was from people who took pride in their work. I thanked them in ways that did not involve money and received a thank you for my recognition of their superior service.

 

I realize that there are some jobs we tend to tip for, and I do leave a tip when the service at least meets a minimum level of acceptable service. As the level of service improves, so does the tip. But just because I play the tipping game does not mean I agree with it. Plenty of people do service work without tipping. Why should I have to pay someone extra to do their job? Because their employeer is too cheap to pay them well, so I have to?

 

A tip at the end of the year is like a Chrismas bonus or a Christmas gift. A gift is not a tip. Your reason for not tipping the mechanic or the doctor is the same as the OP for not tipping. The OP felt she paid enough and did not feel the need to pay more. You are saying the samething about your mechanic or your doctor. By the way, plenty of people give their mechanic or doctor a Christmas gift at the end of the year also.

 

Why is it some people could lose their job for accepting a tip while others do not? Everyone should receive the same level of good quality service. It should not be based on how much money one paid or how much of a tip one can pay. That is why some people can lose their job for accepting a tip. Because they are supposed to provide a service without regard to extra compensation. Why isn't everyone held to this same standard?

 

Carnival provides a tipping guide line. Nowhere does it say that the tips are pooled and some of the money goes to people I never see. I don't mind that that happens, but I would like to know where my money is going. I have the standard tip billed to my room. The extra tips I give in cash. I always make sure the people getting the extra cash understand that it is in addition to the standard. Now I am glad I am doing this. The person who received the extra is receiving the extra for the service they gave above average. That money is theirs and should not be pooled.

 

What difference does it make how much someone pays per week as to weather or not you should tip? The standard tip for someone in an inside cabin is the same as someone in a suite. If the crusie costs $2000 and the standard tip is $140 then why not just be up front about it and charge $2140 for the cruise. The cost is the same and everyone gets paid well. My tip when I was in a suite and my tip when I was in an inside cabin was the same standard tip plus extra cash as the level of service increased. It was not based on how much I paid for the room.

 

If there are people out there that are cheap, then charging $2140 for the cruise is fair. Then everyone gets paid and the people who do not perform at a standard level of service do not get their contracts renewed. Those that provide an extra level of service can a raise and a promotion. That is how it is where I work. That is how it is for the police. That is how it is for the officers on the ship. None of these professions provide me with a product, they all provide a service. The better they do their job, the less anyone notices. When they do not do their job it becomes national news. When they do their job well, they get a raise and a promotion.

 

My employer charges the clients more for my work than someone with less experience, and I get paid more than someone with less experience. I got to this point because I tried to do the best I could, even if no one gave me a "tip" (and those that did were reported).

 

People should take pride in their work. Those that perform the best should be rewarded the best. But everyone should make at least enough to provide for their family. They should not have to depend on the generosity of stangers to make a living wage. Pay for work is the cruise line's responsibility - not mine.

[Cuizer2]

We aren't talking about those lines or well paid service people (20K for a cruise on Seaborne). The supposition was adding the Carnival tip to the Carnival price, there is no way they could afford the service people you mentioned under those circumstances.

 

Why not. If I pay $2000 for the cruise and I am expected to tip $140, why not just be up front about it and charge $2140 for the cruise?

[Cuizer2]

In my line of work, we call it a bonus. I certainly wouldn't turn it down.

 

And I'm VERY happy when it shows up.

 

And in my line of work it is called a bribe and can (and has) resulted in criminal prosecution. I am expected to do my job for the amount I get paid, not in the hopes of receiving additional compensation from others. I have received bonuses also, but they come from the same people who pay my salary, not from the general public.

[nrdsb4]

Pay for work is the cruise line's responsibility - not mine.

 

Well, if the cruise industry does decide to actually pay their employees a salary instead of making them rely solely on tips, it will become your responsibility because cruise fares will rise significantly and in that scenario you won't have the option to deny payment if you don't like the quality of the service provided. Whether we like it or whether we don't, we will pay the salaries of the crew one way or another. If restaurants began to pay livable salaries instead of the below minimum wage they now pay, they'd just get us anyway by hiking up the prices of meals.

 

Not defending or criticizing the Western custom of tipping certain workers, just saying that we will pay the salaries of people who provide us with services - whether it be in tips, or in hidden but increased prices for everything.

[BlueHerons]

And in my line of work it is called a bribe and can (and has) resulted in criminal prosecution. I am expected to do my job for the amount I get paid, not in the hopes of receiving additional compensation from others. I have received bonuses also, but they come from the same people who pay my salary, not from the general public.

 

Cruizer, what kind of position do you have in the hospitality industry that could result in criminal prosecution for accepting a tip?

 

tip:

A small sum of money given to someone for performing a service; a gratuity.

 

gra·tu·i·ty (A favor or gift, usually in the form of money, given in return for service.

 

bribe n.

1. Something, such as money or a favor, offered or given to a person in a position of trust to influence that person's views or conduct.
   
2. Something serving to influence or persuade.

[GoinCruisin]

Sorry, you lost me at the end of chapter one. :rolleyes:

 

Seriously, rather than writing a novel trying to justify it, just be cheap and don't tip. And don't tell us about it, we'll be none the wiser!!!!!

[Timmys_mom]

... you just don't want to pay the people that help to make it that way... if it walks like a duck :p

 

Duck! I'm shocked to hear that you didn't tip.:D I thought this thread was going to be about a cruise version of cow tipping. :rolleyes:

 

That was a lot of reading. I felt so bad that we switched tables after the first night that I tipped our original waitress and her assistant in addition to the tips for our new waiter and his assistant. We skipped formal dining one night, but never modified our tips - someone had to clean up behind us on the Lido deck. I waitressed my way through college, my standard tip is 20% and you really have to be awful to get me to reduce it. I worked at Ciatti's (chain Italian restaurant) and we had to tip the bartendar a set percentage out of our tips. We had to print a summary of our sales for the evening and turn in our tip to the bartender. If the tips were out of line with sales (good or bad) it was noted and discussed with the manager. It seems that Carnival works along those lines. The last morning while waiting to debark is also a good time to put in writing why you tipped extra or reduced the tip. Comment cards are worth their weight in gold to staff.

 

Then on the other hand, there was this waitress in Ocho Rios who handed everyone in our group a comment card and stood there while we filled them out. Then, if someone had rated her less than excellent, she gave them a new one and asked them to change their opinion!

[zqvol]

If the cruiselines did that then service levels would drop to the level of what is required to keep my job because the service staff would have little or no incentive to operate above that level.

 

As for the gas, at 2.349, you would save a penny for every 10 gals bought, so I will buy 20 gals and put in my 2 cents. :D

Not so Don. I have found the best service to be on the lines where tipping is not allowed. Everyone is paid a decent wage and expected to earn it. And they do.

 

This does not mean that I don't tip, in fact I usually double + the recommended amount, but it is so much easier when the gratuties and alcohol are included in the cost.

[big_duck]

[quote name='zqvol']Not so Don. I have found the best service to be on the lines where tipping is not allowed. Everyone is paid a decent wage and expected to earn it. And they do.

This does not mean that I don't tip, in fact I usually double + the recommended amount, but it is so much easier when the gratuties and alcohol are included in the cost.[/QUOTE]


OK you tell me what cruiseline charges pays it's employees what Carnival does, doesn't allow tipping and has excellent service?

[GoinCruisin]

[quote name='big_duck']OK you tell me what cruiseline charges pays it's employees what Carnival does, doesn't allow tipping and has excellent service?[/quote]

and that you can cruise on for less than $100/day :D

[big_duck]

[quote name='Timmys_mom']Duck! I'm shocked to hear that you didn't tip.:D [/QUOTE]

No, I tip at least the recommended amount, I don't come up with War & Peace excuses for being a cheapskate. :p

[Hojo's redbeard]

[quote name='Cuizer2']
And how about the maitre d'? The CD always says the Maitre d? trained all the wait staff, so the maitre d' deserves a tip. So how much? 25¢ per person per day? On a ship with 2000 people that works out to $3,500 per week or $182,000 per year. Okay, so they don't work 52 weeks per year. Okay, how about 39 weeks per year (take 3 months off). That still works out to $136,500. Does anyone know where I can pick up an application? If the maitre d' does something for you, and you want to tip him/her - great. Otherwise, why should we tip the maitre d'? For me, the maitre d' from any of my cruises could come up to me right now and I would have no clue who (s)he is.
[/quote]

That is too funny. We had a conversation about the Maitre d' tipping a couple of nights ago (our last dinner at sea). The cruise director had mentioned tossing them a twenty in the debarkation speech. I did the math and wanted to have that job too!

[Cuizer2]

[quote name='nrdsb4']Well, if the cruise industry does decide to actually pay their employees a salary instead of making them rely solely on tips, it will become your responsibility because cruise fares will rise significantly and in that scenario you won't have the option to deny payment if you don't like the quality of the service provided. Whether we like it or whether we don't, we will pay the salaries of the crew one way or another. If restaurants began to pay livable salaries instead of the below minimum wage they now pay, they'd just get us anyway by hiking up the prices of meals.

Not defending or criticizing the Western custom of tipping certain workers, just saying that we will pay the salaries of people who provide us with services - whether it be in tips, or in hidden but increased prices for everything.[/quote]

I agree. It is my opinion that the cruise lines (and restaurants) do this to make it look like their product is less expensive than it really is. $2140 and $2000 + $140 are the same number. However, one allows the cruise line to claim the cruise is less expensive than it really is. Also, it shifts the burdon to the service staff away from the cruise line that hired them to the passenger who is supposed to be on vaction, not acting as a substitute supervisor.

Since we have to pay the fee one way or another, why not just admit it up front? Besides, as many have pointed out, if one person provides bad service and you reduce that person's tip, many others who share in the tip are also hurt. Why not get the supervisors and managers out on the deck with the service people and make the supervisors and managers do their job in promoting quality service. Why should the passengers have this responsibility? I am on vacation. Why do I have to act as the service supervisor?