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nov 13 cruise westerdam and holland america's response...


afgirl

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okay this post is not to get anyone upset or slam the cruise line. My husband and I sailed the westerdam on the november 13-20 cruise to the western carribean. So right off the bat we basically lost two ports, had rough seas, and dealt with the tropical storm forming. I understand that can't be helped although unfortunately makes us wait until later to visit Jamaica (bummer).

In addition to that stuff we had Norwalk on board from previous week, certain spa stuff not available for five days, internet and phone down, and more. My husband and I had many things wrong with our deluxe verandah suite and didn't receive a lot of what we paid for. So when we came home we did as instructed - wrote Holland America a letter.

What we got back was stunning! A kinda rude letter and them stating that they are sorry, but then wrote how it wasn't their fault even when it was clearly something they did wrong (not receive things we paid for - deluxe suite perks). Basically it was like a kid who was repremanded by an adult and was forced to say sorry when they really didn't mean it. It wasn't nicely written and then in the end they offer very little (quite insulting) compensation. Does Holland America miss their "signature of excellence" often? Note that both my husband and I have been customer service representatives in the past and I still work in the field. So trust me when I say some of what they wrote was clearly offensive along with their compensation. First time cruising with HAL and husband and I are now thinking we need to continue with another line for another cruising experience.

Once again I must state that I am just stunned at our response from them and wondering if this is the norm?

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Afgirl, could you explain what was wrong in your stateroom so perhaps we could all answer with a little more information?

 

As far as the forces of nature and the effect on your cruise, I'm just wondering what you would have HAL do for you. What sort of compensation did you expect from them? Unfortunately, when we cruise we always have to remember we're out on a big ocean and weather can be a factor. Actually, weather can be a factor when we stay at a resort. If it rains everyday, you won't get any sort of compensation for that either.

 

Please understand I'm not slamming you at all and I can really understand your disappointment. It's rotten that you cruised during a really bad week in the Caribbean. I'd be upset, too. But I can't say I'd expect anything from the cruiseline.

 

Your stateroom experience might be another thing, but you haven't elaborated so it's really hard to comment on that part.

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Afgirl........I am sorry your cruise was less than you hoped.

 

As you say, no one can be blamed for rough seas and missed ports due to weather.

 

You did not state what you did not receive that you felt was missing as Suite amenities. Hard to comment about that without some information.

 

 

As to Norwalk, we, too, have been on a ship when it was present. Not pleasant, of course. It is the second most common illness---second only to the common cold. There isn't a school, dormitory, nursing home, hospital, hotel etc etc etc that has not had outbreaks from time to time. People who are ill come aboard the ship with it; they do not quarantine themselves and this highly contagious virus is spread in the closed, contained environment of a cruise ship. Maybe once you forgot to wash your hands after touching a handrail before you ate or put your hand to your mouth. Maybe one time you opened a door and didn't wash your hands. A person who was infected may have used that door handle ahead of you. Wash your hands, wash your hands, wash your hands. That is the best defense and still no guarantee. I am a hand-washing fanatic when on a ship and still I contracted it one time. It happens. So what. I got over it.

 

When I got it, I wasn't happy, or course. It isn't HAL's fault; it happens. For all you can be sure, you may have caught it in port simply by touching the counter in a store that an infected person touched. You could have gotten it on the plane coming to the ship (if you flew---or in the airport). If you stayed in a hotel pre-cruise, you could have gotten it there. How about from the taxi you may have ridden to the ship. The restaurant ashore you may have eaten.....You get the picture. You cannot be absolutely sure you even got it on the ship from someone who should have stayed in their cabin rather than out and about unless you had at least 3-4 straight days at sea before you became ill. After that number of days, it would be likely you got it on the ship.

 

I have no interest in defending anyone. But I do have an interest in being fair.

 

I think I would get more from your post if you explained what it was you thought you missed out from in your Suite.

 

I hope you enjoy your next cruise more.

 

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Okay first off we live in the southern US and deal with hurricanes/tropical storms all of the time. So we know that no one can control the weather. What we weren't thrilled about was Freeport and we mentioned that too them. I know that they deal with trying to get into ports last minute and cannot help it, but Freeport doesn't have much and it is seriously lacking in beauty.

Second, we didn't get norwalk. Glad we didn't and love the measures that they take to make sure we don't get it. However, we did pay thousands of dollars for things like spa, suite perks, excursions etc....

Next, shore excursions in Grand Cayman turned out to be a fiasco and it was booked by HAL.

We were missing our fruit basket for most days, stationary, wouldn't help us with priority tendering (even upon asking neptune etc)...

We had quite a few times where we would order from room service (called them) and they wouldn't show up and most often would show up over a half hour later for milk and cookies.

Basically we paid thousands of dollars for things we couldn't use (spa/hot tubs, internet/phone communication to home), completely missed places we really booked the cruise for (Jamaica, and Cozumel), and missing suite perks we talked to employees about (still weren't fixed). My husband and I expect to get what we paid for on the ship and know that weather deals with the rest and can't help that.

 

oh and if we stayed at a resort at least we would be in the place we wanted to be. On a cruise people are looking forward to several ports of call, so many of us are probably looking forward to them. It's kinda interesting thinking about it now cause basically in a way no one should book a cruise to anywhere they really dream of being (jamaica etc) since that may change last minute and ours just happened to be half of our cruise. But then again if I booked an airline ticket to jamaica and there was a hurricane and they couldn't go, I would get a refund. But I am not interested in HAL giving me a refund. Simply making a point here. Oh and I know several people (family and friends) who have sailed on other cruise lines who give them an automatic voucher (amt. differs) for a next cruise when their ports have been changed due to weather and such. Simply given for the fact that cruise line would like to have you back as a customer.

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It's too bad your expectations weren't met, but your travel agent should have warned you that the reason the fares are so attractive in November is because stormy weather at that time is very likely to adversely affect your itinerary. We have been on several cruises where we missed at least one port, and one where we never left the ship. I would never book a cruise because of a certain port (ask the group of people who booked a cruise to attend - and missed - a wedding in Key West, which is often skipped for one reason or another).

  • As for priority tendering, all you need to do is show up at the tender and flash your gold card.
  • Illness among the spa staff means fewer treatments offered. The spa isn't free, anyway, and you weren't charged for it.
  • Leave a note for your steward for the fruit basket, and if that doesn't work, call his supervisor, and if that doesn't work, call the Hotel Manager. Once (in a Cat SS) my refrigerator didn't work, and they got Maintenance and the Hotel Staff on the job, and I got a replacement. All I had to do was leave a note for the steward on the door.

As for a rude reply, I have written many letters... praise as well as criticism... and have never received such a reply. If your letter to HAL was anything like your original post, I can understand them being defensive. You mentioned several times that you understand that some changes can't be helped, but want HAL to make it perfect anyway. If you told them you wouldn't cruise with them again, it's not likely they would offer you anything substantial.

 

If you want an opinion on this forum, tell us what steps you took to correct the problems, and show us what you wrote and their reply.

 

Candy <-- thinks respect goes both ways

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I was on the same cruise that you sailed on. As some of the others explain, there were some items that were beyond HAL's control, mainly the weather. I wanted to visit Jamaica also, but understood the logic of not going. As for Cozumel, I know that if you checked the roll call and the board (which I know from your log name), the change from Cozumel to Costa Maya was prior to sailing. I talked to a group from a Princess ship that went to Cozumel prior to Grand Caymans and from their comments, it was a downer and wish that their ship went somewhere else.

As for the fruit basket, spa,etc. A simple inquiry was all that was needed. I received a fruit basket everyday. As for the spa, the sauna open late Friday and Saturday and was free. They closed it for extra cleaning due to the virus the first five days of the trip. I guess I lucked out with room service, because I received my food within the time quoted. Now there were long wait times when people were returning to the ship, but the order taker imformed me of this when I place my order.

I will agree with Grand Caymans that the tending was below par, but I place some of the blame also with the Caymans for allowing so many ships in port at one time. The process was too long and there where still people waiting to get off the boat at noon.

As for your reply from HAL, I can't say since I have to read the letter that you sent and the one that was received. I wrote comments about the trip also, the majority of my comments were good, but there were some below par (mainly the tendering and some of my fellow cruisers) comments.

HAL sent a letter thanking me for my comments and on the areas that I rated below par, suggestions on improvement were made.

I hate that the trip was not what you expected it to be. But do not give up on cruising. HAL might not be your cup of tea. But I was happy with my cruise, I enjoyed myself, and met quite a few people that I'm keeping in touch with.

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We were missing our fruit basket for most days, stationary, wouldn't help us with priority tendering (even upon asking neptune etc)...

We had quite a few times where we would order from room service (called them) and they wouldn't show up and most often would show up over a half hour later for milk and cookies.

Basically we paid thousands of dollars for things we couldn't use (spa/hot tubs, internet/phone communication to home), completely missed places we really booked the cruise for (Jamaica, and Cozumel), and missing suite perks we talked to employees about (still weren't fixed). My husband and I expect to get what we paid for on the ship and know that weather deals with the rest and can't help that.

I'm sorry your cruise did not live up to your expectations. Sadly ... and I learned this lesson first hand ... there is a reason why the prices are so low during high hurricane season. Specifically because of the possibility of many missed ports, lousy weather in other ports, cancelled shore excursions, limited shipboard services due to poor weather, etc., the cruise lines have a hard time filling these sailings and thus drop the price. Sometimes this works out to the passenger's advantage, and then sadly sometimes it doesn't. You obviously got the short end of the stick in this case. There is really nothing the cruise lines can do when they have to skip ports because of weather, other than refund your port charges. There is nothing they can do when they have to substitute ports at the last minute because a planned port is forecasted for some bad weather. That's the risk one takes when they sail in hurricane season.

 

Also, as for Norwalk, there is little HAL can do if an outbreak of Norwalk occurs onboard ship. They have to shut down certain services, and curtail others. This is obviously what happened to you when the spa closed. Perhaps they had a lot of sick employees ... or perhaps it was decided that Norwalk could be spread a lot faster by passengers using the spa services.

 

As for the problems with not getting the ammenities you paid for in your stateroom, that's another issue. If it were me, I would have complained all the way up to the hotel manager if necessary. While I don't book the sort of staterooms that qualify for the ammenities you speak of, I can only guess that maybe your room steward was overworked because many of his co-workers were sick and he slipped up. If a gentle reminder didn't make those ammenities appear, then I would have escalated my complaint higher up. For those shortcomings, yes ... I would imagine HAL does owe you some sort of compensation.

 

But as far as the other things, it's the luck of the draw. You hit a bad week due to weather and an outbreak of sickness on the ship. That's basically the chances one takes when they sail, and the only suggestion I can make is that if those are not chances you wish to take with your vacations in the future, perhaps a land vacation might be better for you. As you say, at least then you would be in a place you wished to be.

 

Sorry things didn't work out for you this time around ...

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

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Usually when ports are missed for any reason, the cruise line refunds the cost and port charges to your onboard account. Didn't you get your refund?

 

When this has happened to usewe usually get wine or champagne in the dining room from the captain and reasonable explanations. Were these courtesies missing too?

 

I've never found the concierge's reply to be lacking in courtesy. Were they totally unresponsive to your needs and comments?

 

And, attitude does enter into the picture. If you were confrontational you may not have gotten a nice response. I have seen how some disgruntled pax act. Is it possible you were less than nice in your approach?

Just asking....

GN

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Sorry that your cruise on the Westerdam wasn't up to your expectations.

 

As for priority tendering. We have never had a problem with that - Grand Cayman, HMC, anywhere. We just go down to the tender area, get in line, and away we go.

 

As for Grand Cayman - that has been a problem for years and it is getting worse. I have reported this several times. The ships that use the Cayman tenders have priority in using the pier area. Those ships that use their own tenders, must wait in the bay until they are given clearance to get into the pier. The wait can be up to an hour on the tender to get to the pier. And the waiting times to return to the ships are just as bad.

 

It was posted everywhere - including this board - and pictures were posted as well - about the destruction the hurricanes caused in Cozumel - washed docks, etc. So it was known before your cruise that you wouldn't be stopping there.

 

As for the concierges - we have never had a problem with them. Maybe the way you presented yourself to them??

 

As for fruit baskets - never had a problem there.

 

What other suite perks did you have a problem with?

 

And as for the Norvo, we have been on several ships when the illness broke out. One time it was so bad we were not allowed to touch anything in the buffet lines. There were no salt and peppers, roles, etc. on the tables at dinner.

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...snip...oh and if we stayed at a resort at least we would be in the place we wanted to be...snip
I went to Cancun one November for what was expected to be 5 days in paradise. I was in a 5-star resort, and spent 4 days in a driving rainstorm wishing I was anywhere else... even home. The sun came out on the last day, just as I was beginning to pack.

 

At least the ship can avoid the really bad weather. These days the ship itself is our destination, so we don't really care about the weather. As long as we have the SOE bedding, Texas Hold'em and the Craps table is open, we're OK.

 

Candy <-- not booked, and not happy

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Usually when ports are missed for any reason, the cruise line refunds the cost and port charges to your onboard account. Didn't you get your refund?

 

When this has happened to usewe usually get wine or champagne in the dining room from the captain and reasonable explanations. Were these courtesies missing too?

 

I've never found the concierge's reply to be lacking in courtesy. Were they totally unresponsive to your needs and comments?

 

GN

 

First off my husband and I were really nice. We work in the customer service industry and know how people can be, so we go the extra mile to make sure that we are really nice etc when writing or calling somewhere.

Second, no we were not refunded the port charges or anything to our account and all the courtesies you are mentioning were also missing - completely.

We did in fact talk to the neptune lounge the second day of our trip and they said everything would be fixed. Of course it was for the second and third day and then we started having problems again. We would talk to the lounge again and even called higher up. That is why we mentioned some stuff in the letter to HAL.

priority tendering never happened. we had to wait with everyone else even with our cards and waited for a while.

We listed many praises to hal when we wrote the letter as well. Don't get me wrong. And we wanted to use the spa services and hot tubs. Looking forward to the whole deal and realize that due to illness the previous week and we understand that, but still disappointed.

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Just because someone complains about their trip doesn't mean they presented themselves badly to anyone. My husband and I were beyond courteous and spent quite a few times having wonderful conversations with our concierge and hearing about his family. During that time there was an earthquake in his country and so we went out of our way to ask him if his family was okay (and they were).

We used the neptune lounge and even chatted with them a bit. Most of the people are very nice and wonderful. We enjoyed our dining room stewards.

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Any of us who have cruised to Grand Cayman will agree that tendering there can be very slow with unpleasant waits. I recall reading very recently that Grand Cayman broached the issue of building another tender dock to help the ships speed up the process. They decided to not do that. Blame the authorities in Grand Cayman, not the cruiseships. They can't simply go there and build more docks. I venture to say they would welcome more dock space even more than we would.

 

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I'm so sorry that your cruise did not work for you. Cruising is not for everyone. I believe that you may have misunderstood about the priority tendering. It doesn not give you a "go to the head of the line"; it allows you to board without having to wait in the lounge for a tender number.

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Usually when ports are missed for any reason, the cruise line refunds the cost and port charges to your onboard account. Didn't you get your refund?

 

I was aboard the Westerdam on this cruise. While we missed two of our scheduled ports they were replaced with other ports of call. There WAS a tiny credit on our accounts reflecting the difference between Jamaica's port fees and Freeport's fees. When I say the difference was tiny, it was about the cost of a soda.

 

All-in-all the Nov 13th cruise was really quite unfortunate, but there was VERY little HAL could have done about much of it. It sounds to me as though the OP had some service problems that were unrelated to the weather, but a bit more forcefulness might have helped in that department (I cannot say for sure). As for the weather and Norwalk ... no cruise line on earth can control those two problems. YES, many of the Spa operations were closed due to Norwalk restrictions ... but one has to PAY extra for use of these features in the Spa. The same is true for the Internet. I was severely hampered by being unable to access the internet that second week. But ... then ... internet access costs money over and beyond one's cruise fare as well. The Hot tubs were closed due to Norwalk restrictions, too, and those are "free" ... but I didn't complain. I'd rather not get to use the hot tub and reduce my chances of catching Norwalk than use a hot tub and end up kneeling by my toilet for a couple of days.

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With regard to the situation at Grand Cayman ... the tender issue really was pathetic. Something should be done about it, or HAL should stop visiting there. The problems were not just with getting ashore ... they were also horrible trying to get back aboard ship. Other ships had tiny lines, or no line at all, to board their tenders to return to ship. HAL's line was VERY VERY long, and VERY slowly moving. We were in the line when time ran past our ship's posted departure time ... and we were finally boarding a tender to return to the Westerdam about an hour AFTER the final "all aboard" time posted at the pier and aboard ship. That's just NUTS. If HAL can't keep their posted schedule, why post it??

 

As for the tour problems ashore, half of those were generated by the fact that -- due to Gamma -- we had to visit a day early. Yes, that's right, the day we should have been at Jamaica we actually were at Grand Cayman. This meant that our shore excursions couldn't be confirmed and HAL's agent was only able to obtain a very limited number of places on about 40% of the scheduled shore excursions. As a result, placement on excursions came on a "s/he-who-booked first gets the spot" basis; we booked too late to get on our excursion, so we were cancelled and a credit was added to our bill.

 

We went ashore anyway, clueless as to what we were gonna do, and almost immediately ran into a tour operator offering PRECISELY the same excursion we had originally booked through HAL, and for about 25% less than the HAL Excursion price. It turned out that it was even the same tour operator! Why HAL's Agent found it difficult to spots on these excursions for their booked passengers I do not know, but things worked out good for us.

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afgirl,

 

Sorry but I am still not sure what happened with tendering, short of Grand Cayman is always a mess and things can move very slow.

 

When you went to the tender, did they not allow you on the boat ?

 

Were you sent back to get a number ?

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We were also on this same cruise -- this was our 14th Caribbean cruise & 11th in November -- also the worst weather ever in Caribbean -- very unusual -- but be thankful the ship can move away from the weather & that's what ours was trying to do: stay ahead of the bad weather. I'm sure the people who were stuck in Cancun & Cozumel in leaking shelters during Hurricane Wilma would have given ANYTHING to have been on a cruise ship that could have gone elsewhere!!!

 

Westerdam wasn't the only ship in Western Caribbean that week & ALL were trying to redo their schedules & change ports!!! We were told the captain tried to get us into Key WEst instead of Freeport, but there were only so many ships that could get into Key WEst & it was full!

 

We were happy that they did skip Jamaica -- we have been there 4 times previously on cruises & rarely get off ship! You didn't miss much, believe me!!! Also have you noticed that next fall, HAL is dropping Jamaica (Western) and Nassau (Easter) & substituting Tucks & Caicos instead??

 

Freeport: If the port wasn't to your liking, why didn't you come back to ship & enjoyed the sunshine around pool -- we'd had so little sun all week!! Another point: Did you realize that Freeport also was hit by a hurricane last year (one of those 4 that crossed FL) and lost ALOT of vegetation -- usually you can't see 1/2 block off main roads. A couple hotels & 2 golf courses are still closed down from that hurricane!

 

For our original date for Grand Cayman, 7 ships were listed on Cayman port website to be in port, so the tendering situation would have been just as bad.

 

You just gotta learn how to make lemonade out of lemons.....

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I'm so sorry that your cruise did not work for you. Cruising is not for everyone. I believe that you may have misunderstood about the priority tendering. It doesn not give you a "go to the head of the line"; it allows you to board without having to wait in the lounge for a tender number.

Yeah, but that should get you onboard one of the first tenders, since everyone else will have to make that lounge stop first. But, then, priority tendering is only a bennie if you want to be one of the first people off the ship. If you are going on land later, then what's the point? Chances are no one is having to go to the lounge for a ticket at that point anyway.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

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I went to Cancun one November for what was expected to be 5 days in paradise. I was in a 5-star resort, and spent 4 days in a driving rainstorm wishing I was anywhere else... even home. The sun came out on the last day, just as I was beginning to pack.

 

At least the ship can avoid the really bad weather. These days the ship itself is our destination, so we don't really care about the weather. As long as we have the SOE bedding, Texas Hold'em and the Craps table is open, we're OK.

That's where my whole philosophy of a cruise vacation comes in. Personally, I think that if you are going on the trip to spend time at a specific island or port, then you are probably better off planning a land vacation to that port and taking your chances as to weather. A cruise might not work for you because what happens if for some reason that port has to be skipped? Then the whole reason for looking forward to your cruise is shot full of holes and much disappointment results.

 

However, if you are taking a cruise because the ship is the primary destination ... and the ports are secondary, then cruising is perfect for you.

 

I'm looking forward to a lot of the ports on my upcoming 30-day cruise next month. I love Hawaii and am really looking forward to seeing a bit of the South Pacific islands as well. I've also got a lot of fun things planned in many of those ports and am looking forward to those things. However, my primary reason for wanting to take this cruise is just the ambience of being aboard a beautiful ship like the Amsterdam, and enjoying everything she has to offer. If we had to skip certain ports, I might be a tad disappointed, but it certainly wouldn't wreck my cruise experience.

 

That's where I think people have to carefully evaluate whether a cruise to a certain destination would be right for them. If I really wanted to see a specific place and explore it in depth, as much as I love cruising, I think I would plan a land vacation there instead. Cruising, though, is a great way to discover those little jewels. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

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We were also on this same cruise -- this was our 14th Caribbean cruise & 11th in November -- also the worst weather ever in Caribbean -- very unusual -- but be thankful the ship can move away from the weather & that's what ours was trying to do: stay ahead of the bad weather. I'm sure the people who were stuck in Cancun & Cozumel in leaking shelters during Hurricane Wilma would have given ANYTHING to have been on a cruise ship that could have gone elsewhere!!!

Also, have you noticed that HAL, as well as some of the other cruise lines such as Princess, are steering clear of the Caribbean during the hurricane season in the future? Problems such as the ones noted here won't have a chance to occur, because if you want to cruise in the summer months, the Caribbean won't be an option on certain cruise lines any longer.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

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What am I missing here? I've read the original post and nineteen replies and still can't figure out what the OP paid for that she didn't get? Other than her fruit basket and the use of the hot-tub?

Not being able to use the hot-tub is certainly understandable under the Norwalk Virus condition.

She paid for a cruise and got it. Ports can be changed. There's no obligation to give any credit toward that---or a future---cruise. A glass of "champagne" is a nice touch, but certainly not an obligation---it isn't even the good stuff!

She didn't get to use the Internet, but didn't pay for it, either.

Why couldn't she use the phone? There's one in the cabin---but, again, she also didn't pay for it and not get to use it.

If the port charges for the missed port weren't refunded, was Freeport a substitiute? That might explain the lack of refund.

If she was able to go directly to the tender area without waiting for a tender ticket she got priority tendering.

Am I the only one who's confused?

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It does seem from reading all this that Afgirl had some confusion about what she was actually "paying for" and what is included in the cost of the cruise whether you're in a suite or not.

 

"Priority tendering" really is a misnomer because (as someone already mentioned) all it means is you avoid going to the lounge to get tender tickets. Beyond that you're on the same line everyone else is:) .

 

As for Grand Cayman, always a nightmare I agree. We really steer clear of Grand Cayman or just don't get off.

 

I think everyone who has posted here who was also on this cruise showed the understanding and patience you just have to have when it comes to cruising, particularly during hurricane season. It's a bummer, for sure. I'd be just as disappointed as Afgirl.

 

As someone said, cruiselines are steering clear of the Caribbean now during hurricane season and it's a shame. But part of the reason is that most people, unfortunately, just can't roll with the change of ports, the annoyances, etc. As a result the lines have found themselves in the position of being asked for refunds, vouchers, etc., that really aren't due the passenger (IMHO). Who needs it? So they'll cruise in other waters and avoid all the problems.

 

As for your comment, Afgirl, that being rained out in a resort at least you'd be on the island you wanted to be on, I have to tell you there is nothing worse than sitting in a hotel room in the pouring rain in what was otherwise going to be a fabulous island getaway. Been there, done that ... and I'll take a change of port or two where the sun is shining any day!:)

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Okay, so the only thing missed out on was the $0.50 basket of fruit for 5 days. Lets see, if HAL did that to all it's suite passengers on every ship for every cruise, why that is just a scam!!!!! ;)

 

Some things are just not worth complaining about and to take the time to write a letter and get what "little" compensation HAL offered smacks of an over eager complainer. Sure, there were disappointments with missed ports, tender problems in Grand Cayman, and services being limited due to illness on board but they were not the fault of HAL. Sorry you didn't enjoy your cruise in the same manner that others on the very same cruise did. If you had a legitimate complaint, beyond the fruit basket, you probably would of gotten a better response from HAL and your frustrations would of been met with sympathy here.

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