OK...time to admit I'm wrong (a little bit).

[C 2 C]

In November we were on the B2B sailing of Summit through the canal. The Nov 6 sailing was a CC reunion cruise. Almost every evening we came back to the cabin to find a little gift. These included: picture frames, pens (that work), leather luggage tags, bottle of wine in a padded case, diary/notebook, free shore excursion. The second leg (Nov 20) was mundane, a downer in comparison. No special treatment, no gifts; just a bunch of minor irritants that will lead me to try other lines if the pattern continues in February on Mercury. Many posters have already mentioned the poor performance of RCI stock. There was a decrease in service quality, food shortages, and price increases that IMHO, were driven by an attempt to increase profit margins at the expense of customer satisfaction. The two weeks we spent on Summit Nov. 6 we would rate near the top of our 34 weeks on Celebrity. The two weeks starting Nov. 20 ranked next to the norwalk experience on Zenith Feb 27th sailing this year as a reason to go elsewhere. A B2B sailing, same ship, same crew, totally diferent satisfaction level.

[bob278]

I agree that the CC is not as good as the RCL C&A. We became Celebrity cruisers right around the transition. In fact, when we sent in our application, I had signed to authorize charging my credit card. When they sent us our cards, there was a form letter explaining that the "New" club was free and they had not charged my card. But they also made us "Founders". I guess because we made it under some arbitrary date or maybe because we were willing to pay for the privilege.

 

Those who paid (I think it was $35) received a coupon good for $50 so any original members who cruised after the club became free basically got their money back.

 

In my opinion, the club has dropped in how valuable the perks are, not because it's free, but because there are so many more members. As I recall, the CC "upgrade/discount" benefit was always a one-category upgrade (as long as you remained within the group of inside-to-inside or ocean view-to-ocean-view). That's worth about $30 per person. In the C&A, the benefit is a true discount on balcony and suite cabins that goes up based on level. Much better deal.

 

Even our first gifts as CC members (around 2002) weren't impressive, but we only go back about 3 years so I don't know about earlier.

 

Both clubs have similar embarkation/debarkation benefits, but those depend on the number of members on a given cruise. On both lines (and on Delta where I have not been below Gold Medallion in over 8 years), I watch the "regular" lines with more agents closely and try to predict which one will go faster. I do not care about any "prestige" gained by standing in the preferred line. I just want to get through quicker. It is a simple matter of logistics - more "preferred members" equals more crowding in that line. I remember a flight on Delta once (where Medalliion members were boarded right after first class and before they started by rows) where the gate agent announced that the coach cabin held 120 people and there were 117 Medallions so they were going to board by rows. What he didn't say, but I could almost imagine as the next words out of his mouth was "Get over it!"

 

And the on-board repeater parties on either line are pretty much a waste of time to me. One time it mattered was on Grandeur of the Seas when we were supposed to go into New Orleans for an overnight Mardi Gras stay and couldn't. The C&A members got an invitation to an extra meeting where the Captain spent a long time answering questions (and quite properly making a woman who asked about compensation feel foolish) about why we couldn't go into the port. People were killed and the Coast Guard was trying to recover bodies and this woman wanted to know how much compensation she was going to get for missing her party on shore.

 

I find Ross' comment about airline executives taking over a company interesting. I would think their actions would impact both equally, but the lower-priced line seems to be doing better. Wonder why?

 

All-in-all, I agree that C&A is the better program and I think Celebrity has a marginally better product at sea. However, the recent price differentials make me lean more towards RCL (price AND club benefits). But the club benefits are not enough to prevent me from trying another line, although I probably won't unless the price or service get out of whack.

[canderson]

Those who paid (I think it was $35) received a coupon good for $50 so any original members who cruised after the club became free basically got their money back.

I keep hearing that. We, too, were "Founders" but never got the coupon.

In my opinion, the club has dropped in how valuable the perks are, not because it's free, but because there are so many more members. As I recall, the CC "upgrade/discount" benefit was always a one-category upgrade (as long as you remained within the group of inside-to-inside or ocean view-to-ocean-view). That's worth about $30 per person. In the C&A, the benefit is a true discount on balcony and suite cabins that goes up based on level. Much better deal.

No kidding. And due to the cabins we book, we never see this anyway. Back before Celebrity got cute and relabelled the 1A/1B/1C cabins as "Concierge Class" on M-Class ships, we could book a 1C at a 2A price. Now, we book CC -- no lower equivalent cabin, no discount. Or book FV -- no lower equivalent cabin, no discount. Or on C-Class, SS -- no lower equivalent cabin, no discount. Cabins like these would be discounted if we were cruising with RCL. Not so with Celebrity.

I find Ross' comment about airline executives taking over a company interesting. I would think their actions would impact both equally, but the lower-priced line seems to be doing better. Wonder why?

There are a couple of reasons for this, Bob. In large part, these are much "newer" airlines without the daunting legacy of old union contracts and pensions to carry forward as extra baggage (pun intended). So they've got a bit different cost structure in the payroll department to start out with.

 

Also, due to costs, these carriers were running much closer to capacity while the older airlines were having problems filling seats. As companies started to do some serious belt tightening, they started looking for the rock bottom fares for their travelling employees, service not being a consideration. In prior years, many companies allowed some flexibility in the choice of airlines even if the price were higher. Really -- how many flew People's Express for business back before Lorenzo killed THAT airline (along WITH Eastern and Frontier)? Of course, the typical tourist goes for fare nearly every time if schedule isn't a killer.

 

So as the new carriers came in with different costs and a different business model, and the older airlines, already facing financial problems of their own making, had trouble competing. Most of the moves being made currently by the old line carriers that haven't yet filed Chapter 11 are still, IMHO, largely cosmetic in nature. Even those that have emerged from Chapter 11 don't look too hot.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

HI BOB!!!

 

When RCI bought Celebrity they kicked out some great people and brought in some folks who we love to refer to as "airline executives". Some of these people knew absolutely nothing about the traditions and history that made the ships what they are today. All they were interested in was cost cutting/efficiency. Now the product has morphed into something that is not resembling a tradtional cruise. They better pay attention because I just talked to a great friend of mine who got off the MSC LIRICA this morning, after a 10 day cruise, and he called me from the ship to tell me that the experience was lovely and that the dining room was a real Italian experience...not to be missed. It sounds like RICK SASSO...formerly the President of Celebrity...is now getting the MSC act together. Rick was at the helm of X during the Century Class and Millennium Class construction. It would not surprise me if competition forces RCI to wake up and smell their own coffee...LOL!!!

 

ROSS

[C 2 C]

It seems to me, that there are a number of traditional X cruisers, who are ready to jump ship (me included) because Celebrity no longer provides a truly superior product, to other lines where frequent cruisers are offered superior rewards.

[goouchjac]

It seems to me, that there are a number of traditional X cruisers, who are ready to jump ship (me included) because Celebrity no longer provides a truly superior product, to other lines where frequent cruisers are offered superior rewards.

Amen to that!!!:(

[CGTNORMANDIE]

It seems to me, that there are a number of traditional X cruisers, who are ready to jump ship (me included) because Celebrity no longer provides a truly superior product, to other lines where frequent cruisers are offered superior rewards.

 

We tried PRINCESS for the first time this year and it was very nice. PRINCESS does not play the price control game so we were able to enjoy a substantial discount on both cruises. I have to say that the Mini Suite on the Grand Class ships is a great deal and both cruises were very enjoyable and up to X standards in many ways. I will also gladly go back to RCI as they really know how to treat their Diamond members of the C&A. We love X but not enough to blind us from the harsh realities of competition.

 

ROSS

[Danno]

The day X changes to a "less structured" dining, I'm afraid Jill and I will try Oceanic Cruise lines...I don't cruise X for the CC perks, nor would some bobbles keep me there if I was unhappy...I cruise X for it's standard of service and food. If that standard is not maintained I will go elsewhere.

 

Loyalty is earned, NOT bought...I would be happy if all the lines did away with all the loyalty toys and just concentrated on giving their members current info, a more comfortable departure area in the terminal, comfortable breakfast before disembarkation.

 

I have been loyal to X for many years because they have always given me a good experience and value for my money...an extra trinket, a cat. upgrade, even a $200 credit is NOT going to make me overlook shoddy service, poor food, or a ship in disrepair.

 

I find it interesting that few people ask "how good" anymore, just "how cheap"...the WALMARTization of our buying habits. Just try to buy a quality toaster!!

[CGTNORMANDIE]

The PERSONAL CHOICE dining on PRINCESS is a joke. The standard dining rooms with early and late seatings are booked solid 6 months in advance...that should tell you something. When you go to the Personal Choice dining rooms it takes 2 or 3 times before you find a good table and a good waiter and assistant...then you have to book it at least 1 day in advance for 8:30 PM which seems to be the best time to get good service...go figure...LOL!!! So much for "anytime dining".

 

The $$ factor is important...as far as I am concerned. It is not a question of "Wal Mart shopping", as I/we usually go for better cabins/suites. When I can cruise for 2 weeks in a better cabin for the same price as 1 week on X...then I will take a serious look at the competition. as we did with PRINCESS. I still prefer X over P but the differences are getting smaller and the $$ factor is definitely tilting in P's favor...food for thought.

 

ROSS

[Danno]

".

 

I still prefer X over P but the differences are getting smaller and the $$ factor is definitely tilting in P's favor...food for thought.

 

ROSS

 

If the quality was considerably better on X, I'm sure P wouldn't be in your plans. The problem is, when quality is a "tie", price then breaks that tie...and to be honest, faced with what you described at the dining situation on P, and the fact that I only get one short vacation per year...I wouldn't go through that if the cruise was free...and I'm not kidding.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

HI DANNO!!!

 

If you ever try to go on PRINCESS (which I know you won't...so I say this for the benefit of others who are folllowing this thread...) just book a reservation in the traditional dining rooms when you book your cruise. I was fully aware of the situation when I booked our cruises...but being the adventurous type...I decided to see what the PERSONAL CHOICE was all about. BOTTOM LINE: Why bother with it when you can dine the traditional way. That is why both traditional dining rooms were booked solid.

 

Believe me when I tell you...you would have paid money to be on these ships...they were gorgeous.

 

ROSS

[Oxo]

'The PERSONAL CHOICE dining on PRINCESS is a joke. The standard dining rooms with early and late seatings are booked solid 6 months in advance...that should tell you something. When you go to the Personal Choice dining rooms it takes 2 or 3 times before you find a good table and a good waiter and assistant...then you have to book it at least 1 day in advance for 8:30 PM which seems to be the best time to get good service...go figure...LOL!!! So much for "anytime dining".

 

I do not agree with your assessment of Personal Choice. We have used personal choice since it was first started on Princess and that includes using it over 10 times on different Princess ships. Normally on the Grand class and Sun class ships there is only 1 Traditional Dining room. So, yes that does fill up fast because people are not open to change. We are people of habit and change is not accepted quickly.

 

With Personal choice you have the same options and more than at Traditional dining. You may have the same table, staff and dining time every night upon request. If you do so, you just walk in at that time, no line to wait in. You can request that as soon as the first night and have it for the entire cruise. You might have had a bad experience. People have bad experience even in Traditional.

 

The luck of the draw on getting a good table and staff is the same as if you were in Traditional. You don't pick your table or staff when you go Traditional. You can when you go Personal choice.

 

If you want to invite people to your table in PC you may, not in Traditional. If you want to change our dining time because of a port, you may.

 

I could add more, but I think I have made my point.

 

Other Cruise lines are trying this and calling it other things. It will be the future as more and more cruisers want options. We like PC and use it. Everyone has their opinion.

[Danno]

Ross...never say never...but Princess and RCL just don't seem to have any attraction for me...when I venture outward (if X goes with free style dining)...then I would like to explore MSC, Orient, Oceanic, and most of all the sailing ships.

 

I'm feeling a bit of pressure over this next cruise...friends are coming along...I just hope Century is as good as I remember her...wear and tear (to a point) is understandable, lack of maintainance is not...I can put up with a lot, but being embarassed would be tough.

 

Our next cruise will meet our expectations, which is only to be a good as the last cruises on X, or it will be our last...we'll explore other options...I'm optimistic that it'll be a great 9 days!!

[negc]

I do not agree with your assessment of Personal Choice. We have used personal choice since it was first started on Princess and that includes using it over 10 times on different Princess ships. Normally on the Grand class and Sun class ships there is only 1 Traditional Dining room. So, yes that does fill up fast because people are not open to change. We are people of habit and change is not accepted quickly.

 

Rather than attribute reasons that may or may not apply to people who prefer traditional dining and cavalierly dismiss them as not being "open to change", perhaps Princess should recognize that when the number of people who request traditional dining on a particular cruise reaches a certain amount, they should reallocate the dining rooms to accommodate their guests. Maybe it is Princess that is not open to change if they insist on having only 1 Traditional Dining room regardless of how long a waitlist there is for that style of dining.

 

The luck of the draw on getting a good table and staff is the same as if you were in Traditional. You don't pick your table or staff when you go Traditional. You can when you go Personal choice.

My understanding is that you can make those choices if Princess chooses to honor them. Read the Princess boards and see how many complaints there are from posters who requested a specific table, service staff, or dining time, and were told they couldn't be accommodated, or could be accommodated only if they were willing to eat at 6:30 or 9:00 pm.

I could add more, but I think I have made my point.

You have expressed your opinion but I am not sure that you have convinced everyone that "Anytime Dining" on Princess is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that those who don't agree are simply unwilling or unable to accept change.

[Danno]

... and that those who don't agree are simply unwilling or unable to accept change.

 

Not all change is for the better...if it's not better, why would I accept it :confused: ??

[spearmint]

.

The Captain's Club was not growing as quickly as they wanted so they dropped the fee (and returned the money to those that paid -coupon) to increase the numbers.

 

What was this? We paid (about $80 CDN) to join Captain's Club after our first cruise in 1990, and (a) did not ever receive the promised video of our choice (despite repeated calls to CC) and (b) did not receive a refund/coupon when CC became free. We did get to be Founder Classic members, which enabled us, supposedly, to board and depart quicker, as well as the regular "perks".

[CGTNORMANDIE]

HI ONO,

 

Some people like Personal Choice and that is fine...I think it breeds mediocrity and indifference by the staff...I also think that PRINCESS could have a great product with a little tweaking...just my experience, observations and opinion.

 

HI BILL!!! THANKS!!!

 

HI DANNO!!! Well...it's good to hear that you will keep an open mind. I am also upset with the direction of X and I hope you have a great time on CENTURY...why not...she is still a great ship...I can't wait for the stretch and refurbishments. I would definitely try her again if all goes well. I hope it works out for you.

 

ROSS

[negc]

Hi Ross - had dinner a week or so ago with George and some of the other folks I used to work with. Told him to give you our regards. Happy New Year to you and Diane. Weary is joining us for next year's repositioning. How about you?

 

Danno, I obviously agree with you that not all change is good, but the poster in question implied that those who don't cotton to anytime dining do so only because they don't like change, good or bad. That kind of ad hominem attack tries to distract from the issues by denigrating the people opposed to the poster's view.

[Oxo]

'My understanding is that you can make those choices if Princess chooses to honor them. Read the Princess boards and see how many complaints there are from posters who requested a specific table, service staff, or dining time, and were told they couldn't be accommodated, or could be accommodated only if they were willing to eat at 6:30 or 9:00 pm.'

 

Doesn't any choice you request really depend upon the cruise line and if the cruise line chooses to honor them? On our last cruise we requested a table for two. Celebrity put us at a table for 8.

 

I do read the Princess boards quite frequently just as I do this board. Your 9PM time is also incorrect. It is 8PM. People complain and even though Celebrity doesn't have PC, people complain about Traditional.

 

'You have expressed your opinion but I am not sure that you have convinced everyone that "Anytime Dining" on Princess is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that those who don't agree are simply unwilling or unable to accept change.'

 

Yes, I have expressed my opinion and I am sure that I have not convinced everyone just as you haven't convinced everyone that PC is as bad as you make it sound from your 1 time experience. I never did imply that PC is the greatest thing since 'sliced bread.' You sure have your slant on how you interpret postings. So you can express your opinion and I will mine. I am glad you don't want PC. However, wait a while and I am sure you will see it on other cruise lines and that may include RCI and Celebrity. Celebrity is changing and from what I see, it is not getting better. HAL is trying out a form of PC now.

 

As for Celebrity and the CC benefits. They have really increased the number of CC members since they started to include RCI repeaters. Most of the numbers come from RCI.

[Oxo]

'Some people like Personal Choice and that is fine...I think it breeds mediocrity and indifference by the staff...I also think that PRINCESS could have a great product with a little tweaking...just my experience, observations and opinion.'

 

Please explain why you think it breeds mediocrity and indifference by the staff. What is your experience, observations and opinion? Just interested to see why you are not for PC. I know everyone has different likes and dislikes. Do all restaurants make you eat at early or late dining times? I call that a form of PC where you can make reservations and eat when you want.

[negc]

'

 

Doesn't any choice you request really depend upon the cruise line and if the cruise line chooses to honor them? On our last cruise we requested a table for two. Celebrity put us at a table for 8.

You are pretty much correct. However, regarding seating requests there is usually a disclaimer which notes that they cannot guarantee your request will be honored but that they will make every effort to do so. But in the case of "anytime dining" which Princess promotes with the phrase: "eat when, where and with whom you want" I have yet to see a similar disclaimer. Many Princess posters have indicated that their request for a specific table, server or dining time was regularly denied, and at least one Princess official has been quoted as saying that if anyone thinks that they can reserve a table in anytime dining every night between 7:30 and 8:30 they are "dreaming".

The problem isn't the existence of anytime dining which is clearly attractive to some cruisers. The problem is Princess' refusal to make any adjustment to the dining room allotments between traditional and anytime when the numbers would justify it.

[hcat]

we are almost up to 10 cruises on X---but the main benefit will be getting Diamond ststus as well from Royal. On Royal ships with the concierge club the perk is terriffic. Also agree that the perks given by Royal are better--actual dollars off cruises...Unfortunately, while we like the look of Royal ships, it is not the same cruise experience as X Too much loud music including rap & they are gearing to a different demographic---but we enjoy both lines & hope once we hit Diamond the perks will be good! Just hope by the time we get to 10 it will not be a watered down status. My gripe has been that they should really go by how much you spend for the cruise & extras not by the number of trips...you could probably do 10 short ones in an inside cabin for the price of a few nice lenthgy & costlier concierge club trips...That's how they comp in Vegas & other resorts--by how much you spend not how many times you visit....just a thought...although you do get dbl credits for cc & suite & longer trips it is still not equal...

[canderson]

My gripe has been that they should really go by how much you spend for the cruise & extras not by the number of trips...you could probably do 10 short ones in an inside cabin for the price of a few nice lenthgy & costlier concierge club trips...That's how they comp in Vegas & other resorts--by how much you spend not how many times you visit....just a thought...although you do get dbl credits for cc & suite & longer trips it is still not equal...

Um... that IS how they do it at Celebrity, up to a point. They may not cut it as fine as you had in mind, but you may have more sailing credit with Celebrity than you think.

 

When you take the cruise, you get a point just for showing up;)

If you book a CC or Suite, you get an extra point.

If you book 12+ nights, you get an extra point.

 

Our recent 12nt in a Sky Suite garnered us 3 points worth of sailing credits, 3X what we've have received for a 7 nt inside cabin.

[DeepWaterMariner]

"Some people like Personal Choice and that is fine...I think it breeds mediocrity and indifference by the staff".

 

That sounds logical but it isn't what we've experienced on Princess. I've noticed no erosion of service using Personal Choice. We hated the idea of Personal Choice when we first heard about it but it is now our preferrence.

 

We have no loyalty to any cruise line. The perks for repeaters aren't significant enough to sway us toward a particular line (Princess has gotten our attention with free laundry and dry cleaning plus minibar setup for Elite members). We sail with just about everybody and set our expectations to match the cruise line. I can't understand how people continue to sail on the same line time after time. We get tired of the same menus, entertainment, etc. and find a change of cruise lines is like a breath of fresh air. We sail on Celebrity again in February, this following cruises on Princess, NCL, and RCI over the last year.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

HI GANG!!!

 

HI BILL!!! I will think about that repo...we love the JEWEL OF THE SEAS!!!

 

SORRY DANNO...but the pax want to hear about PC dining...I think I'll start a new thread.

 

Just a short response here: We have cruised Celebrity from the early days of Chandris on up to the creation and growth of Celebrity. Having compared the service on X and P...I can say that the dining room service on Celebrity is much better than on Princess...that is my experience. We have never...in 35 years...had a bad wait staff on Chandris/Celebrity...never. It took me 2-3 tries to find a good dining room service on my Princess cruises...YES...PC dining does breed indifference and mediocrity by the dining staff...we found it on Princess...not once or twice...we had to search out the dining room for good staff...and we did find them. Celebrity standards are tougher than Princess...the section Captains watch the wait staff a lot closer on Celebrity...these are my observations and experience...as someone who has spent his life around restaurants, kitchens, etc.

 

I am not saying the Princess experience was bad...it is just not as good as Celebrity...in my opinion.

 

ROSS