Need some perspective

[Tapi]

-to my pilot friend...I've been an Air Traffic Controller for over 30 years and I'm sure we've talked more than once. We too have equipment that breaks. I also know the lack of sympathy and that we get from flight crews even though we do the best we can to keep them informed. At some point it's not about explanations, it's about results.

 

ATCMickey

 

 

My former next door neighbor is an ATC guy, and to this day, I can’t recognize his voice on the radio even if I know I’m flying through a sector that he’s working! He’s said that he has never recognized my voice either! I guess we both have our “radio” voices. [emoji23]

 

But one thing that I’m grateful for is the fact that we’ve been able to sit down at home, and over a couple of beers (off duty of course!) discussed some of the behind the scenes of each other’s jobs, and clarified why at times each other does what we do. Having some clarity and more in depth explanations has made me develop a much greater appreciation for what Air Traffic Controllers have to deal with that many times isn’t so apparent, and I know how some pilots at times aren’t the easiest to deal with.

 

With all that said, thank you for what you do! I wholeheartedly appreciate it!

 

 

 

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[dbarton02]

Trying to decide how much to let something bother me and would really appreciate some perspective...

 

To lay the background, let me say that my kids and I are AVID Flowrider fans. It really is the reason that's kept us coming back to Royal for multiple cruises. We've talked about switching to other lines to try something new, but every time we discuss it with the kids the question always comes up...does the ship have a Flowrider? Sometimes it's hard to find something that EVERYONE really likes to do together on a cruise; but this is it.

 

In 2015 we sailed on Oasis as a family. We boarded the ship only to find the starboard Flowrider was broken and not running. We were told all week that "they're working on it", but the pump failure was never repaired and we went the whole week without it ever coming back online. Now Oasis has 2 Flowriders so it wasn't like we were without the ability to do it, but Oasis' 6000 passengers put a real demand on a single Flowrider and the lines for that one Flowrider were so unbearably long that we just quit doing it. At the time we told ourselves that Oasis was getting to be an older ship and that these kinds of things were probably getting more likely to happen.

 

Last week we sailed on Harmony. We picked that ship primarily for 2 reasons; it has a Flowrider, and that fact that it's new meant that there should be no problem with both Flowriders being usable. We were wrong. While the starboard side Flowrider was working at sail-away, by the next morning it was broken. Claim was a pump failure. We heard all week that "they're working on it", but it never came back. Once again the lines for the other Flowrider were so long that we just gave up on using it.

 

Now here's where I'd appreciate your perspectives. I get that Royal can't control things like the weather and that sometimes there are things like that that are beyond their control that cause things like inability to tender or altered itineraries...I can accept that. But the attitude last week was much like that offered for things like weather..."sorry, there's nothing we can do about it". Now I get that there probably is nothing that the guy working the Flowrider can probably do about it, but things like maintenance and repair ARE something that Royal can control. After all, this ship is only a year old and Royal is unable to get it back online for the entire cruise.

 

I've now spent a great deal of money, on 2 cruises for the express intent of spending time with my kids doing something we really love; the Flowrider. And both times Royal's response has been "oh well, there's nothing we can do about it".

 

Should there be something they can do about it? Please give me your perspective. This is really bothering me that I've now spent over $10,000, on 2 different cruises, where the one things we really went to do was never available because of something that I think Royal CAN control. Am I making too much of it?

 

ATCMickey

 

I'd see it a couple different ways for sure - and admittedly, yes, this would bother me too since I'd have spent money for the experience, and wouldn't have gotten it...so yes, that would be one.

 

The other way I thought about it (and the first that came to mind) is the fact that there's always something that could be wrong, or 'broken' during your cruise. (side note - raise your hand if you've ever read anything about a freestyle coke machine being down...:D)

These devices or attractions basically run for the better part of 14 + hours per day (if not more) for 7 days a week - 365 days per year. Something is bound to break at some point - and although it sucks - was probably just down for your cruise only.

The next trip may have seen the iFly or rock climbing wall down for whatever reason... So yeah... It can be dumb luck.

 

I remember a sailing I did with my wife on the Jewel some time ago that had one of the main elevators down for 4 of the 7 days. It happens... and we took the stairs.

 

Your car occasionally breaks, and you need to have it fixed. Your internet is supposedly on 24/7/365, but always finds some sporadic time to go down. Calls on your cell phones drop. Light Bulbs or appliances go out...

 

Sh*t happens, and it sucks when you're on the receiving end. You may have spent over $10k in cruising with RCI or any other line, and many of us have (and then some for others!), but the flow-rider isn't the only attraction, and IMO, not worth getting too worked up about.

 

Sure, it would warrant a well versed, constructive letter on your experience as I'm sure input is always valued - but like another poster responded - you're lucky enough to have the extra $10k+ to burn on something that not many get the experience of.

You're blessed - and this issue can merely be classified as (as they say) #Firstworldproblems.

[xpcdoojk]

Trying to decide how much to let something bother me and would really appreciate some perspective...

 

To lay the background, let me say that my kids and I are AVID Flowrider fans. It really is the reason that's kept us coming back to Royal for multiple cruises. We've talked about switching to other lines to try something new, but every time we discuss it with the kids the question always comes up...does the ship have a Flowrider? Sometimes it's hard to find something that EVERYONE really likes to do together on a cruise; but this is it.

 

In 2015 we sailed on Oasis as a family. We boarded the ship only to find the starboard Flowrider was broken and not running. We were told all week that "they're working on it", but the pump failure was never repaired and we went the whole week without it ever coming back online. Now Oasis has 2 Flowriders so it wasn't like we were without the ability to do it, but Oasis' 6000 passengers put a real demand on a single Flowrider and the lines for that one Flowrider were so unbearably long that we just quit doing it. At the time we told ourselves that Oasis was getting to be an older ship and that these kinds of things were probably getting more likely to happen.

 

Last week we sailed on Harmony. We picked that ship primarily for 2 reasons; it has a Flowrider, and that fact that it's new meant that there should be no problem with both Flowriders being usable. We were wrong. While the starboard side Flowrider was working at sail-away, by the next morning it was broken. Claim was a pump failure. We heard all week that "they're working on it", but it never came back. Once again the lines for the other Flowrider were so long that we just gave up on using it.

 

Now here's where I'd appreciate your perspectives. I get that Royal can't control things like the weather and that sometimes there are things like that that are beyond their control that cause things like inability to tender or altered itineraries...I can accept that. But the attitude last week was much like that offered for things like weather..."sorry, there's nothing we can do about it". Now I get that there probably is nothing that the guy working the Flowrider can probably do about it, but things like maintenance and repair ARE something that Royal can control. After all, this ship is only a year old and Royal is unable to get it back online for the entire cruise.

 

I've now spent a great deal of money, on 2 cruises for the express intent of spending time with my kids doing something we really love; the Flowrider. And both times Royal's response has been "oh well, there's nothing we can do about it".

 

Should there be something they can do about it? Please give me your perspective. This is really bothering me that I've now spent over $10,000, on 2 different cruises, where the one things we really went to do was never available because of something that I think Royal CAN control. Am I making too much of it?

 

ATCMickey

 

Have never had a single catastrophic failure like you have had twice (that truly sucks). I will say I have found one cruise that was a unicorn, you know the cruise, where the flowrider is open and you can do stand-up as much as you can stand, that was a 9 day cruise to Canada on the Anthem when school had already started in early September. Literally, I was in the line and I would tell the staff to play while I caught my breath. I was thrilled when a couple of people joined me on a few days. The perfect number is about 3 or 4 people that can do it. I even went to Norway on the Navigator searching for a Unicorn, but, alas, there were always about 10 of us and it was freezing cold on all but two days. So bad a couple of times the wave was closed.

 

JC

[Biker19]

I will say I have found one cruise that was a unicorn, you know the cruise, where the flowrider is open and you can do stand-up as much as you can stand, that was a 9 day cruise to Canada on the Anthem when school had already started in early September.

Hope it repeats this year.:cool:

[momofmab]

As an Airline Pilot, I wish there could be a way for every passenger to experience and understand everything that goes on behind the scenes, not only at the airport, but at headquarters and in various locations in order to make each flight go.

 

When you see a flight that goes through multiple delays only to get canceled after a lengthy wait, it’s not because the airline was lying to you all along, but because it was in the process of exhausting every possible option before pulling the plug on a particular flight. This may include shuffling crews around, calling and allocating reserve crew members, extending duty periods, and offering additional incentives to off duty crew members, among others.

 

Sometimes, the last consideration is the one to materialize in order to make the flight go, but other times it’s not. On your end, it may seem like there should be a simple yes/no answer, but on our end, there are so many moving parts to a yes/no question, that it can be mind boggling for many passengers, which is why agents keep the information provided to the passengers as elementary as possible.

 

I have personally given passengers detailed insight when we have a lengthy delay that could result in a cancellation as to why it’s happening, and while some passengers have the capacity to understand what’s going on and they are satisfied with the explanation, there are many more who walk away even more frustrated and angry because the explanation leaves them more confused, and they conclude that we are hiding something from them. It’s frustrating for them, but it’s frustrating for us as well. But I can’t blame these passengers for not understanding in a few minutes what I have learned over decades of experience.

 

While I can’t vouch for every airline operation, I can tell you that for mine, cancellations are the absolute last resort. One cancellation costs us thousands of dollars in profitability and lost revenue, not to mention hundreds of personal lives that are affected by one cancelation.

 

Next time that you’re sitting at the airport waiting for a flight, convinced that the airline is lying to you, consider everything that I’ve written. And understand that while your flight is still on the board, that means that the airline is in the process of exhausting every possibility to get you where you need to go, legally and safely.

 

To translate that into this post, the same can be applied to the issue with the flowrider. If there’s no way that this piece of equipment will be up and running during the duration of the cruise, the cruise line should let the passengers categorically know. But while resources to get it operating are still available, they cruise line will continue saying that they are working on it. At the end, it may get fixed, but it may not. In my humble opinion, the best thing to do is to trust is that they are indeed working on it, rather than to believe that there’s some conspiracy theory or that the cruise line is lying.

 

 

 

 

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I have never once, as an airline passenger, been given “detailed insight” in the case of a lengthy delay, nor an explanation as to “why it’s happening”. Only that the flight is delayed. Maybe the lack of information is intentional, maybe it’s not, but as a paying passenger I would much rather have all the information so I can make a decision on whether I want to risk sitting in airport for 6 hours, or be 6 hours on the road going toward home ( we mostly travel between NC & FL, so driving is always an option). Just be truthful, give us all the information. If you’re working diligently behind the scenes to find a crew- tell me -I’ll cheer you on. If there’s not a pilot available who has had enough sleep to pilot the plane in the next 8 hours, I’d appreciate knowing that so I can make other arrangements or at least find a hotel for the night. Maybe they’re not lying, but they certainly aren’t giving all the information.

 

 

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[Biker19]

To translate that into this post, the same can be applied to the issue with the flowrider. If there’s no way that this piece of equipment will be up and running during the duration of the cruise, the cruise line should let the passengers categorically know. But while resources to get it operating are still available, they cruise line will continue saying that they are working on it. At the end, it may get fixed, but it may not. In my humble opinion, the best thing to do is to trust is that they are indeed working on it, rather than to believe that there’s some conspiracy theory or that the cruise line is lying.

The incentives for the airline to fix the issue is quite different from RCI - fixing the issue for the airline means more revenue, fixing the issue for RCI means more cost. The kind of info you get and the resources spent to fix the issue can be skewed by those incentives.

[xpcdoojk]

Hope it repeats this year.:cool:

 

I envy you.

 

I will be on the Radiance next, with no flowrider, and then the Symphony TA with a million souls in line. Then the Ovation coming from Oz.... I am not expecting a unicorn this year or next year.

 

JC

[rukkian]

I envy you.

 

I will be on the Radiance next, with no flowrider, and then the Symphony TA with a million souls in line. Then the Ovation coming from Oz.... I am not expecting a unicorn this year or next year.

 

JC

I kind of figured a ta with two flowriders would be fairly open.

 

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[smplybcause]

It has been sort of touched on, but it's not like new parts can just be bought anywhere. It's not your pool pump, it's a massive pump and pipes to be able to circulate that much water that fast. I would venture that even if they kept a spare pump on board they would have no way to get it from storage to top deck due to weight or size. Even on land they probably couldn't get it asap - I'd be surprised if the manufacturers keep a huge stock on these things and wouldn't be surprised if they're more custom.

 

 

That said, it being down freaking sucks. And it sounds like you probably cruised during a busy time as I never saw that much more than 10 in line on my cruise - though maybe my timing was during slow times. If it was that important I would have either waited or gone and bought time.

 

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[Thorben-Hendrik]

I kind of figured a ta with two flowriders would be fairly open.

 

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TA's have been VERY busy for the Flowrider!

 

Avarage estimated waiting-line

20+ riders.

 

Harmony 30+ riders very busy:eek:

[Biker19]

TA's have been VERY busy for the Flowrider!

Crappy weather (expected, especially on northern routes) does help thin the line.

[rukkian]

TA's have been VERY busy for the Flowrider!

 

Avarage estimated waiting-line

20+ riders.

 

Harmony 30+ riders very busy:eek:

That is interesting.

 

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[euphscott]

Crappy weather (expected, especially on northern routes) does help thin the line.

 

Bring Your Own Wetsuit!

[Biker19]

Bring Your Own Wetsuit!

I and many others do. That's how you can tell someone is on their first TA - they don't have one.

[IceManCan]

I will be cruising Harmony in two week. I will be devastated if the flowrider is down.

 

I cruise because there is something for everyone. My kids can do their thing, My wife can visit the spa and sit in a beach chair and read a book and for me, I flowride. Without it cruising would not be my cup of tea. I would get bored very quickly. I am not a fan of most of the ports as they are over croweded and not in the parts of countries I would generally choose to visit. I flowride from morning till evening and enjoy the nightlife on the cruise. If they were continually broken my cruising days would be numbered.

 

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[Thorben-Hendrik]

Crappy weather (expected, especially on northern routes) does help thin the line.

Not so much anymore....when it was freezing and you needed to talk the staff into even opening the Flowrider about 15+ people with full wetsuits is not seldom...

And it is really too cold for such a long wait between rides!:rolleyes:

[Rala]

When Freedom, the first ship with a flowrider, lost a pump, they had to wait till they returned to port and the pump was lifted by crane up to deck 11, I didn't see this , but they had to wait to return to the home port. On a side note, it seems to me Royal's crew is trained to give the easiest answer that gets people to go away.

 

I have said for years that though Guest Services and other crew do try to be helpful(and many times they are), they will, if they can't solve your problem, tell you whatever they have to to make you go away as quickly as possible. All the while with a big smile on their face which doesn't make it any less annoying! LOL :D