Rare John&LaLa Posted June 25, 2018 #151 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Well I disagree about the ship not being responsible about the curfew. The victim had to walk down a corridor or take an elevator or something to get to the library. Those areas should have been monitored as well. I've never seen a library next to a cabin either. So he had to either get there somehow...or...and this hasn't been mentioned yet....lured there somehow Why isn't anyone questioning why he would be there in the 1st place? My take.... He was forced in there by the father and friend which makes it ever scarier that 2 men to get a 13 yo into the library without being noticed ....did they teleport themselves? Nope they walked across decks ...up or down stairs...plus they had to find the kid first. Very unsettling. Just think it through...why would he go to the library on his own? Ever. He was lured imho either by the father or perhaps the daughter....remember we don't know what he said to her....but my mind runs the gamut of the possibilities. Imho everyone involved is a punk and fortunately the father and friend have been jailed...but the kid...probably a real winner anyway....is still a victim. Sent from my iPad using Forums Library is between elevator banks, very open. Lots of comfy chairs to sit in. It may be cabins now after the refit And I believe we do know what he said to her You might want to read back a bit Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggie cruises Posted June 25, 2018 #152 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Question: How many of you will never cruise on RCL again because this happened? I hear a lot of outrage. But how outraged are you really? Not really an issue for me and mine as we are in bed before midnight as we prefer to wake up early to enjoy the ports and my young adult kids stick together and have no need to ever speak or get to know anyone in the ship. We do family stuff. Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggie cruises Posted June 25, 2018 #153 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Yes he was, but the perpatrator was not RCCL. And what difference does liquor make? These "gentlemen" could have been just as abussive sober as drunk. It was their moral character that was at fault. And they should suffer the most extreme penalty. And just how easy do you think it is to determine just how drunk someone is? In many cases, it is extremely hard to detect...or do you think the bartenders should employ breathalizers. A little levity on both sides of this issue would be nice. BTW, what does the cruise contract say about it? Omg the point is there was video in place that the ship should have monitored but didn't ...especially since this was a remote unused area of the ship!!! Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelheather Posted June 25, 2018 #154 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I have children that are in that age group. It scares the crap out of us that my kids are becoming more independent. I still wont allow my kids to sign themselves out of the kids area. My oldest daughter is a tween. How long can we keep her on the parental leash? Not much longer. However, on a cruise ship I would never allow her to be roaming around alone, especially in the middle of the night. Its very easy to be a Monday morning QB, and always have the right answers, but things do happen even with the most diligent parental guidance. The strange thing is we are all (at one time or another) live life with a false sense of security. For example most people don’t put a seat belt on in a taxi., we hold babies on our laps on planes not belted in. We so desperately take our vacations as an escape from our reality. We let our guards down. But, when the bad things happen... we point fingers. Yes some of these horrible events could have been prevented with common sense. But parents are not perfect. Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare John&LaLa Posted June 25, 2018 #155 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Omg the point is there was video in place that the ship should have monitored but didn't ...especially since this was a remote unused area of the ship!!! Sent from my iPad using Forums It is neither remote or unused. Where did you get that from Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElaineKeagy Posted June 25, 2018 #156 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Does not make any difference who is at fault. A CHILD WAS SCARRED FOR LIFE. His parents will never forgive themselves. Parents going a big Dollar settlement. Their child will have to relive and testify. They do not seem to be too concerned about his emotional well-being. A childs innocence has been taken away. Are we talking about the same child that offered the girl a keychain for her virginity? Yes we are. And that young innocent child was a already a little prick at age 13 Sent from my iPad using Forums Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smplybcause Posted June 25, 2018 #157 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Most people know that you need to initially sue any and all that could be liable...then the judge certifies who should or shouldn't be sued. You need to do this so as to be sure all possible defendants are considered. The judge has already said rccl is the defendant that the plaintiff should be suing Btw...posters will imply that means I'm saying rccl is guilty...nope...I'm saying the judge is saying if anyone can be held responsible...rccl might be the one Sent from my iPad using Forums Omg the judge doesn't "verify who should or shouldn't be sued". That's not how it works. A judge decides if motions are valid or not based on law and precedent. All the judge said by not dismissing it is that either law or precedent doesn't agree with their motion to dismiss. (And someone might know legalese better than me) A judge not agreeing with a motion to dismiss does not give the lawsuit any more validity than it had before, it just means he doesn't have the power to dismiss it offhand. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_G Posted June 25, 2018 #158 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Add me to the list of active and former LEO's on this thread who will tell you that video surveillance is rarely monitored 24/7. Unless the cruise line conveyed to passengers in some way that they were being monitored or the cruise line has a policy that requires monitoring, the mere presence of surveillance cameras does not create an obligation to monitor them. On a side note, even if the cameras were monitored, the chances of this crime be prevented are probably little to none. I've seen enough video surveillance where you couldn't tell an ass from an elbow so instead of ripping the cruise line for not preventing this incident, give them credit for having had it recorded so these guys went to jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted June 25, 2018 #159 Share Posted June 25, 2018 maggie, I hate to do this because your posts are extremely entertaining, but please stop the ignorant bs, it is an embarrassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDC1 Posted June 25, 2018 #160 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I have no idea what ftlog means. You didn't answer my question. And I would bet royal has all public spaces under surveillance - it's not like the library is the only place. And there's plenty of nooks on ships that can't simply be locked up. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk They have cameras in many areas that are taped, that does not mean surveillance which would means active monitoring, closely watching. Take the cases where someone goes overboard. The do not know when it is happening, but once they know an event has occurred they can go back and see what did take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDC1 Posted June 25, 2018 #161 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Most people know that you need to initially sue any and all that could be liable...then the judge certifies who should or shouldn't be sued. You need to do this so as to be sure all possible defendants are considered. The judge has already said rccl is the defendant that the plaintiff should be suing Btw...posters will imply that means I'm saying rccl is guilty...nope...I'm saying the judge is saying if anyone can be held responsible...rccl might be the one Sent from my iPad using Forums Not quite. The judge is saying that he cannot exclude RCCL based upon the law and the merits of the case. Not unusual in cases like this. As with many other cases in the US system this will be determined largely in jury selection and the venue, not the merits and even if RCCL loses, would not be surprised if it would get overturned on appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggie cruises Posted June 25, 2018 #162 Share Posted June 25, 2018 It is neither remote or unused. Where did you get that from Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Doubtful it's used at 2am Remote in that it's usually not located in the atrium However your post actually reinforces the need for it to be monitored Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merion_Mom Posted June 25, 2018 #163 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Actually at 2am the most remote spots in the ship are the ones that need the most surveillance The casino needs cameras to stop cheaters but certainly not to stop an assault in a crowded casino The library door should have been locked at 2am. No need for a closed in room to be open. It's a perfect spot for attack and the ship should recognize this. They shut down pools water slides etc at night at some published time don't they? Why is that I wonder? Oh yes to keep people safe They put up wet floor signs They rope off entrance to the open promenade decks during high winds. Again why is that? Oh yes...a safety precaution The library should have set hours and then locked. No need for access to the library at 2am especially since they don't want to monitor its security cameras. Bottom line is remote areas of the ship need the most surveillance Either lock them or watch them. Sent from my iPad using Forums Well I disagree about the ship not being responsible about the curfew. The victim had to walk down a corridor or take an elevator or something to get to the library. Those areas should have been monitored as well. I've never seen a library next to a cabin either. So he had to either get there somehow...or...and this hasn't been mentioned yet....lured there somehow Why isn't anyone questioning why he would be there in the 1st place? My take.... He was forced in there by the father and friend which makes it ever scarier that 2 men to get a 13 yo into the library without being noticed ....did they teleport themselves? Nope they walked across decks ...up or down stairs...plus they had to find the kid first. Very unsettling. Just think it through...why would he go to the library on his own? Ever. He was lured imho either by the father or perhaps the daughter....remember we don't know what he said to her....but my mind runs the gamut of the possibilities. Imho everyone involved is a punk and fortunately the father and friend have been jailed...but the kid...probably a real winner anyway....is still a victim. Sent from my iPad using Forums Have you ever even been on a Royal Caribbean ship? How about the Independence of the Seas? The "library" is not a "room" that can be locked. It is an open area on Deck 7 by the aft elevators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggie cruises Posted June 25, 2018 #164 Share Posted June 25, 2018 maggie, I hate to do this because your posts are extremely entertaining, but please stop the ignorant bs, it is an embarrassment. Nope what's an embarrassment is that so many here think rccl didn't need to monitor their cameras Or That the parents are at fault Or That rccl shouldn't be more cognizant as to the happenings in the ship at 2am I guess I'm ignorant to suggest the library be locked at 2am? Tell me why do they put rope netting over the pools? Why do they do that I wonder? Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggie cruises Posted June 25, 2018 #165 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Omg the judge doesn't "verify who should or shouldn't be sued". That's not how it works. A judge decides if motions are valid or not based on law and precedent. All the judge said by not dismissing it is that either law or precedent doesn't agree with their motion to dismiss. (And someone might know legalese better than me) A judge not agreeing with a motion to dismiss does not give the lawsuit any more validity than it had before, it just means he doesn't have the power to dismiss it offhand. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk Ok then...how about this...the judge decided the motion was valid. Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted June 25, 2018 #166 Share Posted June 25, 2018 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare John&LaLa Posted June 25, 2018 #167 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Doubtful it's used at 2am Remote in that it's usually not located in the atrium However your post actually reinforces the need for it to be monitored Sent from my iPad using Forums Have you been on a Voyager or Freedom ship? Deck 7 overlooking Promenade. Very open Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smplybcause Posted June 25, 2018 #168 Share Posted June 25, 2018 They have cameras in many areas that are taped, that does not mean surveillance which would means active monitoring, closely watching. Take the cases where someone goes overboard. The do not know when it is happening, but once they know an event has occurred they can go back and see what did take place. I wasn't aware there was a big difference between the terms as it's not my forte. I meant what you said. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggie cruises Posted June 25, 2018 #169 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Have you been on a Voyager or Freedom ship? Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Doesn't matter as I've been in numerous ships. It was a room that an accomplice was able to stand by the door in order to watch for pax. The perp had a private room to attack the boy. However if you are implying on this class of ship that the library is in a well traveled area then all the more reason to monitor it. The argument will always go back to this....there was an unmonitored area at 2am which is a known time for incidents to happen and this is true on all ships all lines so rccl should have stepped up security at this time. Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare John&LaLa Posted June 25, 2018 #170 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Nope what's an embarrassment is that so many here think rccl didn't need to monitor their cameras Or That the parents are at fault Or That rccl shouldn't be more cognizant as to the happenings in the ship at 2am I guess I'm ignorant to suggest the library be locked at 2am? Tell me why do they put rope netting over the pools? Why do they do that I wonder? Sent from my iPad using Forums Ignorant in that you can't understand the library is the passageway between elevator banks on a cabin deck Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted June 25, 2018 #171 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Doesn't matter as I've been in numerous ships. It was a room that an accomplice was able to stand by the door in order to watch for pax. The perp had a private room to attack the boy. Not private. Do you know the difference between logic and emotion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare John&LaLa Posted June 25, 2018 #172 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Nope what's an embarrassment is that so many here think rccl didn't need to monitor their cameras Or That the parents are at fault Or That rccl shouldn't be more cognizant as to the happenings in the ship at 2am I guess I'm ignorant to suggest the library be locked at 2am? Tell me why do they put rope netting over the pools? Why do they do that I wonder? Sent from my iPad using Forums That's actually dangerous in my book. You could fall in and get tangled. That could be a lot more common than this assault Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare John&LaLa Posted June 25, 2018 #173 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Doesn't matter as I've been in numerous ships. It was a room that an accomplice was able to stand by the door in order to watch for pax. The perp had a private room to attack the boy. Sent from my iPad using Forums You might want to look at the deck plan Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smplybcause Posted June 25, 2018 #174 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Ok then...how about this...the judge decided the motion was valid. Sent from my iPad using Forums Still incorrect. Please try again. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggie cruises Posted June 25, 2018 #175 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Ignorant in that you can't understand the library is the passageway between elevator banks on a cabin deck Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Cabin decks should be monitored Elevator decks should be monitored Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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