Moral/Ethical Question

[PattyW]

If you were given NCL's approval to book a handicapped cabin (not based upon a physical handicap) but based upon another need, would you feel bad booking it?

 

Do you think NCL would just bump me to a more expensive cabin that would fit my needs as well should a truely handicapped person request the room? (If so, this would assuage my guilt)

[Bluedevil]

Speaking as a mom of a physically challenged child I would only take that cabin if It was because I needed it for her, No Matter What.

In other words:

Don't park in a handicap space unless you or your passenger is handicapped.

JMO

[hotspur]

If you were given NCL's approval to book a handicapped cabin (not based upon a physical handicap) but based upon another need, would you feel bad booking it?

I suppose it would depend on what the "another need" happened to be. For example, if it was to get a cabin with more room for two additional people, I might not feel so good about it. Also, I'm not sure why I would feel that NCL should have any obligation to give me a higher-category cabin should a handicapped individual subsequently require the cabin I was originally given.

[lawofraven]

As a daughter who cares for a physically and mentally challenged father, I would take the cabin if your other need is just as good as a reason. Are you willing to pay more for another cabin if a handicapped person needs it? If so then tell NCL or TA that is what you are willing to do. NCL will sell that cabin to someone (handicapped or not) rather than have it empty, why can't you have it?

[SailAways]

It would seem if you are willing to give the cabin up to someone who is qualified as "Physically Handicapped" if the need arises, there certainly should be no problem.

 

Apparently you have researched this due to whatever need you personally have, with NCL. You have at least thought ahead, and are willing to move into another cabin if this one is needed.

 

Many times these cabins go empty, and the cruise line itself will randomly assign them to other than handicapped.

 

You seem to be a very considerate person in this regard, so IMHO, there is no problem with your booking, if all is agreeable with NCL, and you would willingly relocate if the need arises.

 

Have a wonderful cruise.

[immargaret]

I have had TA's tell me that NCL will ask us to change cabins if a handicapped person wants to book the HC cabin. I have had Handicapped cruisers tell me on forum boards that when they call to book a HC cabin, if they are already booked they are really out of luck, NCL doesn't offer to request the other cruiser to change cabins. I don't believe I would book the HC cabin unless we you are very close to your cruise date (1-2 weeks) and the cabin is still available.

 

I've never seen a post from any cruiser who has been asked to move from a HC cabin in all my years of reading CC. I guess it would depend upon your "need" for the cabin...

 

:)

[Arwenmark]

If you were given NCL's approval to book a handicapped cabin (not based upon a physical handicap) but based upon another need, would you feel bad booking it?

 

Do you think NCL would just bump me to a more expensive cabin that would fit my needs as well should a truely handicapped person request the room? (If so, this would assuage my guilt)

 

As for booking for a need there are more than one kind of disability, booking just because it is bigger is not a need.

that said I can assure you that NCL will NOT move you in favor of a disabled person who needs the cabin. I have been fighting this issue for years and NCL is one of the worst offenders here.

 

booking it or being assigned it close to sailing is another thing, if someone comes along then it is just too bad, but booking them early when not truely needed is very bad as there are very few of them per ship.

You say you have a need, is so then it is not a question if not then don't book it.

[PattyW]

You're probably wondering what my "need" is. It's pretty basic. DH and I want to sail with our two young children and all be in the same room. DD with be 3 and DS will be 1.5. We were looking at AF cabins on the Jewel. Even though I assured NCL that we didn't "need" a crib and that DD and DS could share the sofabed, they told me that it was "required" that they book the room with a crib for all passengers under 2.

 

After much arguing back and forth, they offered as possible solutions - (1) booking an inside/outside cabin that had bunks, but (rightly or wrongly) I didn't want my 3 year old suspended from the ceiling to sleep for a week (2) booking two adjoining rooms, not ideal to me because, selfishly, I don't want to sleep in a different room from DH all cruise and I wouldn't put it past my 3 year old to figure out how to unlock the cabin door should she sleep in the second room with her brother. Not to mention, we'd lose the "no cruise fare" discount for the baby because he'd be a second passenger; and (3) move up to a suite, but this was so much more expensive.

 

I was ticked because I said - I don't need a crib. You can book 4 adults in the AF cabins, but because of my situation, you want me to either "endanger" my three year old risking her falling out of bed from high up (not to mention middle of the night potty trips), or spend a thousand more dollars to have multiple rooms or a larger room. It just didn't seem fair or right to me. So then the supervisor said I could book the handicapped room in the AF category (all I wanted was a waiver of the crib requirement) and that would be the best solution.

 

Of course, that's a solution I can't complain about, but it has placed me in this moral dilemma.

[CruisinMatt]

Why don't you just book the AF with the crib and not use it? :confused: - what am I missing??

[PattyW]

They claim (and I have to believe them) that there is not room for the sofabed to be pulled out and for the crib to be set up at the same time.

 

So, you can sleep 4 adults in the room, but not two adults and two children if one if them is under the age of 2.

 

I kept telling them, don't give me the crib, don't book it with the crib, I don't want the crib, I won't use the crib. But everyone I spoke to said, we can't do that. It's "required".

 

Like I said, I wasn't trying to take a handicapped cabin. I just wanted a waiver of the crib requriement.

[Arwenmark]

Patty, I have another question for you, How many other people on the cruise do you suppose have a similar situation? have kids and want the room, or have more adults and want the room etc.? cruise ships depending on the age of the ship have from 1 to about 28 or so HC cabins in total on the ship. if everyone who wants room for a crib books one ?

 

I think you are a good person or you would not have asked the question but I also think asking it you know the answer. unfortunately if you pass on it most likely some other AB person will grab it once it is being held or booked and if you then let it go or cancel it goes back into the general inventory. Normally HC cabins are released by the special needs department unless they have been booked and cancelled as I say.

[bububr]

But it doesn't seem like a cruise is RIGHT for your family at this time.

 

Maybe wait until the kids get a little older, a year or two.

 

I think if HAL allows you to book a Disabled cabin that is their business, however, booking it because you have children is NOT the correct thing to do IMHO. These cabins were designed with one thing in mind, allowing those less able to cruise. Yes sometimes the cabins are not booked by a DP and do go to a 'guarantee' room reservation.

 

The way I see it is yes, you do deserve a vacation, but it sounds like circumstances and finances are limiting your choices. Save up for a couple years and book a suite, or a 'family cabin' if you can. Also my question is, Why would the kids have to sleep on the upper berths? whats wrong with you and your husband taking them?

 

We all make moral judgements in our lifes....Is it fair to a handicapped person that you took the room because you DECIDED to have children? My answer is no. And looking back, what kind of example are you setting for them.

 

Its your decision, but I have a feeling you have already made up your mind.:(

 

Dave:eek:

[PattyW]

Thanks for all of your thought provoking responses. I assumed that should NCL have a person who needed the cabin more than I, that they would bump me into a cabin we would fit in according to their somewhat arbitrary rules (meaning an AB suite). I was under the impression that there are always cabins available in all categories on a cruiseship until it is fully booked. If you want an inside cabin and the inside cabins are technically sold out, they will sell you a guaranteed inside cabin and bump someone else up to an outside. Same for outside, balcony, etc. I figured I'd book this room and if two handicapped people came by who wanted minisuites, then they'd allow the handicapped person to book the cabin and bump me into an unsold suite. I guess I'm wrong.

 

Please recall that I wasn't asking NCL to build me a mini-suite that would accomodate a pulled out sofabed and a crib. I was just asking to allow me to book the room without using their age deadline for a crib.

 

I pulled out my information and it would cost $4,143.28 for the AF minisuite, $5,357.28 for the AB suite, and $6,022.28 for two cabins. That's a big difference to me, especially because I am willing to forego the crib. If I really needed to use the crib, then that would be different, but DD was climbing out of her crib at around 18 months (hence moved to a twin) and I have no guarantee that this one will still be in a crib at that time either. Seems like a silly rule to me and one that should be capable of being bent/waived to me. That's all.

[SailAways]

I now do not see your situation as one which I would agree deserves a handicapped cabin. ( I posted earlier with a different view prior to entire situation being revealed).

 

I am sorry, but there really does seem to be a misunderstanding here as to what can or cannot be done with the crib. Surely your 1.5 year old child can still sleep in a crib.

 

As far as the bunk, you or your DH could sleep in it without falling out.

 

It seems your requests are not able to be met, and you are struggling to have it your way, without really thinking the entire situation through.

I agree that you do deserve a vacation, but perhaps you and your family are not quite ready for this cruise - expense wise.

It seems that you have the exact sleeping configuration which you desire in your mind, and are not willing to flex with what can reasonably be provided by the cruise line.. We really do have to compromise with the spaces provided, and be fair to the cruise line, and the rest of the passengers.

 

I would have to agree with others, that this truly is not a situation which calls for you "needing" the handicapped cabin.

 

I hope you do reach a satisfactory conclusion, and if a cruise is in your near future, may it be a happy one.

[luv2cruise99]

Why not book the inside/outside with two bunks and two lowers and then have either you or your husband sleep in one of the bunks so that the 3 year old can sleep on the lower bed? Definitely not ideal, but it would work. Or am I missing something here?

 

Also, while they may require that you book the room with a crib, I would bet that once onboard you can have it removed to make room for the sofa bed.

[PattyW]

Having DH and/or I sleep in the upper berth(s) is actually a very reasonable suggestion and we may take advantage of that. I'd actually never thought of it prior to starting this thread.

 

I guess, just in response to the comments that this situation doesn't "deserve" a handicapped cabin - I agree with you all, that's why I created the post. It made my heart catch in my throat when the supervisor made the suggestion because that's not what I wanted. I told her I'd have to think about it posted it on this board.

 

I, as I stated above, I thought it would be a minor problem, however, because I thought that they would bump me if a handicapped person came along.

 

The age rule seems just arbitrary to me. Of course my 1.5 year old COULD sleep in a crib. But, my 1.5 year old could just as easily not sleep in a crib. It would be like someone saying, oh - you're 80, then you can't go on this excursion, you're too old. And the 80 year old saying - no, I'm not too old, I can run a 10 minute mile. And the ship saying, sorry, the rule is the rule. Just arbitrary.

[greatam]

Why, oh why, would you take a 1 1/2 and a 3 yo on a cruise? I can't see them enjoying it very much-they are certainly too young to "appreciate" the experience. And you will be taking care of the kids 24/7, as they will be too young for the kids programs. No swimming in the pools unless they are potty trained. I sure wouldn't think this was much of a vacation.

 

Take em to Disney World, Disneyland, Legoland, Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, etc. Anyplace that is for kids. Lot more fun for them and YOU.

[Arwenmark]

I agree it does seem arbitrary, and you should certainly cruise if you want to I hope the idea of sleeping in the bunks works for you. Sorry this thread is taking a turn toward your decision to cruise at all.

[DEL67]

I can sympathize with your problem and I truly appreciating your for asking the question. However, as the wife of someone who can not cruise if we do not have a handicap cabin. can tell you from experience that cruiselines are much more likely to tell someone needing a handicap room that there are none availabe than to move people who do not need it. As a result, your reserving a handicap cabin may mean that someone who truly needs it can not cruise.

 

In addition, are you aware of some of the disadvantages of a handicap cabin for you. These usually include:

 

- A raised toilet

- A roll-in shower with a curtain instead of a door resulting in water all

over the bathroom when you shower

- Little or no bathroom storage due to a roll-under sin

[PattyW]

First, my question was not - "Should I cruise?" If I had asked that question, then I would have thanked you kindly for your opinion. However, I did not and therefore I do not.

 

Clearly, you either don't have children or else your children are grown because you are ill informed as to the nature of the kids clubs on cruises. My three year old (this will be her third cruise, by the way) is old enough to participate in the children's programs on any cruiseline out there. Also, guess what? She's potty trained, so she can swim in the pool, too. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one.

 

And do you really think my 1.5 year old is going to "get anything" out of any vacation we take? I can see it now. Look at that gorgeous view of the Grand Canyon, Ryan! I can't wait to reminisce about this when you are 30. Also, I guess I don't know what you mean about taking care of my children 24/7. First off, as a parent that's my duty and my privilege. Second, how exactly am I going to not have to take care of my children 24/7 anytime for the next 18 years? Can I just forget about them at Disneyland, Legoland or the Grand Canyon?

 

DH and I both work and consider it a special treat to be with our children 24/7 for a week and wouldn't dream of leaving them with relatives, etc. We've cruised with a child as young as 11 months. I know what I'm "getting into", swimming rules and all.

[icanflossu]

Patty, you go girl. Don't let the old biddies on this board discourage you from traveling with your children. I've been with a two year old and he loved it. We go every year and I wouldn't think of not taking my children. Maybe the farts that think children shouldn't cruise should take their thumbs out of their....anyway, they should travel on an adult only line or pay for a premium cruise ship line. I understand your dilemma and feel for you. I might suggest that you try another cruise ship line that doesn't have the crib rule. Although, with freestyle dining, NCL is the best with the kids. Good Luck, if you need any encouragement, I'm here for ya :)

[SailAways]

Before this thread gets any uglier, Patty - have you been able to sort of come to a conclusion?

 

Obviously, if you have sailed before with children, you are well aware of what to expect in the 24/7 department.

 

Most here are not trying to discourage you from doing what you want to do, but are truly trying to suggest options with helpful hints.

 

Keep your focus, and hopefully, some of the information which is being given will be helpful to you.

 

I believe we all forget from time to time, that a cruise is just another vacation. The logistics certainly are different, but most of us have always vacationed with our children, just not on a cruise.

 

You are fortunate to be in a position to take this sort of vacation with your little ones. Enjoy!

[LV2COOK]

Okay here's my 2 cents worth. We took our daughter on her first cruise at age 9mos. She probably did need a crib and they indeed offered one. When we boarded the ship and got to our cabin we realized that our bed configuration would allow her to sleep with us. So when the cabin boy brought the travel size crib we politely declined and he advised us that it would be available anytime we changed our mind. A few times during the cruise we had it brought it for naps. I just wouldn't let it be an issue. Once onboard nobody will be concerned with your sleeping arrangements. I admire your courage in cruising with 2 so young. Our daughter is now 15 and we still cruise every year.... this year going to 2 cabins and bringing a friend for her. It will all work out.:cool:

[LV2COOK]

Oh and one more thing. On that first cruise we encountered many nay-sayers....who told us our daughter would never remember it...... to which I replied...."We will never forget it..." she took her very first steps in St. Maartin on Christmas day 1991!!! :D :D :D

[PattyW]

I have posted a message on the NCL board to obtain information on exactly which cabins on the Jewel have upper berths. I think, as long as we can tolerate the sqaure footage, we will go that route.