P&O Cruisers - What are things like where YOU are?

[terrierjohn]

2 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I’d agree with all of that, and it’s the only sensible way forward.  It will happen, I’m sure, but it’s a question of finding a politically acceptable way of doing it.

I also hope we are able to restart the economy without it leading to another peak. However our local paper, owned by Mirror group, published results of a survey they just completed which showed 65% of replies thought the lockdown started too late. I never cease to be amazed how hindsight suddenly makes everyone an expert forecaster.

[Harry Peterson]

Just now, Pine Man said:

 

 

That's the problem - a hell of a lot of people are not able to live with the disease - they die!

 

But primarily the elderly, and in particular those with underlying health conditions.  The vast majority of other people will recover, many with few symptoms.

[Eddie99]

Aren’t we all expert epidemiologists and virologists, not to mention logisticians, now?

I know I am 🙄

[Pine Man]

Just now, Harry Peterson said:

But primarily the elderly, and in particular those with underlying health conditions.  The vast majority of other people will recover, many with few symptoms.

 

That's all right then I suppose!

 

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, Pine Man said:

 

 

That's the problem - a hell of a lot of people are not able to live with the disease - they die!

 

No they don't.  Yes, a lot if people will die, but as of the beginning of last week, less than 400 people under the age of 45 had died.  Still too many, but again, I would repeat, thus is not the bubonic plague. So a sense of perspective. 

A lot more people will die if the continued economic lockdown continues.

[Harry Peterson]

3 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I also hope we are able to restart the economy without it leading to another peak. However our local paper, owned by Mirror group, published results of a survey they just completed which showed 65% of replies thought the lockdown started too late. I never cease to be amazed how hindsight suddenly makes everyone an expert forecaster.

It’s not hindsight I’m afraid. There were clear warnings from Italy and elsewhere which were ignored for a month.

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, Pine Man said:

 

That's all right then I suppose!

 

But the current policy is using a sledge hammer to crack a nut. It is perfectly possible to shield the vulnerable without needing to force everyone to stay at home and stop working.

[Pine Man]

I joined this forum a few months ago to get advice on some aspects of cruising and appreciate that it is more of a chat forum at the moment but I am somewhat surprised at the apparant suggestions of politically acceptable euthanasia.

[Harry Peterson]

3 minutes ago, Pine Man said:

 

That's all right then I suppose!

 

It’s by no means all right, but it’s a hard fact that has to be taken into account in planning our way out of all this.

[Harry Peterson]

Just now, Pine Man said:

I joined this forum a few months ago to get advice on some aspects of cruising and appreciate that it is more of a chat forum at the moment but I am somewhat surprised at the apparant suggestions of politically acceptable euthanasia.

Nobody is suggesting that, and nobody has suggested that.

[zap99]

4 minutes ago, Pine Man said:

 

 

That's the problem - a hell of a lot of people are not able to live with the disease - they die!

 

But most don't. Some are being positive and looking forward to a few weeks time when can decide what risks we are prepared to take. Land of hope and glory, bluebells over... etc😁

[terrierjohn]

4 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

It’s not hindsight I’m afraid. There were clear warnings from Italy and elsewhere which were ignored for a month.

I doubt that the majority of tabloid readers are as well read as you Harry, in fact unless it comes with pictures they probably skip past it.  So I still maintain that most of the survey replies were based on current knowledge and not what they were reading,  far less thinking, back in February.

[wowzz]

13 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

 Be patient

But for how long? 2  months,  6  months,  a year ?The longer we carry on as we are, the more difficult the recovery will be, and the number of people dying will vastly exceed those killed by CV19.

[pete14]

As this thread has become virus central at present, just to add that I find it curious that the leaked 2 week isolation for people coming to the country from next week is supposed to help prevent a second spike in the infection rate whereas a couple of months ago, before the first spike, it was ruled out because it wouldn’t work. An error then that they seem determined not to acknowledge or a pointless action probably coming in next week?

Edited May 9, 2020 by pete14

[Vampiress88]

26 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Just a different take on things, but to paraphrase the remarks of a medical professor earlier this week: " The vast majority of those who catch CV19 only have mild symptoms: of those with more severe symptoms, the vast majority do not need hospitalisation; of those that do need to go to hospital, the vast majority make a full recover". In other words, let's have a sense of perspective.

Without in any way downplaying the seriousness of CV19 to those with serious medical issues, or living in a care home, the government has been portraying CV19 as the equivalent of bubonic plague,  implying that catching it is, in effect a death sentence. This is patently untrue. 

We cannot continue living in this constant state of fear, with our liberties being destroyed on a daily basis, and our economy being destroyed for years to come. Mankind hasn't yet come up with a way to eradicate influenza, so the chances of any miracle anti-CV19 cure is unlikely. Even if a vaccine is developed, how long will it take to produce and then vaccinate the world's population?

We need to learn how to live with the disease, develop some hard immunity, and in the interim look after the vulnerable. Continuing to lock ourselves away for another 2, 3, or months will accomplish nothing, apart from destroying the hopes and aspirations  of future generations.

I agree with you 

[zap99]

16 minutes ago, Pine Man said:

 

That's all right then I suppose!

 

I agree with you.

[terrierjohn]

6 minutes ago, pete14 said:

As this thread has become virus central at present, just to add that I find it curious that the leaked 2 week isolation for people coming to the country from next week is supposed to help prevent a second spike in the infection rate whereas a couple of months ago, before the first spike, it was ruled out because it wouldn’t work. An error then that they seem determined not to acknowledge or a pointless action probably coming in next week?

I think the govt hope that now they will  have sufficient testing capacity , and tracing with the new app. to make it viable now  compared with 2 months ago.

Edited May 9, 2020 by terrierjohn

[Vampiress88]

13 minutes ago, wowzz said:

No they don't.  Yes, a lot if people will die, but as of the beginning of last week, less than 400 people under the age of 45 had died.  Still too many, but again, I would repeat, thus is not the bubonic plague. So a sense of perspective. 

A lot more people will die if the continued economic lockdown continues.

but again it’s a big difference between dying FROM covid19 and dying WITH. 

 

and we will not be able to compare for a long while. Wasn’t there 320k deaths in 2018 but 10 years before it was 280k. 
 

I do feel like we are still getting more frightened by the media and government than maybe we should be. 
 

I’d like to know what percentage chance your at risk etc but I can’t find it anymore. 

[Harry Peterson]

2 minutes ago, Vampiress88 said:

but again it’s a big difference between dying FROM covid19 and dying WITH. 

 

THAT is a very cogent argument!  

[pete14]

7 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I think the govt hope that now they will sufficient testing capacity  and tracing with the new app. to make it viable now  compared with 2 months ago.

But track, trace and test would not be able to keep people isolated, it will only work either if someone who thinks they are infected declares it on their phone when they have symptoms which should trigger a test or if the supposed isolated person comes close to someone who has declared symptoms. I don't suppose every visitor to the country will have a smartphone anyway.

Edited May 9, 2020 by pete14

[Pine Man]

7 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

tracing with the new app

 

I read this morning that the NHS paid a Swiss firm £3.8 million to develop the app but they are now considering changing to an app that already existed as it will be more effective.

[zap99]

7 minutes ago, pete14 said:

But test and trace would not be able to keep people isolated, it will only work if someone who thinks they are infected declares it on their phone when they have symptoms which should trigger a test. I don't suppose every visitor to the country will have a smartphone anyway.

Easy. No smart phone,no app,no entry.

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, pete14 said:

But test and trace would not be able to keep people isolated, it will only work if someone who thinks they are infected declares it on their phone when they have symptoms which should trigger a test. I don't suppose every visitor to the country will have a smartphone anyway.

The whole testing process is a big red herring really. Yes, it will tell you that you have it, so you can go and self isolate. But if you don't have it, so what? You could catch CV19 2 hours later. 

And as for test and trace - there are so many shortfalls in the system, that it is less than useless. I get a message saying that I have  been near to someone with CV 19, so I am supposed to self isolate. I do so, go shopping  on day 15, stand near someone with the app, he has the disease, and I have to self isolate again. I could spend a year in isolation!

[Harry Peterson]

13 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I think the govt hope that now they will  have sufficient testing capacity , and tracing with the new app. to make it viable now  compared with 2 months ago.

I understand that ministers  have now asked local public health directors to take charge of Covid-19 testing in English care homes because the government programme has failed so badly. That infamous 100,000 tests a day still hasn’t been achieved.

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, zap99 said:

Easy. No smart phone,no app,no entry.

But the app won't help stop the spread of the disease, because people won't voluntarily self isolate on the slight off chance they have been infected.