Best way to attract people back to P&O Cruises when some semblance of normality returns?

[zap99]

9 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I am also getting extremely annoyed at the repeated requests for the govt to apologise for the lack of PPE leading to NHS deaths. Believe the govt or not I am certain that no one involved with the efforts to provide PPE has done anything other than their best to try and source all that is needed. So why on earth should they have any need to apologise.

Just thinking back, there always has been a very large proportion of Oriental people walking round London, Rome,Paris,Venice etc with face masks and selfie sticks. Why didn't the Government build up a big stockpile......... I bet the UK stock of selfie sticks is miniscule. 

[zap99]

23 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Van Tam is quite knowledgeable, but far too long winded, and yes lots of the smaller fry have used platforms, but then again so does Tom Cruise. 

I see Prof Ferguson got busted. Do as I say, not as I do.

[NoFlyGuy]

7 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

And yet most countries in the world are struggling to get adequate supplies, do you think every government should be flogging themselves, wearing hair shirts, and making groveling apologies?

Very true. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing! People moaning now about the Nightingales not being needed.

What would have been the reaction if the NHS had not been able to cope with the cases? 

[wowzz]

7 minutes ago, zap99 said:

I see Prof Ferguson got busted. Do as I say, not as I do.

Good. He destroyed the UK dairy industry in 2001 with his advice on Foot and Mouth disease,  and was widely discredited  subsequently. 

His lady friend has done the UK a service by visiting him.

Good riddance.

[zap99]

19 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Good. He destroyed the UK dairy industry in 2001 with his advice on Foot and Mouth disease,  and was widely discredited  subsequently. 

His lady friend has done the UK a service by visiting him.

Good riddance.

Didn't know about foot&mouth, but foot in mouth comes to mind. 😁. 

Sleep well

[wowzz]

13 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Didn't know about foot&mouth, but foot in mouth comes to mind.

 

There is a rude joke in there somewhere. 

[Tommart]

8 hours ago, wowzz said:

Good. He destroyed the UK dairy industry in 2001 with his advice on Foot and Mouth disease,  and was widely discredited  subsequently. 

His lady friend has done the UK a service by visiting him.

Good riddance.

He did a lot of modelling work on Foot and Mouth (and on various other diseases) - and he was awarded the OBE for his work on Foot and Mouth.  He wasn't discredited, and is one of the world's most influential disease modellers.

 

This was a stupid error of judgement (like Boris Johnson declaring on the day that SAGE advised against shaking hands that he'd carry on shaking hands) for which he's paid the price.  Shame - we need people of his calibre to advise our lacklustre politicians.

[Tommart]

8 hours ago, NoFlyGuy said:

Very true. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing! People moaning now about the Nightingales not being needed.

What would have been the reaction if the NHS had not been able to cope with the cases? 

Actually, the NHS didn't cope.  If it had, our death rate per million population wouldn't be on a par with Italy's - the worst in Europe.

 

It appeared to cope because people dying weren't allowed anywhere near a hospital - particularly those in care homes, where huge numbers of deaths took place and are still taking place.

 

And all because we were a month late, ignoring advice from Italy, in taking any real action - still allowing people to go to major racing and sports events way after the horse had bolted.

[AnnieC]

6 minutes ago, Tommart said:

Actually, the NHS didn't cope.  If it had, our death rate per million population wouldn't be on a par with Italy's - the worst in Europe.

 

 

Incorrect. At present, and with the caveat that accurate figures are unlikely ever to be known, the worst death rate in Europe per million population is San Marino at 1,208, followed by Belgium at 692, then comes Andorra, Spain and Italy; we are 6th. Nobody knows what the final figures will be, but comparisons at the moment are extremely misleading.

 

 

[wowzz]

36 minutes ago, Tommart said:

He did a lot of modelling work on Foot and Mouth (and on various other diseases) - and he was awarded the OBE for his work on Foot and Mouth.  He wasn't discredited, and is one of the world's most influential disease modellers.

Perhaps you might tell that to many of the dairy farmers I worked with in 2001.  I doubt they would agree with you.

And his modelling of the current epidemic has hardly been brilliant, has it? 

[Harry Peterson]

36 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Perhaps you might tell that to many of the dairy farmers I worked with in 2001.  I doubt they would agree with you.

And his modelling of the current epidemic has hardly been brilliant, has it? 

The dairy farmers were hardly impartial observers, were they?  The award of the OBE wasn’t for no reason!

 

And the present epidemic?  Without his warnings to government there’d have been no lockdown and his predicted hugely higher death rate would have taken place. There was a complete change of direction on his advice which has saved tens of thousands of lives.

 

He’s unpopular with certain factions who’d prefer to see the deaths than the financial impact caused by the lockdown.

[wowzz]

12 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

The award of the OBE wasn’t for no reason

Jimmy Saville got a knighthood. I don't think giving someone a decoration is, in itself, of relevance.

Perhaps you would tell us why you believe the 2001 Foot & Mouth outbreak was handled correctly, as most impartial observers would say it was a shambles.  

[zap99]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

The dairy farmers were hardly impartial observers, were they?  The award of the OBE wasn’t for no reason!

 

And the present epidemic?  Without his warnings to government there’d have been no lockdown and his predicted hugely higher death rate would have taken place. There was a complete change of direction on his advice which has saved tens of thousands of lives.

 

He’s unpopular with certain factions who’d prefer to see the deaths than the financial impact caused by the lockdown.

Don't go out, wash your hands, protect the NHS, pop over to mine for a bit . It Don't apply to us luvver, only them ordinary folk.

[Harry Peterson]

2 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Don't go out, wash your hands, protect the NHS, pop over to mine for a bit . It Don't apply to us luvver, only them ordinary folk.

As someone else said, he made a stupid misjudgment, as did the Scottish Chief Medical Officer who did much the same thing.  That doesn’t put his scientific and academic skills into question though, and if we’d followed his advice sooner, instead of sitting on our hands, we’d be coming out of lockdown now, along with other countries, and with a far lower death rate.

 

If government ministers had followed the rules, the PM would have stayed in his main Downing Street home, rather than visiting his second home.

[zap99]

7 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

As someone else said, he made a stupid misjudgment, as did the Scottish Chief Medical Officer who did much the same thing.  That doesn’t put his scientific and academic skills into question though, and if we’d followed his advice sooner, instead of sitting on our hands, we’d be coming out of lockdown now, along with other countries, and with a far lower death rate.

 

If government ministers had followed the rules, the PM would have stayed in his main Downing Street home, rather than visiting his second home.

So is ok if we all pop round to see "friends". If caught, say sorry. Don't do as I do, do as I say?As for following the rules, was it ok for HRH Charles to pop up to Scotland?. Special people and ordinary people. One rule for all please.😁

[Harry Peterson]

6 minutes ago, zap99 said:

So is ok if we all pop round to see "friends". If caught, say sorry. Don't do as I do, do as I say?As for following the rules, was it ok for HRH Charles to pop up to Scotland?. Special people and ordinary people. One rule for all please.😁

I agree. It certainly isn’t OK and I don’t condone it.  And as you say, he’s by no means the only one. Can’t see the PM resigning over his breaching the same rule though.

[pete14]

3 hours ago, AnnieC said:

Incorrect. At present, and with the caveat that accurate figures are unlikely ever to be known, the worst death rate in Europe per million population is San Marino at 1,208, followed by Belgium at 692, then comes Andorra, Spain and Italy; we are 6th. Nobody knows what the final figures will be, but comparisons at the moment are extremely misleading.

 

 

I agree with you that comparisons at the moment are extremely misleading and I suspect few would disagree. As that is the case, why on earth do the government daily briefings continually include a graph of comparisons between selected different countries (USA, France, Spain, Italy, S.Korea etc). They know they are misleading but they still include them in the presentation. It makes me wonder what else they are presenting that is misleading. Personally, I will only be impressed with ‘Because science / SAGE says so’ and ‘we are following the science’ when they put the science they are following, and the SAGE minutes into the public domain for scrutiny. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by pete14

[kalos]

A senior government minister has admitted mistakes have been made over the UK's handling of coronavirus , 

including not scaling up testing fast enough.

Security minister James Brokenshire said "clearly" there should have been more COVID-19 tests "earlier" as the

country's death toll outstripped Italy's to become the worst in Europe.

He said "nobody's trying to duck away that this has been a perfect response" but went on to say the "appropriate time"for reflections will come "once we are through this pandemic".

His last part of his response is what we need right now ,not finger pointing but getting on with putting things right where possible. All countries would do things better given the chance .

Today's parliament  question time will possibly show us what will and should be done going forward .

Should have and could have is what sells the press of this world .I think we are more interested in what will be done .

Edited May 6, 2020 by kalos

[zap99]

3 hours ago, wowzz said:

Perhaps you might tell that to many of the dairy farmers I worked with in 2001.  I doubt they would agree with you.

And his modelling of the current epidemic has hardly been brilliant, has it? 

That's a good idea to help P&O get cruises moving again. Have a mini dairy farm in the kids club. I wouldn't mind having a look at that. Any other good ideas for the kids club?. In the buffet, they could have a best vest compo.

[pete14]

21 minutes ago, kalos said:

A senior government minister has admitted mistakes have been made over the UK's handling of coronavirus , 

including not scaling up testing fast enough.

Security minister James Brokenshire said "clearly" there should have been more COVID-19 tests "earlier" as the

country's death toll outstripped Italy's to become the worst in Europe.

He said "nobody's trying to duck away that this has been a perfect response" but went on to say the "appropriate time"for reflections will come "once we are through this pandemic".

His last part of his response is what we need right now ,not finger pointing but getting on with putting things right where possible. All countries would do things better given the chance .

Today's parliament  question time will possibly show us what will and should be done going forward .

Should have and could have is what sells the press of this world .I think we are more interested in what will be done .

I don’t disagree kalos. I am a bit worried though by the reason for what will be done being because ‘we’re following scientific advice /SAGE advice’ . I am no scientist but I would like the scientific advice and SAGE minutes to be put into the public domain so that other scientists can scrutinise it and confirm it or suggest flaws that could be rectified. The consequences of errors are too high to be left unscrutinised by other experts.

[Harry Peterson]

10 minutes ago, pete14 said:

I don’t disagree kalos. I am a bit worried though by the reason for what will be done being because ‘we’re following scientific advice /SAGE advice’ . I am no scientist but I would like the scientific advice and SAGE minutes to be put into the public domain so that other scientists can scrutinise it and confirm it or suggest flaws that could be rectified. The consequences of errors are too high to be left unscrutinised by other experts.

That's absolutely right - spot on.  Far too much at stake here for this level of secrecy. 

 

The countries that have tackled this virus best have been those that have been completely open with the public.  It allows scrutiny by other experts in the field, and it also encourages the public to have more trust in the government and what it proposes as solutions.  What we have at the moment is constant statements about transparency - but very little actual transparency at all.

 

Scientists are, of course, being used as a shield, and they've acknowledged that fact.  Very convenient for ministers to take the credit for decisions that go right, and blame the scientists for the ones that don't.  

 

As Margaret Thatcher once said, “Advisers advise, but ministers decide”.   It's the politicians who are making the decisions here, right or wrong, not the scientists.

[terrierjohn]

Do we know for certain Harry that Germany, South Korea and other countries doing better than us have been totally open, honest and transparent, or is that an assumption?

[zap99]

11 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

That's absolutely right - spot on.  Far too much at stake here for this level of secrecy. 

 

The countries that have tackled this virus best have been those that have been completely open with the public.  It allows scrutiny by other experts in the field, and it also encourages the public to have more trust in the government and what it proposes as solutions.  What we have at the moment is constant statements about transparency - but very little actual transparency at all.

 

Scientists are, of course, being used as a shield, and they've acknowledged that fact.  Very convenient for ministers to take the credit for decisions that go right, and blame the scientists for the ones that don't.  

 

As Margaret Thatcher once said, “Advisers advise, but ministers decide”.   It's the politicians who are making the decisions here, right or wrong, not the scientists.

I don't think having a political discussion group will attract people back to P&O. How about more quizzes in the afternoons on sea days. We may get a few more of them if we can't dock anywhere. Music round the pool on sunny days ??.

[pete14]

1 hour ago, zap99 said:

I don't think having a political discussion group will attract people back to P&O. How about more quizzes in the afternoons on sea days. We may get a few more of them if we can't dock anywhere. Music round the pool on sunny days ??.

Judging by some posts on here recently, maybe a political discussion group would be an attraction (provided it is well supervised). 

[kalos]

9 minutes ago, pete14 said:

Judging by some posts on here recently, maybe a political discussion group would be an attraction (provided it is well supervised). 

 

From what I can see Pete there is nothing to stop them going into PUB section and setting one up.

Politics covers a wide set of issues and so does the pub area not just the P&O section .