IONA Maiden Voyage G024?

[Harry Peterson]

15 minutes ago, PRINCESSTHE BEST said:

This only came to light because some ‘gold digger’ thought they would make a few Bob by going to the media. It was all about the man and not what he did.

if you have a higher infection rate I suggest you look closer to home for reasons, not one man and his family keeping themselves to themselves.

And the impact on public morale of the man who designed the policy deciding it didn't apply to him?

 

Keeping themselves to themselves?  How about Mary's birthday trip to Barnard Castle,  somehow imagining the car was a mobile Specsavers?

[grapau27]

3 minutes ago, PRINCESSTHE BEST said:

This only came to light because some ‘gold digger’ thought they would make a few Bob by going to the media. It was all about the man and not what he did.

if you have a higher infection rate I suggest you look closer to home for reasons, not one man and his family keeping themselves to themselves.

Would you care to elaborate?

I have not been rude to you.

We both are working from home as per gov advice  and socially distance when we go for a walk and I wear full PPE once a week when food shopping.

Cummings couldn't even apologise and tested everyone's intelligence by saying he took his wife and 4 year old child on a 60 mile drive on his wife's birthday to a known tourist beauty spot to test his eyesight when everyone else was threatened with a police fine if they were caught driving more than 5 minutes from home.

I know several friends who have died through coronavirus.

 

[grapau27]

2 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

And the impact on public morale of the man who designed the policy deciding it didn't apply to him?

 

Keeping themselves to themselves?  How about Mary's birthday trip to Barnard Castle,  somehow imagining the car was a mobile Specsavers?

Exactly.

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

And the impact on public morale of the man who designed the policy deciding it didn't apply to him?

 

Keeping themselves to themselves?  How about Mary's birthday trip to Barnard Castle,  somehow imagining the car was a mobile Specsavers?

Durham police press statement:

Durham Constabulary have examined the circumstances surrounding the journey to Barnard Castle (including ANPR, witness evidence and a review of Mr Cummings’ press conference on 25 May 2020) and have concluded that there might have been a minor breach of the Regulations that would have warranted police intervention. Durham Constabulary view this as minor because there was no apparent breach of social distancing.
End of.

care to comment on Barry Gardiner?

[grapau27]

21 minutes ago, PRINCESSTHE BEST said:

Durham police press statement:

Durham Constabulary have examined the circumstances surrounding the journey to Barnard Castle (including ANPR, witness evidence and a review of Mr Cummings’ press conference on 25 May 2020) and have concluded that there might have been a minor breach of the Regulations that would have warranted police intervention. Durham Constabulary view this as minor because there was no apparent breach of social distancing.
End of.

care to comment on Barry Gardiner?

If he had been stopped he would have been given a ticket but he wasn't so they didn't consider retrospective action.

No excuse for anyone not Social Distancing at this time.

Edited June 7, 2020 by grapau27

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

 

The Observer view on the government's handling of the Covid-19 crisis

Observer editorial:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/07/the-observer-view-on-the-governments-handling-of-the-covid-19-crisis

 

"The government has so far proved too willing to take reckless risks with people’s lives. It must be called to account for that sooner rather than later."

Get a grip Harry, even the most bigoted anti Boris basher cannot really believe the govt have not given anything but their best efforts in the fight against covid19.  They have not always succeeded but suggesting they should be called to account for their best not always being good enough, condemns every student who does not achieve 100% as a failure.

 

[batholiver]

4 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Get a grip Harry, even the most bigoted anti Boris basher cannot really believe the govt have not given anything but their best efforts in the fight against covid19.  They have not always succeeded but suggesting they should be called to account for their best not always being good enough, condemns every student who does not achieve 100% as a failure.

 

This isn't about students. This is about senior politicians who have failed us badly.

 

Boris Johnson himself has a history of failure at major projects.  The country should have known better, and now we're paying the price of his abject failure. 

 

Don't make excuses for him and them. Even the senior government actuary has condemned the lies they're putting out to save their skins.

[wowzz]

22 minutes ago, batholiver said:

This isn't about students. This is about senior politicians who have failed us badly.

 

Boris Johnson himself has a history of failure at major projects.  The country should have known better, and now we're paying the price of his abject failure. 

 

Don't make excuses for him and them. Even the senior government actuary has condemned the lies they're putting out to save their skins.

Excellent post. You have summed up my feelings exactly.

Boris is a chancer and a charlatan. 

  

[mercury7289]

33 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Excellent post. You have summed up my feelings exactly.

Boris is a chancer and a charlatan. 

  

And the alternative was!!!

[wowzz]

32 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

And the alternative was!!!

I agree about that. But, for goodness sake, not Boris!  It takes something for a journalist to be sacked for lying, yet Boris managed it!

[batholiver]

6 hours ago, mercury7289 said:

And the alternative was!!!

Corbyn wasn't the best alternative,  I'll give you that, but at least he isn't a celebrated liar like the current PM, and i honestly believe he'd have made a better fist of this than the clowns now making such a mess of it. This isn't a case of criticising not achieving 100% - the outcome's much nearer 0%.

 

Almost the worst death rate in the world,  and economic collapse  -  mostly because the supposed leader was too lazy and unintelligent to act sooner.  And now he's going too far the other way far too soon to try to correct the earlier mistakes.  Like a huge,  dumb  swinging pendulum that's completely out of control,  with Cummings pushing the buttons because Johnson can't. 

[Harry Peterson]

8 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Get a grip Harry, even the most bigoted anti Boris basher cannot really believe the govt have not given anything but their best efforts in the fight against covid19.  They have not always succeeded but suggesting they should be called to account for their best not always being good enough, condemns every student who does not achieve 100% as a failure.

 

1  These are not students - these are supposed to be senior politicians running a country.  That's what they were elected to do.

2  Achieve 100%?  We're not talking remotely 100% here - the UK's outcome is nothing short of appalling by comparison with almost every country in the rest of the world.

3  This is a disaster by any standards - but the government's doing its level best to conceal it in a torrent of faked figures.  Did you realise for example that the much vaunted 100,000 tests a day figure still hasn't been achieved?  They claim to have achieved it, but it's all smoke and mirrors - double counting of multiple tests on the same patient, and counting tests as done when they're put in the post!!!

[Findus Stander]

I am not interested in any ones political view point, do not use this thread to air yours. Post on another forum or start your own post. This post was solely a post to discuss IONA's potential maiden voyage.

[pete14]

4 minutes ago, Findus Stander said:

I am not interested in any ones political view point, do not use this thread to air yours. Post on another forum or start your own post. This post was solely a post to discuss IONA's potential maiden voyage.

As nobody knows when Iona’s maiden voyage will be, where it will go to or who will be on it (not even P&O), all your original post would achieve is guesswork and speculation. This guesswork and speculation is inevitably driven by the virus and the response of governments both here and in possible destination countries. Hence, much of the potential ‘political discussion’ here, by posters who are keen for cruising to recommence when it is safe to do so, is relevant to your original post. The UK government has made errors (few have not), the quarantine which starts today directly affects cruising and possibly puts back any intended start date dependent on how long it lasts for. Our infection rate is higher than many of our European neighbours who are scheduled destinations for our cruises (Spain, Italy, Norway to name just three) which means they will not accept visitors from UK at the moment. The high infection rate in UK is strongly influenced by UK government policy i.e politics.
 

[Harry Peterson]

20 minutes ago, Findus Stander said:

I am not interested in any ones political view point, do not use this thread to air yours. Post on another forum or start your own post. This post was solely a post to discuss IONA's potential maiden voyage.

What happens to Iona, and what happens to cruising as a whole, is very directly affected by what’s currently happening in the UK, and the government controls that.

 

The two are inextricably linked, and it’s hardly surprising that people have a view.  You can of course just ignore any posts you’re not interested in, as we all do.  😃

[Scratchrat]

I'm truly hopeful things will start to ease soon. The next lockdown review is in 2 weeks and is expected to announce the ability for restaurants, bars and such to reopen. Shops are due to start reopening next week.

 

I've read articles that suggest that contrary to popular belief (considering cruise ships reputation with noro) a cruise ship is likely to be one of the safer vacation spots as it's easier to spread people out on a big ship.

 

We shall see!

[wowzz]

30 minutes ago, Scratchrat said:

a cruise ship is likely to be one of the safer vacation spots as it's easier to spread people out on a big ship.

Can't see that myself. Too many pinch points - buffets, bars, lifts etc. However, if the number of passengers were halved, then perhaps you would have a point.

[Scratchrat]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

Can't see that myself. Too many pinch points - buffets, bars, lifts etc. However, if the number of passengers were halved, then perhaps you would have a point.

I think capacity has already been cut behind the scenes tbh.

 

Buffets I expect to be socially distanced and not self service as per norovirus rules.

[mercury7289]

43 minutes ago, Scratchrat said:

I'm truly hopeful things will start to ease soon. The next lockdown review is in 2 weeks and is expected to announce the ability for restaurants, bars and such to reopen. Shops are due to start reopening next week.

 

I've read articles that suggest that contrary to popular belief (considering cruise ships reputation with noro) a cruise ship is likely to be one of the safer vacation spots as it's easier to spread people out on a big ship.

 

We shall see!

Where can we find these articles that you are referring to?

 

Sounds like they might make interested reading

[Scratchrat]

11 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

Where can we find these articles that you are referring to?

 

Sounds like they might make interested reading

Oh I didn't bookmark them, I'll try and find it this afternoon.

 

Not in any way suggesting they are right, just that it's a view likely to be taken by those financially invested in getting things back to normal.

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

11 hours ago, batholiver said:

This isn't about students. This is about senior politicians who have failed us badly.

 

Boris Johnson himself has a history of failure at major projects.  The country should have known better, and now we're paying the price of his abject failure. 

 

Don't make excuses for him and them. Even the senior government actuary has condemned the lies they're putting out to save their skins.

Failed us badly?
Evaluated what was happening in other countries 

massive operation to get sufficient ventilators

new hospitals built within weeks

PPE operation included getting our industry to adapt and supply.
saved the NHS from being overwhelmed

death rates at lowest level since April

lock down implemented at the right time

Test and trace being implemented
Furloughed the workforce to prevent redundancies 

[mercury7289]

16 minutes ago, Scratchrat said:

Oh I didn't bookmark them, I'll try and find it this afternoon.

 

Not in any way suggesting they are right, just that it's a view likely to be taken by those financially invested in getting things back to normal.

Okay thank you, I am sure that a number of posters would also be interested!

[batholiver]

8 minutes ago, PRINCESSTHE BEST said:

Failed us badly?
Evaluated what was happening in other countries 

massive operation to get sufficient ventilators

new hospitals built within weeks

PPE operation included getting our industry to adapt and supply.
saved the NHS from being overwhelmed

death rates at lowest level since April

lock down implemented at the right time

Test and trace being implemented
Furloughed the workforce to prevent redundancies 

You really do need to keep up to date with what's happened.

 

Failed to evaluate what was happening elsewhere,  ignored specific warnings from Italy,  failed to attend 5 key Cobra meetings, continued shaking hands in hospitals despite medical advice,  went into lockdown 2 weeks too late, allowed major sporting events to go ahead and spread the virus even further,  accepted by scientists as responsible for thousands of unnecessary deaths.

 

PPE was an absolute disaster,  causing any number of NHS staff deaths and lost opportunities. 

 

And the NHS was saved from being overwhelmed only because it closed to all other patients,  many needing urgent treatment,  and closed its doors to large numbers of Covid patients who later died - frequently in care homes.

 

Care homes overwhelmed with huge death figures, caused by government's decision to move Covid patients out of hospitals into care homes without testing. 

 

Second worst death rate in the world.  Test and Trace still not working effectively.  Testing target of 100,000 promised by end of April still not met.

 

In short - disastrous.

[zap99]

3 hours ago, Findus Stander said:

I am not interested in any ones political view point, do not use this thread to air yours. Post on another forum or start your own post. This post was solely a post to discuss IONA's potential maiden voyage.

Unfortunately some people can't resist. As the rules of CC are no politics, it's best to just ignore them and let them rant away. After a while their posts are gone and sometimes them as well.😂

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

2 minutes ago, batholiver said:

You really do need to keep up to date with what's happened.

 

Failed to evaluate what was happening elsewhere,  ignored specific warnings from Italy,  failed to attend 5 key Cobra meetings, continued shaking hands in hospitals despite medical advice,  went into lockdown 2 weeks too late, allowed major sporting events to go ahead and spread the virus even further,  accepted by scientists as responsible for thousands of unnecessary deaths.

 

PPE was an absolute disaster,  causing any number of NHS staff deaths and lost opportunities. 

 

And the NHS was saved from being overwhelmed only because it closed to all other patients,  many needing urgent treatment,  and closed its doors to large numbers of Covid patients who later died - frequently in care homes.

 

Care homes overwhelmed with huge death figures, caused by government's decision to move Covid patients out of hospitals into care homes without testing. 

 

Second worst death rate in the world.  Test and Trace still not working effectively.  Testing target of 100,000 promised by end of April still not met.

 

In short - disastrous.

Unevidenced generalities.

What warnings from Italy were ignored?

 

its not PMs job to be at every cobra Meeting. Do you know what cobra is?
 

Please name the scientists you refer to.

Please evidence why lockdown was 2 weeks late? We entered lockdown on March 23 when reported cases rose to 967. Italy went into lockdown on 9 March when daily cases were 1797. In reality we learnt from Italy and locked down earlier. Lockdown has to be finely balanced to take the country’s economy into account too. 
 

PPE is normally stockpiled for a crisis or major incident within the NHS. In normal times absolutely massive stockpiling would not be practical or affordable. Seeing what was happening in Italy and Spain, the Health Secretary made massive preparations and contracts to get PPE. But please bear in mind all new sources and contractors have to submit samples for testing to make sure we are not giving the NHS sub standard equipment. Not all passed those stringent tests, Turkey PPE is a case in point.

 

Care homes are a completely different matter. These are typically owned by private individuals or companies and are not run by the Government or NHS. The PPE for care homes is the responsibility of the owners and before the pandemic they were buying their own. When care homes became overwhelmed, the government started to supply them with PPE, which put even more pressure on supplies.

 

Second worst death rare in the world. Time will show where the largest number of deaths occurred. Was it because of living conditions? In some cases 3 generations living under the same roof? Was it because of at risk occupations, e.g. bus drivers? Was because people ignored lockdown and started protest rallies?
 

in short, we’ve done better than most.