CSR trip insurance-do I need more?

[lilybay]

I have struggled with this for a while but now with COVID it becomes a more pressing issue. Have others struggled with this? What gaps do you see and how do you fill them? I am coming up to some cruises that are above the 60 day travel limit and 10K cost limit for the insurance. How have you dealt with that. I have often gone exclusively with CSR and even found them good for reimbursing. They reimbursed 100% of a cruise I had to cancel at the last minute because a travel partner and family member needed surgery. 

[iamtrustworthy]

1 hour ago, lilybay said:

I have struggled with this for a while but now with COVID it becomes a more pressing issue. Have others struggled with this? What gaps do you see and how do you fill them? I am coming up to some cruises that are above the 60 day travel limit and 10K cost limit for the insurance. How have you dealt with that. I have often gone exclusively with CSR and even found them good for reimbursing. They reimbursed 100% of a cruise I had to cancel at the last minute because a travel partner and family member needed surgery. 

Hi lilybay,

 

What is CSR?

 

Steve Dasseos

[Babr]

The biggest gap is that it does not provide medical coverage, only cancellation or trip delay. You did not indicate how you deal with those issues. 
 

Chase Sapphire will not cover cancellation just because you are disinclined to go because of a pandemic. In other words fear of Covid is not covered.

 

Nor will Chase cover your more expensive trips. 
 

It seems to me that it is time to seek out more comprehensive coverage. 

[iamtrustworthy]

Thanks Babr. CSR must be Chase Sapphire Reserve. In addtion to what you said, Chase doesn't cover pre-existing conditions.

 

Steve Dasseos

[lilybay]

Thens for the input. It covers 2.5k in emergency medical. this is a good point however. I haven't really travelled since I have been on medicare and back when I was going with just the CSR, I had overseas medical in my insurance. Something to check about my medicare coverage. I think it may have a minimal amount. most medical won't cover if you change your mind and cancel for any reason will not cover for 100% like CSR does. They would have covered my travel partners who also had to cancel that cruise if they had not had their own insurance and they were not paid with my card nor were our reservations hooked  together. They were family members and the reason for my cancellation. I do like CSR coverage but something more is always a good idea. trying to figure out what gaps to cover and how to do it. 

[Babr]

1 hour ago, lilybay said:

Thens for the input. It covers 2.5k in emergency medical. this is a good point however. I haven't really travelled since I have been on medicare and back when I was going with just the CSR, I had overseas medical in my insurance. Something to check about my medicare coverage. I think it may have a minimal amount. most medical won't cover if you change your mind and cancel for any reason will not cover for 100% like CSR does. They would have covered my travel partners who also had to cancel that cruise if they had not had their own insurance and they were not paid with my card nor were our reservations hooked  together. They were family members and the reason for my cancellation. I do like CSR coverage but something more is always a good idea. trying to figure out what gaps to cover and how to do it. 

 

$2,500 still leaves you pretty much naked as far a medical coverage. You probably know that Medicare will not cover you out of country.

 

If you have a Medicare Advantage plan, you will have to pay the applicable deductibles and co-pays at out-of-network rates. If you have a Medicare supplement, depending on the policy, you will have a lifetime limit for foreign travel. The $2,500 would help with those out-of-pocket expenses, but it won’t go very far.
 

Covid has added new complications. To me, a concern would be testing positive at some point during the cruise or at disembarkation even though you have been vaccinated. It would be fairly easy to avoid be denied boarding at embarkation with the availability of rapid tests. You could test yourself before setting out; but if you test positive at some later point, there is the possibility of being put off the ship and  quarantine. It is a certainty that you would not be allowed to return to the US until you tested negative. I don’t know how insurance would handle that. 
 

The Sapphire coverage seems to be pretty good for cancellation and trip delay as long as your trip does not cost more than $10,000. Be aware of the pre-existing condition language and whether it applies to you.

 

You are correct about the Cancel-for-any-reason provision. 
 

The obvious shortcoming is the medical/evacuation coverage. Maybe a separate policy for those would meet your needs. I’d talk to Steve who responded in Post #2.

He’ll be able to answer your questions and recommend something appropriate.

[Babr]

On second thought, you are partially correct about CFAR. Most cancellation policies (not medical) do not reimburse 100% for CFAR.

 

Neither does Sapphire. There is a list of covered reasons as well as a list of exclusions. Change of plans or disinclination to travel fall under exclusions. I don’t see any language that says you are covered 100% if you cancel for anything other than one of the defined reasons.

 

I just didn’t want to leave anyone with the wrong impression.

[mustgo]

11 hours ago, Babr said:

 

$2,500 still leaves you pretty much naked as far a medical coverage. You probably know that Medicare will not cover you out of country.

 

If you have a Medicare Advantage plan, you will have to pay the applicable deductibles and co-pays at out-of-network rates. If you have a Medicare supplement, depending on the policy, you will have a lifetime limit for foreign travel. The $2,500 would help with those out-of-pocket expenses, but it won’t go very far.
 

Covid has added new complications. To me, a concern would be testing positive at some point during the cruise or at disembarkation even though you have been vaccinated. It would be fairly easy to avoid be denied boarding at embarkation with the availability of rapid tests. You could test yourself before setting out; but if you test positive at some later point, there is the possibility of being put off the ship and  quarantine. It is a certainty that you would not be allowed to return to the US until you tested negative. I don’t know how insurance would handle that. 
 

The Sapphire coverage seems to be pretty good for cancellation and trip delay as long as your trip does not cost more than $10,000. Be aware of the pre-existing condition language and whether it applies to you.

 

You are correct about the Cancel-for-any-reason provision. 
 

The obvious shortcoming is the medical/evacuation coverage. Maybe a separate policy for those would meet your needs. I’d talk to Steve who responded in Post #2.

He’ll be able to answer your questions and recommend something appropriate.

Your statement about Medicare Advantage Plans copays and out of network charges is not always correct.  I have an Aetna HMO that covers me anywhere in the world in the same way it does in the US.  I believe that feature was new last year and replaced the 50K lifetime benefit.  Yes, there would be some charges, but they are manageable.

[mustgo]

I don't see a button to edit.  I meant coverage in an emergency situation

[Babr]

36 minutes ago, mustgo said:

Your statement about Medicare Advantage Plans copays and out of network charges is not always correct.  I have an Aetna HMO that covers me anywhere in the world in the same way it does in the US.  I believe that feature was new last year and replaced the 50K lifetime benefit.  Yes, there would be some charges, but they are manageable.

Thanks for the info. I don’t have any experience with HMO’s so I have only a rough idea how they work. I guess I was thinking of PPO’s.

 

It is a good reminder of how complex and varied insurance can be so we each have to do the homework for our unique situation.

 

Side note: I found the edit button in that series of three dots to the right of the post number. I think it is available for a limited time so it may not be visible if you go back later.

[mustgo]

Thanks for the edit clue.  I totally agree that insurance is complex and frequently changing.  We are very fortunate to have Steve Dasseos and his wealth of knowledge as well as this board to exchange info.   Hopefully we will get back to cruising soon and put all of this info to work.

[Hlitner]

What sometimes gets forgotten here is the concept of self insurance.  So, for example, we always carry some kind of high limit travel medical insurance (such as Geoblue) because our liability from a medical emergency is unlimited!  But we do not buy any cancelation insurance (other then the coverage through Chase Sapphire Reserve) because we choose to "self insure" most cancelation risk.  What this means is that over the past 40+ years of extensive cruising we have saved far more then $200,000 in insurance premiums because of all the insurance WE DID NOT BUY.  So, if we ever take a big loss because of something that would have been covered by cancelation insurance we will still be far ahead of the game.   We are much less concerned about cancelation issues (vs medical) because our liability for cancelation is limited.  In fact, we would have spent the money anyway, so financially we would be no worse off (financially) if we lost money on a cancelation vs having taken the trip.

 

By the way, a note for insurance lovers.  We have, so far, had 5 cruises (some of them several months long) cancelled because of COVID.  Our total financial loss for all those expensive trips was $Zero (we got all our money refunded or used credit card charge backs).   If we had purchased cancelation for all those cruises it would have cost us over $15,000 in insurance premiums which we may or may not have fully recovered.

 

Hank

[Babr]

I believe the Medigap supplement plans that include foreign travel - not all do - are the ones with the dollar limit.

[lilybay]

12 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

What sometimes gets forgotten here is the concept of self insurance.  So, for example, we always carry some kind of high limit travel medical insurance (such as Geoblue) because our liability from a medical emergency is unlimited!  But we do not buy any cancelation insurance (other then the coverage through Chase Sapphire Reserve) because we choose to "self insure" most cancelation risk.  What this means is that over the past 40+ years of extensive cruising we have saved far more then $200,000 in insurance premiums because of all the insurance WE DID NOT BUY.  So, if we ever take a big loss because of something that would have been covered by cancelation insurance we will still be far ahead of the game.   We are much less concerned about cancelation issues (vs medical) because our liability for cancelation is limited.  In fact, we would have spent the money anyway, so financially we would be no worse off (financially) if we lost money on a cancelation vs having taken the trip.

 

By the way, a note for insurance lovers.  We have, so far, had 5 cruises (some of them several months long) cancelled because of COVID.  Our total financial loss for all those expensive trips was $Zero (we got all our money refunded or used credit card charge backs).   If we had purchased cancelation for all those cruises it would have cost us over $15,000 in insurance premiums which we may or may not have fully recovered.

 

Hank

This has sort of been my policy for cancellation. people talk about the perks of CSR and how it pays back the big AF but they never talk about the travel insurance in those cases. For me the amount I have saved in travel insurance each year more than pays back the AF.  Everything else is perks. I dont know, and should call them, if when a trip costs more than 10k and you have to cancel for a covered reason whether they reimburse up to the 10k or they reimburse nothing. It has not been an issue yet but traveling as a solo it is getting there. A trip that costs 5k per person for a couple can cost 10k for a solo. I have had emergency evacuation insurance in the past but really CSR covers it and once I had an annual travel policy that covered more medical but dont know if I need either of those coverages. My medicare supplement covers up to 50k of emergency medical overseas. I cant imagine anything costing more than that overseas. Here it would be nothing but overseas costs are much lower. Another advantage I see of using just CSR is that it covers 100% of costs for the trip even if you only paid for the air with your card it would cover cruise, excursions and anything else. Normal policies won't do that and often won't cover 100%. The big reason I am pondering this is because i am booked on the 2023 Grand South America. A 71 day cruise with HAL. I think I might have to do something to supplement my CSR insurance for that. 

[Hlitner]

3 minutes ago, lilybay said:

This has sort of been my policy for cancellation. people talk about the perks of CSR and how it pays back the big AF but they never talk about the travel insurance in those cases. For me the amount I have saved in travel insurance each year more than pays back the AF.  Everything else is perks. I dont know, and should call them, if when a trip costs more than 10k and you have to cancel for a covered reason whether they reimburse up to the 10k or they reimburse nothing. It has not been an issue yet but traveling as a solo it is getting there. A trip that costs 5k per person for a couple can cost 10k for a solo. I have had emergency evacuation insurance in the past but really CSR covers it and once I had an annual travel policy that covered more medical but dont know if I need either of those coverages. My medicare supplement covers up to 50k of emergency medical overseas. I cant imagine anything costing more than that overseas. Here it would be nothing but overseas costs are much lower. Another advantage I see of using just CSR is that it covers 100% of costs for the trip even if you only paid for the air with your card it would cover cruise, excursions and anything else. Normal policies won't do that and often won't cover 100%. The big reason I am pondering this is because i am booked on the 2023 Grand South America. A 71 day cruise with HAL. I think I might have to do something to supplement my CSR insurance for that. 

I actually have your answer since we did file a major claim when a long/expensive (well over $10,000) was interrupted due to a serious injury to DW.  In the end, after a few months of back and forth on claim details (normal for most insurance claims) we received a check from CSR for exactly $10,000.  Also be aware that CSR only covers to the extent you actually used the card to pay for the expenses.  So, if you only charge $8000 of trip expenses on the card you will not get more then that $8000 in a claim.

 

One big warning about CSR and travel insurance.  The insurance companies are very reluctant to ever reimburse money you lose on airline tickets.  The CSR Claims Examiners simply refused to accept that a non-cancelable airline ticket is truly non-cancelable.  Many airlines will make exceptions to their non-cancelable rules if you can get to the right people and make your case.  The claims examiners really put the onus on the claimant to fight hard with the airline and they will often demand something from the airline saying they will not issue any refund or voucher.  But many airlines will give you a voucher (which can often become worthless) if you push a case.  In our case we got bounced back and forth between the airline, Chase, and Princess over unused Business Class tickets.  This went on for many months and CSR used this as a convenient excuse to hold up the settlement of the major part of the claim.   I have previously posted about this tale, but the key to dealing with claims examiners is patience, charm, documentation, and perseverance.  

 

Hank

[Babr]

2 hours ago, lilybay said:

This has sort of been my policy for cancellation. people talk about the perks of CSR and how it pays back the big AF but they never talk about the travel insurance in those cases. For me the amount I have saved in travel insurance each year more than pays back the AF.  Everything else is perks. I dont know, and should call them, if when a trip costs more than 10k and you have to cancel for a covered reason whether they reimburse up to the 10k or they reimburse nothing. It has not been an issue yet but traveling as a solo it is getting there. A trip that costs 5k per person for a couple can cost 10k for a solo. I have had emergency evacuation insurance in the past but really CSR covers it and once I had an annual travel policy that covered more medical but dont know if I need either of those coverages. My medicare supplement covers up to 50k of emergency medical overseas. I cant imagine anything costing more than that overseas. Here it would be nothing but overseas costs are much lower. Another advantage I see of using just CSR is that it covers 100% of costs for the trip even if you only paid for the air with your card it would cover cruise, excursions and anything else. Normal policies won't do that and often won't cover 100%. The big reason I am pondering this is because i am booked on the 2023 Grand South America. A 71 day cruise with HAL. I think I might have to do something to supplement my CSR insurance for that. 

 

In case you haven’t seen it, there is a thread on this forum that discusses Medigap plans. Scroll down to Trip Insurance with Medicare. It may give you some points to consider as you weigh your options.

 

Also, recheck your evacuation coverage with CSR.  I saw a section on emergency assistance, but the description of services said that they would help you make arrangements. The part about costs being  your responsibility was in bold text.

[mustgo]

The Chase Sapphire Reserve Card covers up to $100,000 for emergency medical and evacuation.

The Chase Sapphire Preferred Card does not.

[Jersey42]

19 minutes ago, mustgo said:

The Chase Sapphire Reserve Card covers up to $100,000 for emergency medical and evacuation

Unless something has changed recently, emergency medical is only $2,500.  Emergency Evacuation and Transportation is $100,000.  We always supplemented the Chase card with GeoBlue Trekker for medical.  Still not sure what we will do when we start traveling again.

[wrk2cruise]

13 hours ago, Jersey42 said:

We always supplemented the Chase card with GeoBlue Trekker for medical.  Still not sure what we will do when we start traveling again.

 

Exactly my situation.  I'm planning on giving Steve a call.  I have not used him before but his advise on this board had made me decide to give him a try.

[mustgo]

14 hours ago, Jersey42 said:

Unless something has changed recently, emergency medical is only $2,500.  Emergency Evacuation and Transportation is $100,000.  We always supplemented the Chase card with GeoBlue Trekker for medical.  Still not sure what we will do when we start traveling again.

You are right.  I meant to say emergency medical evacuation.  Yes medical is just $2500.  Thanks for catching it

[lilybay]

On 5/25/2021 at 9:38 AM, Hlitner said:

I actually have your answer since we did file a major claim when a long/expensive (well over $10,000) was interrupted due to a serious injury to DW.  In the end, after a few months of back and forth on claim details (normal for most insurance claims) we received a check from CSR for exactly $10,000.  Also be aware that CSR only covers to the extent you actually used the card to pay for the expenses.  So, if you only charge $8000 of trip expenses on the card you will not get more then that $8000 in a claim.

 

One big warning about CSR and travel insurance.  The insurance companies are very reluctant to ever reimburse money you lose on airline tickets.  The CSR Claims Examiners simply refused to accept that a non-cancelable airline ticket is truly non-cancelable.  Many airlines will make exceptions to their non-cancelable rules if you can get to the right people and make your case.  The claims examiners really put the onus on the claimant to fight hard with the airline and they will often demand something from the airline saying they will not issue any refund or voucher.  But many airlines will give you a voucher (which can often become worthless) if you push a case.  In our case we got bounced back and forth between the airline, Chase, and Princess over unused Business Class tickets.  This went on for many months and CSR used this as a convenient excuse to hold up the settlement of the major part of the claim.   I have previously posted about this tale, but the key to dealing with claims examiners is patience, charm, documentation, and perseverance.  

 

Hank

Good to know about the 10K. I would just have to decide if I wanted to gamble on that. I assume your trip wasn't over 60 days? I wonder if they would just prorate the cost of the trip to 60 days. Mine is 74.

 

CSR covers the entire trip even if only a portion is on the card. CSP covers only what was actually charged on the card. When I had to cancel they wanted to know if  they should include my father and stepmother in the claim as they were traveling with, even though they were on another card and another reservation. It never got to that as they had their own insurance but the guy said they would. He also asked if I had any airplane tickets to the port to add to the claim I didn't. The port was too close. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by lilybay

[wrk2cruise]

@lilybay  How long ago was your claim?   I do think they changed in the last 2 years that they only cover what was charged with your CSR card.

[lilybay]

8 hours ago, wrk2cruise said:

@lilybay  How long ago was your claim?   I do think they changed in the last 2 years that they only cover what was charged with your CSR card.

probably three years ago. I dont think they have changed. I guess I better check. 

[wrk2cruise]

I re-read it today and it does state that there is coverage if any part of the non refundable trip cost is paid with the CSR card. 

 

What I couldn't tell is if the benefit maximum would be the total trip cost or only the portion paid with the card.

[Jersey42]

1 hour ago, wrk2cruise said:

I re-read it today and it does state that there is coverage if any part of the non refundable trip cost is paid with the CSR card. 

 

What I couldn't tell is if the benefit maximum would be the total trip cost or only the portion paid with the card.

You bring up some good points. While I don’t know the answer for sure, here is some more information from what I have and what I remember.  The guide to benefits had a significant rewrite sometime after 8-26-2018. I don’t recall exactly when the changes were made, but the guides I have (8-26-2018 and 2-15-2020) are very different, so the changes were made somewhere in that timeframe.

 

When I noticed the changes, I called Chase and asked the question about coverage if only a portion of the trip was charged to the card. While I BELIEVE they said there was no change, I think I decided it was better to charge everything to the Chase card and not worry about it.  With no travel over the past 15 months, it  has not mattered 😀.

 

I just looked at the Trip Cancellation and Trip Interruption section of both guides.  To me, the 8-2018 guide is very clear that you are covered as long as you charge a portion of the trip to the card.  The 2-2020 also clearly states you are covered if you charge a portion of the trip to the card, but as you suggest, it is now very easy to interpret that the coverage is limited to the amount charged to the card.

 

By the way.  They also changed the maximum benefit amount and language.  The 2-2020 clearly states $10K per person and $20K per trip.  The 8-2018 guide was more ambiguous to me as it says both $10K per trip and $10K per claim. I can't tell if the old one was $10K per person with no cap, or if its was $10K total for all covered people.  Insurance is confusing ☹️.

 

Here are some pertinent sections from the Trip Cancellation section.  Trip Interruption language is similar:

 

8-26-2018 Guide to Benefits

Who is covered?

You, the Primary Insured Person, and your Immediate Family

Members are automatically covered. . . .

 

What is Trip Cancellation insurance?

Trip Cancellation insurance reimburses you or your Immediate

Family Members for up to ten thousand ($10,000.00)

dollars for each Covered Trip if a Covered Loss prevents

you or your Immediate Family Members from traveling on or

before the departure date and results in cancellation of the

travel arrangements. . . .

 

Covered Trip means any pre-paid tour, trip or vacation when

some portion of the cost for such travel arrangements less any

redeemable frequent flyer miles, points, coupons or certificates,

or other types of redeemable Rewards has been charged to

your Account.

 

2-15-2020 Guide to Benefits

The Trip Cancellation and Trip Interruption benefit provides

reimbursement for Eligible Travel Expenses charged to the

Cardholder’s Account up to ten thousand ($10,000.00) dollars per

Covered Person and up to twenty thousand ($20,000.00) dollars

per Trip, if a loss results in cancellation or interruption of the

travel arrangements.

 

The Cardholder and Immediate Family Members are covered when

the Cardholder’s name is embossed on an eligible Card issued in

the United States, and the Cardholder charges all or a portion of

a Trip to his or her Credit Card Account and/or Rewards programs

associated with the Account.