Absolutely Disgusted by Royal Caribbean

[John&LaLa]

4 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Why are you so scared of kids?

 

I don't know, maybe fear of an outbreak 

[Seville2Cabo]

1 hour ago, rtazz17 said:

Not 1 documented case of a person who is vaccinated dying from covid.

Per the CDC, about 160 people died from Covid after fully vaccinated

 

[jptoz]

6 minutes ago, Demongear said:

Have you seen this in a release anywhere? I have not been able to find a definitive stance stating this by RCCL. I have 2 ports within driving distance and would feel much better about cruising if this is the case 

As soon as school starts in the northeast, RCI will start sailing again from the northeast ports(Less kids onboard).  I think RCI is hoping for the  vaccine to be available to kids 5 and up soon. And will then require vaccines  for all the  ports except FL and Texas.

[dswallow]

"Those who are unvaccinated or unable to verify vaccination will be required to undergo testing and follow other protocols, which will be announced at a later date."

 

How about waiting until "follow other protocols" is explained before going off the deep end here?

Most people aren't going to be so stupid as to board a cruise ship unvaccinated if they can get vaccinated. Yeah, there's always going to be some idiots. But most people aren't going to do it.

We, as a country, have been striving since vaccinations became available to reach a point we all hear referred to as "herd immunity." This is a level at which there's an effective barrier to transmission of the virus because it has to step through people who can't generally get it and can't spread it easily even if they do get some mild case of it. Such herd immunity is of the population; wherever that population exists. Shipboard is a pretty isolated population in general, in and of itself.

Yes, I'm unhappy to see Royal Caribbean back-pedal here. This should happen only when the population in general reaches this herd immunity level of vaccination. At best, we're at the cusp of that point, and regionally many places probably have a ways to go to get to even that point.

 

So, all that considered, what really is different here, anyway? And there's still that "follow other protocols" thing. If that should include being required to wear a mask in certain areas where vaccinated people do not have to, and be required to go through more frequent temperature checks or COVID tests, or be required to stay only in certain areas... won't that still be pretty much just the same as far as the effect on vaccinated people also aboard the ship?

Anyway, just like all the people whining about if Royal Caribbean required vaccination they'd never cruise with the company again, now we have the opposite end of the spectrum behaving just as childishly. I think both of those groups probably would be better off waiting another year or so before doing anything outside their homes other than the essential things like grocery shopping. 

[ronandcarla]

33 minutes ago, cruiserking said:

I also agree with 1000%. We are long time Royal Caribbean cruisers and love their line but, this swift about face in not requiring Covid vaccinations is a complete betrayal of the passengers they supposedly make it a "top priority to protect". 

 

We understand RCCL is a family line but, this in an unprecedented time and absolute safety is paramount to begin cruising in America again. If it takes three or so months till children 12 and under can be safely vaccinated then so be it. Let families with smaller kids travel once they are safely vaccinated. 

 

If Governor DeSantis' vaccination law makes it too difficult to work with find an alternative or how about being bold like NCL's Frank Del Rio and refuse to port at all. Royal Caribbean has always been such a trail blazing, intuitive and innovative cruise line now is truly the time when they need to put those talents to work. 

 

There are plenty of ports nearby in New York, New Jersey, Baltimore, Boston that can easily be used. It has been such a rollercoaster ride wondering, hoping, that cruising would return and when it finally does we are hit with this completely irrational, unfair and irresponsible decision. 

 

I hope people will voice their displeasure by contacting Royal Caribbean, emailing them. Of course the one place they'll feel it the most is at the cash register. Hopefully, this twisted ship will get righted again and we can all set sail safely soon. 

 

Jonathan

'We totally agree with your entire statement.  We haven't been on a cruise for about 7 or 8 years and had every intention to start up again this coming Feb-Mar time period and when we heard this news that RCCL changed their  Covid 19  vaccination proof requirement to meet Gov DeSantis' ridiculous political law we changed our mind and decided to wait and see how it goes.  I'm so hoping that Disney with all of their power will require the vaccination proof and at that time DeSantis will come to his senses and amend his political law.

[Seville2Cabo]

2 hours ago, alangee said:

We booked two cruises for early next year with the assurance that Royal would be maintaining strict COVID protocols. The fact that they are now going to allow un-vaccinated passengers on board is a total breach of contract under which we booked the cruises.

I just don’t think you can say what will be going on next year and my guess is that cruising will be back to normal.  Our next cruise is December and I think it will have little or no restrictions and really feel our April 2022 cruise will have no restriction.  

I don’t think Royal ever said or implied any protocols for next year.  If you assumed some of the announcements for start up cruises will be in place next year, I think that was your assumption.  My assumption, is there will be no restrictions next year.

[ronandcarla]

10 minutes ago, dswallow said:

"Those who are unvaccinated or unable to verify vaccination will be required to undergo testing and follow other protocols, which will be announced at a later date."

 

How about waiting until "follow other protocols" is explained before going off the deep end here?

Most people aren't going to be so stupid as to board a cruise ship unvaccinated if they can get vaccinated. Yeah, there's always going to be some idiots. But most people aren't going to do it.

We, as a country, have been striving since vaccinations became available to reach a point we all hear referred to as "herd immunity." This is a level at which there's an effective barrier to transmission of the virus because it has to step through people who can't generally get it and can't spread it easily even if they do get some mild case of it. Such herd immunity is of the population; wherever that population exists. Shipboard is a pretty isolated population in general, in and of itself.

Yes, I'm unhappy to see Royal Caribbean back-pedal here. This should happen only when the population in general reaches this herd immunity level of vaccination. At best, we're at the cusp of that point, and regionally many places probably have a ways to go to get to even that point.

 

So, all that considered, what really is different here, anyway? And there's still that "follow other protocols" thing. If that should include being required to wear a mask in certain areas where vaccinated people do not have to, and be required to go through more frequent temperature checks or COVID tests, or be required to stay only in certain areas... won't that still be pretty much just the same as far as the effect on vaccinated people also aboard the ship?

Anyway, just like all the people whining about if Royal Caribbean required vaccination they'd never cruise with the company again, now we have the opposite end of the spectrum behaving just as childishly. I think both of those groups probably would be better off waiting another year or so before doing anything outside their homes other than the essential things like grocery shopping. 

There's an awful lot of the unvaccinated folks who still love to have fun, but somehow they have this stupid mindset that they don't want to be told what to do in re vaccinations requirements or suggestions to take care of themselves and of course us, sort of that's called society.  Those folks are  the ones who can cause trouble for everybody, 

[erinsmom03]

This whole situation is testing my patience, which has never been a strong character trait for me to begin with lol, but I am holding out to see what happens when cruising actually begins. Our next cruise isn't until January. Hopefully all of the insanity will settle down by then. I'm not getting all worked up about it now. Things are constantly changing in the world now that Covid is on the scene.

 

[alangee]

2 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

How far out is your sail date? We can’t travel from Canada now as it stands but hopefully much will change for the positive before now and your cruise date. 

We're in Canada too, and yes things could change by the new year. But COVID will still be around and we will all need to play it safe, if not so much for ourselves but for others. I don't want the variants to be given a chance to multiply. I don't want to see the people in the ports put in danger and I don't want to be on a cruise that is ruined because of an outbreak of COVID.

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, rtazz17 said:

If you are vaccinated you dont have any worries. Can we please get by this. I work in health care as a career. Get your information from credible sources. What I stated is fact. Not 1 documented case of a person who is vaccinated dying from covid. 

That assertion is absolutely untrue. If you work in healthcare you must know that or are seriously misinformed. As of June 1, there have been just over 3000 breakthrough COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths reported. 535 were fatalities. Yes, it is a minuscule amount given the millions who have been fully vaccinated and the risk of serious infection or death is effectively zero, but it is inaccurate to say no one has died of COVID following vaccination.  
 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

 

[takeabreath3]

1 hour ago, csnarpy said:

 

"Gov. Greg Abbott said Tuesday that he banned state agencies, political subdivisions and organizations receiving public funds from creating "vaccine passports" or otherwise requiring someone to provide proof of a COVID-19 vaccine in order to receive services.

This comes as vaccine credentials, often referred to as vaccine passports, are being developed around the world as a way to quickly prove someone's vaccination status. It has become a fierce debate, with Republicans largely opposing the move, saying it is an infringement on individual freedoms and privacy. Supporters, including a number of private companies, point to the passports as a way to confidently return to activities and ensure safety at workplaces.

A handful of GOP-backed bills have been introduced in states across the U.S. aiming to restrict entities from requiring vaccines for their employees, including in Texas. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis also prohibited state agencies from using vaccine passports but went a step further and said no business can require their customers to display them."

 

Can you please tell me where it says that Texas passed the LAW that Cruise Lines are not allowed to ask for proof of vaxed?  The LAW that Desantis passed in Florida has absolutely nothing to do with the Lawsuit against the CDC.  As you can see from the above exert the BAN in Texas only applies to Government agencies............last I checked RCL is not a Government agency.

 

Come on guys, again take a deep breath and chill.  Let's just wait and see what happens in the next several months.  At some point in time (and hopefully in the very near future) the fact that you are vaxed or not vaxed will be a mute point.

 

Sea ya all on the Sea, Judy

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by takeabreath3
remove quote

[cruiserking]

1 hour ago, ccndfw said:

They had almost 18 months to come up with new policies… there is a lot more known about Covid than there was in the beginning.  I seriously doubt they will quarantine a whole ship and keep them stuck at sea again.  They have to make money and its not profitable to create another nightmare sailing experience.  Find out what their plans are for these types of worst case scenarios and then decide how it would impact you. These initial cruises are not going to be 100% perfect and anyone not having patience or flexibility should probably stay home.

The point is as a vaccinated passenger we should be able to walk freely around the ship without social distancing or masks. Because of this inane change of policy vaccinated passengers will have to do all of the things we had hoped to avoid, plus our cruise may very well end early when unvaccinated passengers get infected. 

 

Jonathan

[Mikew0805]

1 hour ago, jp2746 said:

I guess we should ban all kids.  

I vote for this in all places, everywhere. I am allergic. 😜

[poocher]

MOOT point.  Mute means silent and there’s nothing silent about the vaccine debate!  Also the sun kills Covid?  Did I miss a fake newscast?!!!!

[L454S]

3 hours ago, alangee said:

As one who has cruised on Royal many times in the past, I must say, never again. We booked two cruises for early next year with the assurance that Royal would be maintaining strict COVID protocols. The fact that they are now going to allow un-vaccinated passengers on board is a total breach of contract under which we booked the cruises. I understand, when one needs to cancel their cruise for most appropriate reasons within the proper time frame, they would be afforded a credit towards a future cruise. The fact that Royal has totally changed their safety protocols is a breach of contract, and we should be allowed a refund. Of course they have turned us down on that.

 

Forget about the money we are going to lose, but allowing non-vaccinated passengers on a cruise is downright irresponsible. My wife and I are fully vaccinated, but those who are not could be carrying virus and pass it on to others who are not vaccinated. The more people who are not vaccinated and catching COVID, the greater the growth of variants. 

 

Unvaccinated passengers could bring the virus to the ports we visit, many of which are already impoverished with poor health facilities.

 

Cruises could be cut short or stranded at sea if a COVID outbreak occurs on a ship. We saw the nightmare of COVID on cruise ships in the early stages of the pandemic. Do you want to risk more nightmares on the seas. And if that happens, there might end up being a longer and more severe shut down of the cruise industry.

 

What Royal Caribbean has done is disgusting and irresponsible.

 

 

 

Please stay home, it's way too dangerous for you to consider getting too close to THOSE people......

Oh, the horror..........

 

[At Sea At Peace]

3 hours ago, alangee said:

As one who has cruised on Royal many times in the past, I must say, never again. We booked two cruises for early next year with the assurance that Royal would be maintaining strict COVID protocols. The fact that they are now going to allow un-vaccinated passengers on board is a total breach of contract under which we booked the cruises. I understand, when one needs to cancel their cruise for most appropriate reasons within the proper time frame, they would be afforded a credit towards a future cruise. The fact that Royal has totally changed their safety protocols is a breach of contract, and we should be allowed a refund. Of course they have turned us down on that.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, we think that is unfair.

 

If it was contracted as you say, very reasonable to very upset.

 

 

[At Sea At Peace]

1 hour ago, newcruzer2 said:

I am vaccinated BUT the WORRY is being stuck at sea because of an outbreak in the ship's unvaccinated population !!!!!!!

 

Good reason for concern.  Recommend not cruising until resolved.

[At Sea At Peace]

1 hour ago, handbellplayer said:

I am vaccinated and not the least bit afraid of getting sick.  I am afraid that an outbreak would negatively affect my cruising experience due to a shortened cruise, mandatory masking, closed venues, etc.

 

Another good reason for concern.  Recommend not cruising until resolved.

[poocher]

Buried Somewhere in that contract is language that allows them to change the terms of the contract almost at will.  I understand you being upset but don’t think they have LEGALLY breached the contract.  Morally, ethically probably but it’s the legal aspect that would get you a refund.

[At Sea At Peace]

1 hour ago, Seville2Cabo said:

Per the CDC, about 160 people died from Covid after fully vaccinated

 

 

160 died (likely) 'with Covid not 'from Covid or the vaccine.  But let leave for that.

 

The US has approximately 300,000,000 vaccinated.  160 'deaths.'  That is 5.333333333333333e-7 (0.0000005333333)!

 

We should do what?  Lockdown?

[At Sea At Peace]

1 hour ago, ronandcarla said:

'We totally agree with your entire statement.  We haven't been on a cruise for about 7 or 8 years and had every intention to start up again this coming Feb-Mar time period and when we heard this news that RCCL changed their  Covid 19  vaccination proof requirement to meet Gov DeSantis' ridiculous political law we changed our mind and decided to wait and see how it goes.  I'm so hoping that Disney with all of their power will require the vaccination proof and at that time DeSantis will come to his senses and amend his political law.

 

Hopefully, we can resist the urge to insert politics into this thread and have it locked or lost.  It takes self-control, it's hard.  Cruising is what we're all hoping for.  😊

[Seville2Cabo]

3 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

160 died (likely) 'with Covid not 'from Covid or the vaccine.  But let leave for that.

 

The US has approximately 300,000,000 vaccinated.  160 'deaths.'  That is 5.333333333333333e-7 (0.0000005333333)!

 

We should do what?  Lockdown?

I agree, but was responding to another poster that said absolutely no one had died of Covid after the vaccine, which is not true.   IMO, the number rounds to zero and it seems those that did die from Covid after the vaccine had autoimmune issues.  

 

BTW - don’t think the US has 300 million vaccinated.  

[At Sea At Peace]

59 minutes ago, ronandcarla said:

There's an awful lot of the unvaccinated folks who still love to have fun, but somehow they have this stupid mindset that they don't want to be told what to do in re vaccinations requirements or suggestions to take care of themselves and of course us, sort of that's called society.  Those folks are  the ones who can cause trouble for everybody, 

 

Included in the population of "unvaccinated" are those with natural immunity; estimates of 50, 70 to 90 million.  Some have subsequently been vaccinated some have not.  I have not seen that data.

 

So, in the "unvaccinated, previously infected, natural immunity population," the science is not settled as to whether that immunity, in the long-term (in the short term is wanes quicker than the vaccine after it quickly defeats the virus) research suggests that it in the bone marrow, quiescent, just sitting in the bone marrow and secreting antibodies.

 

The science isn't settled on this.

 

Nor the effect of vaccination on natural immunity.

 

Nor the effect, long-term, of vaccination of the young ~ under 17 there have been 300 deaths ('with Covid).

 

We've got to let that massive population have some 'slack.  We now know that those guiding us don't know now.

 

Reasonable people would understand this.

[xpcdoojk]

3 hours ago, alangee said:

As one who has cruised on Royal many times in the past, I must say, never again. We booked two cruises for early next year with the assurance that Royal would be maintaining strict COVID protocols. The fact that they are now going to allow un-vaccinated passengers on board is a total breach of contract under which we booked the cruises. I understand, when one needs to cancel their cruise for most appropriate reasons within the proper time frame, they would be afforded a credit towards a future cruise. The fact that Royal has totally changed their safety protocols is a breach of contract, and we should be allowed a refund. Of course they have turned us down on that.

 

Forget about the money we are going to lose, but allowing non-vaccinated passengers on a cruise is downright irresponsible. My wife and I are fully vaccinated, but those who are not could be carrying virus and pass it on to others who are not vaccinated. The more people who are not vaccinated and catching COVID, the greater the growth of variants. 

 

Unvaccinated passengers could bring the virus to the ports we visit, many of which are already impoverished with poor health facilities.

 

Cruises could be cut short or stranded at sea if a COVID outbreak occurs on a ship. We saw the nightmare of COVID on cruise ships in the early stages of the pandemic. Do you want to risk more nightmares on the seas. And if that happens, there might end up being a longer and more severe shut down of the cruise industry.

 

What Royal Caribbean has done is disgusting and irresponsible.

 

 

Since, you won’t be sailing with Royal ever again.  I wish to give you a hearty goodbye!  You will be missed in this forum.

 

jc😇😂🤣

[At Sea At Peace]

5 minutes ago, Seville2Cabo said:

I agree, but was responding to another poster that said absolutely no one had died of Covid after the vaccine, which is not true.   IMO, the number rounds to zero and it seems those that did die from Covid after the vaccine had autoimmune issues.  

 

BTW - don’t think the US has 300 million vaccinated.  

 

Good point, as "doses administered" is what I was looking at.

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by At Sea At Peace