Florida wins so Carnival can sail with kids

[skridge]

Just now, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

A friend of mine took a 10 day trip on Amtrak last September. 

I'm pretty sure Amtrak got a special exemption because it was deemed essential for commuters.  I don't agree with it, but at the end of the day it is really not comparable to the cruise ships which proved in March 2020 to be super spreaders.  

[AtSeaWithChris]

1 minute ago, skridge said:

but at the end of the day it is really not comparable to the cruise ships which proved in March 2020 to be super spreaders.  

rhetoric is all that is. I huge media honeypot

[SRQbeachgirl]

4 minutes ago, skridge said:

I'm pretty sure Amtrak got a special exemption because it was deemed essential for commuters.  I don't agree with it, but at the end of the day it is really not comparable to the cruise ships which proved in March 2020 to be super spreaders.  

 

Ironically enough, that was the CDC's whole argument in federal court. The judge disagreed.

Edited June 20, 2021 by SRQbeachgirl

[skridge]

1 minute ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

rhetoric is all that is. I huge media honeypot

So the 712 people that got it on one cruise ship with 14 of those people dying was political rhetoric?  Interesting.

[skridge]

7 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

Ironically enough, that was the CDC's whole argument in federal court. The judge disagreed.

If the judge doesn't think that 712 out of 3,711 people getting the virus is not a super spreader event then I would love to know what his or her idea of a super spreader event might be.

[SRQbeachgirl]

4 minutes ago, skridge said:

So the 712 people that got it on one cruise ship with 14 of those people dying was political rhetoric?  Interesting.

 

It was a result of inadequate and faulty quarantine procedures, lack of knowledge as to what type of illness they were dealing with, and yes, there were some politics involved. 

 

Chronology of COVID-19 Cases on the Diamond Princess Cruise Ship and Ethical Considerations: A Report From Japan (nih.gov)

 

"Denying a ship’s entry based on local politics is incompatible with global justice. Events such as these require an international response and global regulations that seek to reduce disparities."

[jimbo5544]

15 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

It has nothing to do with Amtrak, either. Cruises do not provide transportation and are not subject to TSA. Pot meet kettle.

Limited space for long periods.  Even more dramatic than being on a cruise ship.  Of course we can find factors in any analogy that demonstrate either to demonstrate the tie or a difference, but it does not dilute the point.  

[SRQbeachgirl]

2 minutes ago, skridge said:

If the judge doesn't think that 712 out of 3,711 people getting the virus is not a super spreader event then I would love to know what his or her idea of a super spreader event might be.

 

The judge never said the Princess event was not a super spreader. But he did say that basing decisions now, given the vaccines, natural immunity, therapeutic drugs, and current knowledge on an event that occurred prior to any of those developments is not appropriate.

 

If you haven't read the ruling, I encourage you to do so. It was exceptionally detailed and addressed a lot of the things the CC community has been going back and forth over for a while. 

[jimbo5544]

5 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

It was a result of inadequate and faulty quarantine procedures, lack of knowledge as to what type of illness they were dealing with, and yes, there were some politics involved. 

 

Chronology of COVID-19 Cases on the Diamond Princess Cruise Ship and Ethical Considerations: A Report From Japan (nih.gov)

 

"Denying a ship’s entry based on local politics is incompatible with global justice. Events such as these require an international response and global regulations that seek to reduce disparities."

Have we had any super spreader events since last August (it would be even longer but that is when cruising resumed)?  No, of course not.  Because of your points listed in this post.  

Edited June 20, 2021 by jimbo5544

[skridge]

4 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

It was a result of inadequate and faulty quarantine procedures, lack of knowledge as to what type of illness they were dealing with, and yes, there were some politics involved. 

 

Chronology of COVID-19 Cases on the Diamond Princess Cruise Ship and Ethical Considerations: A Report From Japan (nih.gov)

 

"Denying a ship’s entry based on local politics is incompatible with global justice. Events such as these require an international response and global regulations that seek to reduce disparities."

I am not going to read that entire article.  I stand by my position that it most definitely was a super spreader event no matter which side of the political spectrum you are on.

[skridge]

4 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Have we had any super spreader events since last August (it would be even longer but that is when cruising resumed)?  No, of course not.  Because of your points listed in this post.  

September 26th Rose Garden super spreader event right outside the White House.

[SRQbeachgirl]

Just now, skridge said:

I am not going to read that entire article.  I stand by my position that it most definitely was a super spreader event no matter which side of the political spectrum you are on.

 

I think we all agree that it was a super spreader event. That is not in dispute. The judge acknowledged it was a super spreader event. What the report discusses is one of the reasons why it was a super spreader event. Those same conditions are no longer in place.

 

[skridge]

8 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

The judge never said the Princess event was not a super spreader. But he did say that basing decisions now, given the vaccines, natural immunity, therapeutic drugs, and current knowledge on an event that occurred prior to any of those developments is not appropriate.

 

If you haven't read the ruling, I encourage you to do so. It was exceptionally detailed and addressed a lot of the things the CC community has been going back and forth over for a while. 

If you look at post #654 that is what you said.  

[BlerkOne]

30 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

They aren't subject to TSA, but a federal judge disagrees with you on the transportation issue.

The federal judge errored. That alone would be grounds for an appeal. In general, transportation moves you from point A to point B and not Point A to Point A. The examples the judge gave receive tax payer dollars and have oversight on different levels - not just the CDC. PVSA forbids most cruises from taking passengers from one US port and leaving them in a different US port. Etc. Etc. Etc.

[BlerkOne]

17 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Limited space for long periods.  Even more dramatic than being on a cruise ship.  Of course we can find factors in any analogy that demonstrate either to demonstrate the tie or a difference, but it does not dilute the point.  

with masks. Providing primarily essential travel and not non-essential vacation. Limited meal service. Subsidized by tax dollars. Members of Congress routinely take trains.

[skridge]

6 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

I think we all agree that it was a super spreader event. That is not in dispute. The judge acknowledged it was a super spreader event. What the report discusses is one of the reasons why it was a super spreader event. Those same conditions are no longer in place.

 

I was commenting based on what you said in your post.  

[BlerkOne]

48 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

Ironically enough, that was the CDC's whole argument in federal court. The judge disagreed.

Certainly grounds to question to the competence of the CDC lawyers, unless they have something up their sleeve.

[kdr69]

6 hours ago, balcony bound said:

TN, try Zoono.  Hand sanitizer that doesn't wash off, good for about 24 hours.  You can still wash hands, and have the protection of the hand sanitizer without re-applying.  Certified germaphone here LOL.  I've taken it on all cruises since I started using it.

 

 

Where do you find that?

[AtSeaWithChris]

34 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The federal judge errored. That alone would be grounds for an appeal. In general, transportation moves you from point A to point B and not Point A to Point A. The examples the judge gave receive tax payer dollars and have oversight on different levels - not just the CDC. PVSA forbids most cruises from taking passengers from one US port and leaving them in a different US port. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Come on. The judge erred? Who has the most expertise in deciding that you or the judge?

[kdr69]

4 hours ago, MrMarc said:

On one hand the CDC's actions are unconstitutional, on the other hand if the Judge thinks they are more reasonable,  they become constitutional?

He never said the CDC's actions were unconstitutional he said they went way beyond the scope of their authority as laid out in the Legislation.  

[BlerkOne]

13 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Where do you find that?

You should research before taking the plunge. Many claims are suspect, as is shelf life, etc.

[BlerkOne]

3 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

Come on. The judge erred? Who has the most expertise in deciding that you or the judge?

The appeals court. The judge is blind.

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

1 hour ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

It was a result of inadequate and faulty quarantine procedures, lack of knowledge as to what type of illness they were dealing with, and yes, there were some politics involved. 

 

Chronology of COVID-19 Cases on the Diamond Princess Cruise Ship and Ethical Considerations: A Report From Japan (nih.gov)

 

"Denying a ship’s entry based on local politics is incompatible with global justice. Events such as these require an international response and global regulations that seek to reduce disparities."

I see......

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-sick-ship-approval-fort-lauderdale-20200329-pymhibz6bvduxbwfgk2mil23ku-story.html%3foutputType=amp

 

and see......

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wsvn.com/news/local/florida/gov-desantis-orders-checkpoints-on-i-10-and-i-95-to-screen-travelers/amp/

Edited June 20, 2021 by TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail

[AtSeaWithChris]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

The appeals court. The judge is blind.

I bet they won't appeal. That that's opinion just like yours. 

[BlerkOne]

3 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

I bet they won't appeal. That that's opinion just like yours. 

They won't have to. They will come back with a modified CSO that accomplishes much the same, backed by science.