Reasons Why The Idiom, "Friends of Dorothy" Needs To Be Retired...

[CDNPolar]

12 hours ago, cruiseny4life said:

 

 

Can't we just not really care about what it's called, kick back and have a conversation with each other on a cruise ship? I'm not sure why all the fuss. 

 

Exactly!  The fact that cruise ships are being inclusive and offering "us" a meeting point or venue to get acquainted is great.  Perhaps they are off on their terminology by a decade or 4 is beside the point.

 

We don't attend these gatherings on any ship anyway.  When I bring up to my husband when I see it on the daily schedule, his answer is a question, Why?

 

We make friends with friendly people on the cruise ship and don't care if they are straight or gay and any derivation of the alphabet of 2SLBGTQ+.

 

[RICHARD@SEA]

On 11/6/2023 at 1:53 PM, 9tee2Sea said:

• I may be very late to this thread, but my understanding of Friends of Dorothy went back to secretive days of being gay.  The " bars " doors were closed, so when one knocked, the person who opened it would ask Are you friends of Dorothy?  Now, it may have to do with Wizard of Oz, or maybe Dorothy Parker ( a famous writer way back), or maybe that was just a street slang gay folks were called ( like i hate it when Mary is used by other gay men).  anyway, I prefer FOD instead of whatever letters have been added to the alphabet.

Its ironic - I'm in my mid 60's & have been vacationing aboard ocean liners & cruise ships since the 1970's.  Back then & into the 1980's it took a while for the FOD's Party to show up on the daily program - usually in one of the smaller venues as a cocktail party.  The hosts were cruise or assistant cruise directors.  Usually there would be 10 - 25 men joining in - remember most ships except QE2 & THE FRANCE had less than 1,000 passengers.

Those in the know appreciated it & not once were we bothered & the crew really had fun w us. Sometimes an officer would join in & the drinks would go onto dinner.  I liked the Italian ships the best...they knew how to enjoy LIFE!!

 

Now with all the fuss w the Alphabet Soup of identities its tiresome.  There is a time & place for everything...next thing there will be straight couples having protests....

 

Conduct yourself  w respect for others...have fun and just live!

 

[9tee2Sea]

2 hours ago, RICHARD@SEA said:

Its ironic - I'm in my mid 60's & have been vacationing aboard ocean liners & cruise ships since the 1970's.  Back then & into the 1980's it took a while for the FOD's Party to show up on the daily program - usually in one of the smaller venues as a cocktail party.  The hosts were cruise or assistant cruise directors.  Usually there would be 10 - 25 men joining in - remember most ships except QE2 & THE FRANCE had less than 1,000 passengers.

Those in the know appreciated it & not once were we bothered & the crew really had fun w us. Sometimes an officer would join in & the drinks would go onto dinner.  I liked the Italian ships the best...they knew how to enjoy LIFE!!

 

Now with all the fuss w the Alphabet Soup of identities its tiresome.  There is a time & place for everything...next thing there will be straight couples having protests....

 

Conduct yourself  w respect for others...have fun and just live!

 

amen. Mid 60's here too.  I remember things thrown at me from cars when walking to the disco at night.  I remember some of the colored handkerchief codes, and what side they should be on.  I still go to FOD when on boards ships.  Gaydar always kicks in when on a cruise ship, whether  in a sponsored meet up, or not.

[CDNPolar]

Early mid sixties here... haha...  agree  -  just have fun and do what you want to do.  I guess I don't today understand the need for 'us' to group together.  I don't need to meet other gay men on a ship to enjoy myself.  We have made great friends cruising and none of them are gay.

[trummy]

Think how far the LGBTQ community has come, that this is even a topic.

[fshepinc]

Sadly, I very much fear we could be going backwards, what with all the hatred, violence, and new criminalizations around the world (and at home). 😞 

[RICHARD@SEA]

I just returned from a 9 day cruise on HAL ROTTERDAM.....

I travelled solo & among 2600+ passengers I "saw" very few male couples...maybe 3.... there was a LG gathering posted in the daily on the first sea - I just think no one showed up.

 

What this tells me is that people are more likely to blend in & exist  - for those that want a gay meet & greet all you have to do is ask guest services.

 

I'm very independent & I don't think I ever went to a Meet & greet but should  someone interesting sit next to me or nearby & we start a conversation that I enjoy.  I did meet an officer onboard & we exchanged  contact info.

 

One point of the gay movement was acceptance...tho not perfect, today(for the most part) I/ we can participate in mainstream life. There will always be the CRAZIES everywhere...just keep walking [past them & live!!!

[CDNPolar]

On 12/8/2023 at 8:42 AM, RICHARD@SEA said:

I just returned from a 9 day cruise on HAL ROTTERDAM.....

I travelled solo & among 2600+ passengers I "saw" very few male couples...maybe 3.... there was a LG gathering posted in the daily on the first sea - I just think no one showed up.

 

What this tells me is that people are more likely to blend in & exist  - for those that want a gay meet & greet all you have to do is ask guest services.

 

I'm very independent & I don't think I ever went to a Meet & greet but should  someone interesting sit next to me or nearby & we start a conversation that I enjoy.  I did meet an officer onboard & we exchanged  contact info.

 

One point of the gay movement was acceptance...tho not perfect, today(for the most part) I/ we can participate in mainstream life. There will always be the CRAZIES everywhere...just keep walking [past them & live!!!

 

I totally agree on the acceptance thing that you suggest.  I just like to go on the cruise with my husband and be accepted as a couple like everyone else, and not be excluded or shunned because we are gay.  I also don't want to go to the meetups just to find other gay folks to hang out with...

 

I will use my home city of Toronto as the example.

 

Growing up gay in Toronto (I am early 60's now) we had the Gay Village and that was the centre point of all the gay community.  If you wanted to have a romantic dinner with your wife or husband then you went there to a gay restaurant where you would be accepted.

 

The gay village still exists to a certain extent in Toronto but you can go have that romantic dinner anywhere in my fine city and really not be concerned that you won't be accepted.  

 

Accepted being the key word.

 

I honed in on your comment "I just think no one showed up" to the gathering.  

 

We never go to these so I would never know if there were other gay singles or couples on the ship unless it was obvious and sometimes it is...

 

We look for any authentic individual or couple that just wants to connect and talk and share experiences regardless of who they love.

[Seamus6]

I've never been a fan of the FOD moniker but I dislike the alphabet soup even more.  As a few others have mentioned, it seems to engender a feeling of activism.  When I'm on a cruise, I'm on on vacation and want to relax and stay away from politics. 

We don't make much of an an effort to go to the gatherings these days.  I've never had a memorable incident with a straight person on a cruise but can remember a few with my FOD peers that were quite unfriendly/rude if they heard a single conservative idea espoused or anything they didn't agree with.

 

My DH and I are Boomer and GenX and seem to get on well with people our age whether they are gay or straight.  I have found that if I am talking with someone of our generations that have differing opinions, all sides have the grace to change the subject while sometimes the younger crowd are more fond of pushing the envelope.

 

We're sailing next on HAL so we're looking forward to seeing how that goes.

 

Cheers to all!

 

[CDNPolar]

13 hours ago, Seamus6 said:

I've never been a fan of the FOD moniker but I dislike the alphabet soup even more.  As a few others have mentioned, it seems to engender a feeling of activism.  When I'm on a cruise, I'm on on vacation and want to relax and stay away from politics. 

We don't make much of an an effort to go to the gatherings these days.  I've never had a memorable incident with a straight person on a cruise but can remember a few with my FOD peers that were quite unfriendly/rude if they heard a single conservative idea espoused or anything they didn't agree with.

 

My DH and I are Boomer and GenX and seem to get on well with people our age whether they are gay or straight.  I have found that if I am talking with someone of our generations that have differing opinions, all sides have the grace to change the subject while sometimes the younger crowd are more fond of pushing the envelope.

 

We're sailing next on HAL so we're looking forward to seeing how that goes.

 

Cheers to all!

 

 

Like your way of looking at it.

 

I really don't like any of the labels that we have had over the years but because I am very active in Corporate Learning and Development globally, I have to keep up with what the accepted norm is when talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion.

 

The rough part for me is that I have a hard time keeping up with the alphabet soup:

 

LGBTQQIP2SA:  Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, Pansexual, Two-Spirited, and Asexual.

 

I guess (kidding) that I don't understand why we don't add "straight" to this list because it may be the only thing missing.

[fshepinc]

When the Flag of the United States was first created, the plan was to have one star and one stripe for each former colony that became a state. As new states joined a star and stripe were added, but very quickly the shape of the flag became awkward, and then impossible. It was decided to go back to the original, 13 stripes, but keep adding stars as needed. Our community faces a similar dilemma, as we try to be ever more inclusive. The original “everybody is represented“ rainbow flag keeps getting new stripes added with different colors. There is also the new section with the angled stripes. And what is the result? Everybody now has to have their own flag! There are more than 30 different flags to represent all of the different ideas of gender and gender expression and sexuality. How can we possibly unite under such a fragmented system?

 

I long for the good old days when the discussion centered around whether we should say “gay and lesbian,” or “lesbian and gay…”

[Seamus6]

9 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

The rough part for me is that I have a hard time keeping up with the alphabet soup:

 

LGBTQQIP2SA:  Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, Pansexual, Two-Spirited, and Asexual.

 

I'm with ya.  When someone posted 2S earlier, I had to look it up.  I had heard of two spirit but never seen it in the mix.  

[CDNPolar]

40 minutes ago, Seamus6 said:

 

I'm with ya.  When someone posted 2S earlier, I had to look it up.  I had heard of two spirit but never seen it in the mix.  

 

In Canada it is very common to see 2S and it is generally at the beginning:  2SLGBTQQIPA

 

This may not be a good comment to make, and I mean no disrespect to anyone, but I don't see why we group all these different identities together.  We don't even necessarily have anything in common other than we are not "straight".  Even the straight community has a lot of diverse and deviant groups, why don't they have their list of letters?

 

I just don't see why we have to label everyone.  Just be you and go about your life.

[Jay Es]

Let's start a movement to just say "gay community" and not let anyone correct us. Who's with me? 😃

[Seamus6]

3 minutes ago, Jay Es said:

Let's start a movement to just say "gay community" and not let anyone correct us. Who's with me? 😃

 

I'm cool with that.  Everybody else can come up with a name they're comfortable with personally or in groups.

 

It's brilliant.....so it will never catch on...sigh

[CDNPolar]

12 hours ago, Jay Es said:

Let's start a movement to just say "gay community" and not let anyone correct us. Who's with me? 😃

 

12 hours ago, Seamus6 said:

 

I'm cool with that.  Everybody else can come up with a name they're comfortable with personally or in groups.

 

It's brilliant.....so it will never catch on...sigh

 

I am with you!

[RetiredOnVacation]

On 4/1/2024 at 11:50 AM, CDNPolar said:

 

Like your way of looking at it.

 

I really don't like any of the labels that we have had over the years but because I am very active in Corporate Learning and Development globally, I have to keep up with what the accepted norm is when talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion.

 

The rough part for me is that I have a hard time keeping up with the alphabet soup:

 

LGBTQQIP2SA:  Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, Pansexual, Two-Spirited, and Asexual.

 

I guess (kidding) that I don't understand why we don't add "straight" to this list because it may be the only thing missing.

What's wrong with just 'same-sex attracted'?  For a group who dislike labels, we go and add more and more to that alphabet soup! I get what you're saying! 

[Jay Es]

1 minute ago, RetiredOnVacation said:

What's wrong with just 'same-sex attracted'?  For a group who dislike labels, we go and add more and more to that alphabet soup! I get what you're saying! 

SSA is the new label. 😄

[cruiseny4life]

SSA isn't inclusive of all...let's just go with Friends of Cher and the Golden Girls! Or Friends of QAF.

[RetiredOnVacation]

3 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

SSA isn't inclusive of all...let's just go with Friends of Cher and the Golden Girls! Or Friends of QAF.

To be inclusive of all, it has to be the entire ship! 

 

Could always use the good old rainbow flag!? Oh wait, there's '00s of those now too! Doh! 

[cruiseny4life]

Those are some right colorful flags....hmm...someone's gotta come up with a few more so we could fly one flag per week of the year! 

[CDNPolar]

11 minutes ago, RetiredOnVacation said:

What's wrong with just 'same-sex attracted'?  For a group who dislike labels, we go and add more and more to that alphabet soup! I get what you're saying! 

 

5 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

SSA isn't inclusive of all...let's just go with Friends of Cher and the Golden Girls! Or Friends of QAF.

 

6 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

SSA isn't inclusive of all...let's just go with Friends of Cher and the Golden Girls! Or Friends of QAF.

 

Just now, RetiredOnVacation said:

To be inclusive of all, it has to be the entire ship! 

 

Could always use the good old rainbow flag!? Oh wait, there's '00s of those now too! Doh! 

 

I would rather have no labels but we are a society of people who love to apply a label to both themselves and others.  Labels won't go away. 

 

What is the saying my Mother used, and likely others out there...?

 

Call me anything you want, just don't call me late for dinner.

[CDNPolar]

4 minutes ago, RetiredOnVacation said:

To be inclusive of all, it has to be the entire ship! 

 

Could always use the good old rainbow flag!? Oh wait, there's '00s of those now too! Doh! 

 

How the heck is anyone going to look at any one of these flying anywhere and say, oh my gosh, that is the Rubber Pride flag!  I never even knew that there was a Rubber Pride flag.  Who dreams these up?  Do they go in front of a Gay Legislature for approval?

[RetiredOnVacation]

6 minutes ago, CDNPolar said:

 

.  Who dreams these up?  Do they go in front of a Gay Legislature for approval?

Stonewall? 

[CDNPolar]

Oh, and no offence to rubber lovers.  I don’t discriminate any group and their likes.