Why the change in terminology from "semi-formal" to "informal?"

[Thunderbolt]

Thanks Rev Neal, your description is in perfectly clear and helpful… I think if I were to analyze my costume… I will be under dressed then average on Formal night but a tad overdressed on Informal night by just removing the tie from my dark Business suit.

Thanks AlexandNessa, I thought as much but I am starting to move into that what am I going to pack faze of the cruise countdown.

The name does have to be changed since “informal” sounds like casual. I vote for Semi-Formal to be closer to being descriptive.

[RevNeal]

Dutch, does a bandana knotted around the throat count as a tie? *impish grin*

 

That would be an "ascot." :D

Very form ... in a 1960s/70s kinda of Charles Nelson Reilly or Paul Lynde style.

[fridayeyes]

A curiosity question - I do have a Vera Wang gown. Nordies had it at 95% off - I kid you not - due to some dirt and damage from having been run over by one of those wheeled clothing racks. It is a sort of champagne beige, and looks more like an Oscar gown than a wedding dress. I bought it hoping that after cleaning and mending I could wear it cruising, or to the opera, etc. It is *extremely* formal. Is it possible to be 'over the top' on formal night? On most of my Alaska/Coastal cruises, I think I would have looked over dressed.

 

Now an etiquette question. If a lady wears long gloves with a gown, does she remove them to eat?

 

Opinions?

 

Cheers,

[kakalina]

A curiosity question - I do have a Vera Wang gown. Nordies had it at 95% off - I kid you not - due to some dirt and damage from having been run over by one of those wheeled clothing racks. It is a sort of champagne beige, and looks more like an Oscar gown than a wedding dress. I bought it hoping that after cleaning and mending I could wear it cruising, or to the opera, etc. It is *extremely* formal. Is it possible to be 'over the top' on formal night? On most of my Alaska/Coastal cruises, I think I would have looked over dressed.

 

Now an etiquette question. If a lady wears long gloves with a gown, does she remove them to eat?

 

Opinions?

 

Cheers,

 

Friday, Firstly there is no such thing as over the top on a formal night althought I did question the propriety of one woman wearing a full mink jacket to dinner one evening.

Gloves, if opera length are normally worn the entire evening including while eating. Some formal gloves have buttons that allow the hand to come out while the sleeve of the glove is still on, either one is appropriate. Sounds like you will be gorgeous.

Go for it! :D

 

Trisha

[Dutchman]

That would be an "ascot." :D

Very form ... in a 1960s/70s kinda of Charles Nelson Reilly or Paul Lynde style.

 

I just knew that Greg would set me straight!

[RuthC]

As for Casual Night ... I don't think we have much of a problem with the definition there,

I beg to differ; I believe there's a big misunderstanding as to what constitutes "casual" in the evening. Far too many people confuse it with playclothes; they wear something they would have worn all day.

If HAL would return to a code of "elegantly casual" it might go a long way toward clearing that up.

As far as a change in terminology to "semi-formal", yes, it also might help.

The definitions are quite clear for men; for women, on the other hand, there is no such clarity. The definitions of what constitutes the various levels leaves a lot to interpretation. As long as HAL doesn't define the terms that will remain.

[herb]

I believe there's a big misunderstanding as to what constitutes "casual" in the evening. Far too many people confuse it with playclothes; they wear something they would have worn all day.

If HAL would return to a code of "elegantly casual" it might go a long way toward clearing that up.

 

Well, to clear up the misunderstanding for casual dress they could simply stop beating around the bush and just write... Listen folks, you've been out sightseeing all day or at the beach. Your clothes are filthy, you're covered in suntan oil and you're all sweaty. Therefore we request that before you enter the dining room, please take off those clothes, take a shower, and put on some clean clothes... and .... ENJOY your dinner ;)

As far as a change in terminology to "semi-formal", yes, it also might help.

Agree wholeheartedly!

[RevNeal]

I beg to differ; I believe there's a big misunderstanding as to what constitutes "casual" in the evening. Far too many people confuse it with playclothes; they wear something they would have worn all day.

If HAL would return to a code of "elegantly casual" it might go a long way toward clearing that up.

 

Ruth ... Ruth ... I agree with you. My point was WE -- you, I, and most everybody here -- knows what the definition of Casual is and is not. The Dress Code is also rather clear when it states what is to not be worn on ANY evening. That people disregard it is another problem entirely. :)

[RuthC]

Greg, I posted that as I did because I read a post right here on this very board (came real close to typing right here in River City, but I digress) that one of our members thought shorts and tee-shirts was casual. The post went something to the effect that if it wasn't casual, what is it. That's why I wanted to introduce the term "playclothes" to the discussion. It seems some people don't know there are levels of dress below casual.

 

So, you in NYC? You're gonna love the Noordam.

[RevNeal]

Greg, I posted that as I did because I read a post right here on this very board (came real close to typing right here in River City, but I digress) that one of our members thought shorts and tee-shirts was casual. The post went something to the effect that if it wasn't casual, what is it. That's why I wanted to introduce the term "playclothes" to the discussion. It seems some people don't know there are levels of dress below casual.

 

Got'cha! I understand.

 

So, you in NYC? You're gonna love the Noordam.

 

I have church in the morning. Then, I fly to NYC in the early evening. And, yes, I'm looking forward to this trip. I have been for months, and can hardly believe it's here.

 

I'm glad you get a chance to go aboard and see her!

[NoNoNanette]

Greg, I posted that as I did because I read a post right here on this very board (came real close to typing right here in River City, but I digress) that one of our members thought shorts and tee-shirts was casual.

 

Ruth:

 

I once mentioned "shorts and t-shirts".

 

I've NEVER, nor would I ever wear them in the dining room on any night.

 

I did, however, say that I might consider wearing them after dinner in a cocktail lounge or casino.

 

If I'm the poster that you're referencing, I made NO mention of "CASUAL" dress. I do hope that you weren't referring to one of my posts.

[mark1]

Do I understand you all to say that the changing of a word would get people who do not now comply the rules to comply with them? It's not the label that causes non-compliance. If you think that more clarity would help, simply hand out what is allowed/suggested for each night of the cruise, and post them beforehand on the HAL website. Oh, that's already done. How about each day that the activities of the day include what is dress required/suggested for evening public places. (not just dinner). I suspect that this is done also (at least it was when I went on a Celebrity cruise.

 

In the end, there will be those who simply refuse to follow rules.

 

BTW, I would be so firm as to post "jacket and tie" required at each entrance to public rooms on formal and informal nights. When a majority are Americans, bluntness is sometimes best.

 

mark fro NH

[herb]

All across the boards cruiselines from A-Z, not just Holland America, have this heated attire "discussion" at least once a week.

 

Knowing that most cruiselines do check these message boards, I wonder what they're thinking when they read these threads.

 

I'm sure there's alot of "hey ... you just hafta read this thread"!!

[jhannah]

The Dress Code is also rather clear when it states what is to not be worn on ANY evening. That people disregard it is another problem entirely. :)

Indeed it is. That's the crux of the whole issue that many refuse to recognize.

[RevNeal]

From the HAL Dress Code:

Comfortable, relaxed clothing is fine for evenings designated as casual; however, T-shirts, jeans, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the dining room, Lido restaurant, or public areas during the evening hours.

 

I have seen people who are inappropriately dressed asked to leave the casino by the pit boss. The night I'm thinking of was a Casual Night on the Westerdam in November. The fellow was rather put out. He had been playing all day long and, now that night had arrived, he was informed that he needed to go put on some long pants. The pit boss let him leave the table and his chips without cashing out, watching them and keeping his seat at the table while he went and changed. The boss even let him wait until the shoe was done before he ran to make the change. But he DID have to change. When the man questioned it, the Dress Code was pointed out to him and the words "not allowed" were underlined.

[Thunderbolt]

Well, to clear up the misunderstanding for casual dress they could simply stop beating around the bush and just write... Listen folks, you've been out sightseeing all day or at the beach. Your clothes are filthy, you're covered in suntan oil and you're all sweaty. Therefore we request that before you enter the dining room, please take off those clothes, take a shower, and put on some clean clothes... and .... ENJOY your dinner ;)

 

Agree wholeheartedly!

 

hehe.:D

 

I like it;)

 

Once I get back from ATV riding in Cabo I think I will look just spiffy and smell soooo good...like a rose.:eek:

[RuthC]

If I'm the poster that you're referencing, I made NO mention of "CASUAL" dress. I do hope that you weren't referring to one of my posts.

No need to get so defensive. I wasn't referring to you at all.

[fridayeyes]

Ruth, I've seen Nanette post on other boards, and I think it's a straight assertion - that she hopes you are not referring to her. Any defensiveness is due to some unpleasantness here earlier where some posters *did* misquote and/or exaggerate her posts, unpleasantness in which I believe you played no part.

 

Nanette - RuthC is cool in my book. I don't think she's out to get you.

 

Cheers,

 

Friday

[NoNoNanette]

No need to get so defensive. I wasn't referring to you at all.

 

I'm not being the least bit defensive. Just wanted to make a clarification, Ruth. There's no need to read things that don't exist into my posts. :)

 

*edited to read: That's a SINCERE smile, Ruth.

 

Friday- Thanks for the good words, honey....and your opinion. ;)