Why the change in terminology from "semi-formal" to "informal?"

[mikeyluvscruzn]

Think this is causing a lot of confusion:

 

semiformal: being or suitable for an occasion of moderate formality

 

informal: marked by the absence of formality or ceremony; characteristic of or appropriate to ordinary, casual, or familiar use

 

 

seems to me that "semiformal" would be better for expected attire on "informal" night, if jackets are expected for men.

[RevNeal]

I agree that the terminology should be changed to "Semi-formal." It's been "Informal" for a long time, though, on HAL. As long as I've been sailing with them.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I totally agree with you Greg. We have found so many times that many just do not know how they should dress. This past week on the Oosterdam we saw everything from sparkly dresses to several steps below casual. That is why I have suggested that they just do away with it for the 7 day cruises. There are just so few that are actually dressed correctly. I enjoy it but I think it is just not understood. I think that on the longer cruises more are experienced cruisers especially with HAL and understand the term.

[fridayeyes]

I agree completely; it should be 'semi-formal.' Informal sounds like the opposite of formal, which would be casual.

 

Cheers,

 

Friday

[flashdog_1]

Sure would clarify it.

 

I remember an episode on the tv show "Jag" where Bud was invited to an informal get together given by the Admiral, and he showed up in casual dress and he was embarrassed. Harriet berated him, "don't you know the difference in casual and informal? Informal just means you don't have to wear a tux."

[herb]

I agree completely; it should be 'semi-formal.' Informal sounds like the opposite of formal, which would be casual.

 

Cheers,

 

Friday

 

And here I thought I was the only one who thought the name should be changed to semi-formal!!! Thank you to all who agree.

 

It would make it so much easier:

Formal night: Gentlemen tuxedos, ladies evening gowns

Semi-formal night: Gentlemen suits, ladies cocktail dress or evening pantsuits

Casual : no shorts or jeans in dining room.

[jhannah]

That would be ideal, but it would never fly. Too many people just don't own and won't rent a tux. That's why HAL's literature says that a dark suit is fine for formal night. (A suit is NOT formal attire. It fits more into Herb's semi-formal listing.) Since they don't consistently enforce the dress code now, it's highly unlikely they'd enforce a re-classified one.

[herb]

That would be ideal, but it would never fly. Too many people just don't own and won't rent a tux. That's why HAL's literature says that a dark suit is fine for formal night. (A suit is NOT formal attire. It fits more into Herb's semi-formal listing.) Since they don't consistently enforce the dress code now, it's highly unlikely they'd enforce a re-classified one.

 

Then I would think that what HAL calls FORMAL NIGHT is in truth SEMI-FORMAL NIGHT.

[jhannah]

Maybe they should establish a range. Tonight is formal/semi-formal attire. Tomorrow is country club casual/leisure attire. They have played around with a dining room arrival range of time, so why not suggest a range of attire?

 

NOT!

[kryos]

Maybe they should establish a range. Tonight is formal/semi-formal attire. Tomorrow is country club casual/leisure attire. They have played around with a dining room arrival range of time, so why not suggest a range of attire?

How about making it even simpler?: Formal and country club casual. Informal is a very vague designation anyway. To me, informal just means casual ... and in actuality, for women it is. The informal really only addresses attire for the men ... no tie nececessary. Where formal demands that a man wear a tie.

 

The formal designation can be clarified to let the gentlemen know that a tux is not truly necessary and that a dark suit with tie will do.

 

To be honest ... these dress codes are often very complicated and difficult to understand. It's no wonder some people wind up in the dining room either over or underdressed.

 

If HAL wishes to have a dress code, fine. But make it one that is clear ... easy-to-understand, and ... yes ... even enforced.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kruzkeen]

Maybe they should establish a range. Tonight is formal/semi-formal attire. Tomorrow is country club casual/leisure attire. They have played around with a dining room arrival range of time, so why not suggest a range of attire?

 

NOT!

 

I agree that the informal night could be eliminated and not too many cruisers would be unhappy.

 

I would be happy not to pack the blazer for the informal night that I usually wear with the good dockers and open neck shirt. These pants and shirt could be the same that I could wear for the casual night.

 

I have heard that HAL reads these posts. Could somebody start a poll.

 

Ken

[gizmo]

Think this is causing a lot of confusion:

 

semiformal: being or suitable for an occasion of moderate formality

 

informal: marked by the absence of formality or ceremony; characteristic of or appropriate to ordinary, casual, or familiar use

 

 

seems to me that "semiformal" would be better for expected attire on "informal" night, if jackets are expected for men.

 

I have always agreed with this. Informal has been the most confusing terminology for many cruisers.

 

I always thought they should just drop the informal night on 7 to 10 day cruises.

 

Herb is right, technically Formal is a Tux, BUT I think they should stick with this terminology. Anything less turns into a free for all interpretation.

 

This makes me think of my cousin who lives in Florida. His interpretation is Formal means socks, anything else is no socks. ;)

[Stakeout]

gotta love it.. if they changed it to semi-formal.. then everyone would know what it should be.. and there would be very few threads about it.. so that's why confusion in dress codes makes for an interesting cruise:D:D

[Thunderbolt]

OK…since I am not a big fan of playing dress up but I total respect rules and wish to follow all dress codes let me run this buy those who know this stuff.

My plan is to dress on anything but casual night in my dark suit but will ditch my tie if I see that I am the only one wearing one?

I really do no want to have to pack a suit AND A sport coat. Will I be gawked at if I do this?

Thanks

[AlexandNessa]

Terry, yes, you will be fine dressed as planned. :) Happy cruising.

[kakalina]

I've tried hard not to address this issue on these boards as it tends to start peoples juices flowing ;) . I think the term informal is misleading. If there must be a designation for that type of dress then informal would be more appropriate.

 

I always follow the dress code of the evening. I understand the rule for the dining room, wait; no I really don't. I do understand the ambiance is nicer, I like to get "dressed to the nines" myself from time to time, I also understand the no shorts no jeans rule. What I do not understand is why some people are offended by what others wear. If it is a formal night and I had a rough day and wish to dress more casually while playing in the casino or even seeing a show ( in the dark ) what possible difference or effect could I possibly have on others enjoyment of their evening?

 

If it is simply because they feel better about themselves I don't see the point. For example, one can walk into any really nice casino/hotel in Las Vegas and see people wearing everything from tuxes and gowns to shorts and tee shirts. And amazingly enough, they are all having a good time. I realize that a cruise ship isn't Las Vegas and I wouldn't want it to be so. But it isn't Buckingham Palace either.

Aren't we all adult enough to allow each other the freedom to dress the way we are comfortable on vacation?

 

Sorry, this is the first time I've gotten "on my soapbox" here on the boards but I just had to put in my two cents worth. :o

 

Trisha

[NoNoNanette]

Oh, Tina-

 

That's going to cause some heads to explode. ;)

[kakalina]

Oh, Tina-

 

That's going to cause some heads to explode. ;)

 

Who me???:confused: :confused:

TRISHA

[RevNeal]

The formal designation can be clarified to let the gentlemen know that a tux is not truly necessary and that a dark suit with tie will do.

 

Rita, this has already been done ... long ago. The Dress Code is not at all confusing in what it actually says -- it's the nomenclature that is applied for "Informal" night that is problematic. Again, the Dress Code says the following relative to Formal Night wear:

 

On festive formal evenings, women usually wear cocktail dresses or gowns and men usually wear business suits or tuxedos. There are approximately two formal nights per week. (Gentlemen: Although business suits or tuxedos are suggested attire for formal evenings, they are certainly not required. You are welcome to wear a jacket and tie on formal nights.)

 

As I have said many times on this board and on other threads, the language used in the above makes it clear that a jacket and tie are what is required for men on Formal Night, but that the line suggests a Tuxedo or Business Suit. The next step down, to Informal Night, reads as follows:

 

During informal nights, dresses or pantsuits for women and jackets (tie optional) for men are standard.

 

The minimal difference, for men, between Informal Night and Formal Night is that on Informal Night men may leave the tie in the stateroom if they wish. That's IT. Oh, the general atmosphere is quite a bit different throughout the ship, in what the staff is wearing, and in how everybody dresses, but that's the basic idea.

 

As I have said before, a guy can "get away" with the following garb and still be dressed according to the Line's Code:

 

Casual Night - lacks (Dockers, if desired) and button down dress shirt

Informal Night - Slacks, button down shirt dress, jacket

Formal Night - Slacks, button down dress shirt with tie, jacket

 

This is why I say that the minimal Dress Code for men on HAL is NOT difficult to follow. I've seen men do the above and they look just fine. They certainly DON'T stand out like a sore thumb on Formal Night ... as they would if they were slouching around in jeans and t-shirt (as I've seen a rare few do).

 

HAL should, indeed, adjust their Dress Code nomenclature for men to something like the following:

 

Formal Night - Tuxedos, Business Suits, or Jacket and Slacks (Tie Required)

Semi-Formal Night - Suits or Jacket and Slacks (tie optional)

 

As for Casual Night ... I don't think we have much of a problem with the definition there, though perhaps calling it "Business Casual" or "Resort Casual" might be a little better.

[NoNoNanette]

Who me???:confused: :confused:

TRISHA

 

Yikes. Sorry, Trisha. Dunno who "Tina" is.:o

[Dutchman]

All of these are great replies and I think that most of us are in lock step with the definitians. But does this mean that on an Alskan cruise that I should or should not wear a tie with my red flanel shirt? Just asking

[fridayeyes]

Dutch, does a bandana knotted around the throat count as a tie? *impish grin*

 

Legal disclaimer: This has been a test of your Humor Detection System. This is only a Test. In the event of a real Humor Emergency, I will hold up cue cards that say "Laugh Now!" We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

Cheers,

 

Friday

[Dutchman]

Dutch, does a bandana knotted around the throat count as a tie? *impish grin*

 

Legal disclaimer: This has been a test of your Humor Detection System. This is only a Test. In the event of a real Humor Emergency, I will hold up cue cards that say "Laugh Now!" We not return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

Cheers,

 

Friday

 

Only if you are wearing the Red Flanel cap with ear flaps!!!

[herb]

It seems that all the misconceptions and misinterpretations regarding the wording used by the cruiselines about "proper" dining room attire really have to do with what the gentlemen are expected to wear.

[lougee1043]

I totally agree with you Greg. We have found so many times that many just do not know how they should dress. This past week on the Oosterdam we saw everything from sparkly dresses to several steps below casual. That is why I have suggested that they just do away with it for the 7 day cruises. There are just so few that are actually dressed correctly. I enjoy it but I think it is just not understood. I think that on the longer cruises more are experienced cruisers especially with HAL and understand the term.

 

imo - it doesnt matter what you call it ---the hal dress code gives you the explaination of what to wear on what nite - and its published in the daily newspaper