Mardi Gras - room outlet PSA

[E@syPe@zy]

10 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Now I start to see the problem.  I am not intimately familiar with hair care appliances (being a balding male), but I suspect that both items that did not work on the ship, but worked on land, are PTC ceramic heaters.  These are semi-conductors, and most likely the wiring in the curler/straightener requires the neutral and ground to be at the same voltage, or the unit won't work (this would indicate to the unit that the wiring in the unit was broken, and a potential shock hazard).  I've found many other semi-conductor controlled devices that work fine on land, but don't work at all when on ships due to the difference in voltage between neutral and ground.  A resistance wire curler/straightener would work on the ship.

This makes perfect sense!  My old hair hot iron was not ceramic and the new one is.  My old one always worked just fine on any cruise ship.  

Thank you very much!

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, satxdiver said:

AC current flows only in the one side (hopefully) remembering that it flows one way and then the other way 60 times a second.

Nope.  Current will flow in both the black wire and the white wire at all times.  Current needs a complete circuit to flow, so it will flow from the breaker box in your house, through the black wire to whatever you have plugged in, and from that appliance, back along the white wire to the breaker box, with the direction of the current switching 60 times a second.  If no current ever flowed in the white wire, there would be no complete circuit, and no flow of current at all.  Simple to test, take a circuit test lamp, and plug just one leg into the outlet, the light will not go on.  When you plug both legs into the outlet, the light goes on, showing that current is flowing.

 

9 hours ago, satxdiver said:

The rounded hole (bare wire) is connected to the larger slot (white wire) at the service panel and neither should be carrying any current in normal operation.

Again, nope.  As noted, the white wire must carry current, or none will flow to the hair dryer.  The ground wire should not normally carry current, and the white and ground wires are connected together at the service panel, but that is to make sure the white wire is at the same voltage as ground.  Since the ground wire is attached to the case of the hair dryer, and neither the black or white wires are connected to this case, there is no complete circuit, and therefore no current flow.  If the black wire fails and touches the case of the dryer, then current will flow in the ground wire, and not through you to ground.

 

9 hours ago, satxdiver said:

In some instances a GFCI circuit is required that will sense current flowing in either of the ground wires and shut off the current to the outlet. 

Again, nope.  A GFCI breaker measures the current flowing in the black wire and the white wire, and senses whether they are equal (normal condition), or whether they are not equal, meaning current must be flowing from one wire or the other to  some other place (either the ground wire, or through you), and shuts off the power.

 

9 hours ago, satxdiver said:

The electronics now installed in most if not all appliances today expect this to be and will not like ship's power where 60  VAC is presented on both sides to make 120 VAC.  Hence they will not work on the ship. 

You are somewhat right here, but not completely.  There is 120v between the two wires (black and white), whether or not it is on land or on a ship.  However, what the electronics is looking for is that the white wire and the ground wire are at the same voltage, which they are in land wiring, and 120v between the black and either white or ground.  On ship's wiring, there will be 120v between black and white (so, okay with the electronics), but only 60v between black and ground (still okay with the electronics).  The problem is that there will be 60v between the white and ground, and this difference in voltage shuts the unit down.  I first saw this problem about 30 years ago, when we tried to install land style UPS backup power sources for our computers on ships. We went cheap and bought consumer (home or office) type units, and they would immediately go to battery power when turned on, because the voltage difference between white and ground told the electronics that power had failed and the batteries were needed.

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, danodiego said:

Chengkp75,

I don’t use power strips, but I have used small 3 way adapters to plug in two cell phone chargers. I have always assumed it wasn’t dangerous because of the low draw, but am I mistaken? 

Use of these "outlet splitters" is no different on ships than it is on land.  Just like an extension cord with multiple outlets on the end, the danger is if you connect too much load to the several outlets.  This is fine for charging electronics, and even for things like CPAP machines.

[ronrythm]

Amazon’s Woot brand is offering this power strip/usb adapter that specifically states it doesn’t offer surge protection. I’m tempted to order one just to see if it’s true.

https://electronics.woot.com/offers/ts-101-power-strip-with-3-outelts-3-usb-5-ft-grey?ref=w_cnt_sc_is_1_tl
enjoy

Ron

[momof3cruisers]

@chengkp75 thank you for all this info. I love learning the details behind the rules. I was just explaining this concept to my boys today when they asked why I have a specific “cruise outlet extender.” Proud to say I got the general concept right but loved reading the whole explanation! 

[13cheermom]

17 hours ago, ronrythm said:

Amazon’s Woot brand is offering this power strip/usb adapter that specifically states it doesn’t offer surge protection. I’m tempted to order one just to see if it’s true.

https://electronics.woot.com/offers/ts-101-power-strip-with-3-outelts-3-usb-5-ft-grey?ref=w_cnt_sc_is_1_tl
enjoy

Ron

Yes this is what I have always taken, especially with the sideways plug-in.  I have heard on Mardi Gras that the access to the plug is close to the desktop, so difficult to plug in normal straight plugged items.  But mine also doesn't have any surge protection, it is just an extension plug for different items.  However it is only plugged in while being used, no safety hazard. I just hope my existing curling brush will work on Mardi Gras, haven't had any issues on it with any other ship. 

[TerReuv]

On 10/10/2021 at 4:24 PM, chengkp75 said:

Now I start to see the problem.  I am not intimately familiar with hair care appliances (being a balding male), but I suspect that both items that did not work on the ship, but worked on land, are PTC ceramic heaters.  These are semi-conductors, and most likely the wiring in the curler/straightener requires the neutral and ground to be at the same voltage, or the unit won't work (this would indicate to the unit that the wiring in the unit was broken, and a potential shock hazard).  I've found many other semi-conductor controlled devices that work fine on land, but don't work at all when on ships due to the difference in voltage between neutral and ground.  A resistance wire curler/straightener would work on the ship.

 

So, the issue is the ceramic?  I had a ceramic curling iron that I have brought before (just died so it's now trash) and had no issues.  Now, I am wondering if I got lucky and if I should not take a ceramic one next time??

 

First world problems.  LOL

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, TerReuv said:

 

So, the issue is the ceramic?  I had a ceramic curling iron that I have brought before (just died so it's now trash) and had no issues.  Now, I am wondering if I got lucky and if I should not take a ceramic one next time??

 

First world problems.  LOL

Some ceramic heaters, particularly older ones, use a ceramic surface, actually a ceramic tube, into which is placed a resistance wire heating element.  Yes, the ceramic is actually a semi-conductor heating element, and which has a designed "curie point" or temperature at which a dramatic resistance change happens, and when the resistance goes up, the heating goes down, so the ceramic self-regulates.  From what I am hearing, and deducing, I would not recommend taking a ceramic hair appliance.

[weloverunning]

I’m sorry to drag this subject out but I have one final question for you “electrical” people. If I buy a rechargeable flat iron, do you think it’s possible the outlet can handle charging a lithium battery versus a plug in flat iron? 

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, weloverunning said:

I’m sorry to drag this subject out but I have one final question for you “electrical” people. If I buy a rechargeable flat iron, do you think it’s possible the outlet can handle charging a lithium battery versus a plug in flat iron? 

That would depend on what current the charger draws, but I would suspect that it would be less than the actual flat iron.