Reports from Carnival Panorama

[monykalyn]

4 hours ago, icft said:

Over 30 of the posts have been about maritime law. Has this thread been hijacked or what? 💩

Well I am a nerd and kinda find the maritime law fascinating lol

[MrMarc]

4 hours ago, icft said:

Over 30 of the posts have been about maritime law. Has this thread been hijacked or what? 💩

Actually it is absolutely related to what might happen if cruise ships cannot disembark at any port.  This law could determine if cruises will be canceled if they can't be guaranteed at least one port.  The cruise lines cannot afford to pay $798 a passenger, which it might cost them depending on how this law is applied.

 

But if that is too off topic still, If this cruise sailed after the letter was sent out, I think giving them the $50 was a huge pr mistake.  It is most likely to not be considered enough by the people  it was given to, and now other cruises will be upset if they don't get it also.  The cruise lines cannot afford to keep giving away money they don't actually owe.  However, obviously I don't have access to the numbers, it is possible that the $50 amount actually gets people to spend more when using it (gambling, restaurants, getting drunker so drinking more, etc.). 

[Guest BasicSailor]

I think there will be a whole lot of angry people before this is all said and done. I feel for anyone involved good or bad, wrong or right. It's a mess!

[MrMarc]

12 minutes ago, BasicSailor said:

I think there will be a whole lot of angry people before this is all said and done. I feel for anyone involved good or bad, wrong or right. It's a mess!

I really feel sorry for the customer service people and the PCPs.  I cannot imagine what they are hearing.

[smellywax]

We were just told we are allowed to go ashore tomorrow at 6:30 am in Cabo San Lucas. I wish we could stay later than 2 pm since we missed the previous ports but I’m sure the propulsion issue is the reason we leave at that time. Anyway, we are happy to go ashore.

[cocomango]

Yay! Glad to hear that!

 

Propulsion issue? 

[smellywax]

There has been lots of people on this board that have said there is a propulsion issue which is why 2 weeks before your sailing, Carnival sends out a letter stating there is a change in order of ports and you go to Puerto Vallarta Monday, Mazatlan Tuesday and Cabo Wednesday and that time is changed to 6:30 am -3 pm

1 hour ago, cocomango said:

Yay! Glad to hear that!

 

Propulsion issue? 

 

[Calnev1]

44 minutes ago, smellywax said:

We were just told we are allowed to go ashore tomorrow at 6:30 am in Cabo San Lucas. I wish we could stay later than 2 pm since we missed the previous ports but I’m sure the propulsion issue is the reason we leave at that time. Anyway, we are happy to go ashore.

Its interesting that you are disembarking at Cabo Wednesday instead of waiting around Cabo until Thursday, which I believe was the planned day for Panorama's port visit to Cabo.  Now Carnival will have to juggle all the Cabo shore excursions.  Just another nightmare for the staff aboard ship.  And propulsion can't be the real reason for your 2 PM departure on Wednesday, as you will now have a whole additional sea day to get back to Long Beach.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Calnev1

[KmomChicago]

9 hours ago, smellywax said:

People at breakfast are using a lot of foul language…I hope this doesn’t turn into a nightmare due to passengers. We were all told this could happen and that there would be no compensation but all I am hearing are complaints and angry cussing passengers saying what Carnival “better do.” …I just wish people would be more understanding and civil and make the most out of the situation. I hope the rest of our cruise isn’t filled with loud talking people moaning and complaining.

See this is why the crew likes Baltimore. I’m sure our passengers would have been kind and patient if 100% of our crappy Bahamas ports had been canceled. Heck barely anyone bothered to get off the ship anyway! 
 

Sorry couldn’t resist a tongue-in-cheek comment to lighten the mood. Honestly your situation sucks but as you note, getting all nasty about something everyone understood was a possible risk, and can’t be controlled, makes no sense and adds unnecessary an non-productive negativity.

[Markmom18]

On 12/27/2021 at 4:39 PM, BlerkOne said:

Kind of interesting, since I thought Carnival was freezing adding employees to ships, but even if not, new crew would also have to quarantine, no?

 Our son spoke with a fellow crew member, who was quarantined at a hotel, no empty crew quarantine cabins available.This was over Christmas Weekend. 
 

He did not know how many cabins total are set aside for crew. So, perhaps it’s not as bad as it sounds.  🤷🏻‍♀️
 

Yes, new crew members are required to quarantine. He did his onboard. But, that was before Omicron. 
 

🛳🛳

Bobbi 
 

 

 

 

[modes]

43 minutes ago, smellywax said:

There has been lots of people on this board that have said there is a propulsion issue which is why 2 weeks before your sailing, Carnival sends out a letter stating there is a change in order of ports and you go to Puerto Vallarta Monday, Mazatlan Tuesday and Cabo Wednesday and that time is changed to 6:30 am -3 pm

 

There is NO propulsion issue look the the map on your tv the ship can go 21.5 knots which is the normal speed for a ship. Carnival is giving that  BS excuse for months now.

[Wennfred]

This is 6 months from the start of cruising and crew members are going home as their 6 month contract are up, as of March their contracts will be extended to 8 months or longer to also prevent the spread of Covid.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Wennfred

[Wennfred]

18 minutes ago, modes said:

There is NO propulsion issue look the the map on your tv the ship can go 21.5 knots which is the normal speed for a ship. Carnival is giving that  BS excuse for months now.

I agree also, 3 trips on Panorama and I’ve seen as high as 22.8 knots so they seem to be doing just fine. No issues with Masks everyone is happy and happy to comply with these rules, Panorama as done an amazing job in enforcing these rules. This 3rd trip when I was on I wore my N95 mask and my black cloth mask over it.  No issues as of today.

 

Fred

[Wennfred]

21.9kn and that’s against the wind.

 

 

[Roscoe13]

28 minutes ago, modes said:

There is NO propulsion issue look the the map on your tv the ship can go 21.5 knots which is the normal speed for a ship. Carnival is giving that  BS excuse for months now.

Why is the Horizon, also a Vista class ship, in drydock right now?

[pogoism9]

21 minutes ago, Roscoe13 said:

Why is the Horizon, also a Vista class ship, in drydock right now?

 

I mean, at that rate, why did they have to get a floating dry dock for Vista itself a few years back?

 

Vista class has some bum wheels. 3 ships, 3 sets of repairs to the azipods...

[clech]

1 hour ago, Calnev1 said:

Its interesting that you are disembarking at Cabo Wednesday instead of waiting around Cabo until Thursday, which I believe was the planned day for Panorama's port visit to Cabo.  Now Carnival will have to juggle all the Cabo shore excursions.  Just another nightmare for the staff aboard ship.  And propulsion can't be the real reason for your 2 PM departure on Wednesday, as you will now have a whole additional sea day to get back to Long Beach.

It’s a special Friday to Friday cruise, probably because of the holidays on Saturday.   They’ve been having propulsion problems and reversing itineraries for months.

[urbanhawk]

I'm not 100% sure, but I thought the stop in Cabo was for 2 days. I know the next sailing on NYE is for 8 days, and does stop in Cabo for 2 days. Happy cruising!

[Calnev1]

46 minutes ago, clech said:

It’s a special Friday to Friday cruise, probably because of the holidays on Saturday.   They’ve been having propulsion problems and reversing itineraries for months.

Ah, OK.  That makes sense that the cruise will be ending on Friday, not Saturday as with the earlier seven day Panorama cruises.  I guess probably the December 18 cruise was only six days long.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Calnev1

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, Roscoe13 said:

Why is the Horizon, also a Vista class ship, in drydock right now?

 

6 hours ago, pogoism9 said:

 

I mean, at that rate, why did they have to get a floating dry dock for Vista itself a few years back?

 

Vista class has some bum wheels. 3 ships, 3 sets of repairs to the azipods...

While Carnival has admitted that there is a problem with propulsion on the Panorama, it may have been fixed if these are the XO azipods as I presume they are.  Certain bearing problems, the most problematic being the thrust bearing, can be repaired while still in the water.

 

Vista had her unexpected drydocking about 3 years into service.  The same is true for Horizon now.  I suspect that Carnival is running into the same issues with the azipods that RCI has had on their Oasis class ships, where the azipods start showing indications of wear/failure long before the scheduled 5 year drydocking, and so RCI has moved to doing preventative dockings for the Oasis class ships around the 3 year mark to just repair azipods, and then do the statutory drydocking at the 5 year mark.  Whether RCI's and Carnival's problems are the same, or caused by different parts of the azipods, it appears that there is a material deficiency in the design, and now with building historical operations data points, they can determine what needs to be redesigned or what material needs to be replaced by a better one.  People think that azipods are like cars, and that cars have been designed to be nearly failure proof, but in reality, cars have been around, gathering data from millions of cars over decades as to what works and what doesn't.  Azipods, of the size used on cruise ships, have been in use for a couple of decades, but there are still less than 500 in service worldwide.  They are still young technology for the maritime, and still in the design stage.  I further suspect that the covid shutdown has had some effect on the reliability of the azipods, as their seals may have suffered from prolonged sitting in one position.

[cyclist_guy1]

10 hours ago, KmomChicago said:

See this is why the crew likes Baltimore. I’m sure our passengers would have been kind and patient if 100% of our crappy Bahamas ports had been canceled. Heck barely anyone bothered to get off the ship anyway! 
 

Sorry couldn’t resist a tongue-in-cheek comment to lighten the mood. Honestly your situation sucks but as you note, getting all nasty about something everyone understood was a possible risk, and can’t be controlled, makes no sense and adds unnecessary an non-productive negativity.

hi kmom. from your most recent cruises what did you do to stay healthy? was it mostly being good about wearing your mask (everywhere), washing hands a lot, hand sanitizing or did you go even beyond that? i ask because we're leaving sunday on the legend. thanks

Edited December 29, 2021 by cyclist_guy1

[KmomChicago]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

 

While Carnival has admitted that there is a problem with propulsion on the Panorama, it may have been fixed if these are the XO azipods as I presume they are.  Certain bearing problems, the most problematic being the thrust bearing, can be repaired while still in the water.

 

Vista had her unexpected drydocking about 3 years into service.  The same is true for Horizon now.  I suspect that Carnival is running into the same issues with the azipods that RCI has had on their Oasis class ships, where the azipods start showing indications of wear/failure long before the scheduled 5 year drydocking, and so RCI has moved to doing preventative dockings for the Oasis class ships around the 3 year mark to just repair azipods, and then do the statutory drydocking at the 5 year mark.  Whether RCI's and Carnival's problems are the same, or caused by different parts of the azipods, it appears that there is a material deficiency in the design, and now with building historical operations data points, they can determine what needs to be redesigned or what material needs to be replaced by a better one.  People think that azipods are like cars, and that cars have been designed to be nearly failure proof, but in reality, cars have been around, gathering data from millions of cars over decades as to what works and what doesn't.  Azipods, of the size used on cruise ships, have been in use for a couple of decades, but there are still less than 500 in service worldwide.  They are still young technology for the maritime, and still in the design stage.  I further suspect that the covid shutdown has had some effect on the reliability of the azipods, as their seals may have suffered from prolonged sitting in one position.

To your well-explained points about the relatively new technology, is it wildly incorrect to simply conclude/suggest this technology has different maintenance requirements as well as this apparent shorter than hoped useful life for certain components? Is that an acceptable outcome of the technology or a failure?
 

I’m only asking because “problems” and “failure” might not even be the right words. New technologies are typically not composed of single factors but rather entirely new systems with many new components, not all of which can be fully tested in advance. Does the entire system “fail” based on a single component that has a certain useful life that doesn’t meet the initial estimate? 
 

As you note, improved materials for future versions of certain parts might extend their service hours. Or perhaps the higher frequency of dry dock is acceptable as the trade off for other efficiency in this system.

 

Either way thank you for explaining how the engineering learning curve itself is a necessary and even somewhat expected piece of the process. No matter how much prior knowledge goes into a design, actual use will provide more, and better, data to inform continuous improvement.

[cyclist_guy1]

10 hours ago, smellywax said:

There has been lots of people on this board that have said there is a propulsion issue which is why 2 weeks before your sailing, Carnival sends out a letter stating there is a change in order of ports and you go to Puerto Vallarta Monday, Mazatlan Tuesday and Cabo Wednesday and that time is changed to 6:30 am -3 pm

 

hi smelly 😁. from your most recent cruise(s) what did you do to stay healthy? was it mostly being good about wearing your mask (everywhere), washing hands a lot, hand sanitizing or did you go even beyond that? i ask because we're leaving sunday on the legend. thanks

[KmomChicago]

4 minutes ago, cyclist_guy1 said:

hi kmom. from your most recent cruises what did you do to stay healthy? was it mostly being god about wearing your mask (everywhere), washing hands a lot, hand sanitizing or did you go even beyond that? i ask because we're leaving sunday on the legend. thanks

Really just those basics. It’s impossible to fully socially distance at all times, but you can do better than we did if you really try. I was more focused on not sneezing on anyone than avoiding them. The masks were gently but firmly enforced.  I’m assuming the 3 shots are our defense and that the risks are part of a calculated gamble at this point. 

[chengkp75]

29 minutes ago, KmomChicago said:

To your well-explained points about the relatively new technology, is it wildly incorrect to simply conclude/suggest this technology has different maintenance requirements as well as this apparent shorter than hoped useful life for certain components? Is that an acceptable outcome of the technology or a failure?
 

The azipods are a completely different technology than the older "shafted propeller" propulsion systems.  With shafted propellers, the electric motor will be 8' x 12' x 8' to allow for cooling air to lengthen the life expectancy of the motor.  The bearings that support the shaft and propeller, and that transfers the thrust (the power to move the ship) from the propeller to the ship's hull have no size constraints (they are in large rooms), and available for easy maintenance inside the ship.  In an azipod, the entire structure is about 8-10' in diameter, with space inside for a person to move around (tightly), so the motor is compressed in size for the same power as the older type motor, leading to more maintenance concerns, and some of the bearings cannot be accessed from inside the pod, and those that are cannot be maintained while at sea.

 

In most cases, these "propulsion problems" with azipods are not actual failures, but operational constraints decided on to preserve the condition of the machinery.  For instance, the lubricating oil for the bearings will have monitoring for metallic particles in the oil, which are a sign that the bearings are wearing.  If the particle count rises too quickly, or too soon in the azipods life, then it indicates that bearing failure could be imminent.  The engineers will decide to either limit the power on the azipod, or shut it down completely, in order to maintain the use of the pod in an emergency situation.  So, the pod may not have failed, but it has a "problem".

 

And, yes, the entire pod will fail if the thrust bearing fails.  This was the problem with azipods on cruise ships at the beginning (leading to the class action suit against Rolls Royce for failures of their Mermaid pod by Carnival Corp), and many of the other early failures.  This led to the development of an entirely new model of azipod by ABB to allow replacement of the thrust bearings from inside the pod (eliminating the drydock), and to new design and materials in the bearing itself.  The problem comes from "upscaling" the azipods.  Those with the most maintenance history are much smaller units on things like icebreakers, ferries, and offshore supply boats.  With the increase in power demanded by the cruise ships, while model testing and theoretical material analysis delivered the original azipod design, there was no way to determine exactly how the system would fare over the long term.  While they could build an azipod and run it on a test facility, no company could afford to do this for 5 years without having any customers actually buying the product, so some design flaws are to be expected.