Testing positive with insurance before cruise

[BirdTravels]

7 hours ago, Cruise Gopher said:

If you cancel due to Covid Positive in advance of the cruise and you get reimbursed from insurance how does NCL know that they don't need to issue you a FCC?  Is it just an honor system thing that you won't use that FCC?

If you cancel your cruise and do not disclose the reason for cancellation, you will not get the FCC. At that point, you're rolling the dice hoping that the insurance company will accept your claim. NCL does not provide you the insurance. NCL buys a commercial policy on your behalf. That insurance company will look for every opportunity to deny your claim (as any insurance company does). 

[BklynBorn47]

8 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

If you cancel your cruise and do not disclose the reason for cancellation, you will not get the FCC. At that point, you're rolling the dice hoping that the insurance company will accept your claim. NCL does not provide you the insurance. NCL buys a commercial policy on your behalf. That insurance company will look for every opportunity to deny your claim (as any insurance company does). 

 

Sadly, I've come to understand that the biggest department in any insurance company (travel, health etc) is the Dept of "We Don't Cover That"  

[Babr]

9 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

If you cancel your cruise and do not disclose the reason for cancellation, you will not get the FCC. At that point, you're rolling the dice hoping that the insurance company will accept your claim. NCL does not provide you the insurance. NCL buys a commercial policy on your behalf. That insurance company will look for every opportunity to deny your claim (as any insurance company does). 

To cancel under the CFAR feature, one must first file a claim with the insurer. It will be denied since the claim was not for a covered reason. Then you present the denied claim to NCL for FCC since, as you have pointed, the insurer is a separate entity and does not have anything to do with FCC. That is a benefit provided by the cruise line.

 

Anyone should read the policy to find the list of covered reasons. Since COVID is treated as any other illness, it should be straightforward as long as you present the required documentation as described in the policy. Just don’t cancel before you have a doctor’s orders. It may be a problem if you do it after the fact. The point is that you were not able to travel at the time of cancellation.

[JIMESOPUS]

I'm waiting to hear back from NCL about my pre cruise positive PCR. Took forever to contact NCL to cancel my cruise, NCL rep then directed me to this form. Since it was a third party test, I had all the info they needed, it's been 11 days and the only thing that showed up was my " cruise first cert. "

https://www.ncl.com/refund-and-cancellation-policy-covid-19

https://www.ncl.com/case-submission

[kylenyc]

On 1/7/2022 at 3:06 PM, Cruise Gopher said:

If you cancel due to Covid Positive in advance of the cruise and you get reimbursed from insurance how does NCL know that they don't need to issue you a FCC?  Is it just an honor system thing that you won't use that FCC?

I believe you have it backwards. If you cancel the cruise or are prevented from taking the cruise for a reason that's covered by NCL's cancellation and refund policy, you are reimbursed by NCL for the cruise fare (in whole or in part, as a refund or FCC depending on the circumstances). If you also submit a claim for reimbursement with the travel insurance company for the same loss (whether you purchased the policy through NCL or directly), the insurance company will undoubtedly ask you for information about all reimbursement you are entitled to from NCL and from all other insurance policies including additional travel insurance you may have purchased, travel insurance provided by your credit card company, etc. If you fail to disclose all sources of reimbursement to the travel insurance company, this is fraud and is a crime in many states that "may be subject to civil fines and criminal penalties", "may be prosecuted under state law", etc. and "voids the coverage" and any reimbursement you'd otherwise be entitled to. This is spelled out in policy documents.

 

How would NCL know? More like the insurance company will know whether you're entitled to reimbursement from NCL and simply deduct that amount from your coverage. Attempting to "conceal or misrepresent any material fact or circumstance" while filing the claim would be asking for trouble.

Edited January 9, 2022 by kylenyc

[Cruise Gopher]

6 hours ago, kylenyc said:

I believe you have it backwards. If you cancel the cruise or are prevented from taking the cruise for a reason that's covered by NCL's cancellation and refund policy, you are reimbursed by NCL for the cruise fare (in whole or in part, as a refund or FCC depending on the circumstances). If you also submit a claim for reimbursement with the travel insurance company for the same loss (whether you purchased the policy through NCL or directly), the insurance company will undoubtedly ask you for information about all reimbursement you are entitled to from NCL and from all other insurance policies including additional travel insurance you may have purchased, travel insurance provided by your credit card company, etc. If you fail to disclose all sources of reimbursement to the travel insurance company, this is fraud and is a crime in many states that "may be subject to civil fines and criminal penalties", "may be prosecuted under state law", etc. and "voids the coverage" and any reimbursement you'd otherwise be entitled to. This is spelled out in policy documents.

 

How would NCL know? More like the insurance company will know whether you're entitled to reimbursement from NCL and simply deduct that amount from your coverage. Attempting to "conceal or misrepresent any material fact or circumstance" while filing the claim would be asking for trouble.

NCL does not provide a Cash refund. They only will give FCC which must be used by end of 2022.
 

If someone purchased an insurance policy (from a 3rd party not NCL’s insurance offering), that person would be better off submitting the claim to their insurance and getting reimbursed CASH and then just no showing for their cruise for example. Or canceling without using the Peace or Mind policy and thereby forfeiting 100% of all monies paid to NCL. That way NCL is whole and the traveler is made whole again from the insurance reimbursement. Nothing more nothing less, no fraud. 

[Babr]

The confusion seems to lie in the fact that the cash refund is an option only if someone tests positive at the pier. Otherwise, FCC is given if you test positive within 14 days of travel.

 

Insurance  for cancellation would be a factor prior to the cruise; but once someone tests positive at the pier, insurance would be for quarantine expenses which would be supplemented by NCL if one meets certain requirements (prior negative test). NCL would provide refund or FCC for testing positive at embarkation.

 

Of course, travel insurance covers other risks not related to COVID, but this is how I understand its role in relation to NCL’s refund and cancellation policies.

 

One note: You still have to cancel and refuse the FCC offered by NCL. It is part of the claims process. You’ll be asked about the cancellation policy or other relief available to you.

 

It might be a good idea to talk to your insurance company before you cancel anything so that you understand what is required and that you do it in the proper order.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Babr

[kylenyc]

4 hours ago, Babr said:

It might be a good idea to talk to your insurance company before you cancel anything so that you understand what is required and that you do it in the proper order.

^This. I'd be pretty surprised if a travel insurance company doesn't request information on and consider all sources of reimbursement that a guest is entitled to in a claim including full or prorated refunds, FCC, other insuring parties like credit cards, duplicate coverage, etc.  I'd expect all benefits from all sources for a claim would be considered.

I'm curious how all parties work this sort of thing out. Any insurance experts out there?

Edited January 9, 2022 by kylenyc

[Babr]

3 minutes ago, kylenyc said:

^This. I'm no insurance expert but I'd be pretty surprised if a travel insurance company doesn't request information on and consider all sources of reimbursement that a guest is entitled into a claim including full or prorated refunds, FCC, other insuring parties like credit cards, duplicate coverage, etc.  I'd expect all benefits from all sources for a give claim would be considered. I'd be curious to know how all parties work this sort of thing out. Any insurance experts out there?

Not an expert, but I’ve done a lot of reading trying to figure it out for myself. Apparently, the claims process does require that you reveal and document any other sources of compensation and that you have not availed yourself of any. 
 

If I were facing a decision to cancel, I’d consult all guidelines for filing a claim and seek clarification for any step I didn’t understand. That is where working with a good broker is to your advantage because he can walk you through the process and point out any pitfalls.

 

Insurance is complex from start to finish. Most people don’t pay attention to it until they need it and then are dismayed if their claim is denied because they did not understand what was covered or how to get reimbursed.

[ChutChut]

Read your insurance policy carefully. If you file an insurance claim, there will be a part on the claim form where it requires you to list any other methods of reimbursement. You must list that you will receive/are entitled to receive/have received a refund/FCC from the cruise line. You have to sign the claim form attesting to its truthfulness. You may be entitled to other reimbursements under your policy (e.g. hotel, food, etc.). But if you'll be receiving a refund/FCC with NCL, you can't double dip. If you lie on the claim form, the insurance company can come after you for fraud, etc.

[ChutChut]

32 minutes ago, kylenyc said:

^This. I'd be pretty surprised if a travel insurance company doesn't request information on and consider all sources of reimbursement that a guest is entitled to in a claim including full or prorated refunds, FCC, other insuring parties like credit cards, duplicate coverage, etc.  I'd expect all benefits from all sources for a claim would be considered.

I'm curious how all parties work this sort of thing out. Any insurance experts out there?

The insurance company absolutely will. When I filed a claim due to a cancelled cruise (became rather ill the day of embarkation - not Covid), there was a section on the form asking me for other methods of reimbursement.

Edited January 9, 2022 by ChutChut
spelling

[ChutChut]

4 hours ago, Babr said:

The confusion seems to lie in the fact that the cash refund is an option only if someone tests positive at the pier. Otherwise, FCC is given if you test positive within 14 days of travel.

 

Insurance  for cancellation would be a factor prior to the cruise; but once someone tests positive at the pier, insurance would be for quarantine expenses which would be supplemented by NCL if one meets certain requirements (prior negative test). NCL would provide refund or FCC for testing positive at embarkation.

 

Of course, travel insurance covers other risks not related to COVID, but this is how I understand its role in relation to NCL’s refund and cancellation policies.

 

One note: You still have to cancel and refuse the FCC offered by NCL. It is part of the claims process. You’ll be asked about the cancellation policy or other relief available to you.

 

It might be a good idea to talk to your insurance company before you cancel anything so that you understand what is required and that you do it in the proper order.

I'm not sure the insurance will accept the fact you refused to be reimbursed by NCL in the form of a refund or FCC. I suspect the insurance company will direct you to the primary source of reimbursement (NCL) and won't pay out if you've refused it.

[kylenyc]

27 minutes ago, Babr said:

Not an expert, but I’ve done a lot of reading trying to figure it out for myself. Apparently, the claims process does require that you reveal and document any other sources of compensation and that you have not availed yourself of any. 
 

If I were facing a decision to cancel, I’d consult all guidelines for filing a claim and seek clarification for any step I didn’t understand. That is where working with a good broker is to your advantage because he can walk you through the process and point out any pitfalls.

 

Insurance is complex from start to finish. Most people don’t pay attention to it until they need it and then are dismayed if their claim is denied because they did not understand what was covered or how to get reimbursed.

Well put. Agree. Work with a trusted broker or directly with a reputable insurer.

 

The confusion isn't help by the fact that NCL's Booksafe page IMO is misleading. They state in bold (bold emphasis theirs, red emphasis mine) "You're covered for trip cancellation, trip interruption and trip delay." They don't explicitly state on this page that the Essentials Plan does not include this. Yet they provide a link to the Essentials plan on this same page implying that it does. There is no mention on the page that the Essentials plan is not a "Booksafe" plan and doesn't cover cancellation, interruption, or delay. Only if you click and read the policy documents carefully do you learn this.

 

To all, this Essentials plan is the one they offer guests for $35 after final payment and on the Vacation Summary page if you previously declined to purchase the Booksafe Standard and Platinum plans.

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by kylenyc

[Babr]

1 minute ago, ChutChut said:

I'm not sure the insurance will accept the fact you refused to be reimbursed by NCL in the form of a refund or FCC. I suspect the insurance company will direct you to the primary source of reimbursement (NCL) and won't pay out if you've refused it.

Not sure either, but I have read instances of people being advised by the insurance company to reject  airline vouchers for cancelled flights in order to file a claim for reimbursement. I think they just want to be sure you are not double dipping. 
 

If NCL offered a cash refund there would be no question that you’d have to take that over insurance. It is the FCC that makes the difference.

[BirdTravels]

On 1/8/2022 at 8:32 AM, Babr said:

To cancel under the CFAR feature, one must first file a claim with the insurer. It will be denied since the claim was not for a covered reason. Then you present the denied claim to NCL for FCC since, as you have pointed, the insurer is a separate entity and does not have anything to do with FCC. That is a benefit provided by the cruise line.

 

Anyone should read the policy to find the list of covered reasons. Since COVID is treated as any other illness, it should be straightforward as long as you present the required documentation as described in the policy. Just don’t cancel before you have a doctor’s orders. It may be a problem if you do it after the fact. The point is that you were not able to travel at the time of cancellation.

So,,,, you rolled the dice and lost. The insurer denied the claim. NCL, not the insurer, will give you a restricted FCC for 75% of your loss. 
 

Compared to getting a 100% unrestricted FCC if you just called and cancelled. 
 

Roll the dice and lose 25% of your cruise fare and get a restricted FCC. 

[Babr]

18 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

So,,,, you rolled the dice and lost. The insurer denied the claim. NCL, not the insurer, will give you a restricted FCC for 75% of your loss. 
 

Compared to getting a 100% unrestricted FCC if you just called and cancelled. 
 

Roll the dice and lose 25% of your cruise fare and get a restricted FCC. 

I’m not sure I know what you are talking about. My response was in relation to your statement about not disclosing the reason for cancellation. That is CFAR, isn’t it? See post #26. Don’t know how CFAR fits into this discussion, but that is how it works if that is what you choose to do.

 

Filing for a covered reason such as testing positive for COVID is not a roll of the dice if you confirm the process and required documentation with the insurer before filing a claim. The difference is that you get cash from insurance but FCC from the cruise line. Some would rather have cash, and why not since insurance gives you that option.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Babr