A quick review on my first time in the Haven, NCL Joy March 5th 2022

[aubreyc1988]

1 minute ago, mafig said:

 

Guess we'll be squeezing in then.😒

At first, I squeezed in. But after I realized that the experience at the Haven Bar was really not up to my standards, I just hung out at the Mojito Bar.

[Acruzaholic]

13 hours ago, Sthrngary said:

My first quest is to find 1942; second to call you. Deal?

YES its a deal!

[pcakes122]

On 3/15/2022 at 11:07 AM, aubreyc1988 said:

In my opinion, everyone pays more to be in the Haven from other cabins, so NCL needs to hire appropriate number of staff so the butlers are not overworked and can provide adequate service.  It might not be the butlers fault, could be a staffing issue, but it's not an excuse, NCL needs to make sure the Haven gets amazing service, esp since the Haven is usually 3-4x more than a balcony. 

I 100000% agree with this! It has always bothered me when I see posts from customers who are paying for a PREMIUM service say that they didn't want to FULLY utilize the butler service due to "overworked & super busy" butlers and room stewards.  In my opinion, managing the workload in order to deliver the product they have marketed is ON NCL.  By stepping back and expecting LESS, the customer is just enabling NCL's increased profits.  

 

And if your butler doesn't seem to have the time to fully provide all services you would like, the person to share your concerns with is the Concierge or Hotel Director (not the poor butler who is not involved in decisions about staffing-levels.)

 

I work for a large corporation and from a profitability standpoint we would LOVE not to have to hire more people or pay overtime expenses to meet customer demands.  Conditioning customers to "settle for less" is a WIN for us.  But in reality, they should be putting pressure on us to deliver what we promise (and what they pay for!)

 

But again, these concerns need to be voiced to those in management who have decision-making capability (or who can carry the message to the level where changes can be made.)

 

"Not bothering the butler" doesn't help customers OR staff.

[Acruzaholic]

1 hour ago, CDR Benson said:

 

 

To underscore aubreyc's point, I'm going to tell a story I've told twice before on these boards, the last time, not too long ago.  If you've already read it, you can skip the next few paragraphs.

 

The Good Mrs. Benson and I have taken only one cruise so far.  In 2018, we sailed to Alaska in a Neptune suite on the Holland America ship Nieuw Amsterdam.  By the middle of the first full day underway, we had gotten used to, no matter where we went on the ship, being greeted by the crew members by name.  "Good morning. Mr. and Mrs. Benson!"

 

At no time on the ship or in any correspondence had I made mention of my military title.

 

The evening of that first day underway, we dined in the ship's signature specialty restaurant, the Pinnacle Grill.  For that, I wore my service dress uniform.  I wore it for just a few hours, from the suite to the restaurant and back.  The only especial notice of my uniform that I observed was from the Pinnacle Grill manager, who stopped by our table briefly.  He told us that he had once been a Supply Corps officer in the Navy.

 

Beginning the next morning, I was startled, then impressed, that every crew member we encountered addressed me as "Commander Benson" for the rest of the cruise.

 

Something like that really makes you feel special.  That kind of extreme attention to detail was remarkable from a ship's crew and surprising.

 

But it's just the sort of thing I expect from the staff of the Haven.

 

That's what NCL is selling us with the idea of "a resort within a resort"; that a Haven guest will receive such elevated service and attention to detail that he will feel like royalty.  Most of the perks that come with Haven residency can be purchased individually and less expensively.  Mr. Tilkin discusses this as "Haven-Lite" on his sailing-solo thread.  But NCL's pitch is that, because of its exclusivity and attention to its guests' desires, the Haven will pamper you, make you feel special.

 

Most of us who sign up for the Haven aren't to the Manor born, accustomed to that kind of indulgence.  No, folks like aubreyc and me only have so much disposable income to sink into a vacation.  And when we spend it on the Haven, it's with the intention to enjoy just a week or two of being pampered.  That's what we factor into our "bang for the buck" calculations before we lay out that precious disposable income.

 

Here's the thing:  meeting that expectation lies more in attitude than in expectation.  Addressing you by name, knowing what the uniform you wore means, remembering your favourite bar drink, leaving your preferred snacks in your suite are all products of the staff's effort to make Haven guests feel indulged.  And while certainly results are important, it's the Haven staffers' attitude toward their guests that goes a longer way in making those guests feel special.

 

The concierge who remembers your e-mail and reports on each of your requests when you first come up to his desk.  The Haven bartender who asks you what your favourite potent potables are and makes suggestions on what to order.  Things like the high tempo of embarkation day shouldn't affect that.  Say it's late afternoon after you've come aboard and your butler knocks on the door of your suite.  He introduces himself and explains, "There's so much to do on embarkation day that I just can't get to everyone I want to.  I apologise for not being able to spend more time with you right now, but please let me know what time you'd like me to come by to-morrow morning and I guarantee you my full attention.  In the meantime, do you have any immediate needs that I can have handled for you?"

 

That would take, what, two minutes tops.  No butler on embarkation day is too busy to do that.  And he's conveyed that his service to us is important to him.  He's made us feel special just by the effort.

 

Mr. Tilkin has provided his recommendations on how to improve the responsiveness of the Haven butler and concierge. I think it's sound advice.  But, it works only if the Haven staffers already possess the desire to deliver that elevated service.

 

The accounts of aubreyc and vacruizer and others hint of apathy among the Haven personnel they encountered.  Concierges who respond with form-letter e-mails.  Bartenders who are annoyed when they're asked to prepare something beyond mixing one of the six or seven drink recipes they've memorised.  A butler who tells you, albeit nicely, to get your own damn M&M's.

 

In these cases, if the Haven guest pushes it, the staffer will deliver on what the guest wants.  But most of us, if we're the guest, won't feel very special at that point.  We wouldn't feel like we were being pampered.

 

From the descriptions of aubreyc and the others who found their personalised service wanting, those Haven staffers seemed interested in doing only so much as they had to do.  No wonder the posters found themselves left feeling, "Why did I spend all this extra money to stay in the Haven, then?"  I have to admit, I'm afraid of getting the same feeling at the end of our Haven cruise in September.

 

I'd like to think that someone from NCL tracks these threads and notes the comments and passes them up the chain.  If I were running NCL, I'd have someone doing that.  But I'm not holding my breath.

 

 

Thank you for this response-very well written and I couldn't agree more!

[CDR Benson]

9 minutes ago, Acruzaholic said:

Thank you for this response-very well written and I couldn't agree more!

 

Thank you.  I take that very kindly.

 

(Although perhaps not so well written---in one place I meant to say execution, as in "attitude is more important than execution", but typed "expectation", instead.  I didn't discover it until the edit function had lapsed.)

 

By the way, you'll be occupying the same suite on Joy, 14778, that we've booked for our September sailing.  I'll be interested in your impressions of it.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by CDR Benson

[graphicguy]

Sorry to read that the Haven Service has been less than stellar.  I’ve had good service in the Haven, and I’ve had mediocre Service.

 

Obviously, it’s dependent on the tone set by the Concierges, even for the Butlers (who report to the lead concierge).

 

The most experienced concierges are the best in handling all the service, even the Butlers.

 

-Elvina

-Adrian

-David

-Virginia

 

Can’t recall their last names, but they went above and beyond with anything, even the smallest issues, I had with Butlers.

[ryanpatricksmom]

1 hour ago, mafig said:

Ryanpatricksmom mentioned that the bar was often crowded and you had to squeeze between others to order a drink.  Don''t they have roving bartenders?

AubreyC has already answered, but I wanted to add....The single roving bartender that I saw, plus the servers in the Haven Restaurant are all getting their orders filled by the Haven Lounge bartenders while they're still waiting on the guests at the bar,  so in my experience it can take a lot longer to get your drink if you don't order it yourself.  I typically would get a drink before dinner and take it with me.

[aubreyc1988]

41 minutes ago, ryanpatricksmom said:

AubreyC has already answered, but I wanted to add....The single roving bartender that I saw, plus the servers in the Haven Restaurant are all getting their orders filled by the Haven Lounge bartenders while they're still waiting on the guests at the bar,  so in my experience it can take a lot longer to get your drink if you don't order it yourself.  I typically would get a drink before dinner and take it with me.

 

THIS. I just was surprised they had like 2 roving servers and 2 bartenders making all the drinks. It was a long wait to have a drink delivered to you! 

[wil e coyote]

Thanks everyone for the discussion and perspectives. Hearing all these viewpoints (in a positive, helpful way like on this thread) is what I like about discussion boards.

FWIW, we had our first Haven cruise on the Getaway last month (on upgrade) and every aspect of our cruise was superior to our prior NCL cruises. The Haven was 100% full even though the ship was only about 30% full. We never felt like we had to wait for drinks at the Haven bar, nor on the sundeck. Getaway doesn't have a Horizon lounge so we don't have a parallel experience to compare. The bartender was entertaining and made fantastic drinks. The food in the Haven dining room was consistently excellent as was the service. My only slight request regarding the Haven dining room was that it would have been nice if the menu had changed during the cruise - but we ate there almost every night anyway.

Our butler introduced himself the first day, and was very attentive. We were actually worried about whether we would see our butler, as we were in a Forward Balcony suite on Deck 9, so we were pretty far from the Haven itself. But Pedro was always around, accommodated our requests (even though we didn't make a lot of requests) and was right on time with breakfast when we ate in our cabin.

We also found everyone in the Haven easy to talk to. I had also been worried about that, as we are not the type of people who typically have other waiting on us. But most of the people we talked to had also been upgraded, and many were first-time Haven-ers, so maybe we all had that in common.

I totally agree with all the comments about the importance of the staff in making the experience great or meh. It felt like the staff in the Haven on our cruise was the cream of the crop, which is what I would expect.

Would I pay list price for the Haven? Probably not, except for a very special occasion. But if I did, I would certainly expect an experience just as good as the one we had last month. I'm sorry that hasn't been everyone's experience. It should be for the price.

[Shellbelle28]

@aubreyc1988 I found your slippers! 

[SliderNc]

On 3/16/2022 at 10:44 AM, aubreyc1988 said:

You are going to have an amazing time! I had an amazing time, I'm just being critical and like I said before, if the price is right, I'd sail in the Haven again for sure!  

Oh I know we are going to love it.  We can't sail any other way now, which is going to be rough on my wallet going forward.

[SliderNc]

Just a comment that I've been thinking about here.  NCL is making sure they are sailing the Haven full.  There are numerous reasons for this from a business aspect.  But do they have adequate staffing to do so?  My assumption is that while ships are sailing full with passengers, there are probably limited staff as well, including the butlers that service Haven guests maybe?  That could lead to issues with service (butler to guest ratio is higher).  I'm not giving NCL a pass on this either, because it is something well within their control and management abilities if sailing with a full Haven.

 

Additionally, if not mistaken, when Joy was re-fitted after being over in Asia, it had more Haven cabins added and has the most I think of any ship aside from the Prima/Viva which haven't sailed yet.  From pictures I've seen, it doesn't look like they've enlarged any of the areas on Joy after adding more Haven cabins.

 

We did Sandals for our honeymoon in 2011 in St. Lucia (La Toc Resort with golf course).  We did have a butler there as well.  I can say that butler was one of the best we had overall and made our 10 days there an incredible experience.  The rest of the resort was interesting and did not really blow us away (we take a lot of all-inclusive vacations) but it was the butler who made our honeymoon one of our best vacations.

[ryanpatricksmom]

24 minutes ago, SliderNc said:

Just a comment that I've been thinking about here.  NCL is making sure they are sailing the Haven full.  There are numerous reasons for this from a business aspect.  But do they have adequate staffing to do so?  My assumption is that while ships are sailing full with passengers, there are probably limited staff as well, including the butlers that service Haven guests maybe?  That could lead to issues with service (butler to guest ratio is higher).  I'm not giving NCL a pass on this either, because it is something well within their control and management abilities if sailing with a full Haven.

 

Additionally, if not mistaken, when Joy was re-fitted after being over in Asia, it had more Haven cabins added and has the most I think of any ship aside from the Prima/Viva which haven't sailed yet.  From pictures I've seen, it doesn't look like they've enlarged any of the areas on Joy after adding more Haven cabins.

 

We did Sandals for our honeymoon in 2011 in St. Lucia (La Toc Resort with golf course).  We did have a butler there as well.  I can say that butler was one of the best we had overall and made our 10 days there an incredible experience.  The rest of the resort was interesting and did not really blow us away (we take a lot of all-inclusive vacations) but it was the butler who made our honeymoon one of our best vacations.

I'm sure that's exactly the case.  With occupancy rates low on the ships they are likely selling out the Haven at dirt cheap prices (relatively speaking of course, LOL), but haven't bothered to fully staff up. I would assume that NCL wants to grab the extra $$ that they can get, and keep their star crew members happy by providing the opportunity for maximum tips, but aren't as quite as concerned if they cut corners for half fare. Less staff means less cost to NCL; more in tips to the staff that they do have in place.  I was fully aware that I was getting a bargain and wasn't disappointed, but it wasn't the same experience that I've had in the past.  Could be the times and the circumstances, could just have been an off week, could also be that things are changing.  Who knows?

 

You're also right about the Joy being designed differently.  The Horizon Lounge is a huge space that's under-utilized, while the Haven Lounge and Bar is very busy due to more Haven cabins. I also recall there being a dining area with service near the pool on other ships, and they don't have it on the Joy.  

[Crazy planning mom]

On 3/14/2022 at 7:30 PM, aubreyc1988 said:

So I thought of you whenever I ordered a raspberry mojito or watermelon mojito at the Haven Bar. It was NOT like the ones at the Mojito Bar. It was like...a normal mojito with a raspberry essence, same with the watermelon. It wasn't near as punchy as the Mojito Bar's. And halfway through the cruise, if I asked for one, they declined, saying go to the Mojito Bar. I know this may sound extra, but this is the HAVEN, the bartenders should be able to make ANY drink that I see from ANY of the bars and they should make it BETTER, seeing as the Mojito bar has some of their drinks premixed. 

 

Sidenote: they also wouldn't give me Haven slippers to go with my robe! I specifically didn't bring my slippers because I read reviews where Haven guests get these for the room. 

 

Wonderful time but definitely not as luxurious as advertised and imagined in my head. 

 

 

Great review.  What are the best drinks to get in the mojito Bar and is that the best bar? Love your reviews.

[aubreyc1988]

25 minutes ago, Crazy planning mom said:

Great review.  What are the best drinks to get in the mojito Bar and is that the best bar? Love your reviews.

Thank you, my others were better, but I basically turned off wifi and relaxed this trip...barely even took any photos! 

 

I love the Raspberry Mojito and the 'bongalicious" 😄  

 

I meant to get the Mixx bar in between Taste and Savor, but it was always closed whenever I walked by. I have heard they have very good martinis there. 

[Sailing12Away]

If anything, this confirms the most consistent thing about NCL - the fact that they're completely inconsistent.

 

All the things you mentioned about the Haven bar are the exact opposite experience that we've ever experienced. On the Encore I would walk in and say "I want something with cucumber in it" and *poof* there it was. "I want something mint and creamy" and *poof* there was a frozen grasshopper for me. 

 

Our most recent trip was on the Pearl which didn't have a separate bar area, so I'll have to wait until September when I'm on the Joy myself to see if we just got lucky on the Epic & Encore, or it just depends on the crew itself. Ships with a full Haven bar we're willing to pay extra for since we've enjoyed our experiences there so much.

 

I also found your comment about the snooty folks a bit odd too. We've never come across anyone like that in our journeys. We're about as far from bougie as you can get (hubby wears a neon Hawaiian shirt with dragons on it as his 'fancy' shirt for Le Bistro dinners), so maybe those folks just know to steer clear of us in the first place? We're already too low brow for them and they assume we got in via charity case I suppose. But our last few trips we've exchanged numbers with several of our Haven bar companions and have never felt unwelcomed.

 

I'm not dismissing your experience, it just makes me chuckle how NCL's biggest weakness is their inability to consistently provide a quality product to all guests all the time.

[wil e coyote]

18 hours ago, SliderNc said:

Just a comment that I've been thinking about here.  NCL is making sure they are sailing the Haven full.  There are numerous reasons for this from a business aspect.  But do they have adequate staffing to do so?  My assumption is that while ships are sailing full with passengers, there are probably limited staff as well, including the butlers that service Haven guests maybe?  That could lead to issues with service (butler to guest ratio is higher).  I'm not giving NCL a pass on this either, because it is something well within their control and management abilities if sailing with a full Haven.

 

Additionally, if not mistaken, when Joy was re-fitted after being over in Asia, it had more Haven cabins added and has the most I think of any ship aside from the Prima/Viva which haven't sailed yet.  From pictures I've seen, it doesn't look like they've enlarged any of the areas on Joy after adding more Haven cabins.

 

We did Sandals for our honeymoon in 2011 in St. Lucia (La Toc Resort with golf course).  We did have a butler there as well.  I can say that butler was one of the best we had overall and made our 10 days there an incredible experience.  The rest of the resort was interesting and did not really blow us away (we take a lot of all-inclusive vacations) but it was the butler who made our honeymoon one of our best vacations.

As others have noted, there seems to be a lot of variability across NCL's fleet. But our Haven experience in February on the Getaway seemed fully staffed. There was plenty of attentive service in the dining room, at the bar, and on the sundeck. Our butler and steward were great. The Haven was 100% filled even though the rest of the ship was running at only about 30% capacity.

I did wonder about overall staffing on the Getaway. At 30% full, they probably didn't need a lot of the normal complement of cabin stewards or waiters. One of the poolside bars on Deck 15 was closed. But everything else seemed adequately staffed, from the bars around the ship to the specialty restaurants. 

I'm sure it is much harder to manage staffing on the ship when you're running at reduced capacity, so I am not surprised things are different across the fleet right now.

[NikiPinkston]

@aubreyc1988thank you for another great review!  I always enjoy your honesty, wonderful sense of humor, and tips on the best drinks. 😎  It’s great to hear your take on the Haven as we’ve always been happy with a balcony stateroom and don’t know what we would do with a butler & concierge, but that’s not to say we wouldn’t give it a try if the price was right.  We ran into a couple of those “snooty people” on the Bliss last December while on a shore excursion, where there were two couples who repeatedly mentioned loudly how glad they were that they were in the Haven in a way that made it clear that they thought they were above the rest of us.  All of us peasants were rolling our eyes & it definitely was a turn-off.  That said, 99% of the people we’ve cruised with are just lovely.  We’re old, though, and I don’t know about that bathtub LOL!  And how about when you check in and an NCL rep. leads you through the crowd with a “Haven” sign above your head?  Was that your experience?

Edited March 18, 2022 by NikiPinkston

[prbffd28]

Thanks for a great review, a lot of valuable information. I do have a non-haven related question, actually two: 1. Do you know where Vibe passes were being sold and what the cost for the week was? We will be on Joy May 29th to Bermuda, group of 10, and I am hoping to get Vibe passes. 2. Is there an onboard "chat" feature in the NCL app where our group can send messages to each other without having to purchase the internet package?

Thanks in advance!!

[lgdesign]

32 minutes ago, NikiPinkston said:

We ran into a couple of those “snooty people” on the Bliss last December while on a shore excursion, where there were two couples who repeatedly mentioned loudly how glad they were that they were in the Haven in a way that made it clear that they thought they were above the rest of us.  All of us peasants were rolling our eyes & it definitely was a turn-off. 

 

How obnoxious... definitely eye-roll worthy. 

 

In the "immortal 😉 words" of a certain New York housewife...   "Money Can't Buy You Class"

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by lgdesign

[CDR Benson]

26 minutes ago, NikiPinkston said:

 We ran into a couple of those “snooty people” on the Bliss last December while on a shore excursion, where there were two couples who repeatedly mentioned loudly how glad they were that they were in the Haven in a way that made it clear that they thought they were above the rest of us.  All of us peasants were rolling our eyes & it definitely was a turn-off.

 

This, and the other talk of snooty Haven residents, keeps reminding me of something---and bear with me here, gang, because it does make a point on topic.

 

Remember the Gilligan's Island episode "My Fair Gilligan"?  That's the one in which Gilligan saves Mrs. Howell's life, and in appreciation, the Howells adopt Gilligan.  Gilligan quickly discovers, though, that he doesn't like being a member of the upper crust; it alienates him from the fellowship of the other castaways.  So, in an effort to get the Howells to un-adopt him. Gilligan pretends to be an insufferable boor, looking down his nose at the Skipper, the Professor, and the girls.

 

Thurston Howell is outraged at Gilligan's conduct.  Privately, he lectures Gilligan on his obligations as a Howell.  Gilligan says he thought it was all about the money.

 

Almost sixty years later, and I've never forgotten the next line . . .

 

"Money means power, and with power comes a responsibility in your behaviour toward others!" replies Mr. Howell, upbraiding Gilligan for his inexcusable treatment of the other castaways.

 

The long-winded point is it tells you something about those folks you encountered, the Haven lodgers who behaved so condescendingly, when a lockjaw-accented parody of a nose-in-the-air millionaire television character demonstrates more class and human understanding than they did.

 

 

[wil e coyote]

25 minutes ago, CDR Benson said:

The long-winded point is it tells you something about those folks you encountered, the Haven lodgers who behaved so condescendingly, when a lockjaw-accented parody of a nose-in-the-air millionaire television character demonstrates more class and human understanding than they did.

@CDR Benson for the win! Wish I could give your post a like and a Ha Ha face! 😅

[NikiPinkston]

1 hour ago, CDR Benson said:

Almost sixty years later, and I've never forgotten the next line . . .

 

"Money means power, and with power comes a responsibility in your behaviour toward others!" replies Mr. Howell, upbraiding Gilligan for his inexcusable treatment of the other castaways.

 

The long-winded point is it tells you something about those folks you encountered, the Haven lodgers who behaved so condescendingly, when a lockjaw-accented parody of a nose-in-the-air millionaire television character demonstrates more class and human understanding than they did.

 

 

Love it!  Thank you, @CDR Benson.❤️

[skeeter195]

I disagree with the thought of the Haven being understaffed because of reduced sailing capacity ship wide.  If there is one constant on NCL these days it is that NCL knows exactly how many Haven rooms will be sold for any cruise as soon as bookings open for that cruise.  Why?, because if need be even the lowest of bids will be getting a Haven room.  There is no wondering how many butlers, room stewards, waitstaff, court yard and sun deck attendants will be needed.  The answer is 100% staffing is needed.  

 

We were in the Haven in October on the Breakaway and had a great time.  There were hiccups here and there but overall it was superb.  The best thing for us was the courtyard and sun deck attendants.  We never had a glass half empty.  The staff were never intrusive but were like magicians, appearing whenever we needed them.  We also had our orders within 5 minutes every time.  We always tip well, $10 or 20 the first time we see them then $1-2 per drink after that.  If that helped so be it, if not we were still happy to give it to them.  

[aubreyc1988]

21 hours ago, NikiPinkston said:

@aubreyc1988thank you for another great review!  I always enjoy your honesty, wonderful sense of humor, and tips on the best drinks. 😎  It’s great to hear your take on the Haven as we’ve always been happy with a balcony stateroom and don’t know what we would do with a butler & concierge, but that’s not to say we wouldn’t give it a try if the price was right.  We ran into a couple of those “snooty people” on the Bliss last December while on a shore excursion, where there were two couples who repeatedly mentioned loudly how glad they were that they were in the Haven in a way that made it clear that they thought they were above the rest of us.  All of us peasants were rolling our eyes & it definitely was a turn-off.  That said, 99% of the people we’ve cruised with are just lovely.  We’re old, though, and I don’t know about that bathtub LOL!  And how about when you check in and an NCL rep. leads you through the crowd with a “Haven” sign above your head?  Was that your experience?

@NikiPinkston So glad you like my reviews! Sorry this one wasn't up to par with the others! We had a great time this cruise, and it was fun to be fancy for a short time, but we will be back to balconies for a while unless I come into a fortune this summer lol

 

There was no haven sign above anyone's head, just shouting "this way" lol